Ed once asked "Jeff Berlin" to join Van Halen ?

[Va Beach VH Fan]

I realize I don't have the wide-ranging musical tastes that some of you do, but I have no fooking clue who Jeff Berlin is.....

http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/news.php?id=54778

Jeff Berlin's resume reads like the who's who of the higher echelon of music artists. Jeff Berlin was even asked to join Van Halen, an invitation that he actually turned down. “Eddie Van Halen was a fan of the band that I played in with Bill Bruford," Berlin recalls. “We met and started to hang out and jam together. He was a sweet terrific guy. One day he saw me play a gig with my group and then asked me if I would like to join Van Halen. After this, we rehearsed at David Lee Roth's house a couple of times. Ultimately, I said no to his gracious offer because when you join a band, you join the entirety of it, the life philosophy of its members and also the habits that they may be involved with. I felt that, in terms of activities and attitudes, I didn't mesh with their vision of things. I didn't wish to be mercenary and just take the job for money because it wouldn't be fair to the band members. So, I just said no to the offer."

[Bowanna]

He has ties with Allan Holdsworth... I've read EVH is a big fan of AH.

[ThrillsNSpills]

Jeff Berlin WAILS.

He's a real monster technically. He wrote for guitar player magazine in the 80's.
I don't remember him playing in Bruford, but he made a couple solo albums, one of which had him and Neal Schon playing an unbelievable high energy rock tune called Subway Train.

[ThrillsNSpills]

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Bill Bruford made some progressive albums where all the musicians were beyond capable.
One of a Kind, Gradually Going Tornado, and the Bruford Tapes are all have brilliant songs and performances.

[GreenBayLA]

No love for Michael Anthony, it surprizes me that Eddie tried to replace him multiple times and even Roth was in on this one. Why mess with the chemistry of the band? I guess no one liked Anthony's playing. I never had a problem with it.

Great player but does he look like a rock star? No. Then again does Wolfie?

[chefcraig]

Sometime in 1982, the following line-up did an impromptu jam during a clinic by Alan Holdsworth (at the Musicians Institute in Hollywood, California) where Berlin was teaching. (Read more here)

The musicians:
Alan Holdsworth - Electric Guitar
Gary Husband - Drums
Jeff Berlin - Electric Bass
Eddie Van Halen - Electric Guitar

You'll notice Eddie pretty much parades his predictable bag of tricks, and Holdsworth makes him pay for it. The sound is pretty dismal, as it came from an audience recording. The clips are full of ripping solos from the two guitarists as well as the bass. Get them while you can, as Jeff Berlin has already removed some of his other bootlegged material from Youtube.

[GreenBayLA]

What do bassists Jeff Berlin & Billy Sheehan have in common?
Both said NO to Eddie.

[Terry]

Berlin was pretty big in musician circles around the late 1970s/early 1980s.

The dude played with Zappa, and FZ tended not to hire schlubs, so obviously Berlin had chops and ability.

It wouldn't be a surprise to find out Eddie asked berlin to join Van Halen, even as far back as the CVH years. Hey, he hit up Billy Sheehan back in the day, and Ed was making plenty of drunken, off-the-record comments to music journalists even during the Fair Warning period that he felt Biff Malibu wasn't pulling his weight.

[chefcraig]

It wouldn't be a surprise to find out Eddie asked berlin to join Van Halen, even as far back as the CVH years. Hey, he hit up Billy Sheehan back in the day, and Ed was making plenty of drunken, off-the-record comments to music journalists even during the Fair Warning period that he felt Biff Malibu wasn't pulling his weight.

But it does point to something interesting, even if the thoughts were drunken in nature: At that time, Ed Van Halen was feeling a need to be challenged, or at least to expand from the predictable nature of the "guitar/drums/w/bass following" axis he'd worked with until that point. To his credit, Berlin sensed the overwhelming writing on the wall with regard to rock bands, and opted out. Yet you still have to wonder what an instrumental break (read solo project) at this point, sans Roth, would have done for the guitarist. Imagine if it had sold well? This could have jibed with Roth's desire to step out as well, and as Roth predicted, the entire Van Halen enterprise could have reformed a few years down the line, refreshed and ready to take on all comers.

