The Recording Thread

[jhale667]

BBB setup with a Mackie Onyx 1620i (8 Mic-Pres / Analog Monitoring / Firewire Interface)

http://www.mackie.com/products/onyx1620i/

What do you think, people?

Nice, if you need that big a board at home...certainly wouldn't turn it down...

[GAR]

How about, BESIDES THE AFOREMENTIONED FACT THAT IT'S THE INDUSTRY STANDARD, YOU IDIOT

Logic has taken half of a previously-80% share from Protools in the Mac market since 2005.

Quit living like it's still 1997 n'shit get your facts straight.

[Diamondjimi]

Why are you still here, shitting all over Gear Street???

Fuck off and eat a gun!

[jhale667]

FUCK your market share bullshit GARfail! You don't play, you don't own guitar gear, much less recording gear, so do us all a favor:

STFU and GTFO!

[jhale667]

BACK ON TOPIC...

You may find this helpful, BBB...

Set Up Recording Studio Using Pro Tools

Author: David Franz
Lesson description

Want to produce your own music or someone else's music at home, but don't know where to begin? Producer, musician, and online instructor David Franz shows you how to begin with a lesson on how to set up your home studio.

http://www.berkleeshares.com/product...udio_pro_tools

[Nitro Express]

I think the best approach to recording is to keep it simple and try and get it perfect on the first take. Use good microphones, have the right room to record in, headphones seem to be the way to go instead of monitors, and place the microphones correctly. More important is the content of what you are recording. If the music is shit nothing in the mix can help it. You can't polish a turd. Great songs well played can make up for less than ideal recording. So don't diddle it to death, get a pretty good copy down, polish it a bit and be happy. Too many musicians fuck it up with over diddling in the studio and then they can't play it live.

If anything digital tools have made recording cheaper, more accessable for the average person, and is better for editing. Analog still sounds better.

[Jagermeister]

I think the best approach to recording is to keep it simple and try and get it perfect on the first take. Use good microphones, have the right room to record in, headphones seem to be the way to go instead of monitors, and place the microphones correctly. More important is the content of what you are recording. If the music is shit nothing in the mix can help it. You can't polish a turd. Great songs well played can make up for less than ideal recording. So don't diddle it to death, get a pretty good copy down, polish it a bit and be happy. Too many musicians fuck it up with over diddling in the studio and then they can't play it live.

If anything digital tools have made recording cheaper, more accessable for the average person, and is better for editing. Analog still sounds better.

I keep it real simple. I use my lap top, a cheap plug in mic and Nero Ultra. I bought an old reel to reel recorder but I never used it. It's for sale if anyone is interested.

[GAR]

Analog still sounds better.

True, you can't "polish a turd" but let me just say something on that, having myself done alot of polishing:

1. To do what you can do these days now, in automating moves like merges, fades, basically anything you needed two or sometimes three pairs of hands on the board for, with one mouseclick, is amazing and I'll take functionality over sound quality any day. Most of what I've done.. dunno about you guys, but working alone has always been for songwriting purposes.

2. Working alone "polishing turds" in your offtime is GREAT because it teaches you many levels of sound engineering theory and technique when all one really expects to get out of any of it is: demo'ing their songs together.

3. Working alone is basically free, aside from software costs (usually under $250) but prepares you on your way to someday... working with analogue? I always expected to work empirically toward that goal myself, however AGFA, BASF, Scotch 3M and (Taiyo Uden-TDK?) are nearly done phasing out production of tape. In fact, look at the cost of replacement cartridges for Echoplexes now on Ebay it's rediculous. Everyone knows analogue tape is in its' sunset hours but I agree there's nothing better sounding than tape. It's physics 101..

4. "Too many musicians fuck it up with over diddling in the studio and then they can't play it live." True but I'd counter that with, at the very least it enables new music of any kind to get out. Maybe it's given us our share of Linkin Parks, Limp Bizkits and Chemical Romances, but it's also brought us the Taylor Swifts out there who nobody would waste a second glance.

I think digital recording is a great development tool, and so what if some sucky acts rise to prominence momentarily out of using it, when they can't really play? The germ of the song idea rules over all anyways.

[GAR]

I bought an old reel to reel recorder but I never used it. It's for sale if anyone is interested.

Have you tried using it as a mic preamp, i have a few both solid-state and tube.. aside from using them like a pedal to warm the gain up on the input they're going to be obsolete.

[Seshmeister]

[BigBadBrian]

BACK ON TOPIC...

You may find this helpful, BBB...

Set Up Recording Studio Using Pro Tools

Author: David Franz
Lesson description

Want to produce your own music or someone else's music at home, but don't know where to begin? Producer, musician, and online instructor David Franz shows you how to begin with a lesson on how to set up your home studio.

http://www.berkleeshares.com/product...udio_pro_tools

Good...thank you!!!

What do you guys know about Presonus? Is that brand any good?

