I can find no fault, nor disagree with anything you said, DL......
Still doesn't account for the weird ELBOW posts or some of your wild speculations.....
But yes, I'm going gray......you're both right there.
Just ask yourself this -- why would Romney ask anyone to sign a pledge stating they would vote for him as a delegate at the convention? If he's got it all locked up, and he doesn't have anything to worry about, why have individual people sign that pledge?
I must be unaware that Christie, Bush, Ryan and Daniels have publicly been going around trying to get delegates elected to go to the national convention even if they are initially pledged to Romney/Santorum/whomever, much less have been doing a pretty good job of accomplishing that goal!
well, you are a bass player... I suppose the ignorance can be excused.
One thing for sure is Romney will never beat Obama...
Obama reads a teleprompter much better, and like him or not, he has some charisma...
I tried to watch a Romney speech a few weeks ago and it was awful...
He was reading off the teleprompter exactly like Obama does, but I couldn't follow what he was saying unless I forced myself to...
Obama will kill him in a debate...
Mormon Gekko is gonna get stomped at the polls come November.
You don't think a Repuke convention in Tampa isn't going to be filled with BCE machine puppets?
Romney is fully BCE endorsed, of course. But if they panic and determine that a Mormon can't win the religious reich vote, than they could easily throw in Daniels (BCE/Big pharma stooge) or Jeb himself. Jabba the Christie and Jockstrap Ryan are both KKKoch Brothers puppets, so those old Stalinist fucks might well bus in their own paid for delegates if they smell Romney blood in the water.
Ultimately though, I see the BCE forcing Romney with Rubio as the running mate, then if they manage to steal the election, they're going to repeat the March 30, 1981 scenario, only this time they'll pick someone who can aim better. I don't think the BCE really likes Mittens all that much, but he's an effective means to an end.
Eat Us And Smile
Cenk For America 2024!!
Justice Democrats
"If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992
Ron Paul is ignored because if he becomes president he will end the Federal Reserve's power of issuing our money. He wants to audit it and then bring the power of issuing money back into the government running it like a public utility. I would say making a law that bases the money supply on the gross national product of the country would do the trick. A formula could easily be written to follow that would keep just the right amount of money in circulation. You run into problems when too much is printed or not enough. We won't see any banking reform under Obama or Romney. The congress will just continue to borrow huge amounts of money and then the Fed will end up buying the debt it created. In the end the stockholders of the Federal Reserve Bank will own all the debt and therefore they will take the real assets as payment and own everything.
In other words, the massive spending is part of the plan and since the issuance of money costs the Fed nothing because they just create most of it on a computer whatever claims they have in the future are 100% pure profit. So in other words, Obama and the congress is allowing the Federal Reserve to rob us blind. I doubt Mitt will stop this if he gets in. Obama is spending hand over fist for one reason and one reason only. He's following orders. The Fed really runs the show.
Last edited by Nitro Express; 04-25-2012 at 09:26 PM.
Ron Paul's views on the "federal" reserve probably won't help him with the Repuke establishment, but it's his opposition to PNAC wars of imperialism (and how those wars benefit the "defense" industry overall) that really strike him out with this crowd.
In other words, the two things that he actually gets right, are the very things that keep him from being taken seriously as a Repuke candidate. Aside from that, his belief in the Randtard fairy tales would be completely on board with what KKKoch puppets (all the repuke governors elected in the last election) are trying to do to this country.
the way to tell if a candidate is worried is to check what their line of attack is. if romney's focused on gingrich, he's trying to beat gingrich. if he's focused on santorum, he's trying to beat santorum. if he's focused on obama, he's trying to beat obama. he's never focused on paul because ron's not a threat.
i'm sure it's common practice to encourage pledged delegates to stick to their pledge. it doesn't mean anybody else has a chance in hell at this point.
not that this should diminish your enthusasim. ron paul was never really running to win this election.
I'm not so sure. It will be close. There is a huge difference between being a good speaker and a good debater. Romney is a workaholic. He's not a lazy sit around guy. He's done a hell of a lot more than Obama ever has. Obama would have never been able to come into the mess the Salt Lake City Olympic Games were and turn it around like Mitt did. Obama is a talented bullshitter and that's about it. Plus, we have illegal aliens going back to Mexico now because parts of the Mexican economy are better than the current US economy. Obama has been a fiscal disaster across the board. Real the comments on the guy on any news site. It's mostly negative.
