ron paul=awesome/kickass?

[knuckleboner]

You're underestimating me...

I do have a somewhat informed view of american elections, and based on my observations the game is rigged and corrupted by big money...

But the difference between Paul and Obama or Romney or anyone else, is that Paul can answer a negative attack with clear, well thought out reasons of why he does or does not support this or that, as opposed to reading it off a teleprompter or sticking his finger in the political wind...

i'm not underestimating you. i just thought that it was a little infantile to call bullshit on the fact that once negative ads go up against ron paul, his ratings will drop a bit. that's just common sense.

and i have no doubt that he'll do a good job answering. but unfortunately, even, negative ads work regardless of how well one responds. the electoral process may or may not be rigged, but the electorate is definitely not always rational. and if you put it out there that ron paul wants to kill medicare and social security, backed with a few of his statements (even taken out of context), it will harm him, regardless. all of the time he spends trying to defend is time he could've spent telling why you should elect him. and voters are notoriously selfish and irrational when it comes to social security and medicare. if obama or the PACs dump $50 million on ads in florida about ron paul's attacks on medicare and social security, it's a given that florida goes for obama. might not be fair. but fact ain't always fair.

[Dr. Love]

Ron Paul Upsets Santorum In Missouri Caucuses Buoyed By Huge Youth Turnout

Ron Paul emerged victorious in the Missouri caucus due to his unmatched grassroots organization and his ability to turn out the youth vote.

The final outcome of Missouri’s lengthy caucus process may not be known for months. Early results, however, indicate that Ron Paul may well walk away from the state with the most delegates. Yesterday, his supporters overwhelmed the largest pooled caucus – Jackson county, responsible for sending 179 delegates to the state and congressional district conventions – winning over two-thirds of the available delegate slots. Mr. Paul also swept St. Louis, winning all of the city’s 36 delegates.

Missouri’s second and third largest caucuses, which convened last Saturday, reported similar results. In Greene county (111 delegates), Paul backers won nearly 60% of the delegate slots. In St. Charles (147 delegates), they so thoroughly dominated that the county GOP chair, allegedly a Santorum supporter, adjourned the meeting and called in the police to prevent the election from taking place.

In each of these counties, Paul supporters were outnumbered by Santorum supporters by at least 4-to-1*. Against these daunting odds, the Ron Paulers emerged victorious due to their unmatched grassroots organization and their ability to turn out the youth vote. In Greene county, party insiders said they had “never seen so many young people at a Republican caucus.”

Missouri’s results – a shot in the arm for the Paul campaign – have led many observers to conclude that Mr. Paul’s caucus strategy is working better than they had anticipated. His strong performance follows several events in recent weeks that suggest that Ron Paul supporters – energized by the message of limited government and fiscal conservatism – are quickly taking over the leadership of the Republican party at the state and local levels across the country.

Earlier this month, in Las Vegas, Paul supporters were elected to two-thirds of the board positions in the Clark County Republican Party after winning more county convention delegates than any other candidate at the caucuses – including Mitt Romney. Meanwhile, in Iowa, the state co-chair of the Paul campaign was elected as the chairman of the Iowa Republican Party in February. Last week, Paul supporters swept all the delegate slots in two of Seattle’s largest legislative district conventions.

Such accomplishments belie the mainstream media’s efforts to marginalize Ron Paul’s candidacy. The Associated Press’s projections, for example, report the Texas congressman as being last in the delegate count. Election analysts, however, insist that those projections are driven by a failure to understand the rules governing delegate allocation in caucus states. Josh Putnam, election expert and professor of political science, agrees. The AP delegate count, he admits, is based on “a fantasy proportional allocation of delegates in the non-binding caucus states.”

Heading into the Missouri caucuses, the New York Times reported that Rick Santorum was "frantically wooing voters" in an attempt to secure a "second victory." Since then, the Times' caucus blog has maintained complete silence about Ron Paul's unexpectedly strong performance in the state.

With his likely victory in Missouri, Mr. Paul has shown once again that his campaign – fueled by the passion and determination of millions of grassroots supporters across the country – should not be written off too quickly. He has more than doubled his voter base since 2008, intends to compete aggressively in Texas and California, and continues to upend the establishment narrative at every turn. Regardless of who wins the Republican nomination, all available evidence suggests that the Ron Paul movement will continue to be a significant force in American politics for decades to come.