[Diamondjimi]

Presonus makes great stuff. Very solid. I'm using the Firestudio interface. Linked via Lightpipe with the Presonus Digimax FS

[GAR]

Presonus pre's are warm and lush, not meaty but will do just fine and the hardware is in a decent price range.

UNLIKE the Event products of days past like the Echo and Darla cards and dac boxes.. I hope we never see multi-input dac-boxes in the $1000+ range ever again.. I don't see a reason for that anymore unless what?

512K sampling rate?!?! 1meg, 2 meg, 8 meg etc? Megabyte-range sampling-rates that can calculate the "missing" bottom end that drives everyone's claims of digital's harshness and briteness.. is never going to happen until PLAYBACK hardware like iPods and car radios have the same capacity.

- so that's why I conclude there's not much gonna happen in advancement in the way of digital pre's and dac-boxes. Presonus would be a good choice for Brian.

[Diamondjimi]

Presonus pre's are warm and lush, not meaty but will do just fine and the hardware is in a decent price range.
.

True, but seriously. Hopw the fuck would you know?

[GAR]

Presonus has been around longer than you have..

[Diamondjimi]

[jhale667]

[chefcraig]

Remarkably enough, using root beer or wine instead of tap water in a bong brings unexpectedly delightful results.

[Seshmeister]

One of the few good lines Dennis Leary had that he didn't steal off Bill Hicks was 'I gave up smoking dope because I got sick of having to build things'.

[GAR]

Too bad he never picked up music.

[chefcraig]

One of the few good lines Dennis Leary had that he didn't steal off Bill Hicks was 'I gave up smoking dope because I got sick of having to build things'.

We truly are living in hell while on Earth. How else to explain why imbeciles possessing not even a thimble full of the talent of a guy like Hicks (and have resorted to ripping off his entire act lock, stock and barrel) have managed to survive and in some cases flourish, while the man himself rots in the dirt and if not totally forgotten, is rarely even mentioned?

[Seshmeister]

Well Hicks is worshipped in comedian circles and had a movie of his life made last year but yeah he died ridiculously young.

Considering how angry he got about the first Gulf War though, I have to think if he hadn't went when he did he would have dropped dead with a stroke about the second.

[GAR]

Hicks would have chosen Apogee ONE over Presonus, for simplicity's sake.

If you need more inputs than L and R, get an old Tascam board like an M-series with 8 or more channels, you'll have onboard-everything (eq, buss, VU, subs etc) for recording live, for around $75 bucks. Plus, the M-series had warm EQ's with phantom power built-in for mics. Sometimes, you need that. I never did with my $4 dollar Radio Shack cardiod mics.. but I dig grass.

Zappa mounted his boards on the wall, basically set levels and left it alone out of the way. That's how I'd do it.

Get a separate board, get a ONE unit, or the stereo Apogee unit the One is based on alone.

[Seshmeister]

I'm looking at maybe getting one of these Yamaha things.

A bit expensive though.

Philocast HD: Yamaha 01x Review from Jason Burns on Vimeo.

[GAR]

One thing I've experienced with both Yamaha's system, and Roland's (edirol I think it was) is initially they boast alot of features, they've worked alot of proprietary standards they think everyone will be so amazed that the industry will turn on a dime to follow, but then that's as far as it gets.

Like Roland's GS-extended midi set spec came out with their Rap-10 4-chan soundcard sounded phenomenal, but no other mfrs wanted to sign on because they'd then have to sign on with Roland to license an expanded library and buy the chips with the stored-set in 'em. That spec died.

I have a hard time with Yamaha-anything.. if you're going to spend alot of time from friends and family locked away studying recording formats that won't be around in 5 years kinda defeats the purpose.

This is why I'd prefer to spend a little more on a top-rated / industry standard than get locked into tracks that I can't export to future interfaces.

[Seshmeister]

I'm fed up fucking around trying to get things to work rather than actually playing.

I like the idea that the Yamaha stuff is integrated with the software, if it's proprietary that makes no difference to me as long as I can get a WAV or MP3 mix out of it at the end.

When we go into a proper studio we will rerecord the drum tracks with an acoustic kit so everything else will need to be redone anyway.

[Diamondjimi]

Zappa mounted his boards on the wall, basically set levels and left it alone out of the way.

That's funny, right there.

Do you stay up all night dreaming this shit up?

Post a link, Bitch!

[Etienne]

Would it be a good idea to see a Presonus Digimax FS (8 Mic-Pres) as an Expansion to a Digidesign 003? Is it possible via Adat-Optical-Link? 96kHz?

[GAR]

That's funny, right there.

Do you stay up all night dreaming this shit up?

Post a link, Bitch!

Go find it yourself, Googleboy.

[GAR]

Would it be a good idea to see a Presonus Digimax FS (8 Mic-Pres) as an Expansion to a Digidesign 003? Is it possible via Adat-Optical-Link? 96kHz?

Presonus makes good units but do you need 8 real-time inputs?

