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Thread: Stand Your Ground Doesn't Equal Neighborhood (Death Squad) Watch

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    Quote Originally Posted by MUSICMANN View Post
    Like i said, would this have made national news if Zimmerman would have ended up the victim and the teen runs away in the night , with nobody knowing what had happened.
    Not the same situation, Zimmerman had a gun, the kid had Skittles...

    I can use personal experience, not first hand, but a cousin in my family, that shot a illegal Mexican that was banging on his door at 2:00 in the morning. My cousin said he clearly shouted at the guy to leave and get off his property, but the dude didn't. He kept trying to get in the house. Now my cousin had a choice, he could have fled out the back door and called the police while getting as far away as possible, or do what he did. Went out the back door, dude up front trying to get in, my cousin approaches him, the dude turns around and my cousin shoots him dead with a shotgun. He never went to jail and was cleared of any wrong doing.
    Sounds almost hypothetically implausible, but okay: the guy was on his property, again not even a remotely similar situation. Your cousin has a right to defend his property and family. Why exactly he'd do an "end-around" I don't know...

    My point being, that was a, in the moment situation and not a premeditated one. The same can be said about this right here. Now that the story is becoming clearer, it definitely seems like it was a, in the moment confrontation where you had one armed individual that felt his life was being threatened in that moment in time.
    Um, the kid was on a public street and not trying to enter anyones' property. Maybe your cousin can go out and accost people then shoot them based on poor judgement?

    Why did the teen approach Zimmerman and starting beating him down. He didn't know Zimmerman from Santa Claus and surely didn't think far enough ahead that he could be possibly confronting another person that might have a weapon. The right thing he should have done was run away but he didn't. He took a chance and paid for it with his life. In this day and age, you just never know what people will do in stressed situation. You don't know if their armed or drugged out or just fucking crazy. You know the old saying, don't bring a knife to a gunfight, but really if all you have is your fist and you don't know if the other person has a knife or gun, it's best to run.
    Um, Zimmerman approached him. Everything afterward is based on Zimmerman's unquestionably biased account of what happened next...
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbranton View Post
    Yeah, I think people HAVE forgotten. The KKK lynched more Republicans than blacks back in the day.
    It was a completely different Republican Party, one that didn't benefit from white southern racists defecting in droves after Democrats rammed through desegregation...

    Are you guys suddenly "Radical Republicans" now?

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    There's also this thread to chew on:

    http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/showt...ng-Wrong-House

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    Quote Originally Posted by gbranton View Post
    As Ronnie was quoted in the very first post on this thread, the Republicans are the party of individual rights, they had probably had enough of working for the collective.
    ....
    Unless you're black and walking in the wrong time and place apparently...

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    Quote Originally Posted by gbranton View Post
    By the way, Lincoln did not like black people. Though he signed the Emancipation Proclamation, he wanted to send tem all back to Africa or put them all on an island in the Caribbean.
    He postulated this early on as a way to remove any arguments by white plantation owners, the very small minority of southerners that controlled policy, then disposed of the ideas as impractical and impossible. I believe Lincoln personally had a black valet or butler that was considered a close friend and confidant...

    What he REALLY fought the Civil War for was to preserve the Union.
    And the Union was being destroyed by...DUM...dum..DUMMM!!! (slavery)...

    "My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union." - Abraham Lincoln, August 22, 1862.
    That's called being a politician. Slavery was in fact being ended and made obsolete anyways, the Southern States seceded because they knew this. But I applaud your ability to fraudulently quote history out of context...

  6. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbranton View Post
    States did and technically still do have the right to succeed. It was protectionism for Nothern manufacturers. The southern states leaving the union would have had a devasating effect on the North's economy, as many essental goods such as cotton and tobacco came from the South. Factories would have been idled, unemployment would have been rampant and the North's economy could very well have collapsed. Lincoln relied on heavy contributions from manufacturers and the railroad industry, who needed to keep the Union intact in order to keep their businesses running, many think he gave in to that pressure to preserve the Union.
    Succession only made the Northern industry stronger, and the South was seceding because they thought they were being economically marginalized. Also, the South simply stole a whole host of resources that were financed via mostly Norther expenditures such as military armories and forts without any sort of negotiation or agreement...

