Did Van Halen rip off Black Sabbath?

[UK ROCKER]

I'm reading a Doom Let Loose by Martin Popoff

I am up to the Sabbath / VH 1978 tour....

Tony Iommi - They (VH) were really very good, but the problemwas, you see, theywere going onbefore us and it was all new again to them. And they were picking up stuff from our show.

So we would do a drum solo, guitar solo and all that, and the way that Ozzy would say things, it was gradually getting put into their show. Which made it all very awkward. It did cause problems, because they were on the road with us for 8 months, it was like our show being played twice (laughs).

The same sort of chat in the middle, the same sort of antics, and they started getting bigger drum risers and more of this and that. Which was great, I mean, they were learning and they were very good players, great band.

And I got very close to Eddie , we used to sit in my room and talk a lot. And I just got annoyed one night and said, 'Eddie, are you going to play a couple numbers off our new album tomorrow?' And he says, Hey, man, you know....and of course, Come on, let's go in my room and we had a chat.And he said 'Look, you we grew up with you guys and we look to you as our influence', and what can you say? I said' That's great, but you can't do the same things as we're doing on the same show. When you get your own show fine'. But they were fine, great. 'I'm glad they did what they did'

Geezer Butler - I liked them as a band, but it was their first major tour and they ripped off everything from us (laughs) I mean it was unbelievable.
They were doing all Ozzy's peace signs. Everything Ozzy was doing, Dave Lee Roth was doing.

Eddie was doing a long solo because Tony was in those days, Tony used to do a 20-30 guitar solo, So Eddie Van Halen started doing that.
I used to use a wah wah pedal on my bass, so their bass player went out and got one.

Tony had a go at Edddie one night and he's going to beat the hell out of him (laughs) but he just told Eddie to stop copying him, basically, and Eddie sort of agreed and didn't do it. But David Lee Roth still carried on ripping Ozzy off.

[dazzlindino]

I like Black Sabbath, the early era with Ozz was fantastic.....
but come the f&^* on......they only wish Van Halen copied them

[VAiN]

If that's what they want to think, then good for them. VH was doing 'VH'-style shows long before BS. I'd be pissed too if the opening band was mopping up the floor with me on a daily basis.

[Seshmeister]

Absolutely.

[joe d'amato]

[QUOTE=UK ROCKER;1411233]And I just got annoyed one night and said, 'Eddie, are you going to play a couple numbers off our new album tomorrow?'[QUOTE]

... excellent story and that's a very funny line ...

[ELVIS]

What is wrong with learning from the people who inspired you in the first place ??

Edward was a big fan of Sabbbath when they were mostly unpopular...

[VAiN]

Oh, and when's the last time you saw DLR give a peace sign??

[Va Beach VH Fan]

They were probably turning green when they were saying that....

That was the beginning of the end of the original Sabbath....

[Golden AWe]

Oh, and when's the last time you saw DLR give a peace sign??

Plus, like Ozzy was the first one to use it...

BTW. I'm a big fan of Sabbath, but I didn't know they really had stage antics besides later on Ozzy running around like he had rabies...

[thome]

Dave wrote in his book about listening to everything you can and finding yourself/"your Musical Style" thru that.....

Guess you could say the same for the visual. Wow that gives me a idea type stuff..

No one is a isolationist even Little Richard and Chet Atkins saw something and made it better.

Or did some dude invent the tree, then the saw, then the cat, and then write, SurferGirl/...

and there you go..GoGO.....

[lesfunk]

sabbath were so baked they can't even remember 1978

[VanHalenFan5150]

Black Sabbath is amazing. Original lineup, of course.

Same goes for Van Halen. Original lineup.

But they're not better than eachother, they cancel eachother out. They're both great, but I wouldn't say Ed rips off Iommi...

[DaveTheScott]

My older brother use to get schnokered on wild turkey and blast sabbath when my parents were gone. I dig Sabbath.

Let me guess, Tony, you taught Ed everything he knows...and Dave would be nothing without Ozzy's mentorship...

Fuck Iommi. What's there to rip off?

Dave and Ozzy = not similar. Not even close.

All respect to the Oz, he's his own man, but in a comparison of front men, Dave and Oz are about as far removed from one another as you can get. Not saying better or worse, but most fucking definitely not similar.

