Herman Cain PWNS Bill Clinton - 1994

[sadaist]

Career politicians should really stop interfering with businesses when they know little to nothing about them.

[BigBadBrian]

BC didn't understand the situation. Much like Obama doesn't understand his travesty of a health care law right now.

[sadaist]

BC didn't understand the situation. Much like Obama doesn't understand his travesty of a health care law right now.

I don't really blame Bill in this particular instance. When discussing those types of numbers you really need to see it written and spend more than 2 minutes on it. The math was getting beyond the point of simple in your head type stuff.

[knuckleboner]

BC didn't understand the situation. Much like Obama doesn't understand his travesty of a health care law right now.

who's currently saying it's a travesty? it's been in existence for a year now. i don't see private insurance companies dying out. i don't see hoards of denied coverage. i don't see doctors leaving in droves.

the funny thing is, the republicans are TREMENDOUS at messaging spin.

liberals did NOT like the health care law. they wanted single payer. the actual law isn't close. yet republicans messaged this so much as socialism and government takeover (though it was neither), that it poisoned the debate.

there are legitimate reasons on both sides to dislike the bill, but i'll reserve travesty for if people with cancer once again find themselves prey to insurance companies denying them coverage.

[VAiN]

Wow, they lost me half way into the number talk..

[Unchainme]

Health Care to me, is something I wish we had a dual system on.

Canada's health care is great, but it has it drawbacks. But I think we should go on some of the things they're doing. Even they themselves are running into a bit of a problem with it

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/prairies/battle-brewing-over-private-health-in-alberta/article1679252/

The US is world renowned for places like Mayo, and the Cleveland Clinic and some of the methods of care they've developed. Pushing them out, to me is foolish.

As for Cain, he's the most intriguing candidate out there for me. His social stances on gay marriage, anti-muslim comments and abortion being my only true disagreements with.

Kinda reminds me more of crazy old alan keyes. He won't win the nom. but damn, I'll be pulling for him. It would at least make the election 2012 fun and interesting.

[FORD]

The irony here is that the right wingers are bitching and complaining about a right wing, pro-corporatist health care plan. And it was such even before Romney implemented it in Massachusetts. This shit goes back to the Heritage Foundation and Newt Gingrich. All of whom are now denying they ever endorsed such a thing, now that the "Kenyan muslim socialist" implemented such a plan.

As usual though, the truth comes out.........

[Nitro Express]

I think the only honest thing I ever heard Obama say was he thought the professional politicians were more qualified to run things than anyone else. If you look at what a professional politician really is, it's basically a person for sale. All they care about is getting re-elected and staying in office for the rest of their lives making as much money as they can doing it. When you have too many professional politicians you start to get laws and agencies that benefit those who bribe the politicians the most. So your government regulatory agencies become the muscle for certain connected corporations. I just got done reading David Rockefeller's memoirs and he made the case in his book the world would be ran better by corporations, intellectuals, and banks rather than the self-government that has been tried. He basically views the US as a failed experiment. A democratic republic can work well if the citizens are decent people and stay involved in the political process. So many don't even know what their rights are. If anything the US suffers from laziness more than anything at the moment and when the boss is asleep the politicians and those who buy them go hog wild. Basically they rip us off because they have been getting away with it for so long.

[Nitro Express]

Health Care to me, is something I wish we had a dual system on.

Canada's health care is great, but it has it drawbacks. But I think we should go on some of the things they're doing. Even they themselves are running into a bit of a problem with it

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/prairies/battle-brewing-over-private-health-in-alberta/article1679252/

The US is world renowned for places like Mayo, and the Cleveland Clinic and some of the methods of care they've developed. Pushing them out, to me is foolish.

As for Cain, he's the most intriguing candidate out there for me. His social stances on gay marriage, anti-muslim comments and abortion being my only true disagreements with.

Kinda reminds me more of crazy old alan keyes. He won't win the nom. but damn, I'll be pulling for him. It would at least make the election 2012 fun and interesting.

The US had great healthcare when counties, charity organizations, or church's ran the hospitals. We had a county hospital where I grew up and if you were a resident of that country you couldn't be denied admittance and they took care of you. For the few people that couldn't pay their bills they just charged the ones who could more.