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    Shut the fuck up nickdfeltch. Damn!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catfish View Post
    This thread is a bunch of liberals gagging on each others' pricks! It's hilarious!
    Welcome to my world bro.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gbranton View Post
    I don't think they serve the SAME corpoate intersts entirely. There is some overlap, but Repubs are more cloesly aligned with the military industrial complex, which explains their affinity for being the world police and their zeal to bring "freedom" to everyone who has the resorces to pay for weapons, while the Dems are in the pockets of those selling carbon credits and the like, which explains them throwing away money on non-sustainable "green" technology and the EPA.
    There seems to be two camps behind the scenes of the politics. One camp seems to want non stop war to feed the military industrial complex. The other camp seems to want to have high taxes on energy and have the energy itself tightly controlled and expensive.

    To be honest, I think if we had a president make a challenge to get off oil in ten years we could do it. I think we could make energy so cheap it would transform the world. The thing is it would make the oil industry a buggy whip industry. To continue the oil program will only mean more environmental damage from fracking, strip mining tar sands, to deep ocean blowouts. I notice they have had another one in the north sea now.

    We could do a lot of things but sadly it seems like the institutions who could actually organize and finance the solutions are the problem themselves. Too many crooks wanting to fleece the public rather than help them. People seem to be waking up to it now though. The only question is how to you fix it?
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    Why is it okay for Spike Lee to text his 250,000 followers Zimmermans address? What is he hoping/expecting them to do with it? If something happened & someone went and killed him, wouldn't Spike be responsible?

    Dumb Spike texted the wrong address. lol. what an idiot. Poor people that do live there are in a motel out of fear. I hope they sue his crappy movie making ass for ton$.



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    Last edited by sadaist; 03-28-2012 at 08:38 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jagermeister View Post
    Shut the fuck up nickdfeltch. Damn!
    Fuck you, Fagerfister!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    Succession only made the Northern industry stronger, and the South was seceding because they thought they were being economically marginalized. Also, the South simply stole a whole host of resources that were financed via mostly Norther expenditures such as military armories and forts without any sort of negotiation or agreement...
    War always makes industry stronger unless of course it gets bombed out by the enemy. Once Lincoln printed up his green backs and accepted them as payment of taxes, he had what he needed to oil the north's industrial base and winning the war fueled the demand.

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    You think the South could ever have won?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    Fuck you, Fagerfister!
    Have you been drinking? WTF is wrong with you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gbranton View Post
    I PERSONALLY wouldn't rank him too highly. He suspended Habius Corpus, then issued an arrest warrant for a Supreme Court Chief Justice when he correctly ruled that according to Article I of the Constitution, only Congress, not the president, could suspend the Great Writ of Habeas Corpus. He jailed newpaper editors who dared disagree with him, turned the US Army on it's own citizens in placs like New York City to quash protests and then put tens of tousands of them in prison. He put captured Confederate soldiers into prison camps where thousand died of hunger, disease and exposure.
    Lincoln probably wouldn't be looked at too highly if he didn't free the slaves. He probably would be looked at as a tyrant president that caused a big bloody war. My family immigrated to the US after the civil war so it really had no impact from an ancestral point of view. My father in law is from the south an had lots of ancestors who fought for the confederacy. He views Lincoln in about the same light as Adolf Hitler. A real tyrant. But then he calls the civil war the war of northern aggression. I grew up with the typical school textbook Lincoln. He was the guy that wore the stove pipe hat who freed the slaves. It was funny to hear him put in the same class as Hitler.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jagermeister View Post
    Have you been drinking? WTF is wrong with you?
    I haven't even started, oh poster named after shitty liquor drunken by mongoloid dicklicks...

