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Thread: ron paul=awesome/kickass?

  1. #1961
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Love View Post
    from Doug Wead


    Sorry, but that has to be a fake name.....

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    He's the guy that secretly recorded conversations with gwb and released them in the early 2000s.
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  3. #1963
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    Paul should pick up more delegates today. He is now openly concentrating on state conventions to try to stack as many supporters in the state GOPs as he can.

    If they continue on over the next few election cycles as they have been, they may be able to overtake a majority of the states and start influencing who represents the GOP in national congressional elections by controlling which candidates receive GOP supporting funds.

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    Summary of many of Paul's political positions.

    Abortion: Paul’s views come from both his Christianity and his career as an obstetrician. He has sponsored legislation that would define life at conception at the federal level, arguing that it is a scientific, not political, statement and prefers no federal involvement. Opposes government subsidies for abortions, as well as a deregulated adoption market.

    Bailouts: Paul opposed TARP, the financial bailouts of 2008, and socializing the losses of industries in general. In response to the $700 billion Wall Street bailout, Paul said “where many mortgage-backed securities and other similar assets are horribly overvalued. The market response would be to allow these assets to be sold on the market at whatever price they would bring. This would result in a shakeout of bad debt and a shorter, sharper correction than would otherwise occur.”

    Capital Punishment: While supporting it earlier in his political career, Paul is now against the death penalty for fear that an innocent person may be executed.

    Drug War: Firmly opposes federal involvement in the regulation of the sale and use of drugs. Supports medicinal marijuana, the pardoning of non-violent drug offenders, abolishing the DEA, and views drug addiction as a health issue, not a criminal one.

    Economics: Supports free-market, “Austrian” economics, and opposes Keynesian economics and government intervention in general. According to Paul, the free market is the most humanitarian system in the world because it allows human beings to be free, produces wealth, and creates cooperation, order, and peace.

    Education: Paul sees no authority for the federal government to be involved in education, and if elected president, wants to abolish the Department of Education. Paul supports homeschooling and decentralization of responsibility. He argues that schools should be accountable to parents, not to federal bureaucrats, and that subsidies increase cost.

    Energy: Opposes subsidies to energy industries and wants the free market to allow producers and consumers to find the best sources of energy. He also believes that private property rights are a far better way of protecting the environment and resources as opposed to government programs like the EPA.

    Executive Power: He argues that a president has important, but narrow functions specifically delegated in Article II, Section 8 of the Constitution. Paul Opposes executive orders that create legislation and the idea that presidents can wage non-defensive war without a declaration of war from Congress.

    The Fed: Paul has been a thorn in the Fed’s side for decades, stemming from his Austrian economics background. He sees the Fed’s interest rates as price-fixing because only the market can determine the price of money. Paul supports competing currencies and a repeal of legal tender laws. He claims central banking allows governments to spend without limit and is the only way to pay for a welfare-warfare state as well as destroys the dollar’s purchasing power. His book on the subject spawned chants of “End the Fed!” at his rallies. Paul was inspired to run for public office after President Nixon removed the last gold-backing of the U.S. dollar in 1971.

    Foreign aid: Government-subsidized foreign aid is an unconstitutional wealth-transfer. If people want to help those around the world, they should do so voluntarily through private charities, non-profits, etc.

    Health care: Paul opposed Obamacare, Medicare Part D, and opposes any federal involvement in the distribution of medicine and insurance. He would like to see a much freer health care market (like the technological sector) where prices go down and quality goes up. Paul argues that government intervention cartelizes service and drives up costs.

    Immigration: Paul supports bringing the National Guard (and other military forces) home from border disputes around the globe in order to better enforce U.S. immigration law. He believes immigrants tend to be scapegoated during tough economic times even though they provide more benefits than costs. He supports the expansion of private property rights and boundaries along the border rather than a fence.

    Marriage: Marriages should be privatized. People should be free to contract with whomever they choose.

    NDAA: Paul strongly opposes the provisions that give the federal government the authority to arrest U.S. citizens and hold them indefinitely without trial.

    PATRIOT Act: Paul was one of only 66 congressmen to vote against the bill in 2001, and has opposed it ever since. He has said that the bill basically nullifies the Fourth Amendment and gives the federal government too much broad power to wire tap without a warrant, monitor communications and financial transactions, and undermine basic civil liberties.

    Taxes: Taxation is essentially the initiation of force, and Paul wants taxes to be as low as possible. Paul routinely calls for the elimination of the federal income tax and argues that private citizens should spend their money as they see fit, not as directed by politicians and bureaucrats.

    Torture: Torture is not only immoral and uncivilized, but it produces little reliable evidence. It is unconstitutional and illegal as well. “It is un-American to accept, on principle, that we will torture its captives...” Paul said in a 2011 GOP debate.

    War and National Defense: Since the beginning of his congressional career, Paul has advocated a consistent foreign policy based on armed neutrality, diplomacy, and trade and a Christian “just-war” philosophy that argues that war is only justified in self-defense. He wants an immediate withdrawal from the multiple “hot” wars being engaged in, an end to the stationing of troops and weapons across the globe, and the U.S. out of NATO and the United Nations (see his collection of House speeches against empire, preventive war, entangling alliances, and interventionism).

