Roth Army Gun Thread

[sadaist]

Or you could go the complete other way and get this little guy to hypnotize the bad guys until the police arrive.........

[Diamondjimi]

Although Canada is not known as an armed nation. I do know a few gun owners (hunters and marksmen). I wouldn't hesitate for a second to cap a home invader, if I owned a gun.
The fucked up thing is I would go to prison for murder for protecting my family...

[Seshmeister]

And you'd be very wrong in that estimation. According to a study conducted by the company asked us to remove this link.org, there are 8,000 home invasions in the U.S. daily.

I may have understated it a bit but these figures coming from a website which is trying to sell insurance are nuts.

[sadaist]

I may have understated it a bit but these figures coming from a website which is trying to sell insurance are nuts.

Well, to be fair...when I think of "home invasion" I think of the family getting tied up while the robbers rummage the entire house.

I do not consider it the same when a robber breaks in while people are sleeping or they think people are on vacation, but they are home. Might have a conflict as robber tries to flee once he realizes someone is home.

The statistics sound like they wrap them all up as one. Hell, they might even consider any home robbery an "invasion" as technically the home has been invaded, whether anyone was home or not.

[Seshmeister]

Not only that I they seem to be including any robbery and basically any crime that happens in some ones home.

From the earlier posts I appreciate that home invasion is more common in the US than here but maybe that's because of easy access to guns. I still dispute the figures though. If you are living in some shitty area in the worst part of town and a rival gang kicks your door in because you are fucking one of their cousins then that would appear on the so called home invasion figures.

Does anyone here know anyone who has had a home invasion?

Most people if you include friends of friends and relatives have a circle of maybe 500 people so if 100 people look at this thread we are talking about 50 000 people.

Anyone heard of a home invasion first hand?

[ashstralia]

Anyone heard of a home invasion first hand?

i know a person who did a home invasion, and another who was a victim of one. in both cases drugs were involved, and in both cases offender and victim knew each other. i'm not in a big city, and our (very general) area is known for drug production so i don't think this helps.

you're talking more about a random invasion where offender and victim are complete strangers?

[sadaist]

Anyone heard of a home invasion first hand?

Closest I can come is when a lot of guys were doing work on our house (when I lived with parents), a guy walked in and stole a bunch of stuff in broad daylight. We had guys doing the plumbing, carpets, cable, room addition, etc... Parents having a ton of work done on the home while we lived in it. Guy targeted it and no one even noticed until after. He just walked in like any other construction guy.

So to answer your question...no. I don't know anyone personally that has had one.

[ashstralia]

to clarify my previous post, those were two separate completely unrelated incidents. but the general pattern is the same in a huge proportion of what our law defines as 'home invasion'. due to our fairly strict gun laws, most of the offenders use knives, bats, iron bars, machetes, golf clubs etc.

anyway... back on topic; i had a beautiful old semi auto .22 rifle dad gave me when i was 10. a bloody ancient thing, with a kangaroo carved into the butt. i handed it in for the buyback, they gave me $350.

[Seshmeister]

you're talking more about a random invasion where offender and victim are complete strangers?

Yeah exactly. I think 99% of those in the statistics are scumbags who know each other.

[chefcraig]

Yeah exactly. I think 99% of those in the statistics are scumbags who know each other.

If someone breaks into your home and robs you while you are present, it's clearly a home invasion. The notion that these crimes are gang or drug related can not be discounted, particularly when innocent people's homes are mistaken for those used by criminals and (through the thieves' ignorance) creates collateral damage. It is splitting hairs to attempt to differentiate between the activities, and distorts the reality of the situation as much as grouping the crimes in with simple robberies does.

The truth is, home invasions in the United States have reached epidemic proportions. Pretending that people who are forced to live in high crime areas (shitty neighborhoods) should simply expect what comes with the territory is ludicrous, just as saying that people robbed by insouciance in better neighborhoods is merely an accidental side effect. Both are symptoms of the larger issue of crime running rampantly, that knows of or could care less of the social status of it's victims.

