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Thread: ron paul=awesome/kickass?

  1. #1241
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    GRAPH: Obama ‘Withdrawal’ Plan Would Leave More Troops In Afghanistan Than When He Began His Presidency
    By Zaid Jilani on Jun 22, 2011 at 11:03 am
    Today, President Obama is expected to announce the withdrawal of as many as 33,000 troops from the war in Afghanistan by the end of 2012. While this announcement is largely being portrayed as a serious reduction of troops, it is important to look at the numbers in context.
    ThinkProgress has assembled the following graph showing that if the reductions are carried out as planned, the United States would still have far more troops in Afghanistan than it did when Obama came into office and more than at any point during former president George W. Bush’s administration:


    This means that the troop reduction would not put us much closer to actually ending the war by the end of 2012. Rather this would simply scale back the second surge of 30,000 troops that President Obama announced in December 2009. It would also maintain the first surge of 17,000 troops Obama ordered upon entering office. This comes at a time when a record number of Americans want to end the war in Afghanistan and the costs of which are putting the United States deeper into debt.
    http://thinkprogress.org/security/20...tan/?mobile=nc

    In other news... we continue to bankrupt ourselves with a war we should no longer be involved in.
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    Ron was on campus here yesterday for a rally. I've never been to any kind of political rally but I figured I'd go check it out. The auditorium was completely packed which surprised me. I was/am pretty indifferent to Paul and it was interesting to hear him speak in person. I'm not a big fan of his stance on the Federal Reserve, although I share his frustration with our seemingly broken system. I do fully agree with him in cutting spending abroad and investing domestically first and foremost. Also, while I lean to a pro-choice stance, I appreciate his stance to not let the federal government regulate abortion policy. I find him to be a pretty interesting figure, surely more interesting than Romney the robot or Santorum the "Santorum." Although we had an open primary today, I did not vote. I'm not a Republican and I am not comfortable with the idea of ambushing the Republicans with apathetic votes.
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  4. #1243
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    Aside from the bottom tag (which is wishful thinking), yes, 4k people is a big deal in context.


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  6. #1245
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    This was my vantage point from MSU yesterday:


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    that's cool!

  8. #1247
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    For those of you that think that what we have now is okay, or that we should continue choosing the "lesser of two evils":

    Goodbye, First Amendment: ‘Trespass Bill’ will make protest illegal

    Just when you thought the government couldn’t ruin the First Amendment any further: The House of Representatives approved a bill on Monday that outlaws protests in instances where some government officials are nearby, whether or not you even know it.

    The US House of Representatives voted 388-to-3 in favor of H.R. 347 late Monday, a bill which is being dubbed the Federal Restricted Buildings and Grounds Improvement Act of 2011. In the bill, Congress officially makes it illegal to trespass on the grounds of the White House, which, on the surface, seems not just harmless and necessary, but somewhat shocking that such a rule isn’t already on the books. The wording in the bill, however, extends to allow the government to go after much more than tourists that transverse the wrought iron White House fence.

    Under the act, the government is also given the power to bring charges against Americans engaged in political protest anywhere in the country.

    Under current law, White House trespassers are prosecuted under a local ordinance, a Washington, DC legislation that can bring misdemeanor charges for anyone trying to get close to the president without authorization. Under H.R. 347, a federal law will formally be applied to such instances, but will also allow the government to bring charges to protesters, demonstrators and activists at political events and other outings across America.

    The new legislation allows prosecutors to charge anyone who enters a building without permission or with the intent to disrupt a government function with a federal offense if Secret Service is on the scene, but the law stretches to include not just the president’s palatial Pennsylvania Avenue home. Under the law, any building or grounds where the president is visiting — even temporarily — is covered, as is any building or grounds “restricted in conjunction with an event designated as a special event of national significance."
    It’s not just the president who would be spared from protesters, either.

    Covered under the bill is any person protected by the Secret Service. Although such protection isn’t extended to just everybody, making it a federal offense to even accidently disrupt an event attended by a person with such status essentially crushes whatever currently remains of the right to assemble and peacefully protest.

    Hours after the act passed, presidential candidate Rick Santorum was granted Secret Service protection. For the American protester, this indeed means that glitter-bombing the former Pennsylvania senator is officially a very big no-no, but it doesn’t stop with just him. Santorum’s coverage under the Secret Service began on Tuesday, but fellow GOP hopeful Mitt Romney has already been receiving such security. A campaign aide who asked not to be identified confirmed last week to CBS News that former House Speaker Newt Gingrich has sought Secret Service protection as well. Even former contender Herman Cain received the armed protection treatment when he was still in the running for the Republican Party nod.