Maybe Iommi's just pissed because they got smoked every fucking night they took the stage.

[Seshmeister]

Van Halen are like the anti Sabbath. Lots of people may like both but they are opposites.

It's pretty unusual for a support band to destroy a headlining band, especially a multi-platinum selling one. As even Hagar pointed out you get half empty gigs, shitty lights, dodgy sound and people who have never heard you before.

Quite recently I found out a friend had been at this tour. She didn't know I liked Van Halen and isn't a VH fan herself, was a big Sabbath fan and the first thing she said was that Van Halen completely blew Sabbath off the stage.

Also I would guess there would be a lot more girls at a Van Halen show than you would get supporting Sabbath so Roth would have to change his shtick a bit.

"I'm gonna fuck your big hairy mechanic" doesn't have the same ring.

Neither does "I love the way the line goes down the back of your Aleister Crowley book".

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Van Halen are like the anti Sabbath. Lots of people may like both but they are opposites.

Thank you....

Two COMPLETELY different types of bands....

[Seshmeister]

It's an environment thing.

If you ever went to Birmingham in the UK even now never mind 40 years ago you would understand the origin of the Sabbath sound immediately.

Just like Van Halen being from California and grunge and Queensryche coming out of the rain of Seattle.

There is a thesis waiting to be written on the meteorology of rock...

[NATEDOG001976]

VH copied Milli Vanilli. End of story...

[ace diamond]

It's an environment thing.

If you ever went to Birmingham in the UK even now never mind 40 years ago you would understand the origin of the Sabbath sound immediately.

Just like Van Halen being from California and grunge and Queensryche coming out of the rain of Seattle.

There is a thesis waiting to be written on the meteorology of rock...

don't forget jimi hendrix........he came from seattle also.......

[Golden AWe]

"I'm gonna fuck your big hairy mechanic" doesn't have the same ring.

Neither does "I love the way the line goes down the back of your Aleister Crowley book".

HA!

I think Black Label Society gig has been the worst, when it comes to women on gig. There were about 50 men to every one woman, and she was ugly...

[Nitro Express]

Ozzy admitted Van Halen were upshowing Sabbath. Michael Anthony laughed and said VH was blowing Sabbath away every night. Also Eddie and Alex were HUGE Sabbath fans and wanted to name their band Rat Salad after a Sabbath song. I know Eddie and Toni Iommi are still good friends.

We've all heard the old VH club stuff and we've heard early Black Sabbath. VH was blowing everyone away in the 1970's. Nobody was doing what Eddie was doing in those days and Roth was unique as well. It was before all the bad copycats in the 1980's and so I imagine Sabbath was going holy shit!

[Nitro Express]

I sat in a guitar class taught by GE Smith at The Fur Peace Ranch and the first thing he taught us was music shouldn't be a competition. He didn't care if one student just knew a C chord and another was a master at the instrument. The point was to learn and not be concerned with how great you are or feeling inferior. He said music should be enjoyed and not overanalyzed or falling into debate who's better than who.

Sabbath was great and Van Halen was great. Seeing both on the same bill was a bonus to the fans and if people got stuck on having to decide who was better, shame on them.

[FORD]

Well there is a version of "Summertime Blues" on one of the bootlegs where VH starts out playing it pretty much like The Who, and then in the middle, changes tempo Sabbath style (i.e. Electric Funeral or other songs of that era)

Might have actually been from the 78 tour now that I think about it. All I can find on You Tube is the 1983 version though, which is pretty much a straight up cover of The Who's version all the way through.

[Seshmeister]

HA!

I think Black Label Society gig has been the worst, when it comes to women on gig. There were about 50 men to every one woman, and she was ugly...

Steve Vai gigs are like a Dungeons and Dragons convention without the glamour. For his live videos I think they always pay for a couple of girls to stand down the front who they can cut to every second crowd scene.

[Golden AWe]

Steve Vai gigs are like a Dungeons and Dragons convention without the glamour. For his live videos I think they always pay for a couple of girls to stand down the front who they can cut to every second crowd scene.

We sometimes have to pay for our crimes, when it comes to good music. Now whenever we slip a bit, and start liking a newer generation band like Muse, which makes decent music, but would never exist without their fathers like Queen, the gigs are FILLED with chicks...now I do feel a little awkward on those partly very superficial and fashion following gigs, every time...