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadaist View Post
    Why is it okay for Spike Lee to text his 250,000 followers Zimmermans address? What is he hoping/expecting them to do with it? If something happened & someone went and killed him, wouldn't Spike be responsible?

    Dumb Spike texted the wrong address. lol. what an idiot. Poor people that do live there are in a motel out of fear. I hope they sue his crappy movie making ass for ton$.



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    It wasn't right! No one said Dick Lee was right. He's a cunt, and an incompetent cunt since not only did he attempt to fuck with Zimmerman, he actually posted the WRONG address thereby endangering an elderly couple...I hope they sue his ass to hell...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    I haven't even started, oh poster named after shitty liquor drunken by mongoloid dicklicks...
    ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    You think the South could ever have won?
    Let's say Lee didn't make the mistakes he did at Gettysburg and flanked the union army and got some high ground between them and Washington DC and won that battle. Lee could have taken Washington. I don't know if he could have held it though. Unless you destroy your enemy's capacity to wage war they always can come back and get you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    You think the South could ever have won?
    Ever seen the movie "CSA". It's a "documentary" film about what this country probably would have looked like over the last 150 years, had the South won.

    Hell, I'll be damned if somebody didn't throw the whole thing up on YouTube......

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    I'd imagine Zimmerman is going to have an uphill battle invoking the Stand Your Ground defense, seeing as there is a 911 recording where Zimmerman is clearly instructed by law enforcement not to continue following the teen.

    Any prosecution lawyer with a minimal amount of sense will argue that had Zimmerman followed those telephonic instructions, the outcome would have been different. Prior to whatever altercation Zimmerman and the teen got into after Zimmerman got out of his car, while Zimmerman was on the phone to the police he was in his car and armed. The teen was on foot and unarmed.

    I do agree that Spike Lee, Al Sharpton, The Black Panthers and all these various hoodie vigils aren't really helpful at this point...but it's hard to see how Zimmerman DOESN'T end up being indicted, charged and convicted at this point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Express View Post
    Let's say Lee didn't make the mistakes he did at Gettysburg and flanked the union army and got some high ground between them and Washington DC and won that battle. Lee could have taken Washington. I don't know if he could have held it though. Unless you destroy your enemy's capacity to wage war they always can come back and get you.
    What ifs are hard to really say much about. The Union might well have crushed the Confederacy had they won the Battle(s) of Bull Run. In any case, Lee lost because he no longer enjoyed his massive intelligence advantage while invading the North. Agrarian economies seldom fare well against industrial ones that outnumber them in manpower as well...

    Quote Originally Posted by FORD View Post
    Ever seen the movie "CSA". It's a "documentary" film about what this country probably would have looked like over the last 150 years, had the South won.

    Hell, I'll be damned if somebody didn't throw the whole thing up on YouTube......

    I think most historians believe they would have reentered the Union via a negotiated settlement...
    Last edited by Nickdfresh; 03-28-2012 at 09:11 PM.

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    My brother was fascinated by the Battle of Gettysburg and studied the various clashes in it. He said one major reason the Union won that battle was the calvary had the spencer repeating carbine. They could lay down more fire power and could keep the high ground until the infantry caught up. In those days whoever got the high ground usually won the battle. So the Union was starting to advance over the confederacy from a technological standpoint as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    It wasn't right! No one said Dick Lee was right. He's a cunt, and an incompetent cunt since not only did he attempt to fuck with Zimmerman, he actually posted the WRONG address thereby endangering an elderly couple...I hope they sue his ass to hell...
    All these idiots who are trying to grandstand on what is a tragic situation and making it worse really look like idiots. Frankly these guys are their own worst enemies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    I'd imagine Zimmerman is going to have an uphill battle invoking the Stand Your Ground defense, seeing as there is a 911 recording where Zimmerman is clearly instructed by law enforcement not to continue following the teen.
    A 911 operator is not an officer or authority of the law...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    He postulated this early on as a way to remove any arguments by white plantation owners, the very small minority of southerners that controlled policy, then disposed of the ideas as impractical and impossible. I believe Lincoln personally had a black valet or butler that was considered a close friend and confidant....
    A close friend or confidant? Not likely.

