Songwriting credits on the new album

[VHscraps]

Indeed. That's something that comes up in Hagar's book - once Van Hagar started to fall out with each other, he wanted to know why Al was getting songwriting royalties. He even says somewhere in the book 'when Dave was in the band, it was Dave and Eddie who wrote all the songs'.

[DLR Bridge]

I always felt that Mike played his ass off with his own personal style from his '74 audition in the Van Halen's garage through WACF. I think if he ever writes a book, we'll find out that he played little or no bass in the studio from Fair Warning on.

[VHscraps]

Haha - Rolf Harris, the secret source of rock'n'roll.

Alice Cooper did one of Rolf's songs, 'Sun Arise' on the 1971 album, Love it to Death.



I once passed Rolf walking up Hope Street in Glasgow on a dead Sunday morning, about 10 years ago. Some cars went past and sounded their horn - Rolf waved, of course.

He's a BIG guy.

[Vinnie Velvet]

What happened to Mike's credits on 1984?

In the liner notes in BOV1, Mike does not get any writing credit for Panama and Jump - whereas originally of course he did.

I remember when Panama was featured in the movie 'Superbad' (2007) and at the end of the movie's credits it again states under Panama, "written by David Lee Roth, Edward Van Halen and Alex Van Halen."

????

[academic punk]

The same thing that happened to Dave Grohl and Krist Novoselic's songwriting credits on Nevermind.

IN each case, the VH brothers and Kurt Cobain told their bandmate(s) that either they cede songwriting royalties or there would be no tour.

Over time, the royalties might make more money. But the tour generates MILLIONS in the span of months.

What would you do? (Plus, it must be said: it's the honest thing to do. If you didn't write it, you shouldn't get it)

[VHscraps]

Think they changed songwriting publishers as well - it might have been in the aftermath of the lawsuit Dave had against them (don't know if that was before '96 and BOV1, or after - or if there was more than one lawsuit ...)

On the '1984' vinyl album, the music publisher is simply 'Warner Bros. Music'; on the 2000 Remaster CD, it is 'Diamond Dave Music / Van Halen Music' and now, according to the listings at ASCAP, it is 'Diamond Dave Music / Mugambi Publishing', both c/o Warner Bros Music / Warner Chappell.

Curiously Mike is still on the credits of the 2000 remaster of the 1984 album ...

but that might just be because (in typical Warner's no-frills VH reissue style) they never bothered to add a single damn thing to the original packaging, no additional notes or anything - so all the names and stuff maybe just remained as they were in the CD booklet when it first came out.

Don't have an original copy of the '1984' CD to check, but '1984' originally only came out on Vinyl and Cassette - the CD might have appeared a year or two later, in 85, 86?? I dunno ...

[VHscraps]

The same thing that happened to Dave Grohl and Krist Novoselic's songwriting credits on Nevermind.

IN each case, the VH brothers and Kurt Cobain told their bandmate(s) that either they cede songwriting royalties or there would be no tour.

Over time, the royalties might make more money. But the tour generates MILLIONS in the span of months.

What would you do? (Plus, it must be said: it's the honest thing to do. If you didn't write it, you shouldn't get it)

There was an article in a newspaper over here about royalties from Christmas songs:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/dec/23/christmas-hits?newsfeed=true

it never really gets to the nitty-gritty with figures, but it seems like writers whose hits are guaranteed to get airplay can make tidy sums each year.

Another one I pulled up on Google, from 1996 that claims that Gerry Rafferty's song 'Baker Street' (a hit in the late 70s) still earns him £100k plus per year in airplay revenues alone.

That's the key thing, probably - airplay.

[DLR Bridge]

Lennon & McCartney had it right. Ringo most definitely didn't get the % of the pie Mike A got. He made OK though.

[Seshmeister]

There was an article in a newspaper over here about royalties from Christmas songs:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/dec/23/christmas-hits?newsfeed=true

it never really gets to the nitty-gritty with figures, but it seems like writers whose hits are guaranteed to get airplay can make tidy sums each year.

Another one I pulled up on Google, from 1996 that claims that Gerry Rafferty's song 'Baker Street' (a hit in the late 70s) still earns him £100k plus per year in airplay revenues alone.

That's the key thing, probably - airplay.

I think it varies wildly, I've heard stories of musicians you will have heard of getting annual checks for amounts like £1.46 or so.

I don't know much about the airplay figures, I do know the guy that wrote the 30 second theme tune to the 'Have I got News for you' TV show gets £30 every time it's shown.

[VHscraps]

Back in Elvis's heydey, he used to get a co-songwriting credit on some of the tunes he recorded.