    In the text of the act, the law is allowed to be used against anyone who knowingly enters or remains in a restricted building or grounds without lawful authority to do so, but those grounds are considered any area where someone — rather it’s President Obama, Senator Santorum or Governor Romney — will be temporarily visiting, whether or not the public is even made aware. Entering such a facility is thus outlawed, as is disrupting the orderly conduct of “official functions,” engaging in disorderly conduct “within such proximity to” the event or acting violent to anyone, anywhere near the premises. Under that verbiage, that means a peaceful protest outside a candidate’s concession speech would be a federal offense, but those occurrences covered as special event of national significance don’t just stop there, either. And neither does the list of covered persons that receive protection.

    Outside of the current presidential race, the Secret Service is responsible for guarding an array of politicians, even those from outside America. George W Bush is granted protection until ten years after his administration ended, or 2019, and every living president before him is eligible for life-time, federally funded coverage. Visiting heads of state are extended an offer too, and the events sanctioned as those of national significance — a decision that is left up to the US Department of Homeland Security — extends to more than the obvious. While presidential inaugurations and meeting of foreign dignitaries are awarded the title, nearly three dozen events in all have been considered a National Special Security Event (NSSE) since the term was created under President Clinton. Among past events on the DHS-sanctioned NSSE list are Super Bowl XXXVI, the funerals of Ronald Reagan and Gerald Ford, most State of the Union addresses and the 2008 Democratic and Republican National Conventions.

    With Secret Service protection awarded to visiting dignitaries, this also means, for instance, that the federal government could consider a demonstration against any foreign president on American soil as a violation of federal law, as long as it could be considered disruptive to whatever function is occurring.

    When thousands of protesters are expected to descend on Chicago this spring for the 2012 G8 and NATO summits, they will also be approaching the grounds of a National Special Security Event. That means disruptive activity, to whichever court has to consider it, will be a federal offense under the act.

    And don’t forget if you intend on fighting such charges, you might not be able to rely on evidence of your own. In the state of Illinois, videotaping the police, under current law, brings criminals charges. Don’t fret. It’s not like the country will really try to enforce it — right?

    On the bright side, does this mean that the law could apply to law enforcement officers reprimanded for using excessive force on protesters at political events? Probably. Of course, some fear that the act is being created just to keep those demonstrations from ever occuring, and given the vague language on par with the loose definition of a “terrorist” under the NDAA, if passed this act is expected to do a lot more harm to the First Amendment than good.

    United States Representative Justin Amash (MI-03) was one of only three lawmakers to vote against the act when it appeared in the House late Monday. Explaining his take on the act through his official Facebook account on Tuesday, Rep. Amash writes, “The bill expands current law to make it a crime to enter or remain in an area where an official is visiting even if the person does not know it's illegal to be in that area and has no reason to suspect it's illegal.”

    “Some government officials may need extraordinary protection to ensure their safety. But criminalizing legitimate First Amendment activity — even if that activity is annoying to those government officials — violates
    our rights,” adds the representative.

    Now that the act has overwhelmingly made it through the House, the next set of hands to sift through its pages could very well be President Barack Obama; the US Senate had already passed the bill back on February 6. Less than two months ago, the president approved the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012, essentially suspending habeas corpus from American citizens. Could the next order out of the Executive Branch be revoking some of the Bill of Rights? Only if you consider the part about being able to assemble a staple of the First Amendment, really. Don’t worry, though. Obama was, after all, a constitutional law professor. When he signed the NDAA on December 31, he accompanied his signature with a signing statement that let Americans know that, just because he authorized the indefinite detention of Americans didn’t mean he thought it was right.

    Should President Obama suspend the right to assemble, Americans might expect another apology to accompany it in which the commander-in-chief condemns the very act he authorizes. If you disagree with such a decision, however, don’t take it to the White House. Sixteen-hundred Pennsylvania Avenue and the vicinity is, of course, covered under this act.
    http://rt.com/usa/news/348-act-tresspass-buildings-437/

    Ask yourself: Do you think Obama will sign this bill? Do you think he should?

    If he does, will you continue to blindly accept him as he continues to shred the constitution and bill of rights, like his predecessor?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Love View Post
    They seeth him rolling in his horseless carriage, they profoundly smite him!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Love View Post
    Do you mean GDP or tax revenues (income)?

    Also, which candidates actually put forward plans that accomplish that goal?
    responsibly? none.
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    There, we disagree.