    Whisteblowers: Paul supports Wikileaks and Julian Assange, arguing that a free society depends on openness and transparency. He opposed the treatment of Private Bradley Manning and has said that under a Paul administration, Manning would be protected, not tortured and imprisoned without a trial.
    Hard to disagree with many of those positions. Contrast those against Romney and Obama. It's demoralizing to realize how much of that one or the other, or both, disagree with.

    Especially on the patriot act, the ndaa and whistleblowers.

    I really hope the upcoming generation of republicans and voters engage and change the direction of our electoral politics.

    I've been researching my local GOP with the desire to get involved and Try to ultimately get elected to positions where I can influence what we do locally (and ultimately what we do beyond that).

    We cannot afford to continue the warfare/welfare state. It will end eventually. The only choice we have is whether we manage ourselves out of it or let it ultimately collapse and wipe everyone out.

    I wish more people took the time to understand what is going on.


    ---
    I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?w3rhat

  5. #1965
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    Hahahaha... RP did so well in Minnesota today (his final total is like 86% of the delegation) that even Michelle Bachmann couldn't win her vote to go to the national convention. The Paul people then gave up 1 slot so she could go so as to try to calm down a lot of the pissed off establishment people.

    Guess Bachmann is going to have to depend on the kindness of Ron Paul supporters in MN for the next several years if she wants to keep her job.

  6. #1966
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    I fully support Ron Paul making Michelle Batshit Bachmann's life more difficult.
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  7. #1967
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    RP got shut out in Georgia... just didn't have enough people to stop them from doing what they wanted. They did succeed in getting into some GOP offices, but not many. AZ apparently went not so great. They had locked up the ballots for a few days before announcing the total, and then Romney won. I have no idea if any shenanigans went on or not, but it seems like one of the best ways to lose credibility is to lock up ballots and do a secret count and then tell everyone what the result was.

    Win some, lose some.

  8. #1968
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    That's because Georgia is dominated by religious reich wackjobs who think we have to nuke Iran to bring Jesus back. They'll put up with the heretical Mormon cultist, just as long as he's a warmonger.
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    Mormon cultist? It's more like a multinational corporation with vast real estate, agriculture, and media holdings. The days of hiding out in the western desert with multiple wives is long over. Now they just build high end malls and have enough connections and pull to get an IRS tax exemption even with Obama in office. Me thinks Mormon Inc. plays booth sides. They probably gave a generous donation to get that IRS exemption. That's how Washington rolls.
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    ELVIS (05-25-2012)


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    Lol old school Ron Paul: Charles Rangel weighs in:

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    fifth element (05-25-2012)


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    lol....love it!!!
    Last edited by fifth element; 05-25-2012 at 11:07 PM.
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    The Ten Principles of a Free Society
    by Ron Paul - From the the Appendix to his book, Liberty Defined

    * Rights belong to individuals, not groups; they derive from our nature and can neither be granted nor taken away by government.
    * All peaceful, voluntary economic and social associations are permitted; consent is the basis of the social and economic order.
    * Justly acquired property is privately owned by individuals and voluntary groups, and this ownership cannot be arbitrarily voided by governments.
    * Government may not redistribute private wealth or grant special privileges to any individual or group.
    * Individuals are responsible for their own actions; government cannot and should not protect us from ourselves.
    * Government may not claim the monopoly over a people's money and governments must never engage in official counterfeiting, even in the name of macroeconomic stability.
    * Aggressive wars, even when called preventative, and even when they pertain only to trade relations, are forbidden.
    * Jury nullification, that is, the right of jurors to judge the law as well as the facts, is a right of the people and the courtroom norm.
    * All forms of involuntary servitude are prohibited, not only slavery but also conscription, forced association, and forced welfare distribution.
    * Government must obey the law that it expects other people to obey and thereby must never use force to mold behavior, manipulate social outcomes, manage the economy, or tell other countries how to behave.
    Interested to see how much of that you guys disagree with.

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    Is the Ron Paul the Best Hope for Progressives?
    The Texas congressman is more conservative than Romney, but he's also more progressive than Obama.

    Brian Doherty | May 25, 2012

    Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) is the last man standing in the Republican presidential race besides presumptive victor Mitt Romney, even after a strategy statement misunderstood by many as “dropping out.” Since that announcement, Paul has won his second state, Minnesota (Maine was the first), and is on target to end up controlling presidential voting delegations in such states as Iowa, Louisiana, and Missouri. Far from fading as a cultural force, Paul continues to draw huge crowds, sometimes over five thousand students, on campuses as well.

    As the presidential field has shaped up to a certain Obama vs. Romney in the major parties, the desire for a challenger championing either the serious right or serious progressive left grows. And Ron Paul—though he continues to deny any third party plans and his political machine has clearly hitched itself to the GOP for now—is strangely a viable candidate for either role, should he choose to accept it.

    Paul is in many ways the rightest of right wingers, with his desire to kill the income tax, end government interference in medical care, and get to a balanced budget in three years with no tax hikes. A third party Paul, should he make such a radical choice, would provide a choice for right-wingers dissatisfied with Romney’s small-government bonafides.

    Yet despite Paul’s impeccable Tea Party credentials on tax and spending issues, he would be an even more appealing choice to progressives dissatisfied with President Obama. Even while running for the GOP presidential nod, Ron Paul has presented a political vision in many respects to the left of the Democratic Party.