Dude the banks own both parties. Of course Ron Paul isn't popular with the Republican Party. He's a threat to their biggest sponsors. If this turns out to be another business as usual presidential term after this election we will have a revolution in this country. This election is the last chance we have to maybe turn the ship without having a massive ruckus. If it goes to revolution the question is will it be a Ghandi styled revolution or a bloody one? Many people just see the two party system as a broken rigged machine that no longer can deliver anything good. The government is broken and the election process seems broken. The corporations get everything they want and the citizens don't. They are only given the illusion of choice. They are ignoring Ron Paul they pulled the rug from underneath Dennis Kucinich. Most the people serving in office today are just a bunch of paid off hacks who stand for nothing. Some are attention whores. Some want the power and money. Some are control freaks. Some are all three.
Nothing is more dangerous than a government that is failing. Historically they get very intrusive and aggressive trying to steal everything and acting like a huge bully trying to keep everyone so scared nobody rises up against it. There are a lot of entrenched people in power who aren't going to give it up. They will fight like motherfuckers to stay in power even if that means running over every law of the land to do it. Look at how many laws the Justice Department has broken but they just go so what? Who's going to make us behave? Congress doesn't follow their own laws and neither does the executive branch. They are in power and they are just going to do whatever the fuck they want.
Last edited by Nitro Express; 04-25-2012 at 09:45 PM.
Honestly. I probably will just write in David Lee Roth for president this November. I really don't like any of the choices.
I think Romney will lose by 7 points.
Ron Paul packing the house in El Paso!
Word on the street is Ron Paul may already have the majority of delegates in Washington. Trying to validate that since their conventions are ongoing.
Last edited by Dr. Love; 04-26-2012 at 09:30 PM.
om nom nom juicy delegates
http://www.policymic.com/articles/75...d-pennsylvaniaRon Paul Still Winning Delegates in Rhode Island and Pennsylvania
Allan Stevo in Politics, 2012 Elections
Ron Paul Still Winning Delegates in Rhode Island and Pennsylvania
In an unlikely turn of events, Ron Paul picked up a quarter of the delegates available in Rhode Island’s Republican primary election on Tuesday. The campaign also received an estimated 25% of the pledged delegates from the Pennsylvania primary.
Professor Josh Putnam, of Davidson College, shared what he calls a “rough, rough delegate count,” from Pennsylvania as primary results were being calculated. Putnam lists 16 or 17 delegates as “uncommitted/unconfirmed,” and divvies up the other 19 or 20 delegates among the campaigns as follows: Romney 7 (35%), Paul 5 (25%), Gingrich 4 (20%) and Santorum 3 or 4 (20%). Former Pennsylvania Senator Rick Santorum suspended his race earlier this month, but remained on his home state’s ballot.
In what is a multistep process, which started with Tuesday’s loophole primary, Pennsylvania will send a total of 72 delegates to the Republican National Convention in Tampa, Florida in late August. Tuesday, a total of 59 delegates were chosen in Pennsylvania, but the allegiance of many of those delegates is difficult to identify.
In Washington last month, Paul supporters witnessed a united move by some of his opponents to marginalize his supporters. Some observers now speculate that Paul’s campaign may have supporters trying to avoid retribution by identifying themselves as “uncommitted,” as was the case in Colorado earlier this month, where Paul’s supporters gained the endorsement of that state’s GOP under the moniker "uncommitted." Uncommitted delegates make up 44% of the 36 delegates that have been decided in Colorado. If this is the case in Pennsylvania, these numbers are likely to grow in Paul’s favor. That all this took place in former Governor Romney’s backyard, where conservative Christians are not heavily represented, sends a signal that the GOP nomination remains undecided.
This news comes on the heels of a successful weekend for the Paul campaign in which they took 20 of the 24 available national delegates in Minnesota. That momentum will send Paul into the Minnesota state convention, May 18-19, in control of 83% of the available delegates, and guarantees him at least 50% of Minnesota’s 40 delegates to the RNC.
New York, Delaware, and Connecticut also held primaries on April 24.
