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Thread: Stand Your Ground Doesn't Equal Neighborhood (Death Squad) Watch

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    Quote Originally Posted by Headly1984 View Post
    waiting for knuckleboner to insult me for being polite in a private community - or for following the rules of a private community to prevent negative attention and trouble
    we'll then you'll be waiting a LOOOONG time. the knuckleboner doesn't need insults.

    that said, it's irrelevant whether you or anybody else is polite when you're questioned in a gated community. the fact is that zimmerman did what he was ostensibly supposed to do - he called the police. and he was told to let the police handle it. he chose to ignore that. that's all undisputed. he could've been the most polite motherfucker on the planet, and at the end of the day he still unnecessarily inserted himself in a situation that escalated into a death.

    however, i'm willing to listen if you've got an argument that although the 2nd amendment applies in a gated community, the 4th amendment's unnecessary...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Headly1984 View Post
    Records show Zimmerman, 28, called the cops 46 times between January 2011 and Feb. 26.

    Many of the calls appear related to his crime-watch volunteer role. The most frequent reason for his calls — nine times — was to report a suspicious person, according to Sanford Police Department records released last week.

    over a 14 month period - he called 9 times about a suspicious person - whoo.... bad man ...
    Hey, I'm not taking a side here. And I appreciate the clarification. Seriously.

    But unless I'm mistaken, and I certainly could be, didn't this confrontation take place within arm's length? Meaning one of these two guys approached the other? If Zimmerman approached this guy - and by all of the "news reports" it was him approaching this guy, then Zimmerman should have backed off when he felt the situation was about to go bad. One of the first things you'll learn in an armed self defense class is to retreat from the threat when possible. One of the next things you'll learn is to not go looking for trouble. In the state of North Carolina we have the Castle Doctrine - look it up. And no where does it say that a legally armed citizen can chase down someone who "looks suspicious". Or for God's sake is "wearing a hoodie". And what kind of bull-fucking-shit is that??? And why have I never heard it??? I've lived in the South most of my life - admittedly the most racist part of this country. And somehow I've never heard that a fucking "hoodie" equates to a maniacal, doped-up, BLACK killer of innocent white people??? How have I missed that? Geez, maybe because IT'S ALL A BUNCH OF SHIT!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Express View Post
    That being said I think the country would elect another black president. It's the small minded shit heads who get stired up over this sort of thing. The people Al Sharpton can easily manipulate or the white people listening to their snack handling minister. The people who are more sophisticated and think for themselves instead of having to have some cheerleader think for them aren't buying into it.
    I'm no fan of Obama's but I am glad that a black man got elected President. I was hoping that it would be a transcendental moment in America's history that would be the beginning of the end of all the race shit in America, but sadly he has only served to make things worse at times. I'd vote for someone like Walter E. Williams in a second and have admiration for Justice Clarence Thomas.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbranton View Post
    I'm no fan of Obama's but I am glad that a black man got elected President. I was hoping that it would be a transcendental moment in America's history that would be the beginning of the end of all the race shit in America, but sadly he has only served to make things worse at times. I'd vote for someone like Walter E. Williams in a second and have admiration for Justice Clarence Thomas.
    That's the the thing. There was the sound barrier and we broke it. In US politics there was the race barrier. I can remember Eddie Murphy making jokes about how impossible it would be to have a black president in the 1980's. Now we elected one. We finally broke the race barrier and that's a good thing.

    I think Barrack Obama could have been a good president. He certainly had the public presentation ability and was smart enough to learn the presidency. But he chose to be an aloof president much like George W. Bush and let his financial backers run things. We have a president that is just letting those guys rob us blind. That is why the Obama administration and Bush administration burned through so much money.

