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Thread: Study Verifies That There Is No Value In Any Flu Vaccine

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    Study Verifies That There Is No Value In Any Flu Vaccine

    Linkola

    A remarkable study published in the Cochrane Libary found no evidence of benefit for influenza vaccinations and also noted that the vast majority of trials were inadequate.

    The authors stated that the only ones showing benefit were industry-funded. They also pointed out that the industry-funded studies were more likely to be published in the most prestigious journals…and one more thing: They found cases of severe harm caused by the vaccines, in spite of inadequate reporting of adverse effects.

    The study, “Vaccines for preventing influenza in healthy adults”, is damning of the entire pharmaceutical industry and its minions, the drug testing industry and the medical system that relies on them.

    In the usual manner of understatement, the authors concluded:

    The results of this review seem to discourage the utilisation of vaccination against influenza in healthy adults as a routine public health measure. As healthy adults have a low risk of complications due to respiratory disease, the use of the vaccine may be only advised as an individual protection measure against symptoms in specific cases.


    The Study

    The authors attempted to find and investigate every study that has evaluated the effects of flu vaccines in healthy adults aged 18-65. To this end, they “searched Cochrane Central Register of Controlled Trials (CENTRAL) (The Cochrane Library, 2010, issue 2), MEDLINE (January 1966 to June 2010) and EMBASE (1990 to June 2010).” They included 50 reports. Forty of them were clinical trials adding up to over 70,000 people. Two reported only on harmful effects and were not included in this study.

    Studies of all types of influenza vaccines were included: live, attenuated, and killed – or fractions of killed – vaccines.

    The primary outcomes they looked for were numbers and seriousness of influenza and influenza-like illnesses. They also looked at the number and seriousness of harms from the vaccines. The authors attempted to collect missing data by writing to the authors. They describe the response as “disappointing”. In the end, they included 50 studies and refused to use 92, mostly because of highly significant flaws, such as using inappropriate controls, not being randomly controlled trials, inconsistencies in data presented, lack of study design, unclear definitions, poor reporting, lack of crude data, and lack of placebo.

    The authors found that vaccines administered parenterally, that is, outside the digestive tract, usually meaning by injection. reduced influenza-like symptoms by 4%. They found no evidence that vaccination prevents viral transmission! (There goes the whole herd immunity argument!) They also found no evidence that they prevent complications, either.

    They attempted to ascertain the degree of complications, and though they did report on some, most of the studies simply did not address the issue or did so inadequately.

    Five Myths to Keep in Mind About Flu Vaccines

    Myth 1: The Flu Shot is very effective.
    Statistically, you are less likely to get the flu if you haven’t had a flu vaccine. A BCTV reporter in Vancouver, commenting on the overload in BC emergency rooms, said that out of 32 people who had received a flu shot, 30 got the flu.

    Myth 2: The Flu Shot has a high success rate.
    This is a vaccine that only has a 6.25% success rate. This is a pretty big under-achievement, considering that the average reaction to placebo injections of distilled water is 30%.

    Myth 3: The Flu Shot is safe.
    Hugh Fudenberg MD, who is the world’s leading immunogeneticist, says that if a person had 5 flu vaccinations between 1970 and 1980 he/she is 10 times more likely to get Alzheimer’s Disease than if he/she had only one or two shots. Fudenberg said that this was because of the aluminum and mercury, which almost every flu vaccine contains. The gradual accumulation of aluminum and mercury in the brain leads to cognitive dysfunction.

    Myth 4: There are no harmful ingredients in vaccinations.
    Flu vaccines consist primarily of 3 categories of ingredients. First there are viruses and cultured bacteria. The second ingredient is the way in which they can be cultivated. This includes aborted human fetal cells, chick embryos, pig blood, monkey kidney tissue, cowpox pus, and calf serum, and all of these foreign proteins get injected straight into your bloodstream. A bit repulsive just thinking about it, isn’t it? The flu shot also contains neutralizers, stabilizers, carrying agents and preservatives such as mercury, aluminum, and formaldehyde. Formaldehyde is something that is used for embalming the dead and is known to cause cancer. There is no amount of formaldehyde considered safe when injected into a living organism.

