The Recording Thread

[BigBadBrian]

I want to record and I'll admit I don't know jack shit about most of it.

Line6, Protools, Sweetwater, etc....fuck, those sites have so much info on them one doesn't know where to start.

Maybe some of you would care to brag about your setups, ie. hardware and software?

jhale, I know we bust each others chops in the Frontline, but I really do have a serious amount of respect for you in the guitar dept. You too, Sesh. Elvis and all you others?

Bassists and drummers welcome!

[jhale667]

I want to record and I'll admit I don't know jack shit about most of it.

Line6, Protools, Sweetwater, etc....fuck, those sites have so much info on them one doesn't know where to start.

Maybe some of you would care to brag about your setups, ie. hardware and software?

jhale, I know we bust each others chops in the Frontline, but I really do have a serious amount of respect for you in the guitar dept. You too, Sesh. Elvis and all you others?

Bassists and drummers welcome!

Well, OK - since you put it that way...


I'd strongly suggest looking into Pro Tools LE8 (if you're looking to add it to your existing system and not buy a stand-alone HD set-up with a separate Mac, etc). I'm using LE8 with an M-Box II setup on my PC. There IS kind of a learning curve at first, especially if you've never done digital recording before (I'd only dabbled in other programs), so take tons of notes when you watch the tutorial video, but once you figure out the basics and get your system up and running, you'll love it. Plus it's still the industry standard, so anything you record as a .PTF can be taken to ANY commercial studio anywhere and they can pull it and work with it without time con$uming file transfers and crap like that.

I'm contemplating upgrading my system's MB and processor soon, but it works fine on anything P4 (what I'm currently running) or better. You'll need an external HD for your session files (as they can be 1GB each easily), definitely get a Firewire one so you don't have lag issues with that part of it.

As for amp emulation, there's a bunch of routes you could go, but I'm having a blast with Line 6 PODfarm (also using their UX-2 interface). Tons of (expandable) guitar and bass amp emulations to be had, and they all sound pretty decent - especially if you replace their speaker emulation with those from a program (I've also turned DJ on to) called Recabinet. Their cabs sound better than Line 6's IMO, making your whole project sound better.

Just do some research, figure out what you need (and if the system you currently have can take it) and if you can do it on your existing computer system, you can probably come up with a very functional system for not a ton of cash, probably right around/just over a grand if you need studio monitors and whatnot. YMMV.

Best of luck!

[Diamondjimi]

Speaking for myself, I found that when using an external HD for storage as I progressed through my sessions and the track count grew as well as the amount of CPU used for driving all my VST's slowed and made the "real time" stutter" from the demands put on a 2.0 USB port.
I solved this by mounting my storage drive internally via ribbon connection direct to the motherboard port, thus eliminating the transfer rate of a USB port. It makes all the difference when stacking up 30-40 tracks + all the VST's running...

[jhale667]

Speaking for myself, I found that when using an external HD for storage as I progressed through my sessions and the track count grew as well as the amount of CPU used for driving all my VST's slowed and made the "real time" stutter" from the demands put on a 2.0 USB port.
I solved this by mounting my storage drive internally via ribbon connection direct to the motherboard port, thus eliminating the transfer rate of a USB port. It makes all the difference when stacking up 30-40 tracks + all the VST's running...

Yeah, of course you could always use a separate internal drive (meant to mention that), but the Firewire external ones are still faster (and less taxing) than USB 2.0.
Plus it's easier to unplug your external FW drive as opposed to cranking up to take your whole system with you to a session.

[jhale667]

And just 'cause I keeps it real:


DJ's the one who could actually conduct a tutorial on this subject though...the dude knows his shit!

[Reverberator]

I got good results with my gnx , only thing is is the protracks software is dodgy. Maybe time for a change for me too.

[VanHalenFan5150]

My Peavey amp has a really clean sounding USB out to it, but I only use that when I don't want to wake anyone up. Otherwise I use this really nice Samson mic that I bought a while back... For recording I use Audacity, which, given the circumstances, is a good tool to start off with... I'm good with Pro Tools though!

[Diamondjimi]

Yeah, of course you could always use a separate internal drive (meant to mention that), but the Firewire external ones are still faster (and less taxing) than USB 2.0.
Plus it's easier to unplug your external FW drive as opposed to cranking up to take your whole system with you to a session.

True, Firewire is the shizzle for that type of connection.

Benchmarks show that the sustained data transfer rates are higher for FireWire than for USB 2.0, but lower than USB 3.0. Results are marked on Apple Mac OS X but more varied on Microsoft Windows.[

Linky

And just 'cause I keeps it real:


DJ's the one who could actually conduct a tutorial on this subject though...the dude knows his shit!