Sadly, it's yet another "what if" scenario. And we all know how things turned out.

[Diamondjimi]

This jam seems to be the last time Ed "cut heads" with another guitarist in public. I remember the Berlin story from waaay back. Ed was most likely juiced when he asked Jeff to join...

[MAX]

You guys ever hear Holdsworth's album "Road Games?" I believe Jeff was on that album? I have it on vinyl and haven't listened to it in years. Anyway, that's the one that Ed got Warner Bros to release and Ted Templeman to produce. That was in '81 or '82. Also, Ed once said that his solo on "Push Comes To Shove" was heavily inspired by Allan. As a guitarist, I wholeheartedly agree cos that's my all-time favorite solo of his on ANY VH tune. I can definitely tell he's doing some Allan licks there. I met Allan in '86 when he opened for Chick Corea's Electric Band. I was looking for a bathroom inbetween sets and Allan was walking around the theater with his guitar case!!! I had to talk to him and did. He was a total and proper English gentleman. Very matter of fact when talking about EVH to some heavy metal pretty boy like I was back in the day. lmao

Anyhoo, Berlin is awesome and I mentioned this whole deal years ago at the links when everyone was crying "Mikey!!!! WAAAAAAA!!!!! MAMAAAAAA!!!!

Again, it just goes to show that EVH was never really satisfied with MA for years.

[chefcraig]

This jam seems to be the last time Ed "cut heads" with another guitarist in public. I remember the Berlin story from waaay back. Ed was most likely juiced when he asked Jeff to join...

There was another event sometime the nineties, a showcase set up by Sterling Ball that featured Ed, Steve Morse and Albert Lee. It was covered by a writer from Musician magazine, who went on (in a lengthy article) to slam EVH for his inability to keep up with Morse and Lee, making "elephant noises" instead of fitting in with the complex, country-based tunes.

Well, Sir Ed went on a rampage, disallowing any interviews with the magazine from that day forward. I wish I could find the original piece, because the guy really tore Ed a new asshole. And in Ed's defense, it really was somewhat uncalled for. The thing is, it was the first public comeuppance that Mr. Van Halen ever had, and I honestly believe it was the beginning of the weird as shit relations that the guy has had with music magazines to this very day.

[MAX]

There was another event sometime the nineties, a showcase set up by Sterling Ball that featured Ed, Steve Morse and Albert Lee. It was covered by a writer from Musician magazine, who went on (in a lengthy article) to slam EVH for his inability to keep up with Morse and Lee, making "elephant noises" instead of fitting in with the complex, country-based tunes.

I'd be pissed off at the writer as well cos Ed makes horsie noises when he plays live or on albums. The "elephant" ones are just for fun.

[Seshmeister]

What do bassists Jeff Berlin & Billy Sheehan have in common?

Neither of them realise that bass solos are like fart solos. Kind of fun for soloist but everyone else finds them inappropriate and wants to go to the bar.

[Seshmeister]

As I said last time this thread came around if you want to hear how gimmicky and shit Van Halen music sounds with virtuoso bass playing get a hold of an EEAS live bootleg.

[twonabomber]

i may still have that mag, i will be going through some things here and if i find it i'll scan it.

There was another event sometime the nineties, a showcase set up by Sterling Ball that featured Ed, Steve Morse and Albert Lee. It was covered by a writer from Musician magazine, who went on (in a lengthy article) to slam EVH for his inability to keep up with Morse and Lee, making "elephant noises" instead of fitting in with the complex, country-based tunes.

Well, Sir Ed went on a rampage, disallowing any interviews with the magazine from that day forward. I wish I could find the original piece, because the guy really tore Ed a new asshole. And in Ed's defense, it really was somewhat uncalled for. The thing is, it was the first public comeuppance that Mr. Van Halen ever had, and I honestly believe it was the beginning of the weird as shit relations that the guy has had with music magazines to this very day.