    President Obama wants to continue and expand every aspect of the war on drugs, including the war on state-legal medical marijuana operations. Paul thinks government attempts to arrest people for actions that harm only themselves are inherently illegitimate. Obama’s administration has set records in deportations. Paul mocks border walls as un-American in Republican candidate debates.

    Obama approves of enormous bailouts to huge financial institutions, and his administration’s high-level economic planning is run almost entirely by insiders from such institutions. Ron Paul is opposed to what he (and leftists) calls “crony capitalism.” Paul’s free-market policies would leave corporations with no more power over the American people than the corporations get by selling people things, things people choose to buy. (Unlike the products of the hated health insurance companies, which ObamaCare mandates that we all purchase.)

    Even Paul’s stated environmental policies—certainly very far from implementation even in a world where Paul was president—of imposing liability via tort on people and corporations who harm others through pollution, rather than allowing them to do so but “regulating” them—seem more in line with what a progressive who doesn’t want the fatcats getting away with harming the innocent should want.

    Paul’s belief in unfettered free markets is supposed, in the minds of leftists, to mean unbridled corporate power. But America’s plutocracy loves activist government—as long as it’s helping them, as Obama’s programs of giveaways to banks and investment firms does. Paul was thus the only GOP candidate with kind things to say about the Occupy movement, for recognizing the dangers of crony capitalism, and the only candidate whose fans proselytized among them.

    Paul’s greater appeal to an honest progressive goes even further. Obama has expanded the president’s powers to unilaterally imprison and even kill American citizens beyond even George W. Bush’s attempts. Paul gets thousands of students who gather to hear him booing any mention of the controversial yet sadly little-known National Defense Authorization Act signed by Obama, giving legal cover to the presidential power of unilateral imprisonment. Obama has started new unauthorized wars, greatly expanded a civilian-killing drone program, and presided over the biggest defense budgets in history. Ron Paul campaigns for peace and withdrawal of the U.S. military from the world. In doing so, he’s done more than Noam Chomsky to normalize discussion of U.S. foreign policy as the behavior of a criminal empire, not as the world’s great defender of liberty.

    President Obama loves the Patriot Act and hates whistleblowers; Paul is opposite on both points, including defense of accused WikiLeaker Bradley Manning.

    On a wide range of issues involving individual autonomy and liberty, and protecting people from oppressive concentrations of power, Paul is clearly more progressive than Obama.

    Progressives love income redistribution, though, and Paul does not. Still, while Paul is opposed in principle to things like government funding for NPR and even medical care, he mocks his fellow Republicans who act like such programs are the most important place to start practicing austerity—the former because it’s cultural red meat to their base, the latter because it feeds an ugly strain of opposition to “welfare bums” that plays no part in how Paul campaigns.

    While Paul is the loudest and most consistent voice for many progressive goals, he rejects their choice of tool to equalize income, which is why progressives' disappointment with Obama hasn’t led them to turn to Ron Paul. But Paul and the movement for peace, civil liberties, and ending government's explicit support for corporate power that he leads offers progressives an alternative, and a dilemma: Are those values more important than fealty to the Democratic Party and hugely expensive income redistribution programs?
    http://reason.com/archives/2012/05/2...ives-best-hope

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    laughable.

    paul's pure, fend-for-yourselves sentiment would NEVER attract any progressive support. true, progressives do not view obama as liberal enough. but even without the tax issue, they'd choose obama over ron paul every time.
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  17. #1975
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    Reason.com = KKKoch Brothers front.

    http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php...son_Foundation

  18. #1976
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    Quote Originally Posted by knuckleboner View Post
    laughable.

    paul's pure, fend-for-yourselves sentiment would NEVER attract any progressive support. true, progressives do not view obama as liberal enough. but even without the tax issue, they'd choose obama over ron paul every time.
    I don't think you speak for an entire population, but regardless, I do believe Paul is much more progressive than Obama on a lot of issues.

    Obama supports the PATRIOT Act, Paul does not
    Obama supports the continued War of Drugs, Paul does not
    Obama supports the NDAA and indefinite detention of Americans, Paul does not
    Obama supports increased restrictions on protests, Paul does not
    Obama supports killing Americans without trial abroad, Paul does not

    The big problem I think progressives have with Paul is partly what you say -- Paul does not believe in a Nanny state, but also that progressives view Government as the solution to every problem. Every problem has the same solution: More Government. This, despite that incredibly apparent abuses by government and their corporate owners. Yes... let's give more power and authority to an organization that is already infested with corruption under the belief that somehow it won't be abused and somehow the corporations won't turn it to their advantage despite having done it in practically every other area.

    This is what more government looks like:







    Yes, it is very laughable.

  19. #1977
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    Quote Originally Posted by FORD View Post
    Reason.com = KKKoch Brothers front.

    http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php...son_Foundation
    FORD, by that line of reasoning I could also say that Reason.com = Drew Carey front.

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  21. #1979
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Love View Post
    FORD, by that line of reasoning I could also say that Reason.com = Drew Carey front.
    I don't think syndicated reruns of the Drew Carey show are going to make him enough money to fund a superpac.

  22. #1980
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    That sounds great -- is there a line in there about reducing/ending the deficits and the ballooning national debt?

    edit: also lol on the civil rights thing ... Ron Paul doesn't support any government mandate forcing private business to serve customers they don't want to. He thinks that people shouldn't buy from racist companies rather than have the government force them not to be racist. That doesn't mean he doesn't support equal rights under the constitution and the law.
    Last edited by Dr. Love; 05-26-2012 at 08:31 PM.