Awe shucks, thanks Brutha...:0

[Seshmeister]

I fucked up by not going with Firewire, I strongly recommend you use that rather than attempt to use USB - the cards are now dirt cheap.

I think it's going to be superceded by USB3 but it will take quite a time for that to filter through.

[jhale667]

I fucked up by not going with Firewire, I strongly recommend you use that rather than attempt to use USB - the cards are now dirt cheap.

I think it's going to be superceded by USB3 but it will take quite a time for that to filter through.

True, I wanted a couple of extra FW ports in addition to the main one on my MB, so I picked up a card w/2 external and one internal port & 4 more USB 2.0 's for like $20....

[indeedido]

So I shouldn't be using my shoebox tape recorder to do my demos? One track isn't cool? LOL

[jhale667]

I got good results with my gnx , only thing is is the protracks software is dodgy. Maybe time for a change for me too.

A friend of mine uses his GNX into Cubase with decent results...

So I shouldn't be using my shoebox tape recorder to do my demos? One track isn't cool? LOL

One track is awesome until you want to double-track or layer something, then well...not so much...

[neuralfraud]

If you want to record, you'll never learn everything, so forget about that!

Start with basic equipment.

Good microphones? Good sound.

Good mixing board? again, good sound.

Bad audio interface? no audio interface?

There is one thing you need to know about computer recording - ASIO. You are going to have to get a dedicated audio recording interface, be it something simple like a 2-in, 2-out, or a 4,6,8,10+ channel interface, these are important because while you *can* record through your computer's built in audio, there is a high latency to it. Chances also are that if your sound chip really sucks, when you try to play over another track, the newly recorded track will be out of sync. Wonderful.

Also, bits, and sample rate.. wtf? Makes a huge difference though!

Most digital recording interfaces are 24bits, some even 32-bit. Your onboard audio may be 16-bit tops. That is 16 bits or 2 bytes of data for each sample your system records, that is, probably 44.1kHz. This is good enough to play back "cd-quality" audio, but not good enough for recording. why? the more bits you have, the more dynamic range you can record, the more information, the better, because after all, you're going to master it, apply EQ, etc, and the higher quality the recording, the btter the end-result will be, even after it's been mixed down to 44k and 16-bit audio, because the recording software will determine the best bits to keep, so to say, or use dithering which can make the audio seem more brilliant than it really is.

In a nutshell, you want at least a solid 24-bit / 96kHz interface to acheive good results. Try to avoid audio interfaces with mixing consoles built in, all you want is a solid audio interface with quality preamps, xlr inputs and/or balanced TRS inputs. Use a regular mixing console if you have one (assuming you're recording something like drums)

As others have described, firewire interfaces are very good. Firewire supports 400 or 800 megabits/sec which is to say, plenty of bandwidth for many digitized audio streams.

USB is a second-rate option in my opinion.

Lastly, PCI or PCIe cards, if you plan to use a dedicated PC for this, might as well find a PCI/PCIe interface, face it - nothing is going to be faster or more precise than something directly connected to your PCI bus. I personally use a M-Audio delta card, with a breakout box that has balanced TRC inputs/outputs. Supports 24/192 and sounds good.

These devices also handle the processing of the signal, and can provide nearly-zero latency, which is another reason sample rate is very important. The more samples you record (for example, 96kHz) the lower the latency. Why?

Latency is determined by the number of samples you record at once. A good device may be able to handle as little as 32 samples at a time, which means it has to do much more processing to keep the audio stream going, but that's fine.

32 samples at 44kHz will take twice as long to process as 32 samples at 96kHz - so by simply going with a highest possible sample rate, you've at least cut your latency in *half* which means you're entering *real time* territory.

If you wanted, you could apply vst plugins to the signal in real time and record the end result, however, I will personally recommend to *NEVER DO THAT*.

Do not apply compression or any other bullshit. Trust me, you'll have plenty of time to do that in software. If you have a hardware compressor, and you record from that, well, you can never restore the original waveform.

So far we have: Mics, Mixing Console, Audio Interface. If those 3 components are decent quality, you'll get decent results.

Finally, software.

Sony ACID - Basic, can support multi track recording, very simple to use program, it'll get the job done

Cakewalk SONAR, Good - full featured, very robust, awesome.

Pro tools - haven't used it, but it's probably the most popular DAW out there.

Using the software is up for you to learn, if you're a newbie, I'd go with acid because its cheap and easy to figure out and you can still get decent results.

Oh, and if you're recording a guitar processor, well, 10 times out of 10 micing a cabinet will sound best. Even if your box has "Cabinet emulation". Cabinet emulation is a good way to do cheap recording, otherwise your guitar will sound incredibly fizzy because none of the singal is being cut off since you're playing through full range speakers, not 12-inch speakers which roll off at 5-6khz!