[redblkwht]

Hollow points go in the size of a quarter...and come out the size of a dinner plate. Serious stopping power. In the movies you think any bullet is gonna stop someone dead in their tracks. But it's far from that. Especially if people are using small guage. Although, I would really like to buy this if I ever have the extra money.

what is that bro cant read the label..guns & sport im thinking a big tittie thread & this is what you post..lol
I had a 9mm S&wesson sold it cause our boy, it didnt have a lock on it & we got paraniod, im in the market again,.
any suggestions? AZ is a no lisc state too, we can pack anywhere its scary..with the wrong people carrying.

[Jagermeister]

Ok time to really scare the piss out of all you non gun toteing weenies. Today lets take a short look at the sniper rifle.

Readily available to just about anyone.




Eexcuse the pun but they are killer. Typical characteristic are of course the optical sight and the heavy barrel. The barrels are machined for accuracy. There are other reason for them. Read the wiki link below.

Typical calibers are 7.62 x 51 NATO which is basically a 308 Winchester. Hence why you see many 308’s outfitted as sniper rifles. They are extremely accurate at long ranges. Oddly enough in my research it turns out the 7mm rem mag is also popular. I have one of those.

From wiki:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniper_rifle

History
During World War II, the (7.62x54mmR) Mosin-Nagant rifle mounted with a telescopic sight was commonly used as a sniper rifle by Russian snipers.
Vietnam War era sniper rifles, US Army XM21 (top) and USMC M40 (bottom)In the American Civil War Confederate troops equipped with barrel-length three power scopes mounted on the exceptionally accurate British Whitworth rifle had been known to kill Union officers at ranges of about 800 yards (731.5m), an unheard-of distance at that time.[1][2][3][4]

The earliest sniper rifles were little more than conventional military or target rifles with long-range "peep sights" and Galilean 'open telescope' front and rear sights, designed for use on the target range. Only from the beginning of World War I did specially adapted sniper rifles come to the fore. Germany deployed military caliber hunting rifles with telescopic sights, and the British used Aldis, Winchester and Periscopic Prism Co. sights fitted by gunsmiths to regulation SMLE Mk III and Mk III* or Enfield Pattern 1914 rifles; the Canadian Ross rifle was also employed by snipers after it had been withdrawn from general issue.

Typical World War II-era sniper rifles were generally standard-issue battle rifles, selected for accuracy, with a 2.5x or 3x telescopic sight and cheek-rest fitted and the bolt turned down if necessary to allow operation with the scope fitted. Australia's No.1 Mk III* (HT) rifle was a later conversion of the SMLE fitted with the Lithgow heavy target barrel at the end of WW2. By the end of the war, forces on all sides had specially trained soldiers equipped with sniper rifles, and they have played an increasingly important role in military operations ever since.

[edit] ClassificationModern sniper rifles can be divided into two basic classes: military and law enforcement.

[edit] Military
U.S. Marine Corps SRT sniper team with an M24 sniper rifle, during sniper training.Sniper rifles aimed at military service are often designed for very high durability, range, reliability, sturdiness, serviceability and repairability under adverse environmental and combat conditions, at the sacrifice of a small degree of accuracy. Military snipers and sharpshooters may also be required to carry their rifles and other equipment for long distances, making it important to minimise weight. Military organizations often operate under strict budget constraints, which influences the type and quality of sniper rifles they purchase.

[edit] Law enforcementSniper rifles built or modified for use in law enforcement are generally required to have the greater possible accuracy, more than military rifles, but do not need to have as long a range.

As law enforcement-specific rifles are usually used in non-combat (often urban) environments, they do not have the requirement to be as hardy or portable as military versions; nevertheless they may be smaller, as they do not need very long range.