[VHscraps]

There was another event sometime the nineties, a showcase set up by Sterling Ball that featured Ed, Steve Morse and Albert Lee. It was covered by a writer from Musician magazine, who went on (in a lengthy article) to slam EVH for his inability to keep up with Morse and Lee, making "elephant noises" instead of fitting in with the complex, country-based tunes.

Well, Sir Ed went on a rampage, disallowing any interviews with the magazine from that day forward. I wish I could find the original piece, because the guy really tore Ed a new asshole. And in Ed's defense, it really was somewhat uncalled for. The thing is, it was the first public comeuppance that Mr. Van Halen ever had, and I honestly believe it was the beginning of the weird as shit relations that the guy has had with music magazines to this very day.

I have that article / mag. I'd scan it for you if I thought I could post it here.

Ed's big gripe wasn't really that he was shown up by the other two (although the journalist says he was shown up). His main gripe was that Musician magazine were using him to sell copies. Eddie happened to be at some music expo event and agreed to get up on stage with the other two, who were the billed attraction. But, Musician magazine splashed it all over the cover and sold it as 'Van Halen's Guitar Rumble'. Talk about fuckin' ambushing somebody - when he was doing Lee and Morse a favour by getting them attention - same as he did with Holdsworth, who just bitches about the Road Games record (he couldn't wait for Eddie to get back from South America and decided to produce it himself, with Templeman as 'Exec. producer', instead of Eddie - result = it sold squat because he did the same stuff that only the same guitar heads ever want to listen to).

But the Musician article - at the time I thought it touched on Eddie's insecurities probably pretty accurately - but at the same time it was as mean as fuck. I don't see he should be insecure about his playing, but I think he is just generally an insecure guy - in all aspects. Hence the booze. Why would Eddie want to be like those other two guys? Y'know, it was like saying - "hey Albert Lee, why ain't you writing tunes that they play on the radio, or that make people wanna punch the air at in jubilation at how uplifting it is? How come only fuckin guitar nerds listen to your music?" etc.

Y'know -- Albert Lee and Steve Morse and any number of other players are probably better than Eddie technically, but they are all pretty anonymous technicians - sing me one of their tunes! That's what I like about Eddie - he writes songs. And he's got soul, man - or at least, he used to have soul. Listen to Eddie on the first 3-4 VH albums and he is just pure energy, man; pure character. That's the difference - couple of notes of that Brown and you know it's him.

[lesfunk]

I studied with Jeff Berlin and he's probably the most skilled musician playing an electric bass alive today. He's also a terrible teacher because he's working on such a high level he glosses over stuff a schlub like me needs to think about.
He would have been completely wrong for VH. It's funny that Ed trid to replace Anthony so many times when Anthony was the perfect bass player for Van Halen

[chefcraig]

I studied with Jeff Berlin...

"Big deal, I studied with Segovia. Really, I did. I'm not kidding, I mean it, I truly studied with Segovia. Seriously. Damn it, why doesn't anybody believe me? Oh, and these guitars I'm hocking on the Home Shopping Network actually are quality merchandise. No, the hat is not made out of plastic. Come on, stop laughing at me, you bastards."

[Diamondjimi]

As I said last time this thread came around if you want to hear how gimmicky and shit Van Halen music sounds with virtuoso bass playing get a hold of an EEAS live bootleg.

Exactly Sesh.

Although I thought the EEAS lineup was a great bunch of players. I was simply too much when it came to the bands rhythm section. Billy tone is fucking grating. It sounds like a weed wacker with a broken muffler...
Mike was the perfect bassist for Ed's style of music, less busy and a slave to the groove...

[Diamondjimi]

There was another event sometime the nineties, a showcase set up by Sterling Ball that featured Ed, Steve Morse and Albert Lee. It was covered by a writer from Musician magazine, who went on (in a lengthy article) to slam EVH for his inability to keep up with Morse and Lee, making "elephant noises" instead of fitting in with the complex, country-based tunes.

