recording drums questions

[bluemustard]

Hi all.
I just bought a drumkit.
I'm recording..had some questions:

Instead of having 8 or more mics I just have one in front of the kit and one on the far left from the snare and hi hat.
Sounds pretty ok to me.But if you got some tips please tell me.

There are online guitar tuners but is there also a way to tune your drums online?

thx roth on!

[jero]

Blue friend, It's in Dutch but here are some tips

Dynamische mic voor de bassdrum, voor de opening.
Dynamische mic boven de snare plus minus 10 cm ervan af. Schuinrichten naar het vel, van de ring af.
Condensator mic schuinrichten naar hihat plus minus 10 cm ervanaf. Bijvoorbeeld naar de bel, even luisteren of t klinkt
Dan twee condensator microfoons boven de kit hangen stereo links en rechts, richten naar de bekkens.(Overhead)
Kick, snare, hihat, klinken dan direct.
Overhead mics erbij mixen voor open en ruimtelijk geluid.

[Hardrock69]

Courtesy Of Google Translate:

Dynamic mic for the bass drum, for the opening.
Dynamic mic above the snare plus / minus 10 cm from it. Aiming at the skin diagonally, from the ring.
Condenser mic set diagonally to HiHat rid of plus / minus 10 cm. Example to the bell, or just listen to sounds
Then two condenser microphones suspended above the kit stereo left and right, to the reservoirs. (OHP)
Kick, snare, hihat, sound immediately.
Overhead mics there mixing open and spacious sound.

[Hardrock69]

I would say one in front, one overhead would be great if all you have is 2. Perhaps the one in front down low to capture more of the kick, as the overhead is going to catch the snare.

[chefcraig]

What used to drive me nuts when recording was the insane length of time used to place, tune and mic-up the drums. Two or more days would be spent on this venture, getting every last detail perfect. Then as soon as you start layering on the other instruments, the entire exercise proves to be a giant waste of time, because once the other instruments come into the mix, the drum sound changes, sometimes to the point of being entirely inappropriate. The thing is, you don't want to record the drums per se, what you want is the sound they project, so shoving a microphone an inch away from the drum head is fairly futile. Remember, the awesome drum sound on Zep's "When The Levee Breaks" was achieved by shoving the set in a stairwell and throwing a single microphone six or seven feet above the kit.

You also need to take into consideration the drummer himself, and his style of play. If he is heavy on the cymbals, you'll find yourself dealing with a great deal of cymbal-wash, which is in effect white noise or static.

The best drum sound VH ever achieved was through the work of producer Andy Johns. Here are a couple of clips featuring his advice for recording drums.

[Hardrock69]

Right on. Great post.

[kwame k]

Craig has brought up several good points, as usual.

Recording with 1 or 2 mics will get you a great sound but..........as Craig pointed out, when you layer or add instruments on top you lose the fullness, richness or some kind of 'ness. This is the key to having great drum sound, IMO. Having it sit well in the mix. Several things will contribute to this problem.....the biggest culprit is Phase Cancellation. The cymbals are a tone killer for the guitars and anything on the same frequency of the drums can effect your overall mix. The problem with the drums are... you have damn near every frequency to deal with. Instead of spending a ton of time getting a great drum sound by itself, get the sound with bass, guitar and vocals in tandem with your kit.

Here's how I set up for recording........

1. The room...every room is going to have it's own characteristic. it's own sweet spots, it's own dead spots, and it's own, as I call it, chaos spots (where the sound is bouncing off of smooth surfaces in several different directions). So a room that has hardwood floors, high ceilings, and nothing in it is going to sound way different than a room that has furniture and carpet in it. So take the time to listen to the room. Adding or subtracting furniture, blocking or buffering corners, taking away smooth surfaces and basically tunning the room will have a huge effect on the recorded sound. This will be crucial if you're using one or two mics and distant mixing the kit. When they recorded at Sun Studios they would add furniture to a room to deaden it, so you don't have to spend a ton of money on that egg crate sound absorption stuff. Use the sofa cushions, use pillows or blankets all can deaden a room, if need be. Remember though, a dead room is nice to add effects to the drums later but......a live room can save a ton of CPU resources, muddy mixes loaded with FX's and a ton of other, "We'll fix it in the mix", problems later.

My personal taste is......close mixing(which I rarely do anymore) keep the room dead.
Distant mixing....keep the room live but deaden any trouble spots, if you have them.
Have someone play the drums while you move around the room to find the sweet spots, use a mic with closed ear headphones to find the sweet spot through your recording gear. It really will save you time in the long run. At this point you're just trying to get a feel for the room, so don't worry if you use someone that doesn't know how to play drums, just have them hit as hard or as soft as you will......again, this is just to get an idea of the room.

See Craig's example of When The Levee Breaks to hear how much a "live" room can add to a song. The room itself is a huge part of the sound, don't overlook it because you may be fighting the room down the road.