He never had anything to do with writing the songs, but the argument was - "if Elvis records it, it is gonna sell way more than it ever would otherwise", hence the writers were only too happy to give up a share of the writing credit to Elvis.

You listen to a song like 'Hound Dog' - Elvis never wrote it, and it was also recorded before by others, so his version is not even the first one - but he just owns it. What he brings to it, just makes it so much better than it was.

[So this is love]

BAH!!!!!!!! MA has probably earned about 30-40 mil in career with VH.
I mean WHO CARES!!!!!!!!!!

[VHscraps]

I think it varies wildly, I've heard stories of musicians you will have heard of getting annual checks for amounts like £1.46 or so.

I don't know much about the airplay figures, I do know the guy that wrote the 30 second theme tune to the 'Have I got News for you' TV show gets £30 every time it's shown.

Same with literary writers - you hear all about the huge amounts some writers make, but a recent newspaper story said that the average royalties received by UK writers (i.e., including all the big hitters in that average) is about four grand.

[Seshmeister]

The funny stat I heard recently was that there is ONE artist in Ireland that makes enough to live on without having to rely on social security or a second job.

I mean painter type artist.

One.

[chefcraig]

Do you think Alex Van Halen would get writing credits if he wasn't Eddie's brother? My guess is that most of the time he got a writing credit just for being there when Eddie was writing riffs.

Perhaps. Then again, who is to say that Al didn't start some drum pattern that suggested the riff in the first place?

[ZahZoo]

Funny some think the drums are not an integral part of a composition. Alex plays some of the most complex rhythms and fills on every song... in some cases no less innovative than Ed's guitar work.

There's a reason there's 4 guys on stage... it's way more than singin and guitar shredding...

[Vinnie Velvet]

Funny some think the drums are not an integral part of a composition. Alex plays some of the most complex rhythms and fills on every song... in some cases no less innovative than Ed's guitar work.

There's a reason there's 4 guys on stage... it's way more than singin and guitar shredding...

I agree.

I would suggest that Dave and Eddie do the bulk of the writing, but that Alex has a significant contribution as well.

[chefcraig]

There's a reason there's 4 guys on stage... it's way more than singin and guitar shredding...

Exactly. Being one myself, I happen to know that the reason nearly all bass players are employed is usually because they are the only member of the band that actually owns a car.

[mohican]

Even before 2004, as well - at the time of the '96 Best Of Van Halen, Mike's credits were already changed on some tunes. On Jump, for one, his name wasn't on the credits anymore. Just looking at ASCAP, he's no longer credited as a writer on any of the 1984 album.

Good observation. I just checked on lyricsfreak and noticed they now have band member names listed whereas it used to be van halen. And MA wasn't on 1984 but remained on the Hagar songs. They must have made the change recently because it used to be vh for all the cvh songs.

[binnie]

This I do know: Wolife will be creditted with 'Coffee & muffins'.

[stringfelowhawk]

Isn't that pretty much what that dim-bulb Vanilla Ice tried to say when he ripped off the bass line of "Under Pressure" by Queen and David Bowie for "Ice Ice Baby?"

OMFG!! That is the first thing that popped in my mind when I read that.... Watching his dumbass on MTV trying and failing to convince everyone that bass line wasn't the same is comedy gold.....

[redfire]

Didnt mike sign everything away in 2004 ?

I thought I remembered hearing this back in 04-05 after the tour fell apart. Mike said he has to sign away his writing rights.

Also, just because a song was never recorded doesn't mean Van Halen didn't copyright it. In fact I would assume they would copyright all the songs they write and record (as demos).

[academic punk]

Back in Elvis's heydey, he used to get a co-songwriting credit on some of the tunes he recorded.

He never had anything to do with writing the songs, but the argument was - "if Elvis records it, it is gonna sell way more than it ever would otherwise", hence the writers were only too happy to give up a share of the writing credit to Elvis.

You listen to a song like 'Hound Dog' - Elvis never wrote it, and it was also recorded before by others, so his version is not even the first one - but he just owns it. What he brings to it, just makes it so much better than it was.

Yup - and of course the example of payola - radio DJs like Alan Freed getting songwriting credits for songs that they had NOTHING to do with writing, but there they are with 50% of the credit.

Why? Because if Chuck Berry wanted Maybelline to get any airplay - read, to find an audience - then you're going to have to pay for the dance. Mr. Freed is happy to promote your song - so long as it was his song too.

[Bill Lumbergh]

Let me be the first to say. WHO GIVES A FUCK?

Yep!!