Some of the first sniper rifles designed specifically to meet police and other law-enforcement requirements were developed for West German police after the Munich massacre at the 1972 Summer Olympics. Many police services and law enforcement organizations (such as the U.S. Secret Service) now use rifles designed for law enforcement purposes.

The Heckler & Koch PSG1 is one rifle specifically designed to meet these criteria and is often referred to as an ideal example of this type of sniper rifle. The FN Special Police Rifle was built for and is marketed to law enforcement rather than military agencies.

[edit] Distinguishing characteristics
Looking through a telescopic sight.
Military Sniper Reticle
1 - Lead/deflection scale
2 - Main targeting chevron
3 - Bullet drop chevrons
4 - RangefinderThe features of a sniper rifle can vary widely depending on the specific tasks it is intended to perform. Features that may distinguish a sniper rifle from other weapons are the presence of a telescopic sight, unusually long overall length,[5] a stock designed for firing from a prone position, and the presence of a bipod and other accessories.

[edit] Telescopic sightThe single most important characteristic that sets a sniper rifle apart from other military or police small arms is the mounting of a telescopic sight, which is relatively easy to distinguish from smaller optical aiming devices found on some modern assault rifles and submachine guns. This also allows the user to see farther.

The telescopic sights used on sniper rifles differ from other optical sights in that they offer much greater magnification (more than 4x and up to 40x), and have a much larger objective lens (40 to 50 mm in diameter) for a brighter image.

Most telescopic lenses employed in military or police roles have special reticles to aid with judgment of distance, which is an important factor in accurate shot placement due to the bullet's trajectory.

[edit] ActionThe choice between bolt-action and semi-automatic (more commonly known as recoil or gas operation) is usually determined by specific requirements of the sniper's role as envisioned in a particular organization, with each design having advantages and disadvantages. For a given cartridge, a bolt-action rifle is cheaper to build and maintain, more reliable, and lighter, due to fewer moving parts in the mechanism. In addition, the lack of an external magazine allows for more versatile fire-positioning, and the absence of uncontrolled automatic cartridge case ejection helped to avoid revealing the firer's position. Semi-automatic weapons can serve both as battle rifle and sniper rifle, and allow for a greater rate (and hence volume) of fire. As such rifles may be modified service rifles, an additional benefit can be commonality of operation with the issued infantry rifle. A bolt action is most commonly used in both military and police roles due to its higher accuracy and ease of maintenance. Anti-materiel applications such as mine clearing and special forces operations tend to use semi-automatics.


A Marine manually extracts an empty cartridge and chambers a new 7.62x51mm round in his bolt-action M40A3 sniper rifle. The bolt handle is held in the shooter's hand and is not visible in this photo.A designated marksman rifle (DMR) is less specialized than a typical military sniper rifle, often only intended to extend the range of a group of soldiers. Therefore, when a semi-automatic action is used it is due to its ability to cross over into roles similar to the roles of standard issue weapons. There may also be additional logistical advantages if the DMR uses the same ammunition as the more common standard issue weapons. These rifles enable a higher volume of fire, but sacrifice some long range accuracy. They are frequently built from existing selective fire battle rifles or assault rifles, often simply by adding a telescopic sight and adjustable stock.

A police semi-automatic sniper rifle may be used in situations that require a single sniper to engage multiple targets in quick succession, and military semi-automatics such as the M110 SASS are used in similar "target-rich" environments.

[edit] CartridgeIn a military setting, logistical concerns are the primary determinant of the cartridge used, so sniper rifles are usually limited to rifle cartridges commonly used by the military force employing the rifle and match grade ammunition. Since large national militaries generally change slowly, military rifle ammunition is frequently battle-tested and well-studied by ammunition and firearms experts. Consequently, police forces tend to follow military practices in choosing a sniper rifle cartridge instead of trying to break new ground with less-perfected (but possibly better) ammunition.