2. The drums....tuning a kit properly will save a ton of hours down the road trying to EQ out..over rings, sympathy vibrations and boosting or subtracting EQ settings to "fix" the drums.
Drum heads don't have to be brand new and I prefer that the aren't. Think of it as using brand new strings on a guitar...they'll stretch, sound brighter, etc. With the drums it's worse because....although it's possible to use a tuner on drums, most people don't. It's not necessary.

Tuning...more people have problems tuning a kit than need be. Get a tension tuner or drum dial. A cheap one will work and they're available everywhere. What you're trying to do is get tension as evenly as possible around the drum head but it's not the end all be all. Once you have even tension you'll tweak it to get a smooth sound......remember most drum shells are not perfectly round nor are drum heads, for that matter. Get it close and use your ears.

Drum heads...everyone is different and shell thickness(plys),how deep the shells are, wood type and how hard you hit will determine which drum head is the best for you. I use Remo Pinstripe's on my toms and bass drum and Remo Ambassador's on my snare...top heads. Bottoms I use Remo Batter's clear one-ply. Drum heads are like guitar strings, there are different thicknesses and composites. So what drum head you'll use depends on your personal preference.

I like Remo Pinstripe's on my toms and bass because they're 2-ply with an oil base added between both plys, that seems to give me a richer, fuller, and deeper sound but, here again, that's just me. My general rule of thumb is....Pinstripe's for Rock-n-Roll, Ambassador's for lighter music, like Jazz. I also use RemO's Tone Control Rings instead of tape but duct tape is a musicians friend. Tone Rings are cheap and you can get a variety pack for under $10.00. I can't stress enough to get good drum heads. I've found that Pinstripe's work really well with most cheap drum sets and even my customs they work great. This is just my opinion and it's like arguing over a Les Paul vs a Strat.

Back to tuning..take off the drums heads, top and bottom. Check all the hardware to make sure nothing is loose. Tighten anything that is loose because it's a pain in the ass to hear a rattle on the playback and having to take the time to take a head off, tighten the loose part and re-tune.

Bass drum... put the kick head on first and tighten it just so the wrinkles are out of it. Tighten the lugs in a cross pattern and not left to right in a clockwise way. Tighten one lug and the one directly across from it all the way around the drum. Slow and even is the key. I usually put the lugs on finger tight all the way around and use my hand to push on the head to make sure it seats itself and to help stretch the head. Just like pulling on guitar strings as you tighten them. Once you have the wrinkles out, attach your bass drum peddle and start striking the head. Depending on the bass drum size and wood etc...depends on how tight you'll tune it. I prefer a tight kick head because it focuses the batter strike and cuts through better. I tighten it just enough to get the slop out of the head and the batter strike from the bass peddle, I like a little bounce back from the bass peddle. A rule of thumb is...the tighter the head the brighter the tone or higher the tone. The looser the head the deeper the tone. If you're getting too much over ring(the decay after you strike the head) but like the tone...add a pillow or two. Now for the front head...ask 10 people get 10 different answers. I use a front head because prefer the tone I get and the projection I get, especially distant mixing. That being said, a ton of people leave it off because it's one less head to worry about and it's easier to add pillows or dampen the drum. Cutting or buying a head that has a hole in it will work, too. If you use the front head do the same as the kick head....tighten it just so the wrinkles are out. After that have someone play the bass drum and tighten it till it resonates but doesn't have a ton of over ring. I prefer it looser but just to the point where it flexes when you hit your kick peddle. Remember a front head or batter head is effected by the amount of air hitting it from the top head. Get it close and not perfect because the rest of your drums will effect how you tune each one....it's called sympathy vibration and I'll get to that in a minute.....

Got a 2:30 meeting and I'll finish up the rest of this long ass ramble later on!

[jhale667]

Great posts, guys.

[Hardrock69]

Here is a tip for finding the sweet spot of a room. Before anything is in the room at all, get your snare, hold it with one hand (or arm or whatever), get a stick in the other hand, and walk around the room beating the snare until it sounds like God.

Get some tape, mark the spot where that snare drum just really sounds great, and that is where you put your snare drum stand. Then, build the kit around it. You can figure out the best direction to build it by setting your kick drum with pedal, and doing some snare/kick stuff, then rotating the kick around the snare, pointing it in different directions and playing it until you get the kick sounding great.

Though of course, all that is doing is making the drums sound great to YOU right there at that particular spot. But, by getting a sweet spot in the room, where the drums themselves have a great sound from that particular room, you can be ahead of the game before you walk around the room with a mic.

[kwame k]

Fucking awesome point......

[bluemustard]

thanks for all the replies guys!!!!!!!
Gonna study this stuff!
REALLY FUCKING GREAT!!
roth on!!

[bluemustard]

I made a p-funk jam with my new synth ,drums and bass guitar.
2 mics at the drum.Played 4 or 5 bars and looped it.
Is that a no no? I have to ptactice more and today i bought 2nd hand roto toms.

[bluemustard]

it's the best music when you're stoned.
You see burgers too.

[kwame k]

Sounds good brother......what I love about your music is it's otherworldly......and I mean that in a good way