Gotta love Paul's latest comment on the tornado victims: "F*** 'em!"
Ron Paul: Tornado Victims Should Not Get Federal Aid
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1321690.html
Ron Paul has a message for victims of the tornadoes that killed dozens of people in the South and Midwest: buy insurance.
"There is no such thing as federal money," he said Sunday on CNN’s 'State of the Union.' "Federal money is just what they steal from the states and steal from you and me. The people who live in tornado alley, just as I live in hurricane alley, they should have insurance."
The libertarian-leaning presidential candidate went on to reiterate his opposition to the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) and suggest the National Guard play a key role in the aftermath of natural disasters.
"To say that any accident that happens in the country, send in FEMA, send in the money, the government has all this money--it is totally out of control and it's not efficient," he said.
Paul railed against FEMA last year after wildfires ravaged his home state, Texas, destroying 4,000 homes and killing ten people. He wrote a column in the Houston Chronicle arguing for the agency's elimination, calling it "symptomatic of a blind belief in big government’s ability to do anything and everything for anyone and everyone." Here's an excerpt:
Victims of disasters should get any and all help possible, and there is virtually no limit to the generosity and compassion of good American people after devastation hits. One only need to remember the outpouring after Katrina to know this is true. FEMA, however, did more to get in the way of relief than to actually provide and facilitate it.
The examples are numerous. When the call was put out for volunteer firefighters, they volunteered by the thousands. It was FEMA, for reasons of control and bureaucratic ineptitude, who made sure they were not, in fact allowed to actually help. When a group of firefighters arrived from Houston, instead of being put immediately on the job, they were told to sit around and wait. After waiting for two days doing nothing, they were simply sent home. One thousand volunteer firefighters were sent to Atlanta to undergo sexual harassment training while fires actively raged in the city. The ones that remained through this stupidity were sent to escort the president around or to distribute fliers instead of putting out fires. Computer engineer Jack Harrison was told his skills were needed to rebuild technological infrastructure. After being given the runaround for about two weeks, he was misallocated as head of security on the cruise ship FEMA had leased, when he should have been using his skills to help. All manner of help was turned away or mismanaged by FEMA while people suffered and waited. Even the Red Cross had its hands tied by FEMA.
I have to assume you read the article since you bolded the part where Paul makes his point (and makes it well, I think) against bureaucracies and the charitability of Americans.
I don't see anything objectionable here? He's saying the Federal Government sucks at doing things, and that it should let people that are good at it do it instead. If anything, we should return the money to the states to be able to manage this because they'll do a better job of mobilizing the people to get it done.
At no point does he say "fuck 'em", what he does say is that you have to live intelligently. If you want to live in a disaster zone, fine ... get insurance like any responsible person.
Why do you think the government should subsidize recklessness and poor decision making, jhale?
Why do you think the government should take care of everyone instead of letting people take care of themselves, or charities help when they can't, jhale?
Why does the government have to be the answer to everything, jhale?
http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/05/ro...omneys-family/Romney family members endorse Ron Paul
Texas Rep. Ron Paul on Monday announced that five distant relatives of rival Mitt Romney’s family are endorsing his Republican presidential campaign.
A news release from the Paul campaign boasts of having the support of Ty Romney, Travis Romney, Chad Romney, Jared Romney and Troy Romney. Three of the Romneys — who live in Idaho — will speak on Paul’s behalf during the state’s caucuses on Tuesday.
“I support Ron Paul because he defends the Constitution, loves America and understands what it means to be an American, including the right to live your life any way you want as long as you respect others,” said chiropractor Travis Romney, a second cousin once removed from Mitt Romney.
This isn’t the first time a family member of one of Paul’s rivals announced support for the libertarian-leaning candidate from Texas. Former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum’s nephew, John Garver, penned a column for The Daily Caller endorsing Paul.
As the richest country in the world.....why shouldn't we take care of our own?
Why shouldn't we have disaster relief?
Affordable health care.
Decent schools that educate and prepare our children for the future.
Safe food, air, and water.
Reasonable housing.
Stable employment.
A living wage.
Ron Paul isn't for these things, he's for throwing away any of the decent things we have left and frankly, it's insulting and repulsive.