    Bill Clinton with all his faults and corruption at least studied the presidency. Clinton was known to be a micromanager. Now I thought he sold us out but not as bad as Obama and Bush but at least the guy was managing things. I really have a dislike for absentee presidents and we have had two in a row during some really challenging times. It's not good. We need leadership. That is what is lacking in Washington. We have a bunch of leaches and buffoons and no real leaders.
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    how many people here live in a gated community - ?

    if a young man is walking late at night by himself, a member of the private community will more times than not ask, who are you here to visit - everyone knows everyone - it is a private community - if a 6'3 guy is asked where you going and then puts his hood up and walks away - what does that body language say - Fuck you ?

    oh yeah, well fuck you kid, I live here and I dont want trouble - either you are visiting and all is ok or it's not - which is it ? then whack - a broken nose and a tussle - then bang - florida has different gun laws, it isn't castle -if you go to florida much - you see the news - everynight there are shootings - people know the laws and are familiar with why not to fuck around - there is high, high unemployment rates, lots of crime and lots of gun owners legal and not legal - best to be polite in florida at night - not belligerent - the kid is no angle he wanted trouble - he figured guy wasn;t armed is my .002 and lost his gamble

    either way - the world has Iran with the bomb and North Korea is launching a long range missile than can deliver a nuke to your door - who gives a fuq if a couple of idiots tussled and one died, people get killed every day in gang violence- - even innocents by wild shots fired -but dont snitch is even in rap songs - where is the black leaders then ? the story is still white on black - why ? who is white in this scenario ?

    and who can defend a thug uniform ? hoodie up, baggie pants and white t-shirt - generic thug wear - now chic in honor of a punk kid who wanted trouble - or he could have said - hey mr, I am going to my fathers g/f house at 123 main st and walked away ...


    race baiting is horrible and divisive - our president fueled the flames of racism like an azz not like a leader - too bad I cannot stand Mitt and am voting Santorum or Paul - bho will probably get a 2nd term
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    Quote Originally Posted by Headly1984 View Post
    how many people here live in a gated community - ?

    if a young man is walking late at night by himself, a member of the private community will more times than not ask, who are you here to visit - everyone knows everyone - it is a private community - if a 6'3 guy is asked where you going and then puts his hood up and walks away - what does that body language say - Fuck you ? and who can defend a thug uniform ? hoodie up, baggie pants and white t-shirt - generic thug wear - now chic in honor of a punk kid who wanted trouble
    I don't think anyone is defending "thug wear". I'm all for shooting anyone who has the waistline of their pants sagged down below their knees, especially with a belt. Not with a real gun, mind you...But with a pellet gun for sure! Right in the ass! May break the skin, may not. But it damn sure will get their attention!

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    As George Zimmerman's supporters work to stem the rising tide of public outrage aimed at the neighborhood watchman who shot and killed Florida teenager Trayvon Martin last month, a new picture of the victim—culled from the 17-year-old's Facebook and Twitter accounts and witness testimony—has emerged.

    "With a single punch," the Orlando Sentinel, citing police sources, reported Monday, "Trayvon Martin decked the Neighborhood Watch volunteer ... climbed on top of [him] and slammed his head into the sidewalk several times, leaving him bloody and battered."

    "That is the account Zimmerman gave police," the paper said, "and much of it has been corroborated by witnesses, authorities say."

    Zimmerman's attorney, Craig Sonner, says that Zimmerman acted in self-defense and is not a racist as some have portrayed him.

    "I think we need to let the investigation come forward and let all the facts in this case come out," Sonner said on the "Today" show. "I think it's going to tell a different story than the way it's been related and portrayed in the media."
    I think much of the problem is the media is unprofessional and is using license to infer a reality that doesn't exist or has not yet been proven. The danger of this is it stirs people up. We are no longer in a world with professional journalists who rigidly follow the Associated Press Handbook and remain neutral and only report the facts. We have propaganda channels and it seems there is an agenda to manipulate the masses through what it portrays. Such a media machine becomes useful when you have certain groups trying to cease power. Interesting we went from over 50 media companies in the early 1980's to only about five now. The big banks own the corporations and the corporations own the media and politicians. So when we see something like this and people react emotionally to it the question we have to ask ourselves is this just for ratings or to fill news time or is there an agenda behind all this? If so who benefits?

    We are in a situation where those in power are not that popular with the public. The latest laws passed to intimidate people from protesting shows the fear of the public these people actually have. Their biggest nightmare would be a unified population organized to not only throw these people out of power but throw them in jail or worse. So desperate people in power do whatever they can do to divide the population. They will try and start race wars, class wars, plot the left against the right and so forth. Antagonize the public into fighting each other and if they can do that, we are less of the threat and they might even get more power out of the situation.

