Pro Fuck Ups

[sadaist]

Been thinking about this thread all day. Isn't there a point where no matter how much you play, practice, or are taught where you stop improving? You have reached your personal maximum skill level? I mean, not everyone will be a virtuoso, no matter how much they try. Not everyone will be Joe Montana no matter how many footballs they throw. Not everyone can be Michael Jordan no matter how much time on the court they have.

I waterski and have been for 21+ years. For many years we were at it 4 days a week. I reached a point where I wasn't getting any better. I still had loads of fun and was quite good....but I could not improve no matter how hard I kept trying. I bought newer skis, ropes, gloves, even skied behind different boats. I wasn't going to be able to turn any sharper, get closer to the water horizontally or improve my slalom times.

Just thinking some of these guys have reached their max level of proficiency.

[ThrillsNSpills]

Been thinking about this thread all day. Isn't there a point where no matter how much you play, practice, or are taught where you stop improving? You have reached your personal maximum skill level? I mean, not everyone will be a virtuoso, no matter how much they try. Not everyone will be Joe Montana no matter how many footballs they throw. Not everyone can be Michael Jordan no matter how much time on the court they have.

I waterski and have been for 21+ years. For many years we were at it 4 days a week. I reached a point where I wasn't getting any better. I still had loads of fun and was quite good....but I could not improve no matter how hard I kept trying. I bought newer skis, ropes, gloves, even skied behind different boats. I wasn't going to be able to turn any sharper, get closer to the water horizontally or improve my slalom times.

Just thinking some of these guys have reached their max level of proficiency.

There's so many areas to grow if that's your choice. There's rhythm playing, soloing, writing, etc. and there's tons of ways to improve playing if it's a stringed instrument especially. You can use a pick, use a pick and fingers, tap with 1 hand or two. The biggest challenge is losing your passion for it if you already have momentum developed. If you just pick it up and think you're helping your chops by playing the same patterns then you're growth is shot unless you decide to try new notes and directions. Not that playing patterns isn't good for your picking but you're more in a position of maintenance.

[jhale667]

There's so many areas to grow if that's your choice. There's rhythm playing, soloing, writing, etc. and there's tons of ways to improve playing if it's a stringed instrument especially. You can use a pick, use a pick and fingers, tap with 1 hand or two. The biggest challenge is losing your passion for it if you already have momentum developed. If you just pick it up and think you're helping your chops by playing the same patterns then you're growth is shot unless you decide to try new notes and directions. Not that playing patterns isn't good for your picking but you're more in a position of maintenance.

Excellent post. I'd totally agree, there's no reason to stop striving to be better. Look at someone like Jeff Beck...in his 60s and tell me THAT guy isn't still improving!! Once you get past a certain technical point, sure - you're not going to become more of a gymnast so to speak, but you should always be trying to improve your phrasing, sense of melody, etc. It's all about maintaining your passion and desire at that point, as Thrills so eloquently put it.

[Nitro Express]

Excellent post. I'd totally agree, there's no reason to stop striving to be better. Look at someone like Jeff Beck...in his 60s and tell me THAT guy isn't still improving!! Once you get past a certain technical point, sure - you're not going to become more of a gymnast so to speak, but you should always be trying to improve your phrasing, sense of melody, etc. It's all about maintaining your passion and desire at that point, as Thrills so eloquently put it.

The people who do get better have a passion for it. That's the difference in anything. You find something you like to do, you do it well, and if enough people like it, you can make a living at it. Some people are motivated by the living part of it and do enough to get by and then there are the ones who love what they do and would do it if they even didn't get paid to do it. Those are the people who are going to stand out and unless mental problems, physical disabilities, or drug addiction gets in the way, they typically do get better. Most people don't know what they want and are mostly money motivated so they don't have that natural drive for what they do. They do the bare minimum to get a paycheck and typically hate what they do.

[Nitro Express]

There's so many areas to grow if that's your choice. There's rhythm playing, soloing, writing, etc. and there's tons of ways to improve playing if it's a stringed instrument especially. You can use a pick, use a pick and fingers, tap with 1 hand or two. The biggest challenge is losing your passion for it if you already have momentum developed. If you just pick it up and think you're helping your chops by playing the same patterns then you're growth is shot unless you decide to try new notes and directions. Not that playing patterns isn't good for your picking but you're more in a position of maintenance.

I think a big challenge and you see this with Metallica is once they make a lot of money, they have other interests because the money opened those options up. Going on tour and making music might have been great when they had nothing and were hungry and had less options but now money has opened up a whole new world. The next thing you know you are wearing Armani with the trophy wife going to fashion shows and playing polo.

[Diamondjimi]

I think a big challenge and you see this with Metallica is once they make a lot of money, they have other interests because the money opened those options up. Going on tour and making music might have been great when they had nothing and were hungry and had less options but now money has opened up a whole new world. The next thing you know you are wearing Armani with the trophy wife going to fashion shows and playing polo.

Money turned them into "Rock Stars". The type of musicians they loathed and despised all those years ago. They became a stereotype.
I was fortunate enough to witness them in their "hungry/ftw" era (Ride the Lightning/Master). The fucking slayed. Haven't given them a dime of my money since '89.
Take a band like Slayer or Pantera, both have done well financially, but neither turned into "rock star" pussies or sold out for the big bux by writing "accessible music .
It's called integrity. And Metallica claims to have plenty, yet in reality they have ZERO.

[sadaist]

It's all about maintaining your passion and desire at that point, as Thrills so eloquently put it.

Yeah. But I imagine passion & desire to improve kinda fly out the window when your current level of skill has reaped $175 million. What is Lars' motivation to improve? To most people just self improvement is enough of a motivator. Be the best you that you can be. I don't really see Lars as this type of person.

[sadaist]

Money turned them into "Rock Stars". The type of musicians they loathed and despised all those years ago. They became a stereotype.
I was fortunate enough to witness them in their "hungry/ftw" era (Ride the Lightning/Master). The fucking slayed. Haven't given them a dime of my money since '89.
Take a band like Slayer or Pantera, both have done well financially, but neither turned into "rock star" pussies or sold out for the big bux by writing "accessible music .
It's called integrity. And Metallica claims to have plenty, yet in reality they have ZERO.

"Following our instinct - not a trend...

go against the grain until the end!"


Empty meaningless words now. But those fuckers lived it for a while. That was the attraction.

[Hardrock69]

I totally get what you're saying... if the old adage about "1 live gig equals 1 month's worth of rehearsal" is true, some of these guys - who should by now be beyond masters of their craft AND instruments 30 years later - aren't.

I had a friend who had a band for 2-3 years. They rehearsed and rehearsed and rehearsed. I think they only played 2 gigs the entire time. I used to get on him about it, and say "Learn 6 songs and get out there and play gigs! You aren't going to get any better playing for the roaches in the rehearsal facility!".

Then the band broke up.

Oh well, whatever.

[ashstralia]

these great guitarists all have a beautifully singing but individually recognisable sssooouuunndd.