Syria: A Line in the Sand

[Nickdfresh]

Has Syria crossed the line with Houla massacre?
Published On Sat Jun 02 2012


People gather at a mass burial for the victims purportedly killed during an artillery barrage from Syrian forces in Houla in this handout image dated May 26. UN observers in Syria have confirmed that artillery and tank shells were fired at a residential area of Houla, Syria, where at least 108 people, including many children, were killed.


REUTERS
By Tony Burman Special to the Star

Will the horror of Houla be the tipping point in Syria’s deepening civil war? Like the massacre in Srebrenica in 1995 or the horrendous shelling of the Sarajevo market in 1994, will the mass killing near the town of Houla of at least 108 Syrian villagers, including 34 women and 49 children, be the breaking point for the world? Has the heinous Syrian regime finally crossed the line?

So far, the early signs are not good. The helplessness of the international community in the face of this latest outrage has been in full display. Efforts by the UN’s special envoy Kofi Annan are in disarray. Russia continues to favour its Syrian ally, as do Iran and China. A handful of Western governments, including Canada’s, expelled their Syrian diplomats but they have done little else. Meanwhile, the killing continues.

But the dangers ahead are not lost on anyone, and that may eventually break the impasse. The Syrian uprising has become the longest and bloodiest of all the insurrections throughout the Arab world in the past 18 months. With nearly 12,000 lives already lost, the courage of the Syrian people in the face of this has been breathtaking. But, apart from its poignancy, it is a conflict with enormous potential to destabilize the region and to disrupt the international order. Also, unless resolved, it is certain to get worse.

The massacre at Houla may be repeated again and again. What is important here is the number of eyewitnesses. All signs point to a civilian pro-government militia that witnesses say entered people’s homes in army fatigues and either cut their throats or shot them in the head.

In terms of international intervention, there is no immediate military option. Russia and China would veto any efforts by the UN to initiate the same type of intervention which occurred in Libya. Also, neither the Americans nor NATO have the stomach for another Middle East adventure. The best hope appears to be diplomacy and increased sanctions against the Syrian regime.

The key player is Russia, Syria’s most important ally. Russia fears what may follow president Bashar al-Assad if he is toppled is chaos and sectarian violence, which could threaten Russia’s strategic interests and naval foothold. But there are signs now that even Vladimir Putin may be recognizing that the time for a deal may be close.

The Americans and Russians are discussing what has been called the “Yemenskii variant” as a way of transitioning Syria to a post-Assad model. It calls for something similar to the Saudi-backed plan for Yemen which got rid of dictator Ali Abdullah Saleh but kept family and key supporters initially in place. They would form part of the transitional administration before the holding of free elections. This idea will apparently be on the agenda at next month’s summit between Putin and U.S. president Barack Obama.

The tragedy for the Syrian people in all of this is that, for the world’s key governments, the Syrian conflict is not only a human story about horrors such as Houla. Increasingly, it is an unpredictable proxy war among competing world powers with very different strategic goals.

• Iran, which was the biggest loser in the “Arab Spring” because of its diminished influence, sees its long-held support of the Assad regime as a way of maintaining power over a key Arab country.

• Russia, which in the Soviet era had Middle Eastern influence over Egypt, Iraq and Syria, now has only Damascus in its corner, and even that is threatened.

• China, with massive economic interests in Iran, is actively supporting Syria’s Assad regime as a way of courting favour with Tehran.

• And the United States is not only in competition with these other global powers but it too is trying to find its way in a new Middle East where all rules are being rewritten.

Meanwhile, Syria’s neighbours are watching unfolding events in that country with dread. The governments in Lebanon, Jordan and Iraq are weak and unstable. The fear of a looming Sunni-Shiite sectarian war is often voiced. The euphoria of political liberation is increasingly clashing with ancient ethnic hatreds.

This Syrian tragedy has inflicted profound pain on the Syrian people. But as it careens further out of control, the crisis risks spilling beyond Syria’s borders and threatening the entire region, and beyond.

Let us hope that this prospect will motivate the world’s global powers to get this settled before it is too late.