Ron Paul at the University of Texas
Considering the state Repuke convention isn't until the end of May, I would say that article is a bit misleading. Paul is currently running second to the Mor(m)on in "soft" pledged delegates though, so it's not impossible that he could win..... just arrange for the Mormon "prophet" in SLC to get some major revelation from Elohim the last weekend in May, and keep the Romney delegates distracted. And then he just has to win the "Anybody but Mittens vote" and pick up the delegates who had previously pledged to Newt and Frothy.... but that's not a slam dunk, given that most of those people are probably fundagelicals who think a war with Iran is MANDATORY before Jesus can come back, and they would never get that with Ron Paul.
Another UT crowd shot... great turnout!
http://www.businessinsider.com/ron-p...hington-2012-4Actually, Ron Paul Is Secretly Winning A Lot More Delegates Than You Think
Grace Wyler | Apr. 27, 2012, 9:25 PM | 6,648 | 74
Mitt Romney may have all but locked up the Republican nomination with his victories in the East Coast primaries this week, but Ron Paul and his army of acolytes aren't ready to give up the fight just yet.
As the rest of the political world's attention shifts to the general election, Paul is still quietly amassing delegates at district and county conventions, and is now poised to take a real bite — or at least a big nibble — out of Romney's delegate total.
In just the last week, Paul locked up 49 delegates, including five in Pennsylvania and four in Rhode Island, two states thought to be firmly on Romney's turf. In Minnesota, Paul won 20 of the 24 delegates awarded at last weekend's district caucuses, an impressive sweep that guarantees that Paul will control a majority of the state's delegation at the Republican National Convention.
And despite staunch opposition from the state Republican Party, Paul took 20 of the 40 delegates awarded in Missouri last weekend, according to campaign chairman Jesse Benton.
In at least five other states — Colorado, Nevada, Iowa, Washington, and Maine — Paul has done remarkably well at county and district conventions, and his supporters are expected to win a big chunk of the RNC delegates at the state conventions later this spring.
"We are very pleased with the results," Benton told Business Insider. "We still have a long way to go, but we've done very, very well at the county caucuses and district conventions and that bodes well for our strength when we get to the state conventions. Now we need to keep our nose to the grindstone."
Even Rick Santorum, who earlier in the race accused Paul of shilling for Romney, acknowledged the Texas Congressman's impressive organization this week, telling CNN's Piers Morgan that "Ron Paul is working the delegates hard."
In a surprising twist, a lot of Paul's recent success can actually be attributed to Santorum's decision to suspend his campaign earlier this month. In many places, Santorum supporters have banded together with Paul organizers in an attempt to deny Romney delegates.
In Colorado, for example, Santorum supporters have bonded with their Paul counterparts over a shared skepticism of Romney's conservative values. Although the Colorado GOP won't select its RNC delegates until the state convention next month, Paul organizers have gotten many of Santorum's pledged delegates to commit to supporting Paul over Romney.
"In Colorado, there is a real anti-Establishment sense — they want to send a very conservative delegation to the national convention," Benton told BI. "We're fighting it out, and we think there are enough Santorum delegates that are sympathetic to Ron Paul who will come over to us."
In Washington, Santorum's county caucus organizer sent an open letter to his fellow supporters urging them to vote for Paul's delegates rather than Romney's.
Here's an excerpt of the letter, obtained by Business Insider:
Romney wants everybody to quit. Quitting may be his solution when his back is up to the wall, but it's not what we want from our leaders. Our country has it's back up against the wall! We need principled fighters and not a pretty boy in a suit. We nominate Romney and it's the equivalent of making him the starting quarterback because he simply looks good in the uniform. He's a defensive coordinators dream. The mere fact he wins in the same places liberals do in the general election says a lot.
At some point, and it might as well be now, people are going to reign back power from party leaders, unite and actually make something like a Paul/Santorum unity slate work. As I see it, it's the only way to balance power, restore it back to the people and take it away from big money.
Those against such an alliance, especially elected state delegates, might want to address future problems and complaints concerning government to the person in the mirror. I fail to see the logic in people not trusting such an arrangement that both Paul and Santorum's people have agreed to, yet they'll trust the same people running the party for years that have helped bring us to this junction in history.
That Santorum's supporters are taking a second look at Ron Paul rather than vote for Romney's delegates is an indication that the former Massachusetts governor still has major problems with his party's Republican base.