  23. #1981
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Love View Post
    That sounds great -- is there a line in there about reducing/ending the deficits and the ballooning national debt?
    Here ya go....

    Fiscally Responsible?

    We need to invest in our people and our future -- job opportunities, training, research and development, improved immigration laws to attract and retain talented, hard-working people from other nations, education (I have advocated for enriched pre-school opportunities for every child and free higher education (perhaps with a community service component included)), support for the arts, family planning, universal health care (and a much less expensive system, with better outcomes, as in every other nation in the industrialized world), a vastly improved infrastructure, child care, and transit opportunities. Those investments pay off in helping to restore our nation's competitive edge in relation to other nations, their employees, and their students. I also believe in creating a more equal playing field for employers and working people so that U.S. corporations are not exporting jobs to the detriment of our nation and its people. Priming the pump with government investments is crucial during a recession. The real damage was done during the Bush administration, when we were engaged in horrendously expensive (and humanly tragic) wars and, at the same time, enormous tax breaks were given to the wealthy. (It is the first time in our nation's history that we were engaged in wars and, at the same time, taxes were reduced. Insanely irresponsible.)

    Driving up the accumulated debt has been the objective of government haters like Grover Norquist, who has been preaching "Starve the beast" for years. He knows, as we are seeing now, that social programs will be the first ones to go once our debt has skyrocketed. A true fiscal conservative would make certain that there are sufficient revenues by increasing taxes -- and that we cut out the waste in the federal budget, particularly in the military budget. Next time your representative in Congress talks about being a "fiscal conservative," -- or next time he/she complains about the federal debt -- ask if he/she continued to support F-22 funding (a boondoggle that continued primarily because there were contractors or sub-contractors in 44 states and members of Congress simply wanted to take the federal bacon back home).

    Education is a core duty of government. Without an educated citizenry, our nation has no future. In fact, we have lost our competitive edge in large part because our government has not ensured that enough of our students are getting a world-class education. While other nations are investing heavily in education, their students are out-scoring and out-performing our students. And we wonder where the jobs are? We must re-commit to providing the best possible education for our students. That should include enriched pre-school programs that will make an enormous difference in the physiological development of our children's brains and in their capacity later to learn and compete. Just as our forebears had the wisdom to provide a free secondary education for every child, so too should we exercise the wisdom to provide, for all capable students, a free higher education, with perhaps a community- or national-service component included.

    Universal health care does not require the "nationalization" of any health care providers. It simply requires that we catch up with the rest of the industrialized world. Every other nation in the industrialized world provides essential health care to every citizen.No one in any other nation in the industrialized world takes out bankruptcy because of medical bills. That only happens in the U.S. Are you proud of that? Our system, by comparison to the rest of the industrialized world, is a failure: (1) Our system costs more than twice as much as the average in the rest of the industrialized world. (2) Our medical outcomes are mediocre by comparison with other nations. (3) We are the only nation where people are without essential health care. If you're proud of that, I can only say that our values are world's apart. In my view, one's economic status should not determine whether he/she -- or his/her children -- should die or suffer needlessly. We can do so much better than we do -- yet real reform has been prevented because of the rapacious for-profit insurance and pharmaceutical industries, and the elected officials who do their bidding rather than protect the public interest.

    http://www.voterocky.org/fiscal_responsibility

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    Ok, that still sounds good... but from what I can tell he's suggesting we pay for it by a combination of taxing and reducing spending? Will that keep us at the debt/deficit we're at or does he have a plan to reduce the deficits and ultimately the debt?

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    Jesus friggin' christ Doc, Stop trying to be so fucking nice and cordial !!!

    This guy is just another big government liberal who thinks the answer is more big government programs and more taxpayer dollars...




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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Love View Post
    Ok, that still sounds good... but from what I can tell he's suggesting we pay for it by a combination of taxing and reducing spending? Will that keep us at the debt/deficit we're at or does he have a plan to reduce the deficits and ultimately the debt?
    Let me simplify it for you. (and for the record, this is my proposal, not Rocky Anderson's, but I'd guess he would probably agree)

    If we returned to the Eisenhower era tax rates, we could do the 21st century equivalence of the infrastructure improvements that were done under his administration.

    Or we could do what FDR did and spend the money neceessary, and fuck worrying about the deficit short term, because the best way to stimulate the economy is for people to spend money and buy shit. Which creates a need to make more shit for people to buy, which in turn causes the people who make that shit to need to hire more people to make it. And that in turn puts money in more people's pockets to spend on shit, and .... you get the idea.

    That's what saved us in the 30's. Doing the polar opposite since 1980 is killing us. And while Ron Paul is correct about the imperialism wars, and the corrupt banking industry, he fails to recognize the bigger picture, and because of his Randtard fairytale beliefs in deregulation, he would take away what little restraints remain against the criminals.