    "I have no purpose to introduce political and social equality between the white and black races. There is a physical difference between the two, which, in my judgment, will probably forever forbid their living together upon the footing of perfect equality; and inasmuch as it becomes a necessity that there must be a difference, I, as well as Judge Douglas, am in the favor of the race to which I belong having the superior position. I have never said anything to the contrary." -- Abraham Lincoln, "Lincoln's Reply to Douglas, Ottawa, Illinois, August 21, 1858," in "Abraham Lincoln: His Speeches and Writings, ed. Roy P. Basler (New York: Da Capo Press, 1990), p. 445

    "I will say, then, that I am not nor have ever been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the black and white races---that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with White people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the White and black races which will ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together, there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I, as much as any other man, am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the White race." -- Abraham Lincoln, "Fourth Lincoln-Douglas Debate, September 18, 1858, Charleston, Illinois," in "Abraham Lincoln: Speeches and Writings" (New York: Library of America, 1989), p. 636, and in Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, Volume 5, page 371



    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    And the Union was being destroyed by...DUM...dum..DUMMM!!! (slavery)...

    Slavery was in fact being ended and made obsolete anyways, the Southern States seceded because they knew this.
    No, the Union was destroyed over the issueS of state's rights, social and economic differences AND slavery. But as you said slavery was going away regardless.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    Also, the South simply stole a whole host of resources that were financed via mostly Norther expenditures such as military armories and forts without any sort of negotiation or agreement...
    The South was goaded into the Civil War just as surely as the Japanese were goaded into bombing Pearl Harbor. Lincoln wanted the war so badly that while Congress was in recess the Lincoln warmongers had multiple provocations in the works to resupply and land troops in the Southern forts that were under a truce. At the time that was clearly an act of war. But their plan was to get the Confederates to fire on the resupply ships and then accuse them of starting the war.

    The Union had agreed to pull out of the Southern port forts and a truce was in effect. Confederate peace negotiators in Arlington, Virginia were assured that the North had no military intentions toward the seceded South. To get the war started Lincoln launched multiple resupply missions to several of the forts, an act of war at the time, to get the Confederate States of America forces to fire on them which they did at Sumter in Charleston. Lincoln claimed that an innocent food supply convoy had been attacked. The National Archives show they were landing troops, artillery and munitions. The loading manifests for the Fort Sumter ships have been open in the National Archive for over 100 years, they clearly show the troops and cannons on the manifests.

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    Also what made the war happen was the north and south might have well been two different countries. The economies were different. The people were different. The culture was different. Even the climate was different. Two parts of a nation that really didn't have that much in common. That made it easier for both sides to demonize each other. I remember being in a restaurant in Georgia with my parents and they just ignored us. When my dad asked to be served the reply was "We don't serve Yankees here!" That was in 1981. Then I had a boss from San Francisco that just automatically hated anyone from the south. He would start with the sister marrying and chicken screwing jokes. He assumed everyone was a racist. That was in 1995. So in a lot of ways, the civil war still goes on.

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    1-the USA Civil War - slavery has not sustained anywhere in western civilization country's or any developed nation - with or without civil war it was going to go bye bye in the USA

    - the civil war did begin the slippery slope of diminishing states rights and giving more power to the centralized federal gov't - is that for the better ?

