ron paul=awesome/kickass?

[Nickdfresh]

I thought we were just helping a coalition to provide a no-fly-zone only?...

Why would you "think" that?

[sadaist]

Why would you "think" that?

Obamas own words. You mean we can't take everything a politician says as truth? Hey, maybe that's what the new VH album title means.

[knuckleboner]

Obamas own words. You mean we can't take everything a politician says as truth? Hey, maybe that's what the new VH album title means.

and the winner for best post political thread on a van halen message board goes to...sadaist. congrats!

[knuckleboner]

I think this kind of glosses over his first 2 years where he had majorities in the house and senate and pre-emptively conceded items to the republicans. And then, with the 2010 elections, he lost control of the house and close on the senate -- and he deserved to -- because he couldn't effectively make the case for where he wanted to go, and people were upset with his direction, and ultimately put the opposition in power. He could have campaigned from a position of power and authority to drive an agenda. Presidents in the past have done this much, much more effectively.

What you're saying sounds nice but I really think it's kind of apologetic about what happened and lets Obama off the hook. The buck stops with him. Leadership is about ownership, responsibility, and ultimately, accountability.

He hasn't owned the situation. He hasn't proactively pushed a vision to resolve the situation, so ultimately, he's accountable for the situation. It may have crashed before he became President, but he still could have owned it more effectively.

well, i think you're being a little bit overly harsh, but i'd generally agree with your point.

yes, obama has not blown my political socks off in large part because i don't think he led enough, so fair point.

but again, i think that's somewhat mitigaged by the fact that it was a really challenging time with intractable opponents. and remember, in the senate, he had 60 votes only for a very short time. franken wasn't seated immediately, and kennedy died before too long. sure, snowe and collins would cross party lines, but only if it was a relatively moderate issue.

it was hard enough to get energy legislation (cap and trade) through the much more democratic house. the senate was unlikely to touch it. now, could obama have pushed harder? sure. and maybe that's a fault. but on the other hand, spending political capital only goes so far.

that said, again, i generally agree with you. but for me, it's why i'm not gung ho for obama, but given the circumstances i still think he did a reasonably good job, especially considering the alternatives.


(and by the way, i was going to ask who let the 2 conspiracy theorists in here, but then i remembered this was "a ron paul is awesome" thread...)

[Nickdfresh]

Obamas own words. You mean we can't take everything a politician says as truth? Hey, maybe that's what the new VH album title means.

Initially, that's what it was. When the British and French air forces began running out of ammo (bombs), things changed. The U.S. did provide an enormous amount of logistical know-how and support, but he was essentially correct that very little in the way was done in direct action by U.S. forces...

[Dr. Love]

well, that was disappointing, especially after he did in the first two, but I suppose it's a different electorate/dynamic. I don't think he'll get any delegates. I think he'll skip FL and head on to the caucus states next.

[ELVIS]

It's almost a direct correlation to how much you spend on TV ads...

But yeah, looks like Paul is basically planning on ignoring Florida...

And I don't see how Santorum gets any support...

As far as Romoney, I'm not 100% sure I'd vote for him over Obama...

[Dr. Love]

I don't plan on voting for Romney, Gringrich, Santorum or Obama...

[LoungeMachine]

RON PAUL'S ONLY PRAYER

http://www.americanselect.org/official-documents

[Seshmeister]

SEAL Team 6, unit that killed Osama bin Laden, died in helicopter crash

Saturday, August 6, 2011

The Associated Press reported that the majority of the 31 American troops killed Saturday when the Taliban shot down a military helicopter over Afghanistan were members of SEAL Team 6, the elite team that killed Osama bin Laden in May.

Afghan President Hamid Karzai delivered news of the 38 total fatalities, the highest single-day U.S. death toll in the decade of U.S. military involvement in Afghanistan.

The AP cited only “AP sources” in reporting that the dead troops were part of SEAL Team 6. NATO acknowledged that the crash had happened, but did not give a reason why, or release names yet. NATO has also not released their own fatality count.


The elite special forces group came to the public’s attention this spring, when details of the raid on bin Laden’s compound were leaked to an awestruck country.

The casualties were from the same unit but NOT the same people. There are 120 in the unit.

You need a new conspiracy.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2023123/Special-forces-helicopter-shot-Afghanistan-mission-rescue-fellow-Navy-SEALs.html

[LoungeMachine]

Sesh...

You're really going to present FACTS to Swamp Boy?



Waste of keystrokes

[ELVIS]

I just posted a news article...

The conspiracy is that the Obama got Osama story is a lie...

[Dr. Love]

Guess I should start looking at Rand Paul's positions :P

[LoungeMachine]

Guess I should start looking at Rand Paul's positions :P

2016 isn't that far away....

[ELVIS]

Guess I should start looking at Rand Paul's positions :P

No, you should sign up with the Campaign For Liberty and continue to promote the cause...

Freedom is infectous and the movement can only continue to grow from here...