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    I just googled the Eisenhower tax rates:

    Income level Tax rate 2008 PPC Adjusted Income [2]
    up to $2,000.00 20% up to $37,500.00
    $2,000.01 – $4,000.00 22% $37,500 – 75,000
    $4,000.01 – $6,000.00 26% $75,000 – 112,500
    $6,000.01 – $8,000.00 30% $112,500 – 150,000
    $8,000.01 – $10,000.00 34% $150,000 – 187,500
    $10,000.01 – $12,000.00 38% $187,500 – 225,000
    $12,000.01 – $14,000.00 43% $225,000 – 262,500
    $14,000.01 – $16,000.00 47% $262,500 – 300,000
    $16,000.01 – $18,000.00 50% $300,000 – 337,500
    $18,000.01 – $20,000.00 53% $337,500 – 375,000
    $20,000.01 – $22,000.00 56% $375,000 – 412,500
    $22,000.01 – $26,000.00 59% $412,500 – 487,500
    $26,000.01 – $32,000.00 62% $487,500 – 600,000
    $32,000.01 – $38,000.00 65% $600,000 – 712,500
    $38,000.01 – $44,000.00 69% $712,500 – 825,000
    $44,000.01 – $50,000.00 72% $825,000 – 937,500
    $50,000.01 – $60,000.00 75% $937,500 – 1,125,000
    $60,000.01 – $70,000.00 78% $1,125,000 – 1,312,500
    $70,000.01 – $80,000.00 81% $1,312,500 – 1,500,000
    $80,000.01 – $90,000.00 84% $1,500,000 – $1,687,500
    $90,000.01 – $100,000.00 87% $1,687,500 – $1,875,000
    $100,000.01 – $150,000.00 89% $1,875,000 – $2,812,500
    $150,000.01 – $ 200,000.00 90% $2,812,500 – $3,750,000
    $200,000.01 or more 91% $3,750,000 or more



    Are you kidding me???

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    Also:

    lol @ all of you that think that the value of the dollar hasn't essentially collapsed in the last 60 years. $2,000 in 1954 = $37,500 today ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Love View Post
    I don't think you speak for an entire population, but regardless, I do believe Paul is much more progressive than Obama on a lot of issues.

    Obama supports the PATRIOT Act, Paul does not
    Obama supports the continued War of Drugs, Paul does not
    Obama supports the NDAA and indefinite detention of Americans, Paul does not
    Obama supports increased restrictions on protests, Paul does not
    Obama supports killing Americans without trial abroad, Paul does not

    The big problem I think progressives have with Paul is partly what you say -- Paul does not believe in a Nanny state, but also that progressives view Government as the solution to every problem. Every problem has the same solution: More Government. This, despite that incredibly apparent abuses by government and their corporate owners. Yes... let's give more power and authority to an organization that is already infested with corruption under the belief that somehow it won't be abused and somehow the corporations won't turn it to their advantage despite having done it in practically every other area.



    Yes, it is very laughable.
    dude, what's laughable is the presumption that progressives will flock to ron paul. they will not. no chance. if paul ran as an independent, he would guarantee an obama win. he knows this, which is why he won't run as an independent. it would torpedo any chance for rand to run later on.

    now, i won't dispute you that ron paul is more progressive than obama on a number of individual issues. but that doesn't mean progressives will support him, like the article you posted implied. reason.org is a huge libertarian outfit. so, of course they're going to jock ron paul. but it doesn't mean his chances of pulling any progressive support is any more accurate.

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    Only because of the media blackout of anything related to Paul...


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    Quote Originally Posted by knuckleboner View Post
    dude, what's laughable is the presumption that progressives will flock to ron paul. they will not. no chance. if paul ran as an independent, he would guarantee an obama win. he knows this, which is why he won't run as an independent. it would torpedo any chance for rand to run later on.

    now, i won't dispute you that ron paul is more progressive than obama on a number of individual issues. but that doesn't mean progressives will support him, like the article you posted implied. reason.org is a huge libertarian outfit. so, of course they're going to jock ron paul. but it doesn't mean his chances of pulling any progressive support is any more accurate.
    It's surprising that more progressives didn't like Bush. Obama is just like him. People let the corporate parties control them too much with issues that only seem to come up every 4 years, like gay marriage. How easily manipulated.

    However, I read the article again. It doesn't talk about progressives flocking to Obama at all. What it says is that Paul is right of the republican party and left of the democratic party depending on the issue you look at.

    It says in that in some respects, he's more progressive than Obama (and he is). It also goes on to outline why most progressives don't/won't support him. So the article seems pretty fair to me (claims on what Obama hates not-withstanding).

    So the idea that seems laughable, where progressives flock to Ron Paul, seems to be your idea, not the article's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ELVIS View Post
    Jesus friggin' christ Doc, Stop trying to be so fucking nice and cordial !!!

    This guy is just another big government liberal who thinks the answer is more big government programs and more taxpayer dollars...
    No, the answer is remembering what government is, and what it's supposed to be.

    What's the first three words of the Constiution again?

    WE THE PEOPLE

    Not "We the corporations". Not "We the bloated corrupt defense industry" or "We the greedy fucking thieves on Wall Street" or "We the foreign agents of AIPAC and the ChiCom lobbyists".