* In Missouri’s Feb. 7 primary – meaningless, since it awarded zero delegates - the ratio of Santorum votes to Paul votes was 3.8 in Jackson county, 4.3 in St. Charles county, and 4.5 in Greene county. Ron Paul won the majority of the county-level delegates in Jackson and Greene counties, and is expected to do the same in St. Charles when it holds its rescheduled caucus on April 10.

Missouri doesn't matter anyway



Who cares if RP winds up winning there

[Dr. Love]

dude, i totally agree with you on that. in a general election, ron paul would do better than most people think he would. though he'd still lose by a decent amount. that's not necessarily an attack on paul as much as to say that the populace isn't ready for a libertarian president. but whereas many people think he'd be slaughtered, i think he'd clearly overperform.

and, as i said before, PLEASE don't assume my (speculative) analysis means i think you should stop your support. the knuckleboner's in this for the debate, not to influence.

I'd like to think he wouldn't lose to Obama, as he can outflank him on the left and right. What makes me more happy right now is that we are taking fighting to take control of the local and state levels of the GOP. If we can change things, at these levels, eventually we can change them at the national level. Everywhere it seems like RP people are getting themselves elected to local and county GOP offices (as much as they can).

[Nitro Express]

We just have to realize we really don't have a free press anymore. It's biased one way or the other and it always supports banking industry blessed candidates. They finance both sides of the isle. We have had republican presidents and we have had democratic presidents and the result is the same. More wars, more consolidation of businesses, and more government intrusion. Obama hasn't really done anything different than what Bush/Cheney would have done. We got more corporate bailouts, we got more wars, we got more government/corporate schemes thanks to Obamacare. British Petroleum pretty much got to do whatever the hell it wanted.

It all still looks like bullets, bombs, banks, and oil to me no matter who sits in the oval office.

If you have anyone who is going to break that pattern of course they were going to be ignored and the public told they have no chance in winning. I hear this all the time. Ron Paul can't win. The question is this the actual truth or is it someone just saying that to discourage people from supporting Ron Paul? He actually seems more popular than what the press is letting on.

[Dr. Love]

Ron paul rallies are in the thousands. Santorum/Romney/Gingrich rallies are in the dozens/hundreds at the most. Problem is that there's a lot more people that make their decision based on what they see at the news than those that go to see the candidates.

[Dr. Love]

St. Charles GOP on camera talking about manipulating caucus outcomes in spite of whomever has the majority

[Dr. Love]

Since I just know you guys are as energized by these updates as I am ... Missouri is progressing into the district conventions, and guess what -- Ron Paul just won the 5th! And guess who got absolutely zero delegates - Missouri Primary winner Rick Santorum.

Here's an update from the Caucus Chairman:

"Yes, We Did!!!

"Not only was I elected Caucus Chairman on the first vote but after a five and a half hour caucus with 1012 people in attendance, we won 2/3rds of the delegates for Dr. Ron Paul. The other third went to Mitt Romney.

"Bottom line was that we only had about 400 votes, not enough to fully control the delegates but by pulling in another 200 votes from the Romney people, we then had a majority to control the caucus. Even then, it was definitely a fight. And being the Chair, a fight I could not even help with.

"Our floor captains had headsets on so they could communicate on the floor of the caucus. We were so organized and well scripted it went really smooth. Of course the Santorum and Gingrich people had an organized slate as well, and put up a fight over the rules - amendment after amendment. It was clear their goal was to tire us out so our people would leave. But the longer we went, the less numbers THEY had. NEVER underestimate a Ron Paul Liberty voter in a caucus. We will stay until we are dead! I would guess that the other 3 campaigns list about 160 voters between them as the day wore on, we only lost about 12.

"There was a bit of anger from the Santorum folks that the Romney and Paul folks were making a deal to control the slate of delegates. Let them be angry - THEY also made a deal with the Gingrich folks AND they sent negotiators to me at the edge of the stage AS WE ARE VOTING ON THE FIRST SLATE, to talk the Paul camp into switching over to work with them. I told the guy that he was too late; not a chance - a deal is a deal, my integrity and ethics are on the line - where were you first thing this morning? You knew your numbers or should have known them.

"So they can scream about deal making all they want, but they were also dealing because they did not have the numbers. In politics, numbers are important on votes - make sure you are dealing with the people with ENOUGH numbers to help you, but NOT ENOUGH to over rule you. We made a very good deal for each of our campaigns and after I get the caucus certified by the state party, which should be Wednesday at the latest, I can tell you more. But I want THIS in the bag before I share any more details that might jeopardize the deal. Yes, there is more to tell. Dr. Paul is in great shape in the 5th District of Missouri."