    Myth 5: The Flu Shot works.
    The flu shot could actually weaken your immune system and make you more likely to catch this virus. It is has absolutely no value and should probably be avoided for your own safety. Not only is it loaded with toxic chemicals, but many people actually get the flu shortly after getting the shot, because it weakens their immune system instead of making it stronger like it is claimed to do.

    Dr. Viera Scheibner, arguably one of the world’s most respected scientists and scholars on vaccine medical data stated from her research and writings on vaccine science and history:: “Ever since the turn of the (last) century, medical journals published dozens and dozens of articles demonstrating that injecting vaccines (can) cause anaphylaxis, meaning harmful, inappropriate immunological responses, which is also called sensitization. (This) increase(s) susceptibility to the disease which the vaccine is supposed to prevent, and to a host of related and other unrelated infections.”

    “We see it in vaccinated children within days, within two or three weeks. (Most of them) develop runny noses, ear infections, pneumonitis, (and) bronchiolitis. It is only a matter of degrees, which indicates immuno-suppression, (not immunity). It indicates the opposite. So I never use the word immunization because that is false advertising. It implies that vaccines immunize, which they don’t. The correct term is either vaccination or sensitization.”

    In addition, “Vaccines (can) damage internal organs, particularly the pancreas,” so everyone vaccinated, including for seasonal flu, is vulnerable to contracting severe “autoimmune diseases like diabetes,” Addison’s Disease, Arthritis, Asthma, Guillian-Barre Syndrome, Hepatitis, Lou Gehrig’s Disease, Lupus, Multiple Sclerosis, Osteoporosis, Polio, and dozens of others.

    Some can kill. Others produce a lifetime of disability and pain because autoimmune disease happens when the “body attacks itself,” or more accurately “is attacked” by an unhealthy lifestyle, stress, and various harmful ingestible substances; that is, toxins in drugs, food, air, water, and other liquids. According to immunologist, Dr. Jesse Stoff, human health is compromised four ways:

    – by poor nutrition;
    – man-made environmental toxins;
    – disease-causing organisms and their toxins; and
    – immune system trauma from factors like x-ray radiation and stress.

    Other factors include a lack of sleep and exercise, smoking, heavy alcohol consumption, and various excesses that throw the body out of balance, making it susceptible to a host of debilitating illnesses.

    Conclusions

    The Cochrane study found very little evidence to support even a small improvement in time off work. Even that finding needs to be put into the context of industry influence. The authors wrote:

    This review includes 15 out of 36 trials funded by industry (four had no funding declaration). An earlier systematic review of 274 influenza vaccine studies published up to 2007 found industry funded studies were published in more prestigious journals and cited more than other studies independently from methodological quality and size. Studies funded from public sources were significantly less likely to report conclusions favorable to the vaccines. The review showed that reliable evidence on influenza vaccines is thin but there is evidence of widespread manipulation of conclusions and spurious notoriety of the studies. The content and conclusions of this review should be interpreted in light of this finding.


    “…industry funded studies were published in more prestigious journals and cited more than other studies…”

    “…reliable evidence on influenza vaccines is thin…”

    “…there is evidence of widespread manipulation of conclusions…”

    Most assuredly, the “content and conclusions of this review should be interpreted in light of this finding”!

    Even without taking into account the shoddiness of the studies in general, the authors were still hard put to find any benefit of any sort for influenza vaccinations in healthy people. At best, they found a small decrease in number of days off work. They did not find that the vaccinations had any benefit whatsoever in complications or mortality.

    In spite of the limited reporting on adverse effects, the authors did find some, including 1.6 Guillain-Barré cases per million.

    The question that must be asked is: How can influenza vaccinations be justified when there is virtually no benefit—not even the oft-cited dubious herd-immunity—and cases of severe harm are documented, in spite of disgustingly limited reporting of adverse effects?

    It is long past time to end the travesty of jabbing adults and children without a shred of evidence showing real benefit in spite of trying to find it, and with evidence of crippling harm, in spite of trying to mask it.


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    I rarely get sick. If you just eat a balanced diet, wash your hands, keep your fingers out of your nose and mouth, get plenty of vitamin C and D, get proper sleep amounts, lower your stress, and get some exercise. You will be healthier. One reason people get sick in the winter is they don't get enough sunlight and their vitamin D level goes down which is important to keep vitamin D levels up.