Just because government has fucked it up with greed, corruption, and inept management doesn't mean these services and program can't work.
It's utter bullshit and the ramblings of a nutty old man saying we shouldn't have disaster relief. When he wants to allow the free markets to regulate themselves.......I assume he means insurance companies who are notorious for refusing to pay claims to disaster victims, too.
The government needs to be fixed but to say every humane program and every decent thing government could do is wrong is stupid.
We as a people seen a need for this and have supported these programs.....the programs are fine it's the idiots that are in charge of them.
Get rid of special interests group, super PAC's and change how campaigns are allowed to be funded.
Get the lazy and apathetic American People off their asses and involved in the government we have and you'd solve 90% of the problems we have.
The problem is.....the American people can't be bothered and want fixes that don't require effort, involvement, or thought. We the People fucked this country up....not government.
Ron Paul agrees: with a combination of local and state oversight coupled with dedicated charities like the red cross and other organizations.
Ron Paul agrees: allow health insurance to be actual insurance that is competed upon, and let regulation occur at the state level.Affordable health care.
Ron Paul agrees: this should be provided at the state level.Decent schools that educate and prepare our children for the future.
Again, Ron Paul agrees: With protected property rights, no one has the right to pollute anyone else's land or water, and this should be strictly controlled. Again, by the states.Safe food, air, and water.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, again ... Ron Paul agrees: The problem with the housing market was that the Federal Reserve inflated it by printing money and artificially keeping interest rates low. There's nothing wrong with housing, except that it was abused by the Fed.Reasonable housing.
I'm starting to think you agree with Ron Paul on a lot of issues, kwame. Ron Paul argues this occurs due to the bubble and bust nature of the economy, again, created by the FedStable employment.
Are you sure you understand RP's positions and aren't a secret supporter? He fights for this every day: Each person has a right to the fruits of their labor, and the way the monetary system is used, your living wage decreases every year as inflation increases and your money becomes worth less until it becomes worthless.A living wage.
I don't think it's possible to be any less correct...Ron Paul isn't for these things, he's for throwing away any of the decent things we have left and frankly, it's insulting and repulsive.
wutJust because government has fucked it up with greed, corruption, and inept management doesn't mean these services and program can't work.
Did you read that before you hit 'post'?
Ron Paul argues that one of the primary functions of government is to enforce contract law. Anyone who breaks contracts should be gone after with extreme prejudice.It's utter bullshit and the ramblings of a nutty old man saying we shouldn't have disaster relief. When he wants to allow the free markets to regulate themselves.......I assume he means insurance companies who are notorious for refusing to pay claims to disaster victims, too.
You really need to think about these things not in terms of how things "should be" but how things are.The government needs to be fixed but to say every humane program and every decent thing government could do is wrong is stupid.
ಠ_ಠWe as a people seen a need for this and have supported these programs.....the programs are fine it's the idiots that are in charge of them.
I agree (though I don't think RP does)Get rid of special interests group, super PAC's and change how campaigns are allowed to be funded.
How do they do that, again?Get the lazy and apathetic American People off their asses and involved in the government we have and you'd solve 90% of the problems we have.
So you're saying ... the government isn't to blame at all?The problem is.....the American people can't be bothered and want fixes that don't require effort, involvement, or thought. We the People fucked this country up....not government.
I can tell you our grandparents and great grandparents never expected the government to give them a new house if it was destroyed. Of course many of them lived in communities that would help each other. Now everyone has been conditioned on thinking the government should do everything for them. It sounds good at first but it changes people in a bad way. Just look at communities that have multiple generations of people on welfare and ask yourself if the government is really helping them.
yep!![]()
http://news.yahoo.com/ron-paul-gets-...181551623.html
Looks like members of Mitt's family are backing Ron Paul. That's saying something because nepotism runs pretty thick in Mormon families.
I still see a need for the government to step in and aid when it's a major disaster......do I agree with FEMA? I do in principle....... FEMA fucked up Katrina but I attribute that more to who Bush appointed and not the agency itself. If we can marshal millions of people overseas to fight wars and do it effectively, why can't we mobilize people and resources here?