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    Did he win, did he win??????



    Oh, boy I hope he won......
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Love View Post
    Aside from the bottom tag (which is wishful thinking), yes, 4k people is a big deal in context.

    Romney.....



    But those damn "election results" are so fucking biased......

  16. #1254
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    Lounge, you're smarter than this sort of thing.



    I think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Love View Post
    Lounge, you're smarter than this sort of thing.



    I think.
    No.

    Doc, I've read quite a few of your posts lately. My impression is you know quite a bit about both macro and microeconomics, unlike LM and KB you're debating with.

    At this point in time, I think Romney will win the nomination, think Paul might be on the ticket, hope Santorum and Gingrich go fuck themselves, and wish Chris Cristie or Mitch Daniels would run.

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    I think a Romney/Paul ticket could be a legitimate contender as a lot of moderates view Paul favorably. It could make the race very interesting.

    Interesting look at the numbers Paul took from Ingham County in MI yesterday (Ingham is where MSU is, where he had 4,000+ on Monday):

    Romney: 10,140 (41.4)
    Santorum: 8,170 (34.4)
    Paul: 3,128 (13.2)

    It's as if all of his supporters were in the auditorium! Most likely though, a majority of the people were moderates who didn't plan on voting in the primary, but rather they wanted to hear what he'd say (like me).
    Last edited by VH Drummer; 02-29-2012 at 09:08 AM.

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    I honestly have no idea how Sanitorum has those numbers...

    Can the game possibly be rigged that much ??
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELVIS View Post
    I honestly have no idea how Sanitorum has those numbers...

    Can the game possibly be rigged that much ??
    Supposedly a high percentage of Dems voted in the MI Republican primary, just to upset the apple cart.

    I can't blame them, I voted in Virginia's Democratic Primary in 2008. Perfectly legal. All that is required is the chance that you MAY vote Democratic in the general election.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBadBrian View Post
    Supposedly a high percentage of Dems voted in the MI Republican primary, just to upset the apple cart.

    I can't blame them, I voted in Virginia's Democratic Primary in 2008. Perfectly legal. All that is required is the chance that you MAY vote Democratic in the general election.
    Untrue (even though Romney cried about it - and made more ironic by the fact that he admits to doing it himself in the past). Only 3% more than 2008 (10% as opposed to 7%). Not enough to make a huge difference. It's likely more (in MI at least) about Mitten's "let the auto industry fail" statement, and the fact that Evangelicals hate Mormons more than they hate Catholics overall.
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    Well, Ron Paul is a Christian, he just doesn't go around forcing it on people and trying to tell them how to live...

    Must be a lot of gullible Catholics...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ELVIS View Post
    Well, Ron Paul is a Christian, he just doesn't go around forcing it on people and trying to tell them how to live...

    Must be a lot of gullible Catholics...
    Last survey of Catholics I saw indicated the majority of them - especially women - think Frothy's insane.

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    Well, there you go...

    Where the fuck are these votes coming from ??

    How many Sanatorum signs and bumper stickers do you see daily...none ??

    Thought so...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ELVIS View Post
    Well, there you go...

    Where the fuck are these votes coming from ??

    How many Sanatorum signs and bumper stickers do you see daily...none ??

    Thought so...
    About as many as the Judas IsKerryot signs I saw in 2004.

    None, in other words.
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    Brethren and Sistren,

    I'm as conservative as they come, and would love nothing more than to see this entire site shut down and all you liberal heathen thrown in jail with all your gay/bi/druggie(except coke)/socialist/fascist/handoutnation/welfare/black/latino/rocker friends....

    But I just found out today that Mitt is somehow "short" for WILLARD?!?!? How the FUCK does one get "Mitt" from WILLARD?!??!! I've just been informed that his MIDDLE name is MITT!!!! Ok, so he was named WILLARD and MITT on PURPOSE?!??! Bad enough he's MORMON, well there's no way in hell I'm gonna live to see the day a motherfucking WILLARD takes the White House... I mean, I'd rather see a BLACK PRESIDENT first!!!! Wait, what?

    That is all.

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    Well, we have half black now, so you never know...

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBadBrian View Post
    Supposedly a high percentage of Dems voted in the MI Republican primary, just to upset the apple cart.

    I can't blame them, I voted in Virginia's Democratic Primary in 2008. Perfectly legal. All that is required is the chance that you MAY vote Democratic in the general election.
    I believe I heard Santorium was robo-calling them too...

