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"If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992
Who would you consider to be rich ??
For purposes of this poll, anybody who makes over $250,000/year.
That's upper middle class, not rich...
Elvis is correct on this one, FORD. $250,000 is not rich.Originally Posted by ELVIS
"Tax the rich" is one of those feel good things because people are unhappy with their own financial picture. Raising taxes on the middle class, a much larger tax base, would bring in far more revenue than taxing the rich. That's not what I recommend, however.
Taxing the rich, or rather raising the tax rates for, would not solve our deficit dilemma. Not even confiscating all their wealth would solve it. Now I don't have a problem with raising the tax rates for the wealthy ($250,000 on up, if you insist) up a bit during healthier economic times, but raising them now will hinder job creation. More jobs => more taxpayers => more revenue. Most small business owners claim business profits on their personal tax returns, which I'm assuming you know they're allowed to do. Therefore, the tax code needs to be revamped also, in many ways.
You guys are certainly correct to point out that 'rich' is a loaded term. Surely anyone who earns double what the average national wage is could be termed 'rich' in a statistical sense, but they'd hardly be rolling in it.
However, I fail to see how anyone earning $250,000 or more is not deemed to be incredibly wealthy. Lawyers, doctors, accountant and so on could all afford to pay much higher taxes - the question is whether you think that those who are more successful should be obligated to contribute much more - both as a sum and a percentage - than everyone else. That's a moral call.
I think what Brian is alluding to is interesting though: taxing the rich is essentially taking money that would be in the economy anyway through spending or investments. Some would argue that that can create demand in the economy.
The Power Of The Riff Compels Me
The top half of all wage earners in this country pay 90% of the taxes...the top 5% pay 80%. Should they continue to shoulder most of the burden? Shouldn't the middle class (say those making $40,000 and up) pay something? How can they honestly have a vested interest in this country if they pay nothing? Most people on this board, I'm willing to bet, had all their taxes refunded to them that they paid into last year.
i have no problem with our welfare system for this same reason... all the money the recipients get in my little town gets spent in the town. even the drug money eventually filters into local businesses.
That is a very different state of affairs to the UK: not in the sense that the top 5-10% pay a HUGE proportion of the tax, but that those earning anything over £7,400 (around $12-14,000) pay 22.5% of their wage in tax, plus another 11% national insurance. I agree whole heartedly that everyone should contribute to the system - not an equal proportion of their wage, but a proportion nonetheless.
I paid 30% of my income in taxes and got no refund (nor did I owe more). I honestly think everyone's taxes should be raised (some more than others) and many programs need to have funding reduced or need to be eliminated all together. However, I believe that the national debt should be paid off completely and that budgets should be balanced, or funds should be created to help fund budgets in hard times.
I recently finished paying off all my own debts (student loans, credit cards, car payment) and it has done wonders for my own budget. I think we would benefit as a nation from following a similar plan. Yes, you have to do without a lot of things for a while, but the end result is worth it. Pay for what is important and plan for what you want.
Unfortunately I don't think the majority of the populace would hold elected officials feet to the fire; everyone wants what they want. I used to think if you assigned a dollar figure to everything and spoke in terms of how much money we had and what everything cost, it would help ... but I think anymore people don't care and think the government can just invent new money to solve the problem.
What a shame.
Most people don't pay attention...
They know this and that is how the government has overgrown to gargantuan proportions...
Why do you think anyone should pay more ??
How 'bout the government spend LESS!!!
No more nation building...
Reduce military spending...
Cuts can be made but both the retardicans and the dumbocrats refuse to be serious about it...
They know they have the populace locked in the left right game and they have the majority by the balls...
FUCK more taxes...FOR ANYONE!!!
Give me a fucking break. You can't even live a decent middle class lifestyle in Seattle unless you make over $100,000 a year. Rich to me is Bill Gates or Warren Buffet who admits it's obscene how little tax he pays.
Ford if you want your micro brews to disappear go ahead with your tax the shit out of the successful program. The guy who makes over $250,000 a year started the brewery, made it a success and now due to the costs of Obamacare and more taxes, shuts down the business and fires the staff. Of course some big corporation will be the benefactor. The micro brews will be gone, the farmer's markets or organic food marts will be gone. They will be taxed to obvlivion while the corporations who pay no tax will mop what little is left up.
Don't fall for this class warfare scam because the corporations are behind it. They are going to use the poor economy to fan the flames because it's the only play Obama has left in his complete failure of a presidency.
People are pretty pathetic actually. Things are good if they get a paycheck or welfare check and it's the end of the world if they don't. It's pretty much that simple. People really aren't that sophisticated and pretty easy to manipulate if you control the purse strings.Most people don't pay attention...
They know this and that is how the government has overgrown to gargantuan proportions...
Why do you think anyone should pay more ??
How 'bout the government spend LESS!!!
No more nation building...
Reduce military spending...
Cuts can be made but both the retardicans and the dumbocrats refuse to be serious about it...