Before the introduction of the standard 7.62x51mm NATO cartridge in the 1950s, standard military cartridges were the .30-06 Springfield or 7.62x63mm (United States), .303 British (7.7x56mmR) (United Kingdom) and 7.92x57mm (8mm Mauser) (Germany). The .30-06 Springfield continued in service with U.S. Marine Corps snipers during the Vietnam War in the 1970s, well after general adoption of the 7.62x51mm. At the present time, in both the Western world and within NATO, 7.62x51mm is currently the primary cartridge of choice for military and police sniper rifles.

Worldwide, the trend is similar. The preferred sniper cartridge in Russia is another .30 calibre military cartridge, the 7.62 x 54 mm R, which has similar performance to the 7.62x51mm. This cartridge was introduced in 1891, and both Russian sniper rifles of the modern era, the Mosin-Nagant and the Dragunov sniper rifle, are chambered for it.

Certain commercial cartridges designed with only performance in mind, without the logistical constraints of most armies, have also gained popularity in the 1990s. These include the 7 mm Remington Magnum (7.2x64mm), .300 Winchester Magnum (7.8/7.62x67mm), and the .338 Lapua Magnum (8.6x70mm). These cartridges offer better ballistic performance and greater effective range than the 7.62x51mm. Though they are not as powerful as .50 calibre cartridges they are not as heavy as rifles chambered for .50 calibre ammunition, and are significantly more powerful than rifles chambered for 7.62x51mm.


M82A1 SASR (Special Applications Scoped Rifle), a .50 calibre sniper rifle used as an anti-materiel rifle.Snipers may also employ anti-materiel rifles in sniping roles against targets such as vehicles, equipment and structures, or for the long-range destruction of explosive devices; these rifles may also be used against personnel.

Anti-materiel rifles tend to be semi-automatic and of a larger calibre than anti-personnel rifles, using cartridges such as the .50 BMG, 12.7x108mm Russian or even 14.5x114mm Russian and 20mm. These large cartridges are required to be able to fire projectiles containing payloads such as explosives, armour piercing cores, incendiaries or combinations of these, such as the Raufoss Mk211 projectile. Due to the considerable size and weight of anti-materiel rifles, 2- or 3-man sniper teams become necessary.

[edit] BarrelBarrels are normally of precise manufacture and of a heavier cross section than more traditional barrels in order to reduce the change in impact points between a first shot from a cold barrel and a follow-up shot from a warm barrel. Unlike many battle and assault rifles, the bores are usually not chromed to avoid inaccuracy due to an uneven treatment.

When installed, barrels are often free-floated, i.e., installed so the barrel only contacts the rest of the rifle at the receiver, to minimise the effects on impact point of pressure on the fore-end by slings, bipods, or the sniper's hands. The end of the barrel is usually crowned or machined to form a rebated area around the muzzle proper to avoid asymmetry or damage, and consequent inaccuracy. Alternatively, some rifles such as the Dragunov or Walther WA2000 provide structures at the fore-end to provide tension on the barrel in order to counteract barrel drop and other alterations in barrel shape.

External longitudinal fluting that contributes to heat dissipation by increasing surface area while simultaneously decreasing the weight of the barrel is sometimes used on sniper rifle barrels.

Sniper rifle barrels may also utilise a threaded muzzle or combination device (muzzle brake or flash suppressor and attachment mount) to allow the fitting of a sound suppressor. These suppressors often have means of adjusting the point of impact while fitted.

Military sniper rifles tend to have barrel lengths of 600 mm (24 inches) or longer, to allow the cartridge propellant to fully burn, reducing revealing muzzle flash and increasing bullet velocity. Police sniper rifles may use shorter barrels to improve handling characteristics. The shorter barrels' velocity loss is unimportant at closer ranges; projectile energy is more than sufficient.