    I haven't had the flu at all in five years and rarely get colds.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELVIS View Post
    Linkola

    Dr. Viera Scheibner, arguably one of the world’s most respected scientists and scholars on vaccine medical data stated from her research and writings on vaccine science and history:: “Ever since the turn of the (last) century, medical journals published dozens and dozens of articles demonstrating that injecting vaccines (can) cause anaphylaxis, meaning harmful, inappropriate immunological responses, which is also called sensitization. (This) increase(s) susceptibility to the disease which the vaccine is supposed to prevent, and to a host of related and other unrelated infections.”
    I smell a lot of BS in this article.

    For a start this woman cited as the worlds leading expert is a fucking retired geologist!!!

    The scare story shit about there being dangerous ingredients in flu jabs has been debunked over and over.

    Don't have time to check the rest at the moment.
    Last edited by Seshmeister; 12-10-2010 at 11:19 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Express View Post
    I rarely get sick. If you just eat a balanced diet, wash your hands, keep your fingers out of your nose and mouth, get plenty of vitamin C and D, get proper sleep amounts, lower your stress, and get some exercise. You will be healthier.
    Or you may get a tumour in your chest and die within 6 months.

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    Wow that website you got this from is utter non scientific crap, you would be better going to strangeoldwisewomaninthewoods.com for your medical advice.

    I really worry about you working in healthcare Elvis, I hope you have set up a business in something else.

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    <object width="853" height="505"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/HMGIbOGu8q0?fs=1&amp;hl=en_GB&amp;color1=0x402061& amp;color2=0x9461ca"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/HMGIbOGu8q0?fs=1&amp;hl=en_GB&amp;color1=0x402061& amp;color2=0x9461ca" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="853" height="505"></embed></object>

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    A word about the author

    Dave Mihalovic is a Naturopathic Doctor who specializes in vaccine research, cancer prevention and a natural approach to treatment.
    In other words Dave is NOT a doctor and practices non evidence based nonsense which is actually banned in some US States and restricted in many others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Express View Post
    I rarely get sick. If you just eat a balanced diet, wash your hands, keep your fingers out of your nose and mouth, get plenty of vitamin C and D, get proper sleep amounts, lower your stress, and get some exercise. You will be healthier. One reason people get sick in the winter is they don't get enough sunlight and their vitamin D level goes down which is important to keep vitamin D levels up.

    I haven't had the flu at all in five years and rarely get colds.
    but it's easier to never learn anything and just get angry at opposing viewpoints from unqualified people on a website.
    Here come the crabs to downplay your success in favor of shooting up with antifreeze , mercury , and last year's strain.

    (this post has nothing to do with Oprah, who I've never seen, don't bring her up)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    I really worry about you working in healthcare Elvis, I hope you have set up a business in something else.
    Yep, 20 years is more than enough...

    It's nothing but glorified secreterial work where nothing but compliance is rewarded...

    I'm doing custom wood work and fabrication and I'm doing well for just starting out...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    Wow that website you got this from is utter non scientific crap, you would be better going to strangeoldwisewomaninthewoods.com for your medical advice.

    I really worry about you working in healthcare Elvis, I hope you have set up a business in something else.
    Nobody gets out alive Sesh. I'm having fun. Are you?

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    We are just bags of water living in a world full of sharp corners. One day you are going to get popped.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    A word about the author



    In other words Dave is NOT a doctor and practices non evidence based nonsense which is actually banned in some US States and restricted in many others.
    Just out of curiousity, what are your credentials Sesh?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candy Girl View Post
    Just out of curiousity, what are your credentials Sesh?
    Sesh is a dyed in the wool socialist that probably never had to meet a payroll or employed anyone in his life. He believes the average person is too stupid to take care of themselves and needs academics and elites to regulate and run society. Such people love government checks but rarely think where that money actually comes from. They hate the rich but fail to realize it's rich bankers who are behind the socialist agenda and support it because it eliminates competition and concentrates power into a few people they own. This is why rich capitalists like George Soros back socialism. It's great for the fat cats who control it behind the scenes and eliminates any new comers because they can't get a business off the ground due to all the regulations and taxes. Everyone becomes a slave dependent on the government for everything. If corporations are involved in this monopoly, it's fascism but that's just a technicality.