[ELVIS]

Missouri Primary winner pRick Santorum.

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[Dr. Love]

My Adventure as a Ron Paul Delegate: The Media Gets It Wrong
by John Connolly

As I stated in my first post, there is a vast difference between a straw poll and a caucus. Read that post if you want to learn more how that works.

But now that I voted today [March 24] as a precinct delegate at the Jefferson County convention, I’m going to give you numbers, but also going to tell you how bad the process was and how the caucus at one point almost came to a complete halt. I will also give you my thoughts on how this is looking to play out. I will also tell you what I witnessed as to what the average Ron Paul supporter type and this will hopefully give you a better picture than the media is throwing out there.

First off, the media is reporting false information. I have not seen some of the local rags, but it is reported that the local media is taking their cue from the mainstream and getting it all wrong too.

The reality is that the State of Washington may not go to Romney. The delegates picked through the caucus process are definitely, in my experience, at the precinct and now at the county level, heavily weighting to Ron Paul – so much for the electability problem. It just looks as if the more people try to use that unsubstantiated argument, the more Ron Paul seems to do better.

OK. You want numbers to back it up. Here is the data from Jefferson County – my county.

Of the 115 precinct delegates selected only 31 chose to put their name in the hat to become County Delegates for the State Convention which happens May 30th through June 2nd. Why so few people? Because many can’t make it on those days or do not have the funds to travel. Interesting that it can come to that level of sacrifice, which I have stated is the strength of the average Ron Paul supporter. It takes time and money to be at the state caucus and even more so at the national convention in Florida in August. I’m thinking the Ron Paul supporter is going to pull the underdog with his or her own cash more than any other supporter for any other candidate.

Breaking this 31 down here is what we have.
Ron Paul – 17
Mitt Romney – 8
Rick Santorum – 4
Newt Gingrich – 2

So before we even vote on the 8 open delegate slots, we are more than 50% in the majority for Ron Paul across the precincts in our county. Incidentally from what I understand, 3 other slots were closed and automatically filled by county GOP chair and a couple other board members. Yes. Technically they are the establishment and I am not sure of their favorite candidates. Not even going to guess on that.

Now in filling the 8 slots, the voting process was a completely complicated process and unnecessarily so. The head person at one point was telling the 115 delegate voters that only the 31 state candidates could vote. They actually had to check the RULES! This is like saying that the four GOP candidates can only vote for themselves! I was baffled by the lack of organization. At one point a former Pan Am flight attendant just took control and started getting things organized. The chairman got back on track after awhile, so they ended up following the rules and selecting County Delegates legitimately.
So it took 3 ballot rounds of voting. I will probably never understand why they use the process of elimination as the method – but they did. It’s probably easier to follow if you are used to High School Basketball District Championships, but I digress.

The first round tossed out 5 candidates. We are down to 26.
The second round tossed out another handful and one of the candidates won the first of the 8 County Delegate slots. Now we are down to about 18 left.
The third round filled the other 7 positions.
The final tally for the 8 open positions,
Ron Paul – 7
Mitt Romney – 1
The other guys – 0

I am curious. If the other counties are having similar results, what do you think the State Convention is going to look like? This is only one state, but it appears from the YouTube videos and other reports out there this is happening in other states (Nevada/Colorado and more).
As for the demographic, I cannot give you hard numbers as I did not go and ask each person how old they were, but I will tell you this, this county has a LARGE senior citizen population and most of the people at the convention there today, roughly 90% were over the age of 50. So we got all this Ron Paul success from a bunch of elderly educated, likely non-pot smoking crowd? How will MSNBC or Fox spin that madness?

Lastly, I think it is going to be a bit difficult for the one Romney Delegate, to stand up with the other seven Ron Paul delegates and say Ron Paul is not electable. Just sayin’.
John Connolly is a software developer and avid sushi eater in Washington State.

more RP victories... this time in Washington.

http://consultingbyrpm.com/blog/2012/03/guest-post-my-adventure-as-a-ron-paul-delegate.html

[LoungeMachine]

So RP won?



Thank God that's over......

[FORD]

So Ron Paul won the Repuke delegates in Jefferson County?

This is a county with ONE incorporated city, Port Townsend. And if you have ever been to Port Townsend, you would know it is anything BUT a Republican stronghold. Very cool little town actually. So you had a "Republican caucus" where the locals chose the guy who is the least like a post 80s Repuke. A guy who they could at least agree with on two or three things.