[Diamondjimi]

Would it be a good idea to see a Presonus Digimax FS (8 Mic-Pres) as an Expansion to a Digidesign 003? Is it possible via Adat-Optical-Link? 96kHz?

Absolutely. The more inputs the better. As for linking, Lightpipe would be optimal if the 003 also has this option...

[jhale667]

Absolutely. The more inputs the better. As for linking, Lightpipe would be optimal if the 003 also has this option...

http://www3.digidesign.com/index.cfm...028&langid=100

[GAR]

$1200 msrp? Exsqueeze me for being a cheap Scot but what would this do any differently than a 2-input dacbox 1000 bux less if used with an old Tascam mixer?

I mean, you do realize each additional input on that thing is doing computational wav processing right.. and if you only ever use 1 or 2 channels at a time songwriting, riffing or making demos I don't see the need - and I'm the guy that's built a few studios so pardon my ignorance if this is some Amazing Wonderbox that does something revolutionary I hadn't been aware of.

I dont' claim to know everything out there now, been out of the loop about 5 years now in tech stuff, but our last studio did have several 888's - which that appears to be a mere update of - and was also 8 input realtime dac's..

[Etienne]

Presonus makes good units but do you need 8 real-time inputs?

Drums: 6 or more Mic-Pres http://homerecording.about.com/od/re...rdingdrums.htm
Drums: 4 Mic-Pres (Glyn Johns Method) http://homerecording.about.com/od/re...glyn_johns.htm

[Diamondjimi]

$1200 msrp? Exsqueeze me for being a cheap Scot but what would this do any differently than a 2-input dacbox 1000 bux less if used with an old Tascam mixer?

I mean, you do realize each additional input on that thing is doing computational wav processing right.. and if you only ever use 1 or 2 channels at a time songwriting, riffing or making demos I don't see the need - and I'm the guy that's built a few studios so pardon my ignorance if this is some Amazing Wonderbox that does something revolutionary I hadn't been aware of.

I dont' claim to know everything out there now, been out of the loop about 5 years now in tech stuff, but our last studio did have several 888's - which that appears to be a mere update of - and was also 8 input realtime dac's..

Shut the fuck up, Stupid!

Sweeping up drywall dust and fetching coffee's (via temp service ) does not make you a studio builder...

You need to realize, Mensa, that most people don't record their demos into their cell phone like yourself. So stop talkin shit about you "building" studios and yapping on about 2 inputs is ALL one needs for a home studio....

True you can get away with two, but any more tan 2 mics are needed for a session... you're fucked.

It's all about the options...

[Etienne]

Let's talk about A/D...D/A-Latency. Are you drummers here very sensitive concerning digital monitoring? Do you prefer an analog record/mixing-board for monitoring? Is it a must for you?

[jhale667]

Shut the fuck up, Stupid!

Sweeping up drywall dust and fetching coffee's (via temp service ) does not make you a studio builder...

You need to realize, Mensa, that most people don't record their demos into their cell phone like yourself. So stop talkin shit about you "building" studios and yapping on about 2 inputs is ALL one needs for a home studio....

True you can get away with two, but any more tan 2 mics are needed for a session... you're fucked.

It's all about the options...

Exactly. My Mbox II is fine for the house, but if/when I want to do live drums I either have to A ) Do them in a pro $tudio with Pro Tools HD and multiple inputs to fully mic the kit and room, or B ) Do a sub-mix off the same or similar mic-setup w/a normal board in a rehearsal studio and be stuck with the resulting stereo drum track (better hope you like what you and/or your drummer come up with the 1st time) that would be difficult to tweak later...

And though I've had admittedly limited experience trading PT files with people so far, what I got from someone with HD is a file that I can open in LE and add tracks to, but I can't open or manipulate any of the existing tracks (apart from their levels) w/ LE.

Perhaps GAyR should consider starting with something like Pro Tools bargain-basement-but-still-cool SE platform...

http://gadgetwise.blogs.nytimes.com/...twt=gadgetwise

But can you install it on the computer at the library?

[jhale667]

Remarkably enough, using root beer or wine instead of tap water in a bong brings unexpectedly delightful results.

Two words: Apple. Juice.

[GAR]

Etienne's issue is teh exact point I'm trying to pose for comment:

Passive mixers do no processing whatsoever, however every channel on these 8-dac units (and there are several non-Avid ones now) is churning data in real-time while recording.

I'm wondering if there's a disadvantage to that, i.e. popping, clicking, hard-drive access noise inducement, skipping and other such processing maladies were you WONT find that with a passive board.. and recently at a freinds' place, he had not one mixer but two, and then the multi-IO dacbox. So even he's thinking like I was in his setup..

But I don't know if I want to fully mic a kit up one on every skin.. the lost dynamic reaction with that kind of setup brings me to question such ideas where it's not all that necessary.

[Etienne]

For every signal we want to manipulate separately and finally mixdown with the others digitally in the DAW (Digital Audio Workstation), we need a physical ADC (Analog Digital Converter).