    Socialists all sound the same and give the same answers. If your medical data comes from the World Health Organization they will lap it up but if it comes from somewhere else it's shit.

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    Of course Elvis is going to be labeled as some cousin screwing redneck who thumps the bible. His belief in Jesus makes him superstitious and because he doesn't trust the status quo or questioning things makes him an outdated whack job. Of course he is going to be accused of being a witch doctor. He doesn't trust the United Nations approved health program and questions it.

    Watch for it. Especially today. You will see anyone who doesn't tow the socialist line slammed for being a paranoid, religious, whack job. Then they will point to the rich being the source for all the world's problems failing to see it's the mega rich who finance the socialist agenda. This has been the drill for the last 40 years. I saw it plenty going through college. It's too obvious.

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    Fuck the Flushot! What a bunch of crap because people are so afraid to get sick. It "may be" good for the elderly and maybe children, but... But... I know parents with children who get the flu shot every year and the family still gets sick. I know people who get flu shots and get sick the week after the shot! I have not had a flu shot in over 30 years, and I rarely get sick. Just a snivveling runny nose or sore throat for a couple of days. I puke only after 12 beers or 6 margaritas, and even that is fun

    Maybe the doctors should study ME. And they will tell you what Nitro said above: If you just eat a balanced diet, wash your hands, keep your fingers out of your nose and mouth, get plenty of vitamin C and D, get proper sleep amounts, lower your stress, and get some exercise. You will be healthier. One reason people get sick in the winter is they don't get enough sunlight and their vitamin D level goes down which is important to keep vitamin D levels up.
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    Elvis' belief in Jesus isn't relevant to this thread. His experience as a nurse is though. I'm sure he's probably given a few flu shots even if he hasn't taken any himself.

    As far as avoiding the flu by naturally boosting the immune system, all I can say is that it works for me. Flu is a definite rarity for me, and on the occasion that I do get it, the first thing I would reach for is some kind of tea that contains Chinese Star Anise.

    How do I know it works? Well besides my own experience, there's the fact that the pharmecutical ridiculously overpriced drug Tamiflu is made from that very substance.

    As Sesh is fond of saying, "You know what they call natural medicine that works? Medicine." So I'll pay a couple bucks for a box of tea, rather than a shitload of money for a bottle of pills.

    (Do NOT use Japanese Star Anise though. It has different properties than the Chinese variety and some of them are toxic to humans)




    Either of these should work, and should be easy enough to find in any grocery store.
    Last edited by FORD; 12-10-2010 at 04:58 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mushroom View Post
    Fuck the Flushot! What a bunch of crap because people are so afraid to get sick. It "may be" good for the elderly and maybe children, but... But... I know parents with children who get the flu shot every year and the family still gets sick. I know people who get flu shots and get sick the week after the shot! I have not had a flu shot in over 30 years, and I rarely get sick. Just a snivveling runny nose or sore throat for a couple of days. I puke only after 12 beers or 6 margaritas, and even that is fun

    Maybe the doctors should study ME. And they will tell you what Nitro said above: If you just eat a balanced diet, wash your hands, keep your fingers out of your nose and mouth, get plenty of vitamin C and D, get proper sleep amounts, lower your stress, and get some exercise. You will be healthier. One reason people get sick in the winter is they don't get enough sunlight and their vitamin D level goes down which is important to keep vitamin D levels up.
    Great post but it's vitamin D3.

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    I use to be against the flu shot untill I had kids. I don't want them to get that shit and if the shot helps them not get it, great. We actually have been doing the nasal mist shit and have had no issues in years. Actually they say the mist is better because it has attenuated live virus in it. (sceery huh). This and washing your hands on a regular basis will help you not get it. Obviously this is a virus. If you get it you will get sick. Some more so than other but I promise you you will wish you were dead for at least a week. I rarely get sick and hate it when I do and I am very afraid of the flu. Had it twice in my life and don't want it again.

    Wash your hands kiddos. I wouldn't wish the flu on jhale.


    ?