    The solution isn't bigger government or smaller government. It's smarter government working for the people and not the 1% criminals. Not wasting money on useless wars that have nothing to do with the United States. Or useless weapons like "Star Wars" and the F-22. Or subsidizing the worst industries on the planet, like big tobacco, greedy oil bastards, and franken food producers like MonSatan. It doesn't actually cost more to produce organic food than it does GMO crap "food". But MonSatan gets the subsidies, and that's why the nutritionally void crap is cheaper in the grocery stores. Shouldn't we be subsidizing actual food instead? As for the tobacco industry, there shouldn't be one anymore. Let alone a subsidized one. I'm not a prohibition advocate, so I'm not saying you need to ban the shit from the planet. Just encourage farmers to grow something else. Like sugar cane, where the climate permits it. If MonSatan was no longer subsidized, you wouldn't see high fructose corn poison in everything, so we would need more. Some of these farms could also grow hemp. No, not just the smokeable kind, though there would be nothing wrong with that either. Hemp for fabric. Hemp for biofuels (far more effecient than MonSatan corn) etc.

    We really need to roll back all this BCE bullshit of the last 32 years, and go back to the policies that saved this country from fascism the last time, and will do so again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Love View Post
    It's surprising that more progressives didn't like Bush. Obama is just like him. People let the corporate parties control them too much with issues that only seem to come up every 4 years, like gay marriage. How easily manipulated.

    However, I read the article again. It doesn't talk about progressives flocking to Obama at all. What it says is that Paul is right of the republican party and left of the democratic party depending on the issue you look at.

    It says in that in some respects, he's more progressive than Obama (and he is). It also goes on to outline why most progressives don't/won't support him. So the article seems pretty fair to me (claims on what Obama hates not-withstanding).

    So the idea that seems laughable, where progressives flock to Ron Paul, seems to be your idea, not the article's.
    Um, progressives aren't flocking to Ron Paul...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Love View Post
    It's surprising that more progressives didn't like Bush. Obama is just like him. People let the corporate parties control them too much with issues that only seem to come up every 4 years, like gay marriage. How easily manipulated.

    However, I read the article again. It doesn't talk about progressives flocking to Obama at all. What it says is that Paul is right of the republican party and left of the democratic party depending on the issue you look at.

    It says in that in some respects, he's more progressive than Obama (and he is). It also goes on to outline why most progressives don't/won't support him. So the article seems pretty fair to me (claims on what Obama hates not-withstanding).

    So the idea that seems laughable, where progressives flock to Ron Paul, seems to be your idea, not the article's.
    nope, not mine. the article's:

    Quote Originally Posted by reason.org View Post
    Yet despite Paul’s impeccable Tea Party credentials on tax and spending issues, he would be an even more appealing choice to progressives dissatisfied with President Obama
    that's just insane. progressives disillusioned with obama, and there are a number, would never, in a million years, go for ron paul.

    that's not a value judgment on ron paul's positions. but it IS an attack on a libertarian article from a heavily libertarian publication trying to assert something that they know is not accurate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    Um, progressives aren't flocking to Ron Paul...
    No shit. I'm not claiming they would be (nor is the article).

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    Quote Originally Posted by knuckleboner View Post
    nope, not mine. the article's:



    that's just insane. progressives disillusioned with obama, and there are a number, would never, in a million years, go for ron paul.

    that's not a value judgment on ron paul's positions. but it IS an attack on a libertarian article from a heavily libertarian publication trying to assert something that they know is not accurate.
    That doesn't say "progressives would flock to Ron Paul".

    Here's how I read it: Ron Paul should appeal to right-wingers. But even more so, there are issues that he has that appeal more to left-wingers (especially those upset with Obama). Not that he appeals to progressives in general more than Obama, but that he probably has more to appeal to those that care about civil liberties/the warfare state/etc

    And then it goes on to enumerate the areas where progressives would have a choice if those issues were paramount to them vs where it is today (Obama and Romney are essentially the same). And it also enumerates the areas progressives disagree with Ron Paul and why they don't "flock" to him.

    So yes, yours, not the article's.
    Last edited by Dr. Love; 05-27-2012 at 04:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FORD View Post
    No, the answer is remembering what government is, and what it's supposed to be.

    What's the first three words of the Constiution again?

    WE THE PEOPLE

    Not "We the corporations". Not "We the bloated corrupt defense industry" or "We the greedy fucking thieves on Wall Street" or "We the foreign agents of AIPAC and the ChiCom lobbyists".

    The solution isn't bigger government or smaller government. It's smarter government working for the people and not the 1% criminals. Not wasting money on useless wars that have nothing to do with the United States. Or useless weapons like "Star Wars" and the F-22. Or subsidizing the worst industries on the planet, like big tobacco, greedy oil bastards, and franken food producers like MonSatan. It doesn't actually cost more to produce organic food than it does GMO crap "food". But MonSatan gets the subsidies, and that's why the nutritionally void crap is cheaper in the grocery stores. Shouldn't we be subsidizing actual food instead? As for the tobacco industry, there shouldn't be one anymore. Let alone a subsidized one. I'm not a prohibition advocate, so I'm not saying you need to ban the shit from the planet. Just encourage farmers to grow something else. Like sugar cane, where the climate permits it. If MonSatan was no longer subsidized, you wouldn't see high fructose corn poison in everything, so we would need more. Some of these farms could also grow hemp. No, not just the smokeable kind, though there would be nothing wrong with that either. Hemp for fabric. Hemp for biofuels (far more effecient than MonSatan corn) etc.

    We really need to roll back all this BCE bullshit of the last 32 years, and go back to the policies that saved this country from fascism the last time, and will do so again.
    How about we don't subsidize any of them and leave them on an even playing field with no special favors? Let the people decide which product they want to buy and let them buy it.