    2- how many people here work in the human services or civil rights field ? any ? just curious ..
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    Not surprising that this thread has turned into a debate on the Civil War.... considering the fact that the entire FALSE case for racist thug murderer Zimmerman took a dive into the toilet in the last 24 hours, with the release of the police video, showing a very healthy looking Zimmerman being brought into the Sanford police station, without a scratch or drop of blood on him, let alone a broken nose or the type of damage to the back of his head one would expect if one's freshly shaved head had been slammed into concrete as his cover story claimed.

    And now it's been revealed that Daddy Zimmerman was a right wing judge, and once that came to light, the old man started spinning like a draidel on meth to FAUX Noize, about all the "hatred" from the "librul media" the Congressional Black Caucus, and the President, who made the "hateful" statement that "if I had a son, he would look like Trayvon Martin".

    Another coverup con job from the racist right wing. Congrats, Repukes for believing more lies from the same idiots who brought you 30 years of fucked up horseshit that has destroyed this country.

  31. 3 users say thank you to FORD for this KICKASS post:

    evil_lil (03-30-2012),jhale667 (03-29-2012),Nickdfresh (03-30-2012)


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    Now that the video's come out, Zimmerman's claim is shot to hell. Ever seen anyone that just got their nose broken NOT have a black eye (if not two) a few hours later? No bruising, no swelling, NOTHING that would indicate he was struck. The dude's lying.
    Last edited by jhale667; 03-29-2012 at 03:28 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jagermeister View Post
    What it DOES say is that Zimmerman's full of sh*t. Martin's gf was on the phone with him up until a minute before the cops arrived. The timeline doesn't support Zimmerman's account. Another report I just read indicates witnesses say rather than try to render assistance to the kid after shooting him, he stood over him and held him down - wtf would you do that when you just shot someone in the chest?? The "fight" was clearly over at that point.

    http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...trayvon-martin

    Not going to re-post the entire thing here, but there's a couple of standout quotes:



    A woman who says she and her roommate witnessed the final moments of Trayvon Martin's life told Dateline NBC that George Zimmerman had "his hands pressed on his back" and "never turned him over or tried to help him."

    Mary Cutcher told Dateline that she and her roommate both saw Zimmerman "straddling the body, basically a foot on both sides of Trayvon's body, and his hands pressed on his back."

    Cutcher added that Zimmerman told her and her roommate to call the police.

    "Zimmerman never turned him over or tried to help him or CPR or anything," Cutcher said.


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    I think the majority of the country is past the racist bullshit. Honestly, we just need to stop giving the fuck twits attention.
    Last edited by Nitro Express; 03-29-2012 at 04:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Express View Post
    I think the majority of the country is past the racist bullshit. Honestly, we just need to stop giving the fuck twits attention.

    If you look at the irrational rush to demonize this kid (even by a couple of 'tards on this board) to somehow justify this insane a**hat targetting, stalking, and shooting an unarmed kid for walking while black, you see unfortunately we've still got a LONG way to go before racist bullsh*t is a thing of the past.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    Not the same situation, Zimmerman had a gun, the kid had Skittles...



    Sounds almost hypothetically implausible, but okay: the guy was on his property, again not even a remotely similar situation. Your cousin has a right to defend his property and family. Why exactly he'd do an "end-around" I don't know...



    Um, the kid was on a public street and not trying to enter anyones' property. Maybe your cousin can go out and accost people then shoot them based on poor judgement?



    Um, Zimmerman approached him. Everything afterward is based on Zimmerman's unquestionably biased account of what happened next...

    Well, with that new video coming out, i just can't see it happening the way Zimmerman said it did. Anyone that knows anything about a broken nose, knows that, blood just goes just fucking everywhere and he just doesn't have the appearance of someone who was getting the shit kicked out of him. Blood would have been all over his shirt even after he got attended to from the paramedics. People do some stupid shit in the heat of the moment. If it is proved that he shot that kid because of some bullshit, he deserves to get everything he is getting. On the other hand, this needs to just be settled within the system and all this media circus needs to just back off.