Tony Burman, former head of Al Jazeera English and CBC News, teaches journalism at Ryerson University. tony.burman@gmail.com

The Toronto Star

[Nitro Express]

Well Syria was on the list. What they didn't plan on was Russia and China getting involved and it taking more than five years. Shows what a cocky bunch of mother fuckers the neocons were.

[Nitro Express]

Now here's what some of the locals have to say about it.

[FORD]

The Daily Show with Jon StewartGet More: Daily Show Full Episodes,Political Humor & Satire Blog,The Daily Show on Facebook

[Nickdfresh]

Now here's what some of the locals have to say about it.

Complete bullshit "newspeak" propaganda at the behest of the Syrian gov't...

[Nitro Express]

Could be.

[FORD]

Well.... SyrianBabe is correct that "Al Qaeda" is a wholly owned subsidiary of BCE/CIA. But that doesn't mean Assad isn't a flaming hemorrhoid.

[Nitro Express]

I remember when I was a little kid in the 70's my babysitter had a Vietnam vet friend who was in a wheel chair. In a way he was like Sargeant Dan in Forrest Gump. He was a bit crazed from the war and probably some drugs. He went on about how the CIA dealed in drugs in the golden triangle and what criminals they were. I thought he was just some crazy hippie and he was a bit creepy but I liked going over to his place because he would let me play his electric guitar. It was your typical 70's hangout and behind the couch he had a big sheet with Zig Zag man with a tie dyed border. Hindsight being 20/20 I think my babysitter was buying pot from the dude.

[Nickdfresh]

It's (1st) Lieutenant Dan!

[Nickdfresh]

Well.... SyrianBabe is correct that "Al Qaeda" is a wholly owned subsidiary of BCE/CIA. But that doesn't mean Assad isn't a flaming hemorrhoid.

[ELVIS]

I remember when I was a little kid in the 70's my babysitter had a Vietnam vet friend who was in a wheel chair. In a way he was like Sargeant Dan in Forrest Gump. He was a bit crazed from the war and probably some drugs. He went on about how the CIA dealed in drugs in the golden triangle and what criminals they were. I thought he was just some crazy hippie and he was a bit creepy but I liked going over to his place because he would let me play his electric guitar. It was your typical 70's hangout and behind the couch he had a big sheet with Zig Zag man with a tie dyed border. Hindsight being 20/20 I think my babysitter was buying pot from the dude.

So, what's the moral of the story ?.

[sadaist]

So, what's the moral of the story ?.

It was good to be a kid in the 70's.

[sadaist]

I don't understand why we were so quick to go into Libya but not Syria. And what about all the African nations in the last 15 years that have been slaughtering their people? Where was the outrage & US intervention there? We sure are picky about when we want to stand up & act righteous.

[Nitro Express]

It was good to be a kid in the 70's.

It was good to be a kid in the 70's. It was the sweet spot. The pendulum has swung far enough out of the prudish 50's but hadn't gone completely into insaneville yet. It was also great to be a teenager in the 80's. Our generation really hit a home run there. We enjoyed our youth before they started to smother us and say no you can't and when the economy was still good. I had my own car as a teen and I bought it with my own money and got away from home right when I graduated from high school. What do the kids today own and many just bum off of mom and dad for years. They have this defeatist attitude. We wanted to own our own stuff and get out on our own and couldn't wait to do it.

[Nitro Express]

I don't understand why we were so quick to go into Libya but not Syria. And what about all the African nations in the last 15 years that have been slaughtering their people? Where was the outrage & US intervention there? We sure are picky about when we want to stand up & act righteous.

Follow the money Sadist. What does Libya have that Syria doesn't? Hint: It's in the ground and it burns.

[sadaist]

Hint: It's in the ground and it burns.

My old wedding ring that I buried?

[sadaist]

Follow the money Sadist. What does Libya have that Syria doesn't? Hint: It's in the ground and it burns.

The stupid thing about that is it's soooo fucking obvious. Does our government really think we are that stupid? I mean it's the point where it's so obvious that it can't be the real reason.

[Nitro Express]

The stupid thing about that is it's soooo fucking obvious. Does our government really think we are that stupid? I mean it's the point where it's so obvious that it can't be the real reason.