But it's not going to matter worth a shit when they go to the state convention which will be dominated by the King County corporatist Repuke Chris Dunce/Craig McCaw/Dino Rossi establishment types, and the Kolob dog abuser is guaranteed to take the state party.

[ELVIS]

[knuckleboner]

Lemme ax you dis, palmboner...

How do you think Paul would fare running independent against Romney and Obama ??

How 'bout Sanitorum and Obama ??

well, the knuckleboner's speculation is that ron paul pulls more votes from otherwise republicans than otherwise democrats. many of his supporters won't vote for any of the other candidates. but at the end of the day, a ron paul independent run hurts the republicans. either way, though, he winds up like perot. pulls 20% or so of the population, but zero electoral votes.

but at the end of the day, as an independent, i think he guarantees an obama victory. which is why he won't run as an independent. he knows that he doesn't have an actual shot at winning the presidency. he's in the race for 2 reasons, 1) because he wants to get his message out, and 2) to set up rand in 2016. if romney wins, rand will carry on the paul support in 2020. if obama wins, ron will claim that republicans need to listen to something new, his message, now carried on by rand, not the same old, same old which wound up electing a democrat.

[knuckleboner]

I'd like to think he wouldn't lose to Obama, as he can outflank him on the left and right. What makes me more happy right now is that we are taking fighting to take control of the local and state levels of the GOP. If we can change things, at these levels, eventually we can change them at the national level. Everywhere it seems like RP people are getting themselves elected to local and county GOP offices (as much as they can).

nah, obama'd get him hands down. the medicare / social security stuff's enough by itself. i'm not saying it's fair, but it would doom a republican candidate against a democrat. the traditional democratic base wouldn't switch to paul because he's better on the wars. the entitlements, education spending, etc. is enough to keep them voting democrat. and the republican base won't warm to paul, either, because he's too soft for them on national security.

so the only question is, can paul pull enough independents to make up for his eroded base. doubtful.

mind you, a good part of this is because we're such a 2-party system. i think obama's done a decent job (given extraordinarily tough circumstances) but even still, i was hoping bloomberg said fuck it and went in on a 3rd party ticket. he wouldn't win. but he has the money and clout to possibly get a 3rd party into a viable position. and i definitey support that. which means, i may disagree with the policies, but good for the state/local ron paul crowd. new ideas are needed.

[Nitro Express]

The mistake Ron Paul has made is being to laise faire. Both the Republicans and Democrats have their die hard base that will vote the party line no matter what. Instead of saying he's going to get rid of the FDA and EPA just say he's going to clean them up and fix the problems. The real trick to fixing things and he's right here is to take over the money issuing role from the Federal Reserve. A good percentage of the debt we owe is to the FED. The FED has been caught breaking national and international banking laws and an audit surely would show abuses. Then have the Treasury Department issue no interest money and give it interest free to the commercial banks so they can lend it out. That solves a good share of the debt and money problem and gets the economy going. Then he can start cutting out a lot of the waste in the executive branch and start bringing the troops home. The key to the money is you can't print too much and you have to have enough to make the economy work.

What we have now is a congress issuing money in the form of debt. Debt is the money of today and all that does is saddle the tax payer with centuries of debt with more tax money being taken to pay it. It's as bad of a financial system as you can have because eventually everyone becomes a debt slave and then you are going to have a brain drain because people will just leave the country since being here no longer has any benefits. Then you are looking at a situation where the government builds a wall to keep people in. LOL! Sound familiar?

I figure if Obama or Romney get in they will have another $5 Trillion in debt ran up in the next presidential term. So much of this money we are borrowing is unaccounted for. Much has gone overseas. So really even as wasteful as a lot of these government programs are, they are nothing compared to the military spending waste and the banking bailout scams. We need to get that shit under control ASAP!

With interest free government issued money everyone in the country could be given a place to live and have their basic living expenses paid. If you want to paint paintings you can do that. If you want to watch porn all day and masturbate. Fine. You can do that too. That will keep the lazy people happy and then you have opportunities for the go getters to chase their dreams but as long as you have enough money but not too much you won't have run away bubbles like you do when central banks go crazy. They want to build the economy up so everyone buys into the bubble and then defaults and then they come in later and buy everything up cheap. Controlling that interest rate and issuing money is probably the most powerful man made thing on the planet.