With Federal oversight......it goes back in my belief that Washington should decide the bigger issues that involve every American.....let the States decide the dumb shit like gay marriages but regulate health care and have a national benchmark set.......then let the States take it from there.Ron Paul agrees: allow health insurance to be actual insurance that is competed upon, and let regulation occur at the state level.
Nope.....when issues like integration, segregation and other standards have routinely been abused by the States government should step in. There should be a set standard, set by the government to insure that a minimum is being met.Ron Paul agrees: this should be provided at the state level.
Look at how many environmental disasters have been allowed by the States. Here again, enforce a minimum standard and let the Sates take it from there.Again, Ron Paul agrees: With protected property rights, no one has the right to pollute anyone else's land or water, and this should be strictly controlled. Again, by the states.
I agree with the abolition of the Fed but banks got us there, too and that was from free market non regulation........fair lending practices and Wall Street regulation should have a Federal minimum standard and let the States decide from there.At the risk of sounding like a broken record, again ... Ron Paul agrees: The problem with the housing market was that the Federal Reserve inflated it by printing money and artificially keeping interest rates low. There's nothing wrong with housing, except that it was abused by the Fed.
As I've said numerous times, I agree with a lot of what Grandpa Paul has to say......it's the stuff I don't that means I can't support him.I'm starting to think you agree with Ron Paul on a lot of issues, kwame. Ron Paul argues this occurs due to the bubble and bust nature of the economy, again, created by the Fed
Not when a corporations get so big it dictates the market and not the market dictating it. From the railroads, steel, oil companies, Wall Street and on and on. There needs to be government regulations safeguarding us when it effects every American.Are you sure you understand RP's positions and aren't a secret supporter? He fights for this every day: Each person has a right to the fruits of their labor, and the way the monetary system is used, your living wage decreases every year as inflation increases and your money becomes worth less until it becomes worthless.
I think he's less correct about health care, government's role and the free market.I don't think it's possible to be any less correct...
Yes I did.....if government can amass millions of people effectively and wag war......why can't they marshal people and resources to help in our own countrywut
Did you read that before you hit 'post'?
I agree.Ron Paul argues that one of the primary functions of government is to enforce contract law. Anyone who breaks contracts should be gone after with extreme prejudice.
I could ask you the same thing about your support for a man that'll never be PresidentYou really need to think about these things not in terms of how things "should be" but how things are.
?ಠ_ಠ
Does that mean the engagement is off between you twoI agree (though I don't think RP does)
Considering who's in Washington and who's running for election.......it appears the American people don't know either.How do they do that, again?
We get the government that we deserve, you know that.So you're saying ... the government isn't to blame at all?
What ever politicians owned part of the trailer dealerships that sold to FEMA made out like bandits. Maybe these can be used to house tornado victims, that's of course if they haven't rotted away yet.
Fine, have the military provide assistance under local civilian direction. Which they sort of do when they send in the national guard.
I don't know that I agree.With Federal oversight......it goes back in my belief that Washington should decide the bigger issues that involve every American.....let the States decide the dumb shit like gay marriages but regulate health care and have a national benchmark set.......then let the States take it from there.
Nope.....when issues like integration, segregation and other standards have routinely been abused by the States government should step in. There should be a set standard, set by the government to insure that a minimum is being met.Sure, if someone is infringing on your property rights or causing you harm, the government should defend your rights. But there is a difference between taking someone to court over a violation of rights and giving the federal government the power to police everyone.Look at how many environmental disasters have been allowed by the States. Here again, enforce a minimum standard and let the Sates take it from there.
On the education thing, think of it this way: When you get the federal government involved (or government at all), then you have to make it fair, because the government can't push an ideology. Can't teach creationism. Can't teach evolution without intelligent design. Can't teach either without flying spaghetti monsterism.
If you don't involve the government, and give choice back to the people, then they can teach whatever they want.
There's hope for you yet!I agree with the abolition of the Fed but banks got us there, too and that was from free market non regulation........fair lending practices and Wall Street regulation should have a Federal minimum standard and let the States decide from there.
I agree (as does RP, actually) that there should be some regulation and that government should protect free markets. What we have right now, with all its abuses, is not a free market.