Well, Sir Ed went on a rampage, disallowing any interviews with the magazine from that day forward. I wish I could find the original piece, because the guy really tore Ed a new asshole. And in Ed's defense, it really was somewhat uncalled for. The thing is, it was the first public comeuppance that Mr. Van Halen ever had, and I honestly believe it was the beginning of the weird as shit relations that the guy has had with music magazines to this very day.

Ed went on a rampge because he'd have probably liked to forget that he had his fuckin ass handed to him AGAIN!
His inabilty to contribute to the context of the music was his downfall. He was doing the "Eddie Van Halen Show" and it backfired. He's a one trick pony in that sense. He CAN"T play Jazz, he CAN"T play Country.... (he can FAKE classical) He is a Rock guitarist. In his mind/universe he likes to believe he's much more. But in reality, he's not even though he's probably the most influential guitarist of his generation. I have met and hung out with Morse & Lee. Two absolute monster players who, as human beings, are the salt of the Earth.
I wonder if Ed's had all the door frames of his home modified to fit his big fuckin head through....

I have a poster of that Musician cover with the 3 of them on it.... somewhere around here.

I have that article / mag. I'd scan it for you if I thought I could post it here.

Ed's big gripe wasn't really that he was shown up by the other two (although the journalist says he was shown up). His main gripe was that Musician magazine were using him to sell copies. Eddie happened to be at some music expo event and agreed to get up on stage with the other two, who were the billed attraction. But, Musician magazine splashed it all over the cover and sold it as 'Van Halen's Guitar Rumble'. Talk about fuckin' ambushing somebody - when he was doing Lee and Morse a favour by getting them attention - same as he did with Holdsworth, who just bitches about the Road Games record (he couldn't wait for Eddie to get back from South America and decided to produce it himself, with Templeman as 'Exec. producer', instead of Eddie - result = it sold squat because he did the same stuff that only the same guitar heads ever want to listen to).

But the Musician article - at the time I thought it touched on Eddie's insecurities probably pretty accurately - but at the same time it was as mean as fuck. I don't see he should be insecure about his playing, but I think he is just generally an insecure guy - in all aspects. Hence the booze. Why would Eddie want to be like those other two guys? Y'know, it was like saying - "hey Albert Lee, why ain't you writing tunes that they play on the radio, or that make people wanna punch the air at in jubilation at how uplifting it is? How come only fuckin guitar nerds listen to your music?" etc.

Y'know -- Albert Lee and Steve Morse and any number of other players are probably better than Eddie technically, but they are all pretty anonymous technicians - sing me one of their tunes! That's what I like about Eddie - he writes songs. And he's got soul, man - or at least, he used to have soul. Listen to Eddie on the first 3-4 VH albums and he is just pure energy, man; pure character. That's the difference - couple of notes of that Brown and you know it's him.

Whatever, scan the goddamn article and post the fucker for us . Would you please?!

[Diamondjimi]

"Big deal, I studied with Segovia. Really, I did. I'm not kidding, I mean it, I truly studied with Segovia. Seriously. Damn it, why doesn't anybody believe me? Oh, and these guitars I'm hocking on the Home Shopping Network actually are quality merchandise. No, the hat is not made out of plastic. Come on, stop laughing at me, you bastards."

My girlfriend ordered one of that Fucktard's guitars off the infomercial (before I met her) When she showed it to me I couldn't cuntain my laughter. I was literally rolling on the fucking floor laffing my bawls off.
That clown is a snake oil salesman ,at best. They're probably worse than GAR's plywood Charvette!

[Diamondjimi]

Hey, why not some Albert Lee?
(Yes Lee wrote this and made a boatload of $ Rickey Scaggs version)

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And of course one frome the incredible Dixie Dregs
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Note to EVH: THIS IS HOW YOU PLAY OVER COUNTRY GROOVES!