    No No I wouldn't
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Express View Post

    Socialists all sound the same and give the same answers. If your medical data comes from the World Health Organization they will lap it up but if it comes from somewhere else it's shit.
    Now that's bullshit. I get called a "socialist" by some right winger or another pretty much on a daily basis, and nobody distrusts corporate medicine more than I do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FORD View Post
    Now that's bullshit. I get called a "socialist" by some right winger or another pretty much on a daily basis, and nobody distrusts corporate medicine more than I do.
    What we have now is fascist medicine. The government is very much involved with it as is the UN. Your health care law made this the reality. Enjoy!

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    You are either a capitalist or a socialist. You can't be both. As far as corporations go, corporate charters used to be issued by the state and they were temporary. Once you have a monopoly of corporations it is no longer capitalism because the free market can no longer function. If the government sides with the free market it protects capitalism, if it sides with corporate monopolies, it's fascism and this is where most the world is today including the US. I want to go back to capitalism. Socialism only works in small populations full of perfect people. If one person cheats the system, it's a failure. It has existed but it tends to morph into fascism or communism. Such dictatorships love sell a socialist agenda and even put the word socialist in their party and country tittles.

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    MY health care law?

    Hell no. MY health care law was the Kucinich-Conyers HR676. Or the Ted Kennedy Medicare for All act of 2007. Those were the bills I supported. My "compromise" position was the full public option, competing with corporate insurance, and forcing it to clean up its act, as advocated by the man who should have been our President in January 2005.

    <----- Yeah, that guy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FORD View Post
    Elvis' belief in Jesus isn't relevant to this thread. His experience as a nurse is though. I'm sure he's probably given a few flu shots even if he hasn't taken any himself.

    As far as avoiding the flu by naturally boosting the immune system, all I can say is that it works for me. Flu is a definite rarity for me, and on the occasion that I do get it, the first thing I would reach for is some kind of tea that contains Chinese Star Anise.

    How do I know it works? Well besides my own experience, there's the fact that the pharmecutical ridiculously overpriced drug Tamiflu is made from that very substance.

    As Sesh is fond of saying, "You know what they call natural medicine that works? Medicine." So I'll pay a couple bucks for a box of tea, rather than a shitload of money for a bottle of pills.

    (Do NOT use Japanese Star Anise though. It has different properties than the Chinese variety and some of them are toxic to humans)




    Either of these should work, and should be easy enough to find in any grocery store.
    Teas made available by the free market by small companies. Celestial Seasonings was started by a bunch of hippies. Probably Democrats as well but they came out with products people wanted and sold them on the free market. It's wonderful. They create jobs, bring money into their local area, and provide a product that helps people feel better.

    The problem is when the makers of Tamiflu have the Federal Drug Administration put the tea makers out of business on the premise that the tea does not meet the proper federal regulations. Kiss a lot of the products we enjoy good bye if the current shit going on continues. Sound extreme?

    If you said the government would be feeling up my daughters at the airport 15 years ago I would say you were nuts. I cringe to think what's next.
    Last edited by Nitro Express; 12-10-2010 at 06:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FORD View Post
    MY health care law?

    Hell no. MY health care law was the Kucinich-Conyers HR676. Or the Ted Kennedy Medicare for All act of 2007. Those were the bills I supported. My "compromise" position was the full public option, competing with corporate insurance, and forcing it to clean up its act, as advocated by the man who should have been our President in January 2005.

    <----- Yeah, that guy.
    You were after a monopoly breaker. In my opinion a better way to do that is allow health insurance to be purchased across state lines. The government plan will always become the dominant player because the government can print money through the Federal Reserve system and private companies can't. You bring the prices down by increasing competition just like any other industry. The government is just too damn corrupt to be a monopoly breaker.

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    I have not gotten a single flu shot since...I can remember. I take uncaria tomentosa (otherwise known as Cat's Claw) every day. It does stop illness in my system. On more than one occasion I have come down with a cold or some kind of flu-like crap. I have just immediately upped my intake, and within a few hours I am fine. May not work for any of you peeps, but I know what works for me.

    I think that article is a load of crap.

    Sources:

    gaia-health.com
    rense.com
    nutralegacy.com

    Rense.com? I do find stuff there that is valid, but usually stuff that is posted there regarding medical issues is a lot of crap which, like this article, is written by people who are not even doctors or even close. OMIGAWD YOU'RE GONNA DIE!!!!! Give me a fucking break.