  8. 2 users say thank you to Nitro Express for this KICKASS post:

    ashstralia (03-27-2012),ELVIS (03-27-2012)


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    Quote Originally Posted by ELVIS View Post
    Is that what he was doing ??
    Well, so far that's the consensus. but we don't know for sure. Right now I say Zimmerman should be arrested. but as more story comes out I'm not sure. His 1 huge fault was following after told not to. The shooting may have been justified if this kid was kicking his ass in, but how did it get to that point? He wouldn't have had his ass kicked in if he had followed police instructions.

    Stand your ground does not mean chase down & start an incident to give you ground to stand. I'd have kicked his ass too if some weird unknown guy was coming after me while I was walking home. Perhaps Trayvon was standing his ground? What about Trayvons ground?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    It's pretty funny that we're on a Van Halen board, and people are insinuating that maybe a kid deserved to die because he might have smoked pot and had a problem with some Barney Fife-vigilante asshole following him...

    But I guess "Stand Your Ground" only counts if you have a gun....
    Don't you dare make fun of Barney Fife on this board, dammit!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Headly1984 View Post
    either way - the world has Iran with the bomb and North Korea is launching a long range missile than can deliver a nuke to your door
    Who told you that?

    Neither of those things is even remotely true.

    This harks back to Nitro's post, people are manipulating the news for their own ends and it's dangerous.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    Who told you that?

    Neither of those things is even remotely true.

    This harks back to Nitro's post, people are manipulating the news for their own ends and it's dangerous.
    You beat me to it...

    Complete propaganda...
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    You know it stinks of bullshit when thse turds show up...




    Trayvon Martin was suspended from school for having a 'burglary tool' and women's jewellery in his backpack


    Link!




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    Is that how you spell jewelry in Seshland ??

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    School Report: Trayvon Martin Found with 'Jewelry and Burglary Tool'

    Recently divulged information about Trayvon Martin's checkered academic history has added a new dimension to the very public discussion about the deceased teenager's month-old shooting.

    As it turns out, Martin was suspended a number of times from Krop Senior High School in Miami Gardens for infractions ranging from tardiness and truancy up to possession of marijuana and a screwdriver that the school's security staff described as a "burglary tool."

    The troubling incidents date back to October 2011, when Martin was allegedly caught with a horde of women's jewelry and the aforementioned screwdriver, according the Miami Herald. According to a report issued by Trayvon's school district, on October 21, security camera footage showed Trayvon Martin and two other students writing "W.T.F." on a hallway locker. A security guard saw the footage, detained Trayvon and searched his bag for the offending marker. In the process of the search, the guard uncovered 12 pieces of women's jewelry, a watch and the screwdriver.

    Trayvon claimed at the time that an unnamed friend furnished him with the jewelry and temporarily avoided disciplinary action -- only to be subsequently suspended for the graffiti.

    School police impounded the jewelry and sent photographs of the items to local police, according the district's own report. Martin was then suspended, warned and dismissed.

    The Martin family's attorney confirmed that Trayvon had been suspended for graffiti, but insisted that the the family knew nothing about the jewelry or alleged "burglary tool" mentioned in the school district's report. Both the Martin family and their attorney suggested that the report about Trayvon's disciplinary history was disingenuous and may even have been intended to "demonize" the deceased youth.



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    I am Treyvon Martin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    It's pretty funny that we're on a Van Halen board, and people are insinuating that maybe a kid deserved to die because he might have smoked pot and had a problem with some Barney Fife-vigilante asshole following him...

    But I guess "Stand Your Ground" only counts if you have a gun....