[edit] StockThe most common special feature of a sniper rifle stock is the adjustable cheek piece, where the shooter's cheek meets the rear of the stock. For most rifles equipped with a telescopic sight, this area is raised slightly, because the telescope is positioned higher than iron sights. A cheek piece is simply a section of the stock that can be adjusted up or down to suit the individual shooter. To further aid this individual fitting, the stock can sometimes also be adjusted for length, often by varying the number of inserts at the rear of the stock where it meets the shooter's shoulder. Sniper stocks are typically designed to avoid making contact with the barrel of the weapon.

[edit] AccessoriesAn adjustable sling is often fitted on the rifle, used by the sniper to achieve better stability when standing, kneeling, or sitting. The sniper uses the sling to "lock-in" by wrapping their non-firing arm into the sling forcing their arm to be still. Non-static weapon mounts such as bipods, monopods and shooting sticks are also regularly used to aid and improve stability and reduce operator fatigue.

[edit] Capabilities[edit] Accuracy
Comparison of 0.5, 1, and 3 MOA extreme spread levels against a human torso at 800 m (left) and a human head at 100 m (right)A military-issue battle rifle or assault rifle is usually capable of between 3-6 minute of angle (MOA) (1-2 mrad) accuracy. A standard-issue military sniper rifle is typically capable of 1-3 MOA (0.3-1 mrad) accuracy, with a police sniper rifle capable of 0.25-1.5 MOA (0.1-0.5 mrad) accuracy. For comparison, a competition target or benchrest rifle may be capable of accuracy up to 0.15-0.3 MOA (0.05-0.1 mrad).

A 1 MOA (0.3 mrad) average extreme spread for a 5-shot group (meaning the center-to-center distance between the two most distant bullet holes in a shot-group) translates into 69% probability that the bullet's point of impact will be in the circle with center in point of aim and diameter of 25 cm at 800 m (about 8 inches at 800 yards), which is considered sufficient to ensure a high probability of hitting a human shape at that distance.

In 1982 a U.S. Army draft requirement for a Sniper Weapon System was: "The System will: (6) Have an accuracy of no more than 0.75 MOA (0.2 mrad) for a 5-shot group at 1,500 meters when fired from a supported, non-benchrest position".[6] Actual Sniper Weapon System (M24) adopted in 1988 has stated maximum effective range of 800 meters and a maximum allowed average mean radius (AMR) of 1.9 inches at 300 yards from a machine rest, what corresponds to a 1.6 MOA (0.5 mrad) extreme spread for a 5-shot group when using 7.62 x 51 mm M118 Special Ball cartridges.[7][8][9]


Precision Weapon Engagement Ranges & Dispersion according to the US Army.A 2008 United States military market survey for a Precision Sniper Rifle (PSR) calls for 1 MOA (0.3 mrad) extreme vertical spread for all shots in a 5-round group fired at targets at 300, 600, 900, 1,200 and 1,500 meters.[10][11] In 2009 a United States Special Operations Command market survey calls for 1 MOA (0.3 mrad) extreme vertical spread for all shots in a 10-round group fired at targets at 300, 600, 900, 1,200 and 1,500 meters.[12][13] The 2009 Precession Sniper Rifle requirements state that the PSR when fired without suppressor shall provide a confidence factor of 80% that the weapon and ammunition combination is capable of holding 1 MOA extreme vertical spread. This shall be calculated from 150 ten (10) round groups that were fired unsuppressed. No individual group shall exceed 1.5 MOA (0.5 mrad) extreme vertical spread. All accuracy will be taken at the 1,500 meter point.[14][15] In 2008 the US military adopted the M110 Semi-Automatic Sniper System which has corresponding maximum allowed extreme spread of 1.8 MOA (0.5 mrad) for a 5-shot group on 300 feet, using M118LR ammunition or equivalent.[7][8][16] In 2010 maximum bullet dispersion requirement for M24 .300 Winchester Magnum corresponds[7][8] 1.4 MOA extreme spread for 5 shot group on 100 meters.[17]