    Everyone I know who has gotten a flu shot has ended up with the flu, though. Funny. I have not had a flu shot, and in over 30 years I have got the flu only once or twice.
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    If you want to know what's wrong with selling insurance across state lines, take a look at the envelope you mail your credit card payment in.

    Odds are the address is either Delaware or South Dakota. Are those banks actually based in those states? Hell no. But the laws most favorable to that corporate interest (no usury laws, in this case) ARE in those states, so they put their credit department there in order to charge ridiculous interest and fees. The insurance industry wants to do exactly the same thing, which is why they are lobbying heavily for this.

    At least credit cards aren't mandatory. Arguably a necessary evil, but there's no law (not now and not in 2014) that says you MUST have one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThrillsNSpills View Post
    but it's easier to never learn anything and just get angry at opposing viewpoints from unqualified people on a website.
    Here come the crabs to downplay your success in favor of shooting up with antifreeze , mercury , and last year's strain.
    ...
    A rather similar argument employed by Creationists, er, 'Intelligent Designers' in their fundamentally anti-science campaign against evolution...
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    Quote Originally Posted by FORD View Post
    If you want to know what's wrong with selling insurance across state lines, take a look at the envelope you mail your credit card payment in.

    Odds are the address is either Delaware or South Dakota. Are those banks actually based in those states? Hell no. But the laws most favorable to that corporate interest (no usury laws, in this case) ARE in those states, so they put their credit department there in order to charge ridiculous interest and fees. The insurance industry wants to do exactly the same thing, which is why they are lobbying heavily for this.

    At least credit cards aren't mandatory. Arguably a necessary evil, but there's no law (not now and not in 2014) that says you MUST have one.
    That may be the case with certain credit card issuers. I have a Chase platinum card and it's department is in Illinois. I have a $25,000 credit limit and would be a fool to use that since the fine print in the contract says they can charge me 29.9 percent interest. I rarely use the card and use a debit instead. Another card I have the credit department is in Missouri. I don't like Chase bank so I probably will cancel the card.

    The thing with credit cards is they spell out the variable interest rates in the fine print. They usually give you a low interest deal and then jack it on you when you run the balance up. This is legal to do according to your credit card contract. So if you aren't aware they can do that to you, it's a hard lesson leaned you should read what you sign.

    That has nothing to do with shopping for a good deal. If certain companies run high premiums in those states, others will pop up in other states to undercut them because they still can make a profit margin. The theory is this will create more buying opportunities. Someone will always come in and sell for a lower price if they can still make a profit. The government's role is to make sure there is open free market competition instead of collusion. Laws can be put in place like they used to have on the banks but unfortunately were done away with. Sadly the government has been pro-monopoly as of late and does not fulfill it's role as a market referee making sure the market is open to many players.

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    I don't think flu shots are very effective at all. I think it's all about making money. The obvious vaccines that work are polio and things like that. It's obvious that disease was wiped out by vaccinations. I think that whole flu shot madness a year ago was all about the World Health Organization and corporations out to make a lot of money. It's the same with the whole green business. Not that some of that stuff is bad but they create media hyped fear to sell products and make money. The United Nations is more about people making money than it is about bringing any kind of universal peace. The craziest scam they have come up with is that carbon credit none sense. Of course this will run the little guys out of business and the big fat cats that can buy the credits can pollute all they want.

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    Using a credit card is a choice. Getting sick or injured is not. So why should people be forced into hidden "fine print" charges due to circumstances beyond their control?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FORD View Post
    Using a credit card is a choice. Getting sick or injured is not. So why should people be forced into hidden "fine print" charges due to circumstances beyond their control?
    Forced? If that's the case it's racketeering. I hate hidden shit in fine print as well but unfortunately that seems to be where things have gone. I think an important question to ask is why? We used to have great healthcare in this country and when I first got married 20 years ago, I never thought about it. It was just another insurance expense. Something went crazy in the last two decades. Corruption and it's across the board and in everything. Maybe in the past people were just more honest in general? Maybe thats what happened.