Look at it from their point of view. The people in Washington and the people on Wall Street have been screwing us for a very long time. What happens is they get used to it being so easy, they get cocky, and they don't see the left hook coming that knocks them on their ass. Look at established politicians who lost in the primaries. They were shocked. They didn't see it coming. A lot of people in the establishment are so far into their own isolated situation they don't see reality.

Some of the smarter ones see it.



It's no different than ancient Rome where they bought off the public with food and entertainment and kept them occupied with that while they stole the treasury for themselves and continued to raise taxes. The weapon of mass destruction in our modern times has been the couch and the television set.

[sadaist]

This is why governments fear the Internet so much and the free sharing of information, knowledge & ideas.

[Nitro Express]

This is why governments fear the Internet so much and the free sharing of information, knowledge & ideas.

Yup. The internet was developed for the military and was there but like always some young entrepreneur developed a way to search the web. Before you had to know what to type in to find what you were looking for and it really made the net pretty much useless.

The control freaks didn't see it coming. They were knocking themselves out buying up the traditional media and trying to control that.

Now people have it and they don't want to give it up and the government is trying to use every excuse to control it. Of course they use the same excuses. Security. They say they care about us and they want to keep us safe all at the same time the banks are stealing billions from us and the government that cares about us does nothing. We even can point out in detail who stole the money but the government that cares so much about us does nothing. They might toss some unemployment benefits and some welfare trinkets our way but that's about it. It like them stealing the candy and then giving us the wrapper off of it.

Once people have something and enjoy it, it's very hard to take away. People have enjoyed free uncensored internet with search capability for almost two decades. It's hard to just come in and say we are going to take some of it away without people throwing a tizzy.

The Mormon church even started telling it's members to stay off the internet because there was porn on it. The real reason was stuff in the church history that the church was able to buy up, hide and suppress was starting to surface on the internet again. Black and white proof that the church has systematically changed it's history over the years and proof Joseph Smith mistranslated some Egyptian artifacts and that made a whole book of Mormon scripture obviously a fraud. So they ran a huge campaign to try and get the members off the internet because members were leaving the church because of it. They yelled and the screamed and the members still used the internet. The next move was to exploit the internet themselves so they spend a fortune running ads on YouTube and other popular websites. It was like watching some little creep trying to hold a breaking dam back and then it breaks and they go with the flood.

[Nickdfresh]

I don't understand why we were so quick to go into Libya but not Syria. And what about all the African nations in the last 15 years that have been slaughtering their people? Where was the outrage & US intervention there? We sure are picky about when we want to stand up & act righteous.

We had lots of NATO airbases in range and former Euro colonial powers with a vested interest in Libya. Unfortunately, Syria is far more isolated and difficult to get at without significant Arab support...

[Hardrock69]

GODDAMMIT!

THIS CANNOT GO ON!!!

[Hardrock69]

I had a friend in L.A. I used to buy pot from.....he was an ex-POW from the Vientnam conflict and he had a lot of stories to tell.....

Wish I knew what happened to him. He was a VERY cool guy....

[ELVIS]

It was good to be a kid in the 70's.

It was a joke from a faux liberal perspective...

[Nickdfresh]

C.I.A. Said to Aid in Steering Arms to Syrian Opposition
By ERIC SCHMITT
Published: June 21, 2012

WASHINGTON — A small number of C.I.A. officers are operating secretly in southern Turkey, helping allies decide which Syrian opposition fighters across the border will receive arms to fight the Syrian government, according to American officials and Arab intelligence officers.
Related

The weapons, including automatic rifles, rocket-propelled grenades, ammunition and some antitank weapons, are being funneled mostly across the Turkish border by way of a shadowy network of intermediaries including Syria’s Muslim Brotherhood and paid for by Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar, the officials said.

The C.I.A. officers have been in southern Turkey for several weeks, in part to help keep weapons out of the hands of fighters allied with Al Qaeda or other terrorist groups, one senior American official said. The Obama administration has said it is not providing arms to the rebels, but it has also acknowledged that Syria’s neighbors would do so.