Although accuracy standards for police rifles do not widely exist, rifles are frequently seen with accuracy levels from 0.5-1.5 MOA (0.2-0.5 mrad).[18] For typical policing situations an extreme spread accuracy level no better than 1 MOA (0.3 mrad) is usually all that is required. This is because police typically employ their rifles at short ranges.[19] At 100 m or less, a rifle with a relatively low accuracy of only 1 MOA (0.3 mrad) should be able to repeatedly hit a 3 cm (1.2 inch) target. A 3 cm diameter target is smaller than the brain stem which is targeted by police snipers for its quick killing effect.[20]

[edit] Maximum effective rangeCartridge Maximum effective range[21][22]
7.62x39mm 350 m
5.56x45mm 550 m
7.62x51mm (.308 Winchester) 800 m
7.62x54mm R 800 m
.30-06 Springfield 800 m
7 mm Remington Magnum 900–1,100 m
.300 Winchester Magnum 900–1,200 m
.338 Lapua Magnum 1,200-1,500 m
.50 BMG (12.7x99mm NATO)
12.7x108mm (Russian) 1,500–2,000 m
14.5x114mm 1,800–2,300 m
.408 Chey Tac 2,300 m

Unlike police sniper rifles, military sniper rifles tend to be employed at the greatest possible distances so that range advantages like the increased difficulty to spot and engage the sniper can be exploited. The most popular military sniper rifles (in terms of numbers in service) are chambered for 7.62 mm (0.30 inch) caliber ammunition, such as 7.62x51mm and 7.62x54mm R. Since sniper rifles of this class must compete with several other types of military weapons with similar range, snipers invariably must employ skilled fieldcraft to conceal their position.

The recent trend in specialised military sniper rifles is towards larger calibres that offer relatively favorable hit probabilities at greater range, such as the anti-personnel .338 Lapua Magnum cartridge and anti-materiel cartridges like the .50 BMG and the 14.5x114mm. This allows snipers to take fewer risks, and spend less time finding concealment when facing enemies that are not equipped with similar weapons.

Maximum range claims made by military organizations and materiel manufacturers regarding sniper weapon systems are not based on consistent or strictly scientific criteria. The problem is only the bullet interacts after a relatively long flight path with the target (can also be a materiel target for a sniper bullet). This implies that variables such as the minimal required hit probability, local atmospheric conditions, properties and velocity of the employed bullet (parts), properties of the target and the desired terminal effect are major relevant factors that determine the maximum effective range of the employed system.

[chefcraig]

Jag, if you (or anyone else, for that matter) are into sniper shooting, by all means check out the Bob Lee Swagger series of books by Stephen Hunter. Although works of fiction, Hunter really has a way of conveying the essence of what might go through the mind of a sniper as he goes about his business.

[Nitro Express]

Jag, if you (or anyone else, for that matter) are into sniper shooting, by all means check out the Bob Lee Swagger series of books by Stephen Hunter. Although works of fiction, Hunter really has a way of conveying the essence of what might go through the mind of a sniper as he goes about his business.

Like saving the last round for yourself because you don't want to be taken alive if you are a sniper.

[Nitro Express]

I would imagine with thermal imaging, being a sniper today is harder than ever. You can hide but masking your body heat signature is another problem.

[Seshmeister]

I may have understated it a bit but these figures coming from a website which is trying to sell insurance are nuts.

The insurance company in question contacted us today and asked for their links to be removed.

I obviously have carried out their wishes immediately because it helps me win an argument with Craig and that's all that matters even when it's from over 2 years ago.

We're in trouble with the Internet powers that be, and I am writing to ask for your help.

Our past link and content building practices left us with fluff and pseudo-link exchanges, and these old ways make our good links look questionable. I humbly ask for the links leading to HomeOwnersInsurance.org to be removed from rotharmy.com, specifically on

http://rotharmy.com/forums/showthrea...-thread/page2/.

I hope you can help us rectify our past, and I thank you for your time, patience, and understanding.