    My dad said my grandfather used to do huge deals on a hand shake and the most insulting thing you could do to a person was call them a liar. People guarded their reputations like they were fine wine or gold. Not today. If people can find a legal loophole they will skull fuck you. So much unethical behavior is done because the so called law allows it. That nasty lawyer thing you know. I think that is what has gone wrong.

    So what to do? Both the private sector and the government are full of thieving rats. I've seen a wonderfully ran country hospital become poorly ran in the last ten years and because of poor management it was sold to a private company. The prices pretty much doubled. It was really good when the country ran it but something happend. Corrupt idiots happened and I think this is the major problem no matter who is running the show.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    A word about the author



    In other words Dave is NOT a doctor and practices non evidence based nonsense which is actually banned in some US States and restricted in many others.
    Yep. There isn't anyone in the medical field that will rip you off faster than a Naturopath. Fucking Quacks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mushroom View Post
    Maybe the doctors should study ME. And they will tell you what Nitro said above: If you just eat a balanced diet, wash your hands, keep your fingers out of your nose and mouth, get plenty of vitamin C and D, get proper sleep amounts, lower your stress, and get some exercise. You will be healthier.
    Healthier? Maybe.

    Immune to illness, including the flu? No.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Express View Post
    Sesh is a dyed in the wool socialist that probably never had to meet a payroll or employed anyone in his life. He believes the average person is too stupid to take care of themselves and needs academics and elites to regulate and run society. Such people love government checks but rarely think where that money actually comes from. They hate the rich but fail to realize it's rich bankers who are behind the socialist agenda and support it because it eliminates competition and concentrates power into a few people they own. This is why rich capitalists like George Soros back socialism. It's great for the fat cats who control it behind the scenes and eliminates any new comers because they can't get a business off the ground due to all the regulations and taxes. Everyone becomes a slave dependent on the government for everything. If corporations are involved in this monopoly, it's fascism but that's just a technicality.

    Socialists all sound the same and give the same answers. If your medical data comes from the World Health Organization they will lap it up but if it comes from somewhere else it's shit.
    Ouch.

    I make a real point of trying to keep my real life out of posts here firstly because it seems to end up turning into ammo which is a shame but also because a lot of the good thing about the internet is that we all come here as equals and this is somewhere where we can debate without the trappings and preconceptions of the real world.

    That said people that have been paying attention here over the years will know I set up my first company 12 years ago and now employ people in the UK and US, it's in the healthcare sector and I'm super lucky in that I can sleep well at night doing something pretty worthwhile.

    As far as your other assumptions I think Ford's signature sums it up better.

    That and I'm into truth and have enough heart to give a flying fuck about people that have had a shittier hand of cards to play than me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Express View Post
    Nobody gets out alive Sesh. I'm having fun. Are you?
    I'm a happy camper.

    Very few things in life annoy me, I'm one of the most laid back people I know but I have to admit that quacks drive me fucking nuts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ELVIS View Post
    Yep, 20 years is more than enough...

    It's nothing but glorified secreterial work where nothing but compliance is rewarded...

    I'm doing custom wood work and fabrication and I'm doing well for just starting out...

    That's tremendous, exciting times for you, I really hope it works out.

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    Thanks!!!

    But don't mind nitro...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Candy Girl View Post
    Just out of curiousity, what are your credentials Sesh?
    Yes,Please Tell Us?
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    Quote Originally Posted by FORD View Post
    At least credit cards aren't mandatory. Arguably a necessary evil, but there's no law (not now and not in 2014) that says you MUST have one.
    I cannot think of one reason why they are necessary (only evil). I truly believe that credit cards are a big part of what is hurting our country, because people apparently lack the self control to save up for the things they want and give in to the instant gratification without thinking of the hidden costs. The best thing I have done for myself to date has been to pay off and cancel every credit account I have had. I save up for anything I want and enjoy it all the more for having waited and planned out the acquisition.

    Credit cards are evil and I refuse to personally support that industry in any shape or form. If it were at all possible to outlaw them, I would be in favor of it in a heartbeat. They do nothing but take advantage of the stupid and poor with the intent of ripping people off. My wife took a seasonal job selling retail clothes (God only knows why she wanted to) and to work there, you have to push their credit card. The interest rate? 24% ... before any of the penalties if you miss payments. And they sign people up all day long.

    That shit ruins peoples lives.
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