    Government is corrupt. More government is more corrupt. The more power the government has, the more special interests will try to corrupt it. I agree with Paul: The answer isn't to regulate everything. Let the people choose what products they want to buy. If a company is polluting the air or environment, let the people sue them and fight it out in court. No company has the right to abuse the environment, but by regulating it and giving so much power to the government, the power will be bought and turned to serve the very groups they are supposed to "protect" us from.

    Make it easier for the people to control corporate behavior with their wallets. This isn't much different than what happened recently: The banks decided to hike their fees, and a mass exodus of customers got their attention and changed their behavior.

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    Just voted for Ron Paul and a bunch of liberty candidates for Texas!
    Last edited by Dr. Love; 05-31-2012 at 10:34 PM.

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    The Liberty movement is going to be a rude awakening for the current corrupt system in 2016 and beyond...



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    Wow, this is simply appalling. I hope the GOP aren't as bad as this in my state.

    But good on the delegates of Louisiana for standing up (even if the police do attack you for it).

    Here's some video that shows what the story is detailing. It catches 1 person being tased, it doesn't capture the 60 yr old man having his hip broken by off-duty police.



    This is taken directly from an email from a friend who lives in New Orleans:

    So the story starts a few months back. Louisiana just had their 2012 Republican Presidential Primary results in which Rick Santorum took 1st place, Mitt Romney in 2nd place, and Ron Paul in 3rd place. This secured that 10 delegates for Santorum and 5 delegates for Romney will be bound for them at the Republican National Convention in Tampa this August. The media with their lackluster knowledge of politics didn't mention that Louisiana has 46 delegates that will represent them in the National Convention, not 15. The other 41 state delegates will be chosen by the congressional delegates who will be voted on in the Louisiana Caucus. Not too long after, Louisiana held it's Caucus for the registered republicans to vote for congressional delegates who will go to the State GOP Convention and vote for the other other 41 state delegates. Louisiana has 6 Congressional Districts. Ron Paul won 4 of the 6 districts, Mitt Romney won 1 district, and both presidential candidates tied and had to split the congressional delegates in half in the 6th district. The media still remains silent through this huge victory for Ron Paul. Ron Paul will have 113 out of the 180 congressional delegates represent him and his (our) platform at the Louisiana GOP Convention. This means that Ron Paul essentially "won" Louisiana. Needless to say the establishment was not too happy about this outcome and they made plans of their own. I'm proud to say that I am one of those 118 elected congressional delegates.

    This past weekend was the Louisiana GOP Convention in Shreveport, La, where us delegates had been participating in committees and other activities to change future rules, platforms, and vote for the remaining state delegates. The GOP set up a convention schedule months in advance. The committee meetings were scheduled to be on Saturday morning and the voting of state delegates in the afternoon. Two days prior to the Convention day, the GOP Head Chairman had decided to move the committee convention up to Friday morning so that the inconvenience for delegates of missing work and making lodging accommodations would result in the absence of the elected Ron Paul delegates. Their poor tactic didn't work and everyone made arrangements to be there. The Chairman decided to hand out a new rule book which would take effect immediately on the night before Saturday's convention. This was a clear violation of the LAGOP rules that state clearly that new rules would be approved by a majority. The Chairman's new rules were obviously to favor his authority and power and keep himself immune from a majority rule. This would also give him the authority to choose certain delegates instead of letting the majority (Ron Paul supporters) vote on these certain delegates. A majority of the rules committee obviously denied this arrogant request by the Chairman on Friday.

    Saturday morning. The Committee Chairman passes out his new rule book as if nothing happened the day prior. When the congressional district leaders filed for a motion at the convention the Chairman didn't recognize the motion and purposely ignored all the motions as if the leaders were invisible. The crowd started getting restless from the blatant disrespect. A congressional district leader stands up and makes a motion to the audience to appoint a new GOP Committee Chairman. This is a legal action and is supported by the LAGOP rule book. When the majority voted and supported the favor of a new chairman the new chairman was then implemented. The old chairman lost control of the room and told the cops to arrest the person speaking to the convention who led the new vote. While the peaceful speaker was being arrested, the cops broke 4 of his fingers and I believe used a taser on him. The chairman said that he blacked out for an hour as he returned limping on a cane. (This arrest is caught on the video above.)

    The old chairman kept resuming the convention schedule despite the fact that he was legally voted out. All of us 118 delegates (majority of the room) then stood up and turned our chairs 180 degrees to put our backs to the former GOP speaker and his podium and we resumed the convention with a new Chairman and speaker appointed who was facing us from the opposite end of the room. The new chairman had a microphone and amplifier to match the volume of the former speakers mic. The former GOP chairman then had the speaker arrested because he didn't appreciate his obvious diminished power. The cops tackled the defenseless 60 something year old handicapped speaker and during the process broke his hip. He was taken out in a stroller and later arrested while he was getting X Rays in the ER. We then had a new speaker (a female) who led us through the process of voting on the rest of the 31 delegates who will represent the state of Louisiana in the Republican National Convention while the former GOP Chairman took votes with his minority delegates of who they believe will be the 31 people to represent Louisiana in Tampa.