[sonrisa salvaje]

Black Sabbath were winding down in popularity and you have this energetic upstart band who are thrilled to death to be performing live in front of a decent audience. I can't imagine that Van Halen needed to copy anything to have the edge on a nightly basis. Dave had the gift of gab from the start so why would he need to take lines from Ozzy? Was he saying, "I love you all" or "let me see your fucking hands"? I kind of doubt it. I also can't see Dave holding up both arms with double peace signs. We do know that Van Halen was highly competitive in their stage shows so i can see them adding things as the tour went along to try and outdo Sabbath. I think Sabbath implying that Van Halen were doing a Sabbath show before Sabbath came on is a bit of an excuse.

[BITEYOASS]

Black Sabbath? No

Cactus? hell yeah! But who cares! musicians have been ripping off other musicians for decades.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Lav01OXwdic&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Lav01OXwdic&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[chefcraig]

Black Sabbath? No

Cactus? hell yeah! But who cares! musicians have been ripping off other musicians for decades.

Yup, VH took from some of the best and occasionally most unsung bands ever, such as Trapeze, The Edgar Winter Group, Montrose and Derringer (whose live album I'm certain is the reason for the cover of "You Really Got Me").

[BITEYOASS]

Every blues-rock musician has ripped off Satan--even Robert Johnson. And its about time for the devil to file a lawsuit of hellish proportions.

[ThrillsNSpills]

[QUOTE=FORD;1411380]Well there is a version of "Summertime Blues" on one of the bootlegs where VH starts out playing it pretty much like The Who, and then in the middle, changes tempo Sabbath style (i.e. Electric Funeral or other songs of that era)

QUOTE]

They got that from the Blue Cheer version.

[ThrillsNSpills]

Yup, VH took from some of the best and occasionally most unsung bands ever, such as Trapeze, The Edgar Winter Group, Montrose and Derringer (whose live album I'm certain is the reason for the cover of "You Really Got Me").

The Live version of Sailor.
most amazin'

[kwame k]

I sat in a guitar class taught by GE Smith at The Fur Peace Ranch and the first thing he taught us was music shouldn't be a competition. He didn't care if one student just knew a C chord and another was a master at the instrument. The point was to learn and not be concerned with how great you are or feeling inferior. He said music should be enjoyed and not overanalyzed or falling into debate who's better than who.

A Rasta dude said something to me when I played the Elbow Room in New York City for the first time, "Music is a mission not a competition, man".

Those dudes fucking stoned me out that nighthow they played that baked and played well, is beyond me.

[Nitro Express]

I got dragged to a Duran Duran concert in the 80's and they were better live musicians than I thought they would be and I was surrounded by horny girls pressing up on me and I swear the placed smelled like sex and wet pussy.

[kwame k]

Hell, I went to see Bon Jovi at a casino before I got married, with a chic I was dating at the time.......I've never seen so many hot MILFs and Cougars in one place in my life. Wow!

[VAiN]

[QUOTE=ThrillsNSpills;1411442]

Well there is a version of "Summertime Blues" on one of the bootlegs where VH starts out playing it pretty much like The Who, and then in the middle, changes tempo Sabbath style (i.e. Electric Funeral or other songs of that era)

QUOTE]

They got that from the Blue Cheer version.

You beat me to it!
It was a cover of the Blue Cheer cover, and a damn good one at that!

[ELVIS]

It's amazing that some of you guys seem to put pussy into the same context as going to see a good band play...

[Nitro Express]

It's amazing that some of you guys seem to put pussy into the same context as going to see a good band play...

Not really. I've enjoyed every Rush show I've ever gone to since Moving Pictures and there was no pussy there. Pussy is a nice bonus. I got dragged to see Rick Springfield and thank god for the pussy. It made it tolerable.

[Nitro Express]

A Chicken foot show would be a pussy wasteland.

[ELVIS]

I'm just saying if pussy is your objective, you are lost...

[Nickdfresh]

And here I thought Van Halen, or at least Dave, ripped off Black Oak Arkansas...

[kwame k]

And here I thought Van Halen, or at least Dave, ripped off Black Oak Arkansas...

What the fuck would ever make you think that