FINALLY:

Drum micing - there are 10001 ways to mic a drum kit, i personally go with 2 overheads in a "x pattern" to pick up the kit, then a dedicated kick mic, and dedicated snare mic. I've mic'd a whole kit before, and if you can do so, go for it, but most drum mics really get in the frigging way.

If you can though, in addition to the simple setup, try to get a mic near the ride to pick up the ping, and one parallel to the hihats right at the point they meet, as long as you can tune the kick, snare, ride and hihat, your overheads will do a good enough job on the cymbals and other toms, it'll work good.

You dont need "drum mics". sure 57s or 58s on boom stands work VERY well.

HTH

[Diamondjimi]

but most drum mics really get in the frigging way.

Not if you know how to mix properly.....

[jhale667]

Not if you know how to mix properly.....

And as we've both indicated, the D6 emulation in Recabinet is essential to capturing the missing "chest thump" in virtual guitar-amp tracks. Haven't tried it yet, but imagining it works in the really real world too...

[Diamondjimi]

And as we've both indicated, the D6 emulation in Recabinet is essential to capturing the missing "chest thump" in virtual guitar-amp tracks. Haven't tried it yet, but imagining it works in the really real world too...

Damn straight!

[GAR]

I'm gonna recommend Cubase 5 Studio and let the insults fly from those who'd be wasting their time with it if they even knew how to use a real mic or cabinet..

[BigBadBrian]

Thanks to all for posting in this thread....keep the posts coming.

So how good is the Pro Tools M Box Pro? I don't want to buy a basic interface and want to upgrade six months down the road.

[GAR]

You pricks.. now I feel like writing new stuff and got my old cassettes out from storage. I'll figure this shit out!

Going to Hollywood today to look at this D.I. pod shit and assess which d.i. is the best scratch-pad writing tool for the buck, and start my own a/d xfers.

All I know is from all the live tutorials and demo's I've attended, Cubase is the easiest learning curve for both writing and recording in the digital realm, but Logic is best at fine-tuning and mastering even though Cubase has the weird pitch-correcting and autotune fucktions..

[GAR]

I don't want to buy a basic interface and want to upgrade six months down the road.

Friend of mine had the Mbox2 which goes for 299, I say "had" because he loaned it out and the "loanee" refuses to return either it, or the calls demanding its' return - so it must be pretty good.

It also comes with cheap software like Protools Limited Edition, which you can download anywhere free if you look anyways.. it works somewhat! Just ask Jay - he likes the cheap stuff alot.

[Etienne]

...Use a regular mixing console if you have one (assuming you're recording something like drums)...

@BigBadBrian

How do you plan to record your drums exactly?

[jhale667]

Just ask Jay - he likes the cheap stuff alot.

Said the library-posting-underpass-squatting douchebag with NO recording gear and a PLYWOOD guitar... You're pathetic, really. Go die in a fire.

[Jagermeister]

Said the library-posting-underpass-squatting douchebag with NO recording gear and a PLYWOOD guitar... You're pathetic, really. Go die in a fire.

Speaking of that. Have you seen the stringless toy guitar being advertised? I saw it last night but can't remember what they called it. Thought of GAR when I saw it though.

[chefcraig]

Speaking of that. Have you seen the stringless toy guitar being advertised? I saw it last night but can't remember what they called it.

The Perfect Gift For Those With No Gear Or Talent: Walgreens Sells Cardboard Guitars

[jhale667]

Speaking of that. Have you seen the stringless toy guitar being advertised? I saw it last night but can't remember what they called it. Thought of GAR when I saw it though.

Paper Jamz, I think they're called? Saw them at my local pharmacy...think they're around $9.99 at a Wal-Mart/crap-shop near you?

Yeah, he most likely sucks on one of those too...

[jhale667]

The Perfect Gift For Those With No Gear Or Talent: Walgreens Sells Cardboard Guitars

Now if anyone wanted to buy Senor Pitiful (or is he just a pitiful senior?) a Christmas present (he usually gets coal in his stocking - after sockf***er's had his way with it, that is) this year - you know where to look...

[Diamondjimi]

Speaking of that. Have you seen the stringless toy guitar being advertised? I saw it last night but can't remember what they called it. Thought of GAR when I saw it though.

The Perfect Gift For Those With No Gear Or Talent: Walgreens Sells Cardboard Guitars

4 minutes, Chef...

In all seriousness, your searching skills are appreciated by us lazy Bastards.

GARfail is simply trying to fit in by all the DAW and mic. talk. The only recording he's done is reruns of Different Strokes back in the 90's on a VCR he found at the curb. (The only piece of recording gear he's actually owned)....

Nobody cares, GAR. Stay the fuck out of Gear Street!

[GAR]

Anybody have one of those digital floorboard monstrosities?