The problem with healthcare is it's not about healthcare it's about insurance. Health insurance used to really be bankruptsy insurance. For the small shit you just paid the doctor yourself and for the big stuff the insurance kicked in. Then people started letting the insurance pay for more and more and it opened the doors to all sorts of fraud. When the government got involved with medicare the doctors just charged more to cover their medicare fees. So what ruined US healthcare was the collusion with the government and insurance companies and if you look into Obama care that is exactly what it is. It makes it illegal for you to negotiate with your doctor and forces you to pay into a insurance policy. We have allowed the insurance companies to become too powerful.

How you fix it is go back to the old US system of paying for your own healthcare and the prices will adjust to what people can pay. The money is not in providing the healthcare it's in selling the insurance. The universal healthcare dream won't work in the US because too many politicians have been bought off by the insurance industry. I kept telling people giving the government more power would just give those who buy the politicians more power. Now with Obamacare there is no free market healthcare and it will only get more expensive which is happening. Look at the prices on your healthcare now and even medical equipment. The prices are higher than ever. Then once Obamacare kicks in full time you won't even have the choice of what equipment to buy or who your physician is going to be but you will pay more than you did before. Less choices. Less care for more money. When the patient could negotiate price with the physician themselves healthcare was the cheapest it ever was.

[Nitro Express]

Health Care to me, is something I wish we had a dual system on.

Canada's health care is great, but it has it drawbacks. But I think we should go on some of the things they're doing. Even they themselves are running into a bit of a problem with it

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/prairies/battle-brewing-over-private-health-in-alberta/article1679252/

The US is world renowned for places like Mayo, and the Cleveland Clinic and some of the methods of care they've developed. Pushing them out, to me is foolish.

As for Cain, he's the most intriguing candidate out there for me. His social stances on gay marriage, anti-muslim comments and abortion being my only true disagreements with.

Kinda reminds me more of crazy old alan keyes. He won't win the nom. but damn, I'll be pulling for him. It would at least make the election 2012 fun and interesting.

I would rather vote for someone who is honest even if there are a few things I disagree with than someone who is always changing their image according to social trends. What's lacking in politics and just about everything today is integrity. I have no problem with someone who thinks gay marriage is weird or wrong. That's an overhyped fad anyways. I have a problem with people who think gays should be beat up or killed for being gay. I have no problem with someone who finds the behavior offensive.

I say fuck the nomination. That's one of the biggest problems in our political system. Both major parties have a monopoly on who can get on the county ballots and then they whittle the choices even more by this nomination nonsense. All it does is whittle the choices down further according to who the party sees fit. I think that's going to change. Ron Paul is holding his own with the other Republican candidates but the party totally ignores him. The local republican party here is telling people Ron Paul is a wasted vote. They are going to want to run a big fascist crony like Romney. Got to keep the corporate/government marriage going ya know.

Americans need to get passed the social issues. We never will agree on those. What we need to agree on is the basic freedoms our constitution allows and fight for the right to have those because we are going to lose them fighting over the social issues. They have figured out how to divide us and then sell the same shit on both sides. That is the main political problem in this country.

[Blaze]

The US had great healthcare when counties, charity organizations, or church's ran the hospitals. We had a county hospital where I grew up and if you were a resident of that country you couldn't be denied admittance and they took care of you. For the few people that couldn't pay their bills they just charged the ones who could more.

The problem with healthcare is it's not about healthcare it's about insurance. Health insurance used to really be bankruptsy insurance. For the small shit you just paid the doctor yourself and for the big stuff the insurance kicked in. Then people started letting the insurance pay for more and more and it opened the doors to all sorts of fraud. When the government got involved with medicare the doctors just charged more to cover their medicare fees. So what ruined US healthcare was the collusion with the government and insurance companies and if you look into Obama care that is exactly what it is. It makes it illegal for you to negotiate with your doctor and forces you to pay into a insurance policy. We have allowed the insurance companies to become too powerful.