    The assholes reposting the fake Martin photos from Stormfront are helpful, too.
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    If Martin was a "thug" why did HE call 911?

    http://soundcloud.com/the-mokelly-ra...o-acknowledges

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    Quote Originally Posted by jhale667 View Post
    If Martin was a "thug" why did HE call 911?

    http://soundcloud.com/the-mokelly-ra...o-acknowledges
    That is pretty much a presumption there, friend. I'm unsure how merely dialing 911 makes him a thug or not. For instance, exactly when was the call placed, before, during or after the time he was shot?
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    Quote Originally Posted by chefcraig View Post
    That is pretty much a presumption there, friend. I'm unsure how merely dialing 911 makes him a thug or not. For instance, exactly when was the call placed, before, during or after the time he was shot?
    Doubtful it was after. The question being, do most people in the process of "suspicious" activity call 911? "Uh, yeah - I'm casing this place, and there's this weird dude following me..." not gonna happen. Clearly the kid was afraid based on the conversation with his girlfriend and calling 911. The bigger question remains - since all the 911 calls were apparently common knowledge - why is it THIS one (a seemingly important piece of evidence) only surfaced when the Feds started investigating if there WASN'T an attempt to cover something up?

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    Dude, you're trying to make it sound like this Zimmerman idiot saw this black kid skipping down the street eating Skittles, and Zimmerman suddenly went into Ted Nugent mode, stalked the prey and killed it...

    If you wanna believe that, go right ahead...



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    Quote Originally Posted by Headly1984 View Post
    Records show Zimmerman, 28, called the cops 46 times between January 2011 and Feb. 26.

    Many of the calls appear related to his crime-watch volunteer role. The most frequent reason for his calls — nine times — was to report a suspicious person, according to Sanford Police Department records released last week.

    over a 14 month period - he called 9 times about a suspicious person - whoo.... bad man ...
    Wow! Well that justifies everything, doesn't it?

    I had no idea that you can call 9-1-1 whenever McDonalds fucks up your order at the drive-thru or to check-in for your neighborhood watch shift.
    I was always led to believe that 9-1-1 was an emergency number....what the hell was I thinking?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhale667 View Post
    Doubtful it was after. The question being, do most people in the process of "suspicious" activity call 911? "Uh, yeah - I'm casing this place, and there's this weird dude following me..." not gonna happen. Clearly the kid was afraid based on the conversation with his girlfriend and calling 911. The bigger question remains - since all the 911 calls were apparently common knowledge - why is it THIS one (a seemingly important piece of evidence) only surfaced when the Feds started investigating if there WASN'T an attempt to cover something up?
    Who knows anything in this case? The main problem in the whole deal has been the absurd rush to judgement taking place here, along with what could be a general amount of potentially misplaced outrage on both sides before all of the details have come to light. I'm not about to form an opinion on any of it until the truth about what took place comes out, if in fact it ever does. At this point, you have the usual muckraking, self-appointed guardians of society jumping into the frame, making speeches and pretty much clouding the water rather than revealing any insight, other than their own by now predictable agendas. As a result, you have people dedicating their assumptions and opinions not on the facts, but on every 15-30 second soundbite that rears it's ugly head in an unending stream of misinformation.

    Seriously, if you are a rational, even semi-lucid adult, who needs this shit?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ELVIS View Post
    Dude, you're trying to make it sound like this Zimmerman idiot saw this black kid skipping down the street eating Skittles, and Zimmerman suddenly went into Ted Nugent mode, stalked the prey and killed it...

    If you wanna believe that, go right ahead...



    Is that like how you want to believe the Neighborhood watch guy was justifiable in fatally shooting the kid who punched him for yelling a racial slur at him?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jhale667 View Post
    Is that like how you want to believe the Neighborhood watch guy was justifiable in fatally shooting the kid who punched him for yelling a racial slur at him?
    I never said that, Zimmerman was wrong for doing that, whether he gets away with it or not...

    I sure as hell wouldn't shoot someone because they kicked my ass...

    But look, this is obviously a fucking stupid ass hispanic who decided to shoot some black guy in Miami...happens every fucking day...

    Neither one is innocent...


    Last edited by ELVIS; 03-27-2012 at 10:55 AM.