"The plurality of them just don't want to vote for Romney," Doug Wead, a senior advisor to the Paul campaign, told Business Insider. “A lot of people are upset that Romney has not reached out to them at all. [They feel like] 'Why in the hell should we support him when he’s not asking for our support or doing a single thing to get it."
Both Wead and Benton concede that it would be difficult — if not impossible — to deny Romney the delegate majority he needs to win the nomination. The goal now, Benton told BI, is "to win as many delegates as we possibly can."
"We want to have a strong, respectful presence that says 'We are here, we are are going to participate, and we are ready to talk about the party platform with you if you take our issues seriously," he said. "We're going to send a message that the liberty wing of the Republican party is strong, and that it isn't going anywhere."
The Romney campaign declined to comment on Paul's delegate wins. But if Paul continues his hot streak, the presumptive nominees might not be able to ignore the libertarian iconoclast and his army of delegates by the time the national convention rolls around.
Half the delegation in Missouri, and Washington is looking to shape up nicely for the Paul campaign. Romney has declared himself the nominee (prematurely) but Paul keeps getting wins every week.
Doug Wead (Ron Paul campaign) is a cool (and honest) guy:
http://dougwead.wordpress.com/2012/0...curate-update/Ron Paul’s delegate math, an accurate update
Has Ron Paul won the majority of delegates from Washington State to the Republican National Convention? That is the claim in a report that filed by the International Business Times last night. Has Ron Paul won the majority of delegates from Iowa? That was a recent report from Rachel Maddow on MSNBC the day before.
Now, here are the facts. No delegates to the Republican National Convention have been chosen from either state. The selection of the official delegation from Washington State will take place May 30, 2012. And the official delegation from Iowa will take place June 16, 2012.
Last Sunday night I reported on wins for Ron Paul in Minnesota and Iowa at the state’s respective district conventions. Delegates were indeed chosen in Minnesota, at the district level, to be part of the official state delegation to the RNC in Tampa. But not in Iowa. The rules are different there.
The wins that I referred to in Iowa had to do with committee selection and the elections of district delegates to the state convention that could lead to a Ron Paul heavy delegation to the RNC. The point to keep in mind is this. It hasn’t happened yet.
In the end, Rachel Maddow will likely be right. In fact, it will likely be better than what she is saying. She either got inside information from our campaign on the makeup of those delegates to state or she had her staff at MSNBC make phone calls to the delegates themselves to determine their favorite candidates.
By the way. I misspoke on her show when I incorrectly claimed that Ron Paul had carried a county in 2008 that he had not actually won. My point was right, that a Romney county chairman had postponed a county caucus that Ron Paul was expected to win, and one that he did eventually carry, but he had not won that county in the last cycle. So mistakes are easy to make.
Which brings me to one more correction. The International Business Times claims that Ron Paul will win a majority of the delegates from North Dakota. Nada. That will not happen. In fact, that process is done and it is one of the states where the Ron Paul people were ambushed by Romney’s Goldman Sachs brigade. While Ron Paul beat Mitt Romney, who came in third place in the North Dakota state vote, Romney still won 60% of the delegation at the state convention by a combination of lawyers, parliamentarians, the elimination of paper ballots and controlling the audio visuals. As the former state chairman said, “What could the Ron Paul people do? Go up and write a delegates name on the screen?”
The point here is to be accurate. And when a mistake is made to correct it. Which is a lot better than the New York Times or the Associated Press seem willing to do. They have still refused to correct their lists of delegates that are now wholesale fiction.
So what does it all mean?
It means that journalists are beginning to catch on to the truth of the Ron Paul delegate strategy which is very different from what has been reported. It means that we are on schedule to win many of those delegations from a number of states. It means that a brokered convention probably would have happened if the Santorum and Gingrich campaigns had not collapsed. And there are a number of options possible even now. But it also means that things can go wrong. It isn’t done yet.
Journalism is dead in America. This is the age of entertainment. Keep that in mind. And double check your sources.
So I guess we can't call Iowa, Minnesota or Washington for Paul just yet...
Another good day!
RP supporters take over the Alaska GOP chair and vice-chair.
Louisiana elects a very, very large amount of RP supporters as delegates to their state conventions.