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    Quote Originally Posted by conmee View Post
    Brethren and Sistren,

    I'm as conservative as they come, and would love nothing more than to see this entire site shut down and all you liberal heathen thrown in jail with all your gay/bi/druggie(except coke)/socialist/fascist/handoutnation/welfare/black/latino/rocker friends....

    ...
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    But those are our good points.

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    Thumbs down


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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBadBrian View Post
    No.

    Doc, I've read quite a few of your posts lately. My impression is you know quite a bit about both macro and microeconomics, unlike LM and KB you're debating with.

    :
    And yet Doc screwed the pooch by betting me Santorum would get out of the race after NH.....



    Ooops.

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    Brethren and Sistren,

    Economists, like weatherbrethren/weathersistren, are 100% accurate... AFTER THE FACT. How anyone can go through life as an economist is one of life's mysteries. It's all "ceteris paribus" until someone gets hurt.

    Want a rational discussion in this thread/country? Get rid of all the attorneys and economists first.

    That is all.

    Icon~

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    That is uninformed nonsense, JHale. I expected better out of you. You're a smart guy and I hate to see you manipulated like this because someone is pushing your buttons. Don't let your emotions rule you.

    Let me help address some of this. I encourage you to go read up more on it for yourself. Read both sides. Don't let bias and rhetoric overwhelm your good sense of judgement.


    Hate groups: I googled it to see if I could learn about this. I saw a lot of accusations without any supporting references, and I saw a lot of quotes from RP stating he didn't want their support.

    Opposes the civil rights act: Ron Paul doesn't believe the Federal Government should force people to do anything. It has nothing to do with race, it has to do with freedom of choice. He believes that if you don't like a business practices, you should boycott the business... not get the federal government to force them to do what you think is right.

    JBS: ...so...? The worst I could see about them is that a long time ago they said communists were promoting the civil rights act.

    Racist newsletters: this tired old bit, which has been addressed ad naseum. There are so many examples of him standing up for minorities that this really should be put to bed, but then, there's an agenda at play here, and it has little to do with the truth.

    Rosa Parks medal: He voted against it because he felt they shouldn't use taxpayer money for it, and then offered to donate to get her a medal and encouraged the rest of them to be the same.

    Women's rights: Ron Paul doesn't believe in women's rights. Or gay rights. Or men's rights. Or straight rights. He believes everyone has the same rights and we get those rights as individuals, not as part of a group.

    The last 2 sentences are ridiculous. Ron Paul is following the system and playing by the rules. There's no hijacking or ignoring the will of the voters. And there's no plotting - they talk about it openly and constantly.

  37. Thanked Dr. Love for this KICKASS post:

    ELVIS (02-29-2012)


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    Quote Originally Posted by LoungeMachine View Post
    And yet Doc screwed the pooch by betting me Santorum would get out of the race after NH.....



    Ooops.
    I've never been so happy to be wrong. I want him to stay in with Gingrich all the way to the nomination.

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  40. #1274
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    I think her time as secretary of state will do a lot for her national image.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Love View Post
    That is uninformed nonsense, JHale. I expected better out of you. You're a smart guy and I hate to see you manipulated like this because someone is pushing your buttons. Don't let your emotions rule you.

    Let me help address some of this. I encourage you to go read up more on it for yourself. Read both sides. Don't let bias and rhetoric overwhelm your good sense of judgement.



    Hate groups: I googled it to see if I could learn about this. I saw a lot of accusations without any supporting references, and I saw a lot of quotes from RP stating he didn't want their support.

    Opposes the civil rights act: Ron Paul doesn't believe the Federal Government should force people to do anything. It has nothing to do with race, it has to do with freedom of choice. He believes that if you don't like a business practices, you should boycott the business... not get the federal government to force them to do what you think is right.

    JBS: ...so...? The worst I could see about them is that a long time ago they said communists were promoting the civil rights act.

    Racist newsletters: this tired old bit, which has been addressed ad naseum. There are so many examples of him standing up for minorities that this really should be put to bed, but then, there's an agenda at play here, and it has little to do with the truth.

    Rosa Parks medal: He voted against it because he felt they shouldn't use taxpayer money for it, and then offered to donate to get her a medal and encouraged the rest of them to be the same.

    Women's rights: Ron Paul doesn't believe in women's rights. Or gay rights. Or men's rights. Or straight rights. He believes everyone has the same rights and we get those rights as individuals, not as part of a group.

    The last 2 sentences are ridiculous. Ron Paul is following the system and playing by the rules. There's no hijacking or ignoring the will of the voters. And there's no plotting - they talk about it openly and constantly.
    Nicely done and right on the money...