I think he can do a better job of explaining his positions. A lot of people take a cursory glance at what he says and thinks "oh he's crazy/horrible/whatever". You can see jhale pop his head in here every once in a while and call the guy a racist and say something like "he didn't want to give rosa parks a medal" or "he didn't support civil rights".As I've said numerous times, I agree with a lot of what Grandpa Paul has to say......it's the stuff I don't that means I can't support him.
And on the face of it you say, "Oh my! He's a bad person! Who wouldn't support that?"
But when you listen to him, and understand why he does what he does, you see a consistency that there is a lot more depth to his reasoning than "this will be hard to explain to voters." I don't know everything you disagree with him on, but I hope you have taken the time to listen and understand what he is saying. I thought he was a crackpot, and got my initial exposure to him doing a little research to get some stuff to post on why I thought he was crazy.
But, I started listening to what he was saying, reading more on it and started to realize the guy was making a lot of sense (to me).
The government doesn't do that. Government creates monopolies these days. Look at the Credit Bureaus. They have a monopoly that no one else can compete with (by law!) and control your financial future. Heck, look at the biggest monopoly of them all: The Federal Reserve. A privately-owned institution (by some of the nation's largest banks) that controls the creation and infusion of money. Nothing is allowed to compete with it.Not when a corporations get so big it dictates the market and not the market dictating it. From the railroads, steel, oil companies, Wall Street and on and on. There needs to be government regulations safeguarding us when it effects every American.
'Effectively' is probably the sticking point. I agree that government can achieve a lot of things. It's just that I don't think it does hardly any of them very well, and they are controlled by and serve the wealthy.Yes I did.....if government can amass millions of people effectively and wag war......why can't they marshal people and resources to help in our own country![]()
I support the cause; RP is just the man in front right now. There will be others after him.I could ask you the same thing about your support for a man that'll never be President![]()
I look at it this way. Most of what RP thinks we should do is going to happen 1 of 2 ways:
1. The way we choose to do it
2. The way we're forced to do it
I'd rather have a choice in the matter
It's the look of disapproval?
Not at all...Does that mean the engagement is off between you two![]()
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Says the man that believes in fairy tales and voted for Bush how many times?
Glass houses, E![]()
You still need a FEMA type program to be able to have the resources to help. Here's a simplistic analogy, you store a flashlight and some batteries in case the lights go out. Shouldn't we have a national storage and staging area? I'd pay that tax.
When insurance companies and illegal billing practices are running rampant. When a small business owner can't afford to insure it's workers, let alone himself, you have an immediate and national problem. The States have failed at this.......when did it become against the law for States to enact it's own health care system? When the States can't govern themselves it's time for the Federal government to step in.....like during Civil Rights era, for example.I don't know that I agree.
Not when huge companies have rigged the system to the point of poisoning people for decades with slow developing diseases like cancer. It's happened 100's of times and in countless places in this country and by having better national regulations it could of been stopped. It's because big corporations play a numbers game......profits verses punitive damage. If the profit exceeds the loss, companies will take the profit. They do it every day.Sure, if someone is infringing on your property rights or causing you harm, the government should defend your rights. But there is a difference between taking someone to court over a violation of rights and giving the federal government the power to police everyone.
To my knowledge no one is outlawing private schools but if you can't afford a private school, a public school should be available.....it should be a basic right to get a decent education. As much of a right as free speech. If private schools were such a better choice then why hasn't the market adjusted that and why haven't public schools failed by market demand? We need educational reform, for sure.....just not the abolition of it. Each State should manage it's educational budget but the Federal government should set a standard and mandate that every State offers an education.On the education thing, think of it this way: When you get the federal government involved (or government at all), then you have to make it fair, because the government can't push an ideology. Can't teach creationism. Can't teach evolution without intelligent design. Can't teach either without flying spaghetti monsterism.
If you don't involve the government, and give choice back to the people, then they can teach whatever they want.
Hope for me yet? I've debated ad nauseam the evils of the Federal Reserve.....have linked numerous sources about the evils of that entity. Debated here to death in the FL.There's hope for you yet!
I agree (as does RP, actually) that there should be some regulation and that government should protect free markets. What we have right now, with all its abuses, is not a free market.