So far RP has swept half of the Congressional Districts in Massachusetts as well (suprising as it's Romney's home state). While the elected delegates are ardent RP supporters, they will be required to vote for Romney on the first slate.UPDATED 8:40pm I am a Ron Paul delegate who won in district 5.
Complete but unofficial results (http://lagop.com/2012/04/preliminary-caucus-results):
Ron Paul - 111 delegates and 61 alternates
Santorum/Newt - 25 delegates and 11 alternates
Romney - 14 delegates and 0 alternates
Ron Paul's delegates will control the state convention!!!
I have been reading 2 scenarios the Paul supporters are debating on for the national convention.
Option 1: They apparently can vote at the national level to unbind delegates on the first round of voting, or abstain from voting in the first round at all.
Option 2: Most states levee a fine of $100-$200 for not voting as bound.
I haven't personally verified either of these, but a lot of Paul delegates are out on the internet talking about doing it. They are a very committed bunch.
So, RP still keeps racking up delegates, whether they are pledged to him or not, and his progress keeps getting ignored. It'll be interesting to see how it develops. He's currently projected to carry a plurality from at least 10 states outright in pledged delegates, with a lot of other states having a large representation of Paul supporters formally pledged to other candidates with the intent to ultimately vote for Paul anyway.
oh, i know it's legal. private political party nominating processes need not be democratic at all. caucuses really aren't.
i'm just saying i think it's kind of funny that some ron paul supporters would support (completely legitimate) tricks to change delegates elected in an open primary to one candidate to their guy, instead. they would go apeshit if romney somehow convinced the delegate paul accumulated by winning the texas primary to vote for him, nonetheless. the cries of, "THIS IS WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE SYSTEM!!" would be deafening...
To an extent I agree but as you said, it's part of the nomination process........back room deals and multiple floor votes are nothing new.
In this day and age, with the media spin, they make it sound like a contested nomination has never happened before......multiple floor votes, delegate shifting and the front runner losing the nomination isn't anything new.
I disagree; In some of the districts Romney has won (I was reading about King County in WA yesterday), RP supporters have been willing to admit readily that they were out-organized and that they were outvoted.
Where RP supporters bitch and scream is where they are locked out, the rules aren't followed or are changed at the last minute unilaterally by party leadership and the caucusers aren't allowed to vote to change them to what they want (whether or not RP people win or lose those votes, and a lot of times they lose). The RP people are trying to beat Romney and the Republicans at their own game following the rules already established. When Romney does the same, they basically give him credit for a round well-played and continue on in other areas.
at the end of the day ron paul (or any other candidate for that matter) either is, or is not the choice of the people. and pulling delegates away from other candidates doesn't make you a real choice of the people.
now, to a large extent, that's the main reason i hate caucuses. yes, it's up to each party to determine their nominee. but so long as 3rd party presidential candidates are near impossible, i think anything that diminishes the ability of the person with the most popular votes to actually win is harmful for encouraging citizen interest and participation.
Caucuses don't bother me ... it's the energized, dedicated people that get others elected. That's what caucuses bring out. Most of the country honestly just doesn't give a shit, as sad as that is.
Ron Paul is trying to change the republican party from the inside. The goal is to become President, but that's not the only goal. The broader desire is to inspire enough people to take over the apparatus and change the trajectory of the party.
On the former goal, it's not going great. On the latter goal, it's going surprisingly well.
I would love to just see an open election with no political parties, caucuses, or delegates. Just have a secure system that anyone who meets the constitutional requirement for president can run in for a few months and then everyone vote their choice on a secure electronic system that backs itself up with paper receipts. We have the technology to do that now. We don't need an electorial college because it no longer takes days on a horse to deliver communications. We could have it where the public votes several times in different election finals. You continue to eliminate everyone until on the last vote you have the last remaining choices. It would eliminate all this party politics nonsense and only having two choices that are more alike than they differ.
i get that caucuses bring out the dedicated, but overall, the average person hates the process. they always think that they're forced to choose between 2 medicore candidates, neither of whom they really like.
now, that's not just the fault of the caucuses. honestly, there's no reason for primaries to be on different days. as it stands now, the nominating process is over before most people have a chance to get involved. so they don't. there's a reason we have such absymal turnout.
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