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    Personally, I'm offended that these dumbasses are calling this spic a cracker...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ELVIS View Post
    But look, this is obviously a fucking stupid ass hispanic who decided to shoot some black guy in Miami...happens every fucking day...
    Not quite. Sanford, a suburb of Orlando, is north of Miami by roughly 250 miles, as the crow flies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chefcraig View Post
    Who knows anything in this case? The main problem in the whole deal has been the absurd rush to judgement taking place here, along with what could be a general amount of potentially misplaced outrage on both sides before all of the details have come to light. I'm not about to form an opinion on any of it until the truth about what took place comes out, if in fact it ever does. At this point, you have the usual muckraking, self-appointed guardians of society jumping into the frame, making speeches and pretty much clouding the water rather than revealing any insight, other than their own by now predictable agendas. As a result, you have people dedicating their assumptions and opinions not on the facts, but on every 15-30 second soundbite that rears it's ugly head in an unending stream of misinformation.

    Seriously, if you are a rational, even semi-lucid adult, who needs this shit?

    Dude, if you're a rational, even semi-lucid adult, the police letting Zimmerman go without collecting any evidence after a fatal shooting - even if it is presumed to be self-defense - is suspect, bottom line. The fact that the kid had ID and a cell-phone on him and yet was still kept as a John Doe for days is also suspect (the cops reportedly didn't even bother calling the last few numbers dialed on the phone). Racial component aside (this is seemingly off-brown-on-black crime anyway), the investigation was botched - had there been no media attention, there may not have even been an investigation. It stinks.

    You're a Florida resident - is the Sanford P.D.'s reputation as bad as reported?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hambon4lif View Post
    I was always led to believe that 9-1-1 was an emergency number....what the hell was I thinking?
    Hell yeah!!

    "Do dis be 911?

    Da dalla stoh bees out of my tampons, so's I goes to da bitch at the countah and slips on da flow she bees moppin' and now I don't bees feelin' my foots and legs!

    Call da POPO!!!"




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    Quote Originally Posted by chefcraig View Post
    Not quite. Sanford, a suburb of Orlando, is north of Miami by roughly 250 miles, as the crow flies.
    Ahh...same thing...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ELVIS View Post
    Neither one is innocent...


    How do you figure that, if Martin was indeed merely walking home minding his own business?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jhale667 View Post
    How do you figure that, if Martin was indeed merely walking home minding his own business?
    First of all, he didn't live there...

    Secondly, he must have done something the communist watch guy didn't like...

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    Quote Originally Posted by jhale667 View Post
    You're a Florida resident - is the Sanford P.D.'s reputation as bad as reported?
    I know a bit about the place...

    It's a fucking pill infested college town with strip clubs on every corner...

    The cops probably suck...

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    Quote Originally Posted by jhale667 View Post
    Dude, if you're a rational, even semi-lucid adult, the police letting Zimmerman go without collecting any evidence after a fatal shooting - even if it is presumed to be self-defense - is suspect, bottom line. The fact that the kid had ID and a cell-phone on him and yet was still kept as a John Doe for days is also suspect (the cops reportedly didn't even bother calling the last few numbers dialed on the phone). Racial component aside (this is seemingly off-brown-on-black crime anyway), the investigation was botched - had there been no media attention, there may not have even been an investigation. It stinks.

    You're a Florida resident - is the Sanford P.D.'s reputation as bad as reported?
    OK, the investigation (or more properly, the lack of one) is yet another indictment of the overall insipid nature of policing and politics that take precedent over just about everything else in this state, next to greed and obnoxious, unconscionably awful behavior. Hardly what you'd call news in a place where corruption is the norm, not an anomaly. (I'm keenly aware that in light of the kid's death, this sounds considerably heartless. Having lived here for over 4 decades, one tends to lose much of one's compassion, let alone sympathy for one's fellow residents. Hell, consider yourself lucky if you know the names of any of your neighbors, let alone the guy that lives next door.)

    Am I jaded? That depends on your personal point of view. To me, I'm being a realist. The case has been a giant cluster-fuck since the beginning, yet no amount of moral outrage (that just happens to be based not on facts but on assumptions gathered by the occasional news-break) is going to change that. The kid is dead, and isn't coming back. With the media and boneheads like Al "Sharp-As-A-Marble" and Jesse "Blaxploitation" encouraging grieving people to scream for justice or better yet, create it outside of the law is tantamount to anarchy.