How you fix it is go back to the old US system of paying for your own healthcare and the prices will adjust to what people can pay. The money is not in providing the healthcare it's in selling the insurance. The universal healthcare dream won't work in the US because too many politicians have been bought off by the insurance industry. I kept telling people giving the government more power would just give those who buy the politicians more power. Now with Obamacare there is no free market healthcare and it will only get more expensive which is happening. Look at the prices on your healthcare now and even medical equipment. The prices are higher than ever. Then once Obamacare kicks in full time you won't even have the choice of what equipment to buy or who your physician is going to be but you will pay more than you did before. Less choices. Less care for more money. When the patient could negotiate price with the physician themselves healthcare was the cheapest it ever was.

What planet are you on? A paid/charity health care is not a better system. People will simply ignore health care issues and not go to the doctor, thus become a sicker workforce. Moreover, children suffer under a a charity based healthcare system.

You should be ashamed of your self to even think such scrooge thoughts.

[Nitro Express]

What planet are you on? A paid/charity health care is not a better system. People will simply ignore health care issues and not go to the doctor, thus become a sicker workforce. Moreover, children suffer under a a charity based healthcare system.

You should be ashamed of your self to even think such scrooge thoughts.

I don't believe in free handouts. If you can pay you pay. If you can't because of REAL circumstances then charity is available. One reason healthcare prices are so high is we got rid of price negotiation and replaced it with insurance. Now it's gotten to the point where the insurance is going to force everyone to pay into it regardless. The insurance companies really duped people with Obamacare selling mandatory insurance payments as charity. People need to stop giving the store away because they feel entitled to a free lunch. People need jobs not welfare and they need to pay market prices for what they get instead of leaching off the public dole that only makes people lazy and dumb.

If you really think the US Government cares about you and your family more than yourself, then that really is planet la la land. You know the government right now that likes to bomb civilians and start unnecessary wars? Yeah. That's who I want in charge of my healthcare instead of a local hospital I can negotiate personally with.

[Blaze]

Let me explain something to you, Nitro. Government is an object. It is not a person that is able to love me or hate me.

That sort of talk that the government is a person belongs with your tin foil hat.

You say you do not believe in free handouts, but here you are on a forum that is charitably provided in Dave's honor. Moreover, if you have donated or have not donated, you are still chittering on a board that is indeed donor based and provided for all, save the worst of trolls.

Your argument is that of deception. Specifically, it is a View from Nowhere deception.

You are shameful as an industrialist. We do not need your sorts in USAmerica. We do not need your sorts on Earth. Do not go to China. Do not go to Africa. Your sort of corruption you peddle is not wanted.

[Nitro Express]

Let me explain something to you, Nitro. Government is an object. It is not a person that is able to love me or hate me.

That sort of talk that the government is a person belongs with your tin foil hat.

You say you do not believe in free handouts, but here you are on a forum that is charitably provided in Dave's honor. Moreover, if you have donated or have not donated, you are still chittering on a board that is indeed donor based and provided for all, save the worst of trolls.

But your argument is that of deception. Specifically, it is a View from Nowhere deception.

You are shameful as an industrialist. We do not need your sorts in USAmerica. We do not need your sorts on Earth. Do not go to China. Do not go to Africa. Your sort of corruption you peddle is not wanted.

Government is power. It's not eloquence or persuasion. It's power and it's a dangerous servant and a terrifying master. That's why we have so many checks and balances on that power.

What's your problem? You see work and self-sufficientcy as evil? I hate to break it to you but the government system is failing due to rampant corruption in it. Who is going to take care of you when the government can't? See the problem. My advice is you better learn to take care of yourself, find some people around you who you can work with because the Titanic is sinking due to too much theft, lies, and corruption.

If anything I'm trying to help people see reality instead of the illusion the politicians sell. They won't take care of you, they will only take care of themselves.

[Blaze]

Indeed persons of the government can become corrupt. And of those persons, people can hold them to right or arrange for rightness of their soul. Government is not a servant nor master. Nor is it absolutely dangerous or terrifying.

Nevertheless, what happened to your contentious words of the elderly and children should suffer for your vain glory, how the menfolk should suffer their mate and newborns in birth, and how cancer should be left unchecked all for your greed?

There is no system of this Earth that is free of corruption. Nevertheless, any government that actively impedes corruption is better than a government that pretends it is above corruption.

You ignobly lie by omission.