    After the convention the cops proceeded to bully "The Ron Paul People" to leave the convention and not to loiter despite the fact that we paid for the use of the convention center. I have left this experience disgusted with the Republican Party and disgusted with the police who "protect and serve" their community. We still live in a brutal Police state where politicians and cops are above the law and will resort to physical violence against their own peaceful citizens. The establishment has broken its own rules to keep itself from a peaceful revolution that legally played and won at its own game. They've hired the police to violently restrain its own citizens and elected chairman/delegates/etc... This is a modern case of a slavery plantation's tactics to keep its slaves in line. I hope that my good work will one day pave the path for a true Republican candidate that will arise in my lifetime whether that be in Gary Johnson or whomever. For the present, there is no way I can/will ever vote for a republican for president that doesn't have the name Ron Paul. I have also found a new deep respect for non violent/peaceful protestors such as the civil rights leaders. Every bone in my body wanted to be anything but peaceful despite the police brutality I witnessed. Our president has now passed a bill that arms the FDA. What is this world coming to where we need the FDA to kick down doors with guns to prohibit the sale of unpasteurized milk from local Amish farmers? The republican party is as liberty minded and freedom loving as Joseph Stalin, Adolph Hitler, Mao Tse Tung, and all fascist government organizations that blinds its citizens facade of freedom under the blanket of nationalism.

    When i watch the nomination of Mitt Romney all I will think of is the famous quote from Star Wars when Padame says "So this is how liberty will die, with a thunderous applause."

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    JUNE 2, 2012

    LA GOP CONVENTION MADNESS

    Today, June 2, 2012, I was in attendance as a delegate in support of Ron Paul at the Louisiana Republican State Convention in Shreveport. Before the convention began I told someone if we make it through without someone being tazed I would feel the day was a success. As it turns out, I wasn’t specific enough. Why would I suggest such a thing? For some reason, the Louisiana GOP felt it was necessary to load up the Shreveport Convention Center with Shreveport and Louisiana State Police. I guess they thought us rowdy Ron Paul people would create a scene or something. (Apparently they’ve been reading our blogs) In that regard they were correct, but not in the way they were expecting.

    First, some background. The Louisiana convention delegation is made up of 25 delegates from each of the 6 LA Congressional districts. The Louisiana State Central Committee wrote into their original rules the authority to elect 5 additional delegates for each district, bringing the Convention total to 180. After the results of the district caucuses, Ron Paul delegates won 111 seats for a 62% majority, including sweeps of the 1, 2, 5, and 6th districts. Now, the LA GOP saw the writing on the wall for Ron Paul supporters to be elected to a potential 32 of 46 delegate seats to the Republican National Convention. This of course was not pleasing to them. A humorous but sad aside; an older woman in the delegation told a female Ron Paul supporter that she knew the reason she liked RP was so he could legalize drugs for her, and what is she, 19 (because age makes her views irrelevant?). Great attitude lady. Anyway, so what do the “powers that be” do? Change the rules of course, 19.5 hours before the Rules Committee was scheduled to meet. And for good measure, they appointed their own chairmen to the 3 convention committees.

    These new “Supplemental Rules” could most accurately be described as…. corrupt, power-grabbing bullshit. I was also elected to a seat on the Rules Committee. Unfortunately, I was unable to attend the committee meeting to finalize the rules for the convention. However, during the meeting, the body (made up of a majority Ron Paul supporters) voted to remove the appointed chairman and elect Alex Heilwig. Rough video of this is below.



    Now, back to the Convention itself. The first order of business was a prayer that I would best describe as a political admonition to just sit back and let the powers that be do whatever they want regardless of the will of the 62% majority body. 4 minutes later, self-appointed Chairman of the Convention, Roger Villere, asked Scott Wilfong, “Chairman of the Rules Committee,” to give the report from the committee. At that time, Alex Helwig, the duly elected Chairman of the Rules Committee, challenged this while contesting the legitimacy of Wilfong’s alleged chairmanship. The result? Shreveport and LA State Police assaulted him, breaking at least one of his fingers. Video of the dust-up below.



    Immediately proceeding those events the delegation proceeded to nominate a new Convention Chairman. The motion carried, and as you can see in the above video, the delegates turned their chairs around to continue the Convention since Roger Villere refused to acknowledge this entirely legitimate and proper procedural move. So, what would Villere and the LA GOP do next? Of course, it’s not a real party until the cops assault 2 political activists.



    What you saw in that video, was elected Chairman Henry Herford being forcibly dragged away from the proceedings before being injured and subsequently arrested by Shreveport Police. After that craziness calmed down, the majority of the delegation continued with the business of electing delegates to represent Louisiana at the Republican National Convention. Roger Villere continued to have the minority portion of the delegation proceed with their own elections.

    So, what next? Now the RNC will receive both results of elected delegates and choose who to seat at the convention in Tampa in August. Ask yourself, which process seems more legitimate to you? What country do we live in where political parties can change rules whenever the results don’t seem to be going their way? What country do we live in where a political party hack can have police assault an elected member? That’s right, here in the USA. Also, I forgot to mention that the event was on private property so there is a question as to whether the police even had the authority to remove anyone.

    Anyway, there you go ladies and gentlemen. This is what the Louisiana Republican Party has become. And you wonder why rLOVEution is under way…
    wow...

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    oh nice, at the end of the last video, the police try to take his phone as "evidence" because he recorded the incident.

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