    The reason why i said, if this would have been the other way around, and the teen would have had the gun and attacked and killed Zimmerman, it would not have made national news, is because, that type of crime is so common. Black on black crime, black on white crime, white on white crime happens so much everyday, i really think the public is just numb to it, and that's a shame. It needs to be addressed and instead of Jackson and Sharpton and the majority of blacks in this country coming out of their hole when only this type of crime happens, they need to be proactive within their own community and not when it's this low percentage white killing a black type of event. You don't see these guys unless it's this type of an event and all the other killings that is around 90% black on black happen each and every day, and they are nowhere to be found, yet the black community follows them like sheep.

    Like i said though, there is always a way around this type of situation. Even if Zimmerman was pursuing the teen, it didn't need to become confrontational and that will be determined by how close were the two standing from each other when the trigger was pulled. If Zimmerman screamed out, stop, turn around i got a gun, and just fired on the kid, whoa, that's crazy/murder. If it is found that Zimmerman caught up with the teen and the teen took a forceful attitude and started to come toward Zimmerman, even with a gun drawn, i could imagine a backing off and a more civil conversation of, hey man, i live right up the road here, just walking home, you can follow me, i don't care type of thing happening. If that didn't happen and the gun was never drawn and the teen kept coming forward and once they were in the heat of things the gun was pulled and fired, it doesn't make it right, but cooler heads would have led this situation to much different outcome without a killing being involved.
    Last edited by MUSICMANN; 03-29-2012 at 05:11 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhale667 View Post
    If you look at the irrational rush to demonize this kid (even by a couple of 'tards on this board) to somehow justify this insane a**hat targetting, stalking, and shooting an unarmed kid for walking while black, you see unfortunately we've still got a LONG way to go before racist bullsh*t is a thing of the past.
    Oh come on. We don't have big KKK rallies in Washington DC anymore. 25 years ago you could tell racist jokes and people would laugh. They don't now and you get called out on it. Mississippi isn't burning anymore. We don't have segregation anymore. You see black people in places you never used to see them and everyone seems fine with it. Before there would be all the talking behind their back and wishing they weren't here. We elected a black president and that would be impossible 30 years ago.

    If you are looking for perfection it's not there. There is always going to be the few who are going to make race an issue.

    Gee maybe they will even serve us Yankees in Georgia now.

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    Like i said though, there is always a way around this type of situation. Even if Zimmerman was pursuing the teen, it didn't need to become confrontational and that will be determined by how close were the two standing from each other when the trigger was pulled. If Zimmerman screamed out, stop, turn around i got a gun, and just fired on the kid, whoa, that's crazy/murder. If it is found that Zimmerman caught up with the teen and the teen took a forceful attitude and started to come toward Zimmerman, even with a gun drawn, i could imagine a backing off and a more civil conversation of, hey man, i live right up the road here, just walking home, you can follow me, i don't care type of thing happening. If that didn't happen and the gun was never drawn and the teen kept coming forward and once they were in the heat of things the gun was pulled and fired, it doesn't make it right, but cooler heads would have led this situation to much different outcome without a killing being involved.
    Look at how renta cops over react with tazers. They taze everything that moves now. In fact, older experienced police officers say these less than lethal weapons make people sloppy. Where they should use more judgement and people skills they just reach for the tazer and use it. It's over reacting. When you over react with a gun you kill the person. I say give them a cell phone and a big can of pepper spray. That should handle most situations it works on the nasty bears around here and nobody gets killed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Express View Post
    Mississippi isn't burning anymore.

    No, but a recent study found over 20% of white residents there still believe interracial marriage should be illiegal (40+ years after the civil rights movement, when we currently have a multi-ethnic POTUS, that's pathetic). So, still a long way to go. And to your point, Zimmerman is clearly one of those few who still made race an issue.

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    So racism won't be a thing of the past until everyone welcomes interracial marriage ??

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