With well wishes

Boss guy
The insurance company

If only this happened more often on here - I'm now hopeful that Alex Jones will get in touch, apologize for all the bullshit he's been peddling and ask us to remove all the content of his that ELVIS put up.

[ELVIS]

And you'd do it too, fuckface...

That's why this site will be you and the crickets soon enough...

[ELVIS]

And how 'bout you stop salivating over my name and get your own material...

[DLR Bridge]

And how 'bout you stop salivating over my eternal flame and get your own material...

[jhale667]

That's why this site will be you and the crickets soon enough...

And then you'll wake up... still miserable as ever...

[Seshmeister]

And how 'bout you stop salivating over my name and get your own material...

[ELVIS]

Smugmeister and The Crickets...

[Von Halen]

Smugmeister and The Crickets...

Ha ha!

Smugmeister. I am so jealous I didn't coin that!

[Kristy]

Should be renamed "The Roth Army Small Penis Thread."

[PETE'S BROTHER]

should be renamed "the roth army small penis thread."

thought it was a secret forum here...

[LoungeMachine]

Should be renamed "The Roth Army Small Penis Thread."

Finally....

A forum you could mod with authority.

[LoungeMachine]

thought it was a secret forum here...

Mod room?

[VetteLS5]

thought it was the former mod forum here...

Fixed. You're welcome.

[Igosplut]

Why would I post my guns here when I'll probably have ta bury them in a few years....

[twonabomber]

Surprised MA hasn't gotten more strict already.

Ohio keeps taking things out of the concealed carry bill. Used to be no guns in bars etc, now it's allowed provided the permit holder is not drinking alcohol. There was also a provision for the media to access and print lists of permit holders, now that's going away too.

[Seshmeister]

Are you maybe missing us already?

[Igosplut]

MA is so strict you wouldn't believe it They allow NOTHING more than to carry. No bars (never has been) or state buildings. You have no right (by the law) to do ANYTHING with a firearm including defending yourself in your own home. The Castle law does not permit firearms because it is not stated specifically in the law. There is no stand your ground, matter of fact your are in violation even if you show it. They take your hand prints and it goes into the "criminal history board" so that ever crime comitted that they have fingerprints to your's are scanned. EVERY time...

[Von Halen]

You can get a CCW in Michigan to carry concealed. It's actually easier to carry it on display, like the cowboys used to do. That's legal in Michigan. But there are a lot of places you can't carry a gun too. Concealed or otherwise.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Seshmeister]

MA is so strict you wouldn't believe it They allow NOTHING more than to carry. No bars (never has been) or state buildings. You have no right (by the law) to do ANYTHING with a firearm including defending yourself in your own home. The Castle law does not permit firearms because it is not stated specifically in the law. There is no stand your ground, matter of fact your are in violation even if you show it. They take your hand prints and it goes into the "criminal history board" so that ever crime comitted that they have fingerprints to your's are scanned. EVERY time...

Sounds sensible.

[Igosplut]

Sounds sensible.

That is until you realize that when the tougher laws were introduced there were 1.3 million legal gun owners in MA. After the new laws that brought it down to 180K. From that time both the murder by firearm and gun violence (robberys, home invasion, ect) have tripled in numbers, It didn't work.

[Von Halen]

That is until you realize that when the tougher laws were introduced there were 1.3 million legal gun owners in MA. After the new laws that brought it down to 180K. From that time both the murder by firearm and gun violence (robberys, home invasion, ect) have tripled in numbers, It didn't work.

So has the black population in your State! Coincidence?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jhale667]

Stay classy.

[Seshmeister]

I thought violent crime in the US like here had gone down despite what the media would have you think?

[Seshmeister]

Ahh it has gone up a bit in MA but not trebled. I guess it doesn't help if all the surrounding states haven't changed their laws too.

[Nickdfresh]

And you'd do it too, fuckface...

That's why this site will be you and the crickets soon enough...

Yeah! You guys better watch it or Elvis will stop posting here!