    I just find it odd that while no one has ever been able to exactly pin down just what it is that Jackson and Sharpton do for a paycheck, they are always capable of affording to hop on a plane in order to make their usual speeches and rabble-rousing nonsense, acting as advocates for what allegedly passes for modern black morality. Having these nitwits advise anyone on what to think and how to behave makes about as much sense as having a vegetarian tell someone that likes steak or raises cattle for a living to give up meat, sell the ranch and start eating granola, because it's morally correct or justified.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ELVIS View Post
    First of all, he didn't live there...

    Secondly, he must have done something the communist watch guy didn't like...

    He was staying there with family members, close enough... And yeah, he was apparently guilty of walking while black.

    Quote Originally Posted by chefcraig View Post
    I just find it odd that while no one has ever been able to exactly pin down just what it is that Jackson and Sharpton do for a paycheck, they are always capable of affording to hop on a plane in order to make their usual speeches and rabble-rousing nonsense, acting as advocates for what allegedly passes for modern black morality. Having these nitwits advise anyone on what to think and how to behave makes about as much sense as having a vegetarian tell someone that likes steak or raises cattle for a living to give up meat, sell the ranch and start eating granola, because it's morally correct or justified.

    No disagreement there, I don't think Sharpton and Jackson should be anywhere near this case...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ELVIS View Post
    I know a bit about the place...

    It's a fucking pill infested college town with strip clubs on every corner...
    That doesn't sound so bad
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhale667 View Post
    No disagreement there, I don't think Sharpton and Jackson should be anywhere near this case...
    It really is mystifying. These guys arrive out of nowhere to appear at some race-related hot-spot, make a series of highly combustible comments, then slither back under whatever slime-encrusted rock they have been hiding out beneath until the next occasion comes along. About the only thing you can clearly come away with when these two imbeciles show up is that the facts about whatever they are talking about are nebulous as hell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chefcraig View Post
    It really is mystifying. These guys arrive out of nowhere to appear at some race-related hot-spot, make a series of highly combustible comments, then slither back under whatever slime-encrusted rock they have been hiding out beneath until the next occasion comes along. About the only thing you can clearly come away with when these two imbeciles show up is that the facts about whatever they are talking about are nebulous as hell.
    Sharpton should stick to being a host/commentator on MSNBC and stay far away from incidents like these. He'll never live down the Tawana Brawley thing IMO, and him being around makes things seem more questionable. He's not helping, even if he thinks he is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jhale667 View Post
    He'll never live down the Tawana Brawley thing IMO, and him being around makes things seem more questionable. He's not helping, even if he thinks he is.
    What was that Dave Roth line about "selective amnesia?" It would appear that Sharpton has made a career upon his own (and the general public's) engagement of the device.

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    Let's all kinda step back and look at this situation with a little perception and reality. Doesn't matter if there was a racial slur called out. The facts remain that if you as a person decide to confront the other person for whatever reason, you better be damn prepared for what you may get entangled in. I have to ask, would this have even made the news past the very local area, if the black teen would have killed the white/Hispanic guy, i don't think so. You surely wouldn't have seen the usual suspects that crawl out from under the rocks that do nothing more than build up more tension and hatred. You really wouldn't have seen any president take the kind of stand that Obama has taken on this matter as well.

    The facts remain that black on black crime is rampant in neighborhoods across this country and none of that makes national headlines like this. Whatever the outcome of this situation turns to be, the facts remains that a person lost their life over a miscalculated action that happened between to people. As unfortunate as that is, everyone must take responsibility for their own actions and not be so fast to pass judgement on either of the two men involved, and really understand this was a human on human situation, nothing more.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chefcraig View Post
    What was that Dave Roth line about "selective amnesia?" It would appear that Sharpton has made a career upon his own (and the general public's) engagement of the device.

    He's actually done a lot of good over the years since then and tried to rehabilitate his reputation, think he even worked with Newtered on some bipartisan project pre-election time, but I've never forgotten him doing what amounted to shouting "fire" in a crowded theater as far as race-relations go. Sure, he was fooled like everyone else at the time, but he kind of became the poster child for false accusations of that type. Pretty doubtful there's any falsehoods being perpetrated by the Martin family, but if it were me I wouldn't want him anywhere near it.

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