I'm wondering what's the diff between a fifty-dollar Pod-thingy, and the big ones beside having a fake wah controller that doesn't sound very nasally, or wah-like?

This guy showed me his Pod X3 once, and I was impressed that he could get ballpark-reference sounds just for recording. So yesterday at GC Hollywood I noticed they got a used one they're asking 325.. so I know with my artists' discount I could probably have it for 250.

[GAR]

Said the library-posting-underpass-squatting douchebag with NO recording gear and a PLYWOOD guitar... You're pathetic, really. Go die in a fire.

Protools LE is a tinkertoy starter set, I'd expected you to have moved up to better by now.

[jhale667]

Protools LE is a tinkertoy starter set, I'd expected you to have moved up to better by now.

It's what anyone w/o a dedicated Pro Tools HD system uses, not like you'd know.

Tell ya what - when you move up past your old '60s close-and-play, or cassettes - THEN talk to me. Until you've proven you're even at the starting gate, much less can play your way out of a paper bag - then perhaps your opinion may hold the tiniest bit of merit. But at the moment it doesn't - so STFU.

[Diamondjimi]

So yesterday at GC Hollywood I noticed they got a used one they're asking 325.. so I know with my artists' discount I could probably have it for 250.

GC gives discounts to bullshit artist's?

I'm surprised they don't charge you $5 Stupid Tax, slap you in the cocksucker and escort your lying/thieving ass out the door..

Protools LE is a tinkertoy starter set, I'd expected you to have moved up to better by now.

It's what anyone w/o a dedicated Pro Tools HD system uses, not like you'd know.
.

[Mushroom]

My singer built a home studio in the basement and uses Cubase software set up for 16 tracks.

[Mushroom]

I have a pirate version of Cool Edit 2000 software that I simply used for editing music. This year I bought a Mac, and to be honest, I haven't tried to install the Cool Edit - not sure it would work. I'm ready to move on to something else but I'm overwhelmed by the choices. Any suggestions?

[Diamondjimi]

Started out with Cool Edit Pro (Now called Adobe Audition). I still use it for editing, but that's about it...

[GAR]

GC gives discounts to bullshit artist's?

I'm surprised they don't .. escort your lying/thieving ass out the door..

I didn't walk out of there with a pair of 16ft guitar cables this time -guess I'm losing my edge in my old age huh -

So who here uses their Soundcard as the interface, and who uses a dedicated one?

I'm thinking of going with a cheap mbox or dongle-thingy instead of that monstrosity board. My chick stubbed her toe on my folding keyboard stool today and bitched about it several times cuz it was at the edge of the bed.

Imagine the henhouse uproar when I lay THIS fucker in front of the TV and have her go stub her fuckin toes..



All she'd have to do is look at the thing, and the bitching will freely henceforth flow..

All I really need: L and R input to a FUCKING computer. I like the effects stuff idea, but I don't really need it.

[GAR]

.. and I do like Sesh's advice on firewire input thanks.

[jhale667]

GC gives discounts to bullshit artist's?

I'm surprised they don't charge you $5 Stupid Tax, slap you in the cocksucker and escort your lying/thieving ass out the door..

Trust me, they do. He's exactly the kind of pretentious fuckbag that when GC employees hear him say "I want my artist discount" his price immediately goes up...


Best line I ever pulled on someone back in the day who was being a douche, yelling "I KNOW you can do better on that price!!" told him (since at the time I could zero out anything *within reason* to make a deal fly up to a certain $ amount) "Dude, I can GIVE IT TO YOU if I want, but since you're being a dick..."

[Nitro Express]

Gar is into rehtro recording. His equipment is a old Radio Shack portable cassette recorder. He currently is using the on board microphone because he's saving up to buy a remote microphone at the thrift store. His main technical problem is battery drain because the cardboard box he lives in doesn't have electricity. Too bad those portable solar panels are so expensive.

[GAR]

Best line I ever pulled on someone back in the day who was being a douche, yelling "I KNOW you can do better on that price!!" told him (since at the time I could zero out anything *within reason* to make a deal fly up to a certain $ amount) "Dude, I can GIVE IT TO YOU if I want, but since you're being a dick..."

I think I had two Diva's like that fired by personally going upstairs to Wiederman. Did you know this guy back in 06 who was bald and about 45, gray but balding, glasses and a lot of facial piercings and poseur tattoos - head like an encyclopedia for gear but the tact of a dipshit? His fate was one Gar casualty, because I don't give abuse out in business so I sure as hell don't need to take it from some minimum-wage earning piercy motherfucker like that!

[GAR]

Too bad those portable solar panels are so expensive.

I feel so sad for Caltrans' missing equipment. Really. Not MY fault they just leave shit on the side of the road!