[VHscraps]

Ed went on a rampge because he'd have probably liked to forget that he had his fuckin ass handed to him AGAIN!
His inabilty to contribute to the context of the music was his downfall. He was doing the "Eddie Van Halen Show" and it backfired. He's a one trick pony in that sense. He CAN"T play Jazz, he CAN"T play Country.... (he can FAKE classical) He is a Rock guitarist. In his mind/universe he likes to believe he's much more. But in reality, he's not even though he's probably the most influential guitarist of his generation. I have met and hung out with Morse & Lee. Two absolute monster players who, as human beings, are the salt of the Earth.
I wonder if Ed's had all the door frames of his home modified to fit his big fuckin head through....

I have a poster of that Musician cover with the 3 of them on it.... somewhere around here.


Whatever, scan the goddamn article and post the fucker for us . Would you please?!

Yer, okay - but it's way past my bedtime (in the UK) and I ain't gettin any younger - I will do it in the morn, which will probably be YOUR bedtime.

Considering you are 94 years old I will trust in Zeus, or whoever holds up the sky for you, that you can remain undead until tomorrow ...

[Diamondjimi]

Yer, okay - but it's way past my bedtime (in the UK) and I ain't gettin any younger - I will do it in the morn, which will probably be YOUR bedtime.

Considering you are 94 years old I will trust in Zeus, or whoever holds up the sky for you, that you can remain undead until tomorrow ...

Haha, nice one!
Forgot you're 6 hrs ahead of us over here.
Tomorrow's cool man...

[GreenBayLA]

What do bassists Jeff Berlin & Billy Sheehan have in common?

Neither of them realise that bass solos are like fart solos. Kind of fun for soloist but everyone else finds them inappropriate and wants to go to the bar.

Obviously you're excluding a MICHAEL ANTHONY bass solo SM...
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[Seshmeister]

I would unplug him.

Seriously.

Why is that fucking noise acceptable just because it's him making it? It's the emperors new clothes. If anyone did that in any other circumstances you would switch off his amp and then shout at him saying stop making that hellish fucking noise or I'll kill you.

[lesfunk]

"Big deal, I studied with Segovia. Really, I did. I'm not kidding, I mean it, I truly studied with Segovia. Seriously. Damn it, why doesn't anybody believe me? Oh, and these guitars I'm hocking on the Home Shopping Network actually are quality merchandise. No, the hat is not made out of plastic. Come on, stop laughing at me, you bastards."

What are you breaking my balls for Chef? You don't think I took lessons with Berlin? It ain't that big of a deal. A lot of people did. He was on the teaching staff at M.I. when I went there and used to give bass lessons at the Bass Centre in the valley. I took a couple lessons with him just to say I did. Fuck you if you doubt.
As far as Esteban goes, I ain't as good as him.

[DavidLeeNatra]

when drums stop...very bad...bass solo...

[VHscraps]

Haha, nice one!
Forgot you're 6 hrs ahead of us over here.
Tomorrow's cool man...

Okay - here it is. Let's hope I don't fuck this up - it's 12 pages. I can't get it to embed the images .... WTF

Haven't had time to read it again - but the way I remember it was that the story was really on Steve Morse or Albert Lee (or both). Because they were appearing at a MusicMan Ernie Ball thing, Eddie happened to be there too, and he got up onstage. My impression was that it was not set up as a Musician interview with Van Halen, but because he was there and the guy was doing the story on those guitarists and promoting Music Man gear, he spoke to him. The journalist, Matt Resnicoff (I think Ed later called him Matt Fucknicoff) managed to interview Ed, and he suggested that his band wasn't good enough for him. That it didn't challenge him - like the widdly jazz rock fusion stuff he obviously thought was more worthy than VH (the journo goes on about Morse being so poor and VH being so rich, implying that it is unfair, etc) And, I think he also managed to get Ed to 'fess up to playing some bass on the F.U.C.K album, which he obviously didn't want to admit.

But, I think the whole thing was about the fact that he suggested Alex Van Halen, Anthony etc. weren't good enough, and then used Van Halen on the cover to sell a magazine based on a story that was really a story about Morse and Lee. AND - this must've really fucked off VH, the journo went to DLR for an assessment of Ed's limitations, or something like that, which appears towards the end of the story. Yeah, it's no wonder Leffler wanted to break his bones ...