They know they have the populace locked in the left right game and they have the majority by the balls...
FUCK more taxes...FOR ANYONE!!!
Most of these Republican or Democrat political shills are someone's bought off pet. I don't see any real leadership. I just see paid actors or con artists who latched up to the gravy train.
Last edited by Nitro Express; 04-21-2011 at 01:59 PM.
Eliminate the tax loopholes, tax havens and deductions. Make the tax a flat percentage, e.g. Everybody pays 25%. Temporarily increase federal gas tax to help reduce deficit.
16 of the 17% who are strongly against increasing tax on the over $250k are complete idiotholes.
The remaining 1% I assume are the people earning close to that who at least have the sense to vote for their own self interest.
I strongly suspect that is toilet talk.
Small businessmen who are doing well i.e. getting to the point of paying themselves $250k will have accountants that avoid tax like fuck.
The more I earned made as a small businessman the less I paid in tax as a percentage.
In the US 1% of the people have 40% of the wealth. Anyone that thinks that is a fair equitable or sensible way to run a society is a twisted fuck and shouldn't come crying when their kids get killed in the revolution. It is not sustainable.
So their wealth should be redistributed, I suppose...
Right ??
I don't think so. You have to be richer than that to bribe your way out of trouble. Much richer. You guys are mistaking the upper middle class for the corrupt mega rich with political ties. I'm sorry but even most millionaires in this country aren't members of the Council on Foreign Relations or know Timothy Geithner. But such people are smart enough to buy Democrat politicians and fan the class warfare flames against people with assets who had nothing to do with the problems in the first place. Then the corporations will come in and mop up what assets they don't already own.
Oh yeah, things will be much better then.Yeah when I visited the Soviet Union in 1978 and China in 1980 I thought those systems were so much better and couldn't figure out why we didn't adopt them. Oh yeah, all the boat people in Hong Kong harbor floating up from indo China looked so happy.
I agree with Mushroom, Eliminate the damn loopholes, institute a fair or flat tax
Also, why must we punish those that happen to be successful? Is that suddenly going to help me, joe college student, who's come from a upper-middle class family, somehow pay off his student loans? feeling better that some guy who's managing a fortune 500 company is paying 80% taxes, few of it having an impact on me.
fuck no.
Still waiting for a relevant Browns Team
when you guys talk about 'middle class' 'upper middle class' etc. what does that mean? and what's the next level above 'upper middle class'?
edit; i'm genuinely curious, and rather than google, i'd like one of you to tell me. or perhaps it's a whole other thread?
Last edited by ashstralia; 04-21-2011 at 09:11 PM.
My plumber in a good year makes $250K.
You aren't rich until you make above $500,000. If you make under $20,000 you are poor. The middle class hovers around $80,000 to $120,000. The upper middle class is $120,000 to $300,000. Put it this way, I almost took a job in Seattle for $106,000 and when I went house shopping I declined to take the job because a home in a decent area was out of my range. All the homes I could afford on that were ratty. $250,000 a year in a place like San Fransisco is chicken feed.
Regardless, raising taxes on anyone when the federal government refuses to by fiscally responsible is LEWD A CRISSS!!
thanks nitro. i make about the same as i did 15 years ago with 2 major differences; then it was 40-50 hours a week now it's less than 20, then i was in a city with large overheads and now i'm in a rural area where it's very cheap to live. so even though my tax status hasn't changed, i'm comparatively far better off.
i agree elvis. we pour buckets of money into indonesia every year, and the little bastards still want to blow us up.
I think spending should be cut, the budget should be capped at 95% of national income and the other 5% (scale the ratio to something sensible) should be used to pay down the debt, with the goal of having the national debt eliminated after 50 years.Most people don't pay attention...
They know this and that is how the government has overgrown to gargantuan proportions...
Why do you think anyone should pay more ??
How 'bout the government spend LESS!!!
No more nation building...
Reduce military spending...
Cuts can be made but both the retardicans and the dumbocrats refuse to be serious about it...
They know they have the populace locked in the left right game and they have the majority by the balls...
FUCK more taxes...FOR ANYONE!!!
That's why I think taxes should be increased; So that we don't cut so deep that it undercuts our ability to function and get ahead while still allowing us to pay off the debt. Once that is done, we can readjust and scale the tax burden accordingly.
And of course, it unfortunately will never happen.
It's pathetic...
Our elected leaders have somehow assumed the role of personal managers for most of the populace and I WANT NO PART OF IT!
And I really am starting to think the bankers and federal politicians are dragging us all in to a one world government and a central banking system...
That's why they are trying to strong arm the middle east...
The tax raising part will happen...
It has been redistributed for the last 30 years. In the WRONG direction.
I think we should just let the do gooder types who want higher taxes be allowed to pay all the extra taxes they want. Starting with every hypocrite politician like that useless pile of Kenyan Bushmeat in the oval office.
I wonder if they'll be able to get the smell out of the white house for the next criminal president.
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