I listened to the man when he ran last time and researched him then. I've listened to the debates and read/listened to his speeches now. I've never followed the media's spin on him....mainly because I don't watch it and would rather read the news. So implying I'm some Johnny on the band wagon of 30 second soundbites is kinda lame, bro!I think he can do a better job of explaining his positions. A lot of people take a cursory glance at what he says and thinks "oh he's crazy/horrible/whatever". You can see jhale pop his head in here every once in a while and call the guy a racist and say something like "he didn't want to give rosa parks a medal" or "he didn't support civil rights".
But when you listen to him, and understand why he does what he does, you see a consistency that there is a lot more depth to his reasoning than "this will be hard to explain to voters." I don't know everything you disagree with him on, but I hope you have taken the time to listen and understand what he is saying. I thought he was a crackpot, and got my initial exposure to him doing a little research to get some stuff to post on why I thought he was crazy.
And on the face of it you say, "Oh my! He's a bad person! Who wouldn't support that?"
But, I started listening to what he was saying, reading more on it and started to realize the guy was making a lot of sense (to me).
Reform and regulations......obviously they haven't been doing their jobs or we wouldn't be in this mess. Just because it isn't working now doesn't mean there's not a need for it. We need reform like we got during the Great Depression.....to ensure it never happens again. The the markets can do whatever they will after that.The government doesn't do that. Government creates monopolies these days. Look at the Credit Bureaus. They have a monopoly that no one else can compete with (by law!) and control your financial future. Heck, look at the biggest monopoly of them all: The Federal Reserve. A privately-owned institution (by some of the nation's largest banks) that controls the creation and infusion of money. Nothing is allowed to compete with it.
Neither do I.......we need real campaign reform. To the point where people running for the House or Senate can not take national money. No national money from Demos or Repukes. All local level financing, period. Corporate donations can't exceed public donations in the national, too. A level playing field. Just because Grandpa doesn't take money from them doesn't change the fact the rest of them do.'Effectively' is probably the sticking point. I agree that government can achieve a lot of things. It's just that I don't think it does hardly any of them very well, and they are controlled by and serve the wealthy.
I thought the same thing when Perot had his run and his 3rd party but in the end it was a pipe dreamI support the cause; RP is just the man in front right now. There will be others after him.
I look at it this way. Most of what RP thinks we should do is going to happen 1 of 2 ways:
1. The way we choose to do it
2. The way we're forced to do it
I'd rather have a choice in the matter
Until the majority speaks up we'll never have the best and the brightest running for office.
One only needs to look at the current GOP candidates and the Demos to see that.
Last edited by kwame k; 03-06-2012 at 01:52 AM.
I've been hearing these same old arguments for the last 40 years. The federal government is regulating more than ever now and is bigger than ever now. Have things gotten better than they were 40 years ago? I'm a little wary of having even more regulation and even more government. Somehow I just don't see the advantages everyone is claiming are in it.
I take it back, kwame. There's no hope for you...![]()
Ha! "I have hope and faith, and that’s more than just the name of a couple of strippers from Albuquerque"![]()
So what dude, at least my thinking has evolved, and much in the same way that Dr. Love's has...
When Bush was elected in 2000 he said a lot of the things Paul is saying now, and in 2004 I admittedly bought some of the BS the system and media sold me...
It's around that time, with the help of FORD and many others on this board, that I started delving deeper in to the subject matter...
It's easy to get sucked in by the bullshit...
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Last edited by ELVIS; 03-06-2012 at 12:58 PM.
There's no point in having a serious discussion with you...
It's Super Tuesady. I still don't know who I am voting for. I guess I'll vote for Newter.
Eat Us And Smile
Cenk For America 2024!!
Justice Democrats
"If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992
Nope.....show me where I'm a blind follower of Democrats or Obama.
Not my ship.....just a place where I hitched a ride 4 years ago......and I still believe Obama was a 100% better than McCain and Palin. Problem is.....being 100% better still means they suck 50% of the time![]()
The Federal Government can't even do what it's constitutionally chartered to do. Protecting The Borders is one area. Oh yeah, it's doing a great job there. If it can't even do the basic things what makes it a good idea to make it in charge of more things? Of course I think most the people who think the federal government should be running more parts of our lives are the 40% of the population who pay no income taxes or the rich fucks who own the politicians. Us people in the middle class think differently.
Last edited by Nitro Express; 03-06-2012 at 02:18 PM.
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