In the aftermath, Ed Leffler wrote a fuck you letter to Musician magazine, which was published in their letters page. I think Musician magazine lost revenue 'cos ads were pulled, etc., and the journalist, Matt Resnicoff, quit the journalism business and said that Leffler threatened him with physical harm - not odd for a manager in rock'n'roll, if you've ever seen Zep's The Song Remains the Same and Peter Grant in action. Anyway, here's a link to an interview with Matt Resnicoff, where he mentions it briefly:

http://rockcriticsarchives.com/inter...resnicoff.html

and here are the scans:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4008/...c1af5db2_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3465/...6fbefaa5_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3016/...51b4a144_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3060/...8454c6ea_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3133/...88bb0d33_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3623/...edd9ce97_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3268/...616d0961_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3524/...9118dbaa_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4057/...f7fcb21b_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4004/...760e8268_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3612/...48e244f8_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4037/...582aef38_b.jpg

[VHscraps]

Okay, so I messed it up - posted links instead of images. Let me try again:

Haven't had time to read it again - but the way I remember it was that the story was really on Steve Morse or Albert Lee (or both). Because they were appearing at a MusicMan Ernie Ball thing, Eddie happened to be there too, and he got up onstage. My impression was that it was not set up as a Musician interview with Van Halen, but because he was there and the guy was doing the story on those guitarists and promoting Music Man gear, he spoke to him. The journalist, Matt Resnicoff (I think Ed later called him Matt Fucknicoff) managed to interview Ed, and he suggested that his band wasn't good enough for him. That it didn't challenge him - like the widdly jazz rock fusion stuff he obviously thought was more worthy than VH (the journo goes on about Morse being so poor and VH being so rich, implying that it is unfair, etc) And, I think he also managed to get Ed to 'fess up to playing some bass on the F.U.C.K album, which he obviously didn't want to admit.

But, I think the whole thing was about the fact that he suggested Alex Van Halen, Anthony etc. weren't good enough, and then used Van Halen on the cover to sell a magazine based on a story that was really a story about Morse and Lee. AND - this must've really fucked off VH, the journo went to DLR for an assessment of Ed's limitations, or something like that, which appears towards the end of the story. Yeah, it's no wonder Leffler wanted to break his bones ...

In the aftermath, Ed Leffler wrote a fuck you letter to Musician magazine, which was published in their letters page. I think Musician magazine lost revenue 'cos ads were pulled, etc., and the journalist, Matt Resnicoff, quit the journalism business and said that Leffler threatened him with physical harm - not odd for a manager in rock'n'roll, if you've ever seen Zep's The Song Remains the Same and Peter Grant in action. Anyway, here's a link to an interview with Matt Resnicoff, where he mentions it briefly:

http://rockcriticsarchives.com/inter...resnicoff.html

and here are the scans:

[Nickdfresh]

As I said last time this thread came around if you want to hear how gimmicky and shit Van Halen music sounds with virtuoso bass playing get a hold of an EEAS live bootleg.

Yeah, I'll second that. Billy Sheehan is a great musician. But Ed obviously never heard many EUAS boots...

[GreenBayLA]

I would unplug him.

Seriously.

Why is that fucking noise acceptable just because it's him making it? It's the emperors new clothes. If anyone did that in any other circumstances you would switch off his amp and then shout at him saying stop making that hellish fucking noise or I'll kill you.

LOL I was just stirring the pot a bit SM. But Michael Anthony unplugged! You may be onto something, put him on an upright bass in a skiffle group.

[twonabomber]

In the aftermath, Ed Leffler wrote a fuck you letter to Musician magazine, which was published in their letters page. I think Musician magazine lost revenue 'cos ads were pulled, etc., and the journalist, Matt Resnicoff, quit the journalism business and said that Leffler threatened him with physical harm - not odd for a manager in rock'n'roll, if you've ever seen Zep's The Song Remains the Same and Peter Grant in action.