    Gayhale obviously does not care about the truth...



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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBadBrian View Post
    No.

    Doc, I've read quite a few of your posts lately. My impression is you know quite a bit about both macro and microeconomics, unlike LM and KB you're debating with.

    At this point in time, I think Romney will win the nomination, think Paul might be on the ticket, hope Santorum and Gingrich go fuck themselves, and wish Chris Cristie or Mitch Daniels would run.

    ha. opposing the gold standard is considered having a lack of economic understanding? wow.

    and, there is NO CHANCE ron paul is on a ticket. any ticket. his or somebody else's. conservatives are not a big fan of most of paul's policies. they already distrust romney. a romney/paul ticket is a guarantee that enough are disheartened and stay home, thereby assuring an obama reelection.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ELVIS View Post
    Well, there you go...

    Where the fuck are these votes coming from ??

    How many Sanatorum signs and bumper stickers do you see daily...none ??

    Thought so...
    simple politics. republicans who think romney is the best chance to beat obama (and he is) vote for romney, though they're not overly excited about it. the more conservative republicans who can't accept romney see santorum as the only possible conservative option (though, he's got his on negatives, so they're not excited about him, either.)

    in the end, there's plenty of votes for both romney and santorum, but not a lot of enthusiasm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by knuckleboner View Post
    ha. opposing the gold standard is considered having a lack of economic understanding? wow.

    and, there is NO CHANCE ron paul is on a ticket. any ticket. his or somebody else's. conservatives are not a big fan of most of paul's policies. they already distrust romney. a romney/paul ticket is a guarantee that enough are disheartened and stay home, thereby assuring an obama reelection.
    Sometimes I wonder if you guys understand Paul's motivation for being in the race and running as a republican versus 3rd party, which I see pushed so often.

    I don't want Paul to run as 3rd party. Neither does Paul.

    If Paul ran 3rd party, no one would have to talk about him. He wouldn't be in the debates. He wouldn't get all the attention he gets now. For someone who is running an education campaign, this is exactly where he wants to be. He's not going to drop out. He's going to go all the way to Tampa, educating and motivating the next generation of republicans. He absolutely gets killed in the older demographic, but he absolutely kills in my demographic, and younger. He's focused on the future.

    Every person I work with, 40 or less, that cares about politics is a Ron Paul supporter. We talk about it every day at work. The older coworkers aren't fans, but that's fine. We have a civil discussion (something sorely missing around here).

    Ron Paul is someone we all admire and like, but we all recognize he won't be running again. We're looking at the other people out there like him, as well. I have a lot of hope for the future; I have a lot of hope that the US will get back to its principles of liberty and limited government. It won't happen while the baby boomers continue to run things. But their days are numbered.

    Ron Paul's devotees are running for republican offices at the local and state level. Ron Paul's Iowa campaign chair just got elected as Iowa's state GOP chairman.

    So you guys who sit here and say, "omg, ron paul will never win!!" or "Ron Paul should run third party!!" ... you guys don't get it. You don't understand the point of the whole thing.

    Would it be great for Paul to win? I think so. But it probably won't happen. What we want is to get a lot of delegates, and continue to have a platform at the national level to reach more people. Use those delegates to ensure that we get exposure at the national convention, where we can affect the platform of the party and can ensure prime time speaking rights, when the whole nation will be tuning in.

    Ron Paul is averaging anywhere from +50% to +200% turnout at every primary and caucus over 2008. Every single time. He is getting his message out there, and people are listening. That's what matters.

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    Ron Paul said himself the reason he's running as a Republican is he can get on all the ballots that way. If he ran as an independent he would spend all his money trying to get on all the county ballots around the country. Ralph Nader had to have a huge staff and spend a lot of money and he still never could get on all the county ballots. You have to send people to every county in the US and go through all the red tape. It's time consuming and very expensive.
    Hey Jackass! You need to [Register] or log in to view signatures on ROTHARMY.COM!

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    If every person who supported Ron Paul could guarantee me a solid LIBERAL majority in both houses of Congress that would prevent him from enacting the delusional Randtard fairytales, and then we would get the 10% of his agenda that actually MAKES FUCKING SENSE, I'd vote for him in a heartbeat.

    But Ron Paul with the current teabagger congress is unthinkable. Not that Mittens or Frothy the Dog Raper would be much better with this congress. Arguably worse, at least as far as the Iran shit goes.

    Get me a LIBERAL Congress, and I'll campaign for the old racist bastard myself.

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