Leffler called Resnicoff a kike in that letter, didn't he?

[Terry]

But it does point to something interesting, even if the thoughts were drunken in nature: At that time, Ed Van Halen was feeling a need to be challenged, or at least to expand from the predictable nature of the "guitar/drums/w/bass following" axis he'd worked with until that point. To his credit, Berlin sensed the overwhelming writing on the wall with regard to rock bands, and opted out. Yet you still have to wonder what an instrumental break (read solo project) at this point, sans Roth, would have done for the guitarist. Imagine if it had sold well? This could have jibed with Roth's desire to step out as well, and as Roth predicted, the entire Van Halen enterprise could have reformed a few years down the line, refreshed and ready to take on all comers.

Sadly, it's yet another "what if" scenario. And we all know how things turned out.

Obviously we will never know what would have happened, but with a world-class technician like Berlin in the band...I dunno, but I have doubts as to how great that would have sounded, or if that would have suited the band well. See, the great thing about CVH is they had technical ability to spare, but were able to temper that tendency some groups have to overindulge in wanking displays of musicianship (The worst aspects of Rush, a band that I like, spring to mind) and always keep the groove and the song at the forefront. Mike Anthony certainly wouldn't be accused by any rational person of overplaying on any of the CVH recordingsn, he didn't have to with Roth and Ed fronting the group.

[VHscraps]

Leffler called Resnicoff a kike in that letter, didn't he?

I think you are right - I had forgotten about that. There was originally an image of Leffler's letter on the Matt Resnicoff article I linked to in my first post, but it wasn't there yesterday when I went to find the above link to add the Resnicoff interview where he mentions the EVH incident. I just went back to check it that page at www.rockcritics.com to see if I could find the source in the HTML, and see if I could find some source file info on the image of Leffler's letter -- and the whole page has vanished?! That's a fuckin odd coincidence, I'd say.

[Terry]

Funny in that I thought I'd read virtually every major music mag interview on Ed from back in the day (although the early 1990s was a little bit past 'back in the day' far as VH were concerned, but whatever).

By that point, Ed was just too used to various guitar-oriented magazines treating him like he was god, whereas Musician magazine was never quite as idolatory about him or Van Halen (I remember a cover story in that mag in the early 1980s about Van Halen, with a shot of Roth and Ed on the front under the storyline Rock's Odd Couple: How Long Can It Last?). Although the 1991 article above never came right out and said so, it alluded toward the fact that Ed's style had basically gone on autopilot and Ed certainly looked like a one-trick pony when stacked up against players like Morse (I enjoyed the subtle jibes at Ed's repetitive use of 'elephant squeals').

"What's the point of being pushed?" Indeed, that's the mindset that crept in after Roth left. Ed was in charge. Anthony wasn't going to push him musically. Hagar, master of the mundane, didn't have the ability to. Al is family. The records for the most part were recorded in Ed's home studio / home-court advantage. It was all up to Ed to push himself. Several instances of it would appear on each Van Hagar record, but they were like teasers, always leaving me wondering what they could have evolved into with perhaps a different producer NOT working in Ed's home studio, or his brother on drums...or a bassplayer who could actually write and not just follow...or a singer who could write decent lyrics...

[VHscraps]

Funny in that I thought I'd read virtually every major music mag interview on Ed from back in the day (although the early 1990s was a little bit past 'back in the day' far as VH were concerned, but whatever).

By that point, Ed was just too used to various guitar-oriented magazines treating him like he was god, whereas Musician magazine was never quite as idolatory about him or Van Halen (I remember a cover story in that mag in the early 1980s about Van Halen, with a shot of Roth and Ed on the front under the storyline Rock's Odd Couple: How Long Can It Last?). Although the 1991 article above never came right out and said so, it alluded toward the fact that Ed's style had basically gone on autopilot and Ed certainly looked like a one-trick pony when stacked up against players like Morse (I enjoyed the subtle jibes at Ed's repetitive use of 'elephant squeals').

"What's the point of being pushed?" Indeed, that's the mindset that crept in after Roth left. Ed was in charge. Anthony wasn't going to push him musically. Hagar, master of the mundane, didn't have the ability to. Al is family. The records for the most part were recorded in Ed's home studio / home-court advantage. It was all up to Ed to push himself. Several instances of it would appear on each Van Hagar record, but they were like teasers, always leaving me wondering what they could have evolved into with perhaps a different producer NOT working in Ed's home studio, or his brother on drums...or a bassplayer who could actually write and not just follow...or a singer who could write decent lyrics...

I think the thrust of that article is basically right, although a fair bit of meanness in it, too. Yeah - you're right, the other guitar mags kissed Eddie's ass for too long. But - and it is a big BUT - he changed the way a lot of people (for good and bad) thought about guitar playing, like no-one since Hendrix, so he will always be a big deal. How many people copy Steve Morse - no disrespect to the guy, as I know he is a fine player? But that's also Eddie's curse in a way - as the article says, people expect him to be superhuman.

But the main thing is Ed being on autopilot - I agree. Building 5150 was the crucial change in that direction, dumping Templeman, etc. I read an online interview with Andy Johns a few years ago - long after he worked with VH - and he was even kinda scared to be critical, but he did say something like, 'no one knows what's goin' on with Eddie - he sacked the whole band, including Alex.' I think this was the early 2000s

I think DLR has always been right on this - Eddie's got a problem being in charge and having to make the decisions.

If they ever make another record, let's hope he is not 'producing' it. He needs someone to tell him what to do - because as he keeps saying in the article, he really doesn't know how to make sense of his talent. I reckon that's what paralyzes him creatively.

[Diamondjimi]

I would unplug him.

Seriously.

Why is that fucking noise acceptable just because it's him making it? It's the emperors new clothes. If anyone did that in any other circumstances you would switch off his amp and then shout at him saying stop making that hellish fucking noise or I'll kill you.

[Terry]

I think the thrust of that article is basically right, although a fair bit of meanness in it, too. Yeah - you're right, the other guitar mags kissed Eddie's ass for too long. But - and it is a big BUT - he changed the way a lot of people (for good and bad) thought about guitar playing, like no-one since Hendrix, so he will always be a big deal. How many people copy Steve Morse - no disrespect to the guy, as I know he is a fine player? But that's also Eddie's curse in a way - as the article says, people expect him to be superhuman.

But the main thing is Ed being on autopilot - I agree. Building 5150 was the crucial change in that direction, dumping Templeman, etc. I read an online interview with Andy Johns a few years ago - long after he worked with VH - and he was even kinda scared to be critical, but he did say something like, 'no one knows what's goin' on with Eddie - he sacked the whole band, including Alex.' I think this was the early 2000s

I think DLR has always been right on this - Eddie's got a problem being in charge and having to make the decisions.

If they ever make another record, let's hope he is not 'producing' it. He needs someone to tell him what to do - because as he keeps saying in the article, he really doesn't know how to make sense of his talent. I reckon that's what paralyzes him creatively.

Undoubtedly Ed made a huge impact on rock guitar. If nothing else, he brought it out of the pentatonic blues scale doldrums it had been stuck in for much of the 1970s.

By the end of the 1980s, though, his influence tended to be along the lines of other (too many, IMO) guitarists copying the superficialities of his style, and putting both hands on the fretboard or jacking off a locking tremolo system came across to me like just a tedious bag-of-tricks display that was widespread to the point of annoyance. Granted, Eddie had no control over the fact that this was how his influence would be felt. Precious few guitarists actually took what Eddie did and built a style of their own out of it beyond mere flash, at least not to these ears.

He really was a one-of-a-kind player. A guy who took what he had been hearing from Page, Beck, Blackmore, Hendrix and countless others and really came up with something all his own. Unlike a lot of other guitarists Eddie inspired where Ed is the start and end of their inspiration (Warren DeMartini springs to mind).

I'd agree it is probably not a coincidence that Van Halen's finest work was done prior to the construction of 5150 studios and the gradual assumption of production duties by Ed.