The clandestine intelligence-gathering effort is the most detailed known instance of the limited American support for the military campaign against the Syrian government. It is also part of Washington’s attempt to increase the pressure on President Bashar al-Assad of Syria, who has recently escalated his government’s deadly crackdown on civilians and the militias battling his rule. With Russia blocking more aggressive steps against the Assad government, the United States and its allies have instead turned to diplomacy and aiding allied efforts to arm the rebels to force Mr. Assad from power.

By helping to vet rebel groups, American intelligence operatives in Turkey hope to learn more about a growing, changing opposition network inside of Syria and to establish new ties. “C.I.A. officers are there and they are trying to make new sources and recruit people,” said one Arab intelligence official who is briefed regularly by American counterparts.

American officials and retired C.I.A. officials said the administration was also weighing additional assistance to rebels, like providing satellite imagery and other detailed intelligence on Syrian troop locations and movements. The administration is also considering whether to help the opposition set up a rudimentary intelligence service. But no decisions have been made on those measures or even more aggressive steps, like sending C.I.A. officers into Syria itself, they said.

The struggle inside Syria has the potential to intensify significantly in coming months as powerful new weapons are flowing to both the Syrian government and opposition fighters. President Obama and his top aides are seeking to pressure Russia to curb arms shipments like attack helicopters to Syria, its main ally in the Middle East.

“We’d like to see arms sales to the Assad regime come to an end, because we believe they’ve demonstrated that they will only use their military against their own civilian population,” Benjamin J. Rhodes, deputy national security adviser for strategic communications, said after Mr. Obama and his Russian counterpart, Vladimir V. Putin, met in Mexico on Monday.

Spokesmen for the White House, State Department and C.I.A. would not comment on any intelligence operations supporting the Syrian rebels, some details of which were reported last week by The Wall Street Journal.

Until now, the public face of the administration’s Syria policy has largely been diplomacy and humanitarian aid.

The State Department said Wednesday that Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton would meet with her Russian counterpart, Sergey V. Lavrov, on the sidelines of a meeting of Asia-Pacific foreign ministers in St. Petersburg, Russia, next Thursday. The private talks are likely to focus, at least in part, on the crisis in Syria.

The State Department has authorized $15 million in nonlethal aid, like medical supplies and communications equipment, to civilian opposition groups in Syria.

The Pentagon continues to fine-tune a range of military options, after a request from Mr. Obama in early March for such contingency planning. Gen. Martin E. Dempsey, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told senators at that time that the options under review included humanitarian airlifts, aerial surveillance of the Syrian military, and the establishment of a no-fly zone.

The military has also drawn up plans for how coalition troops would secure Syria’s sizable stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons if an all-out civil war threatened their security.

But senior administration officials have underscored in recent days that they are not actively considering military options. “Anything at this point vis-à-vis Syria would be hypothetical in the extreme,” General Dempsey told reporters this month.

What has changed since March is an influx of weapons and ammunition to the rebels. The increasingly fierce air and artillery assaults by the government are intended to counter improved coordination, tactics and weaponry among the opposition forces, according to members of the Syrian National Council and other activists.

Last month, these activists said, Turkish Army vehicles delivered antitank weaponry to the border, where it was then smuggled into Syria. Turkey has repeatedly denied it was extending anything other than humanitarian aid to the opposition, mostly via refugee camps near the border. The United States, these activists said, was consulted about these weapons transfers.

American military analysts offered mixed opinions on whether these arms have offset the advantages held by the militarily superior Syrian Army. “The rebels are starting to crack the code on how to take out tanks,” said Joseph Holliday, a former United States Army intelligence officer in Afghanistan who is now a researcher tracking the Free Syrian Army for the Institute for the Study of War in Washington.

But a senior American officer who receives classified intelligence reports from the region, compared the rebels’ arms to “peashooters” against the government’s heavy weaponry and attack helicopters.

The Syrian National Council, the main opposition group in exile, has recently begun trying to organize the scattered, localized units that all fight under the name of the Free Syrian Army into a more cohesive force.

About 10 military coordinating councils in provinces across the country are now sharing tactics and other information. The city of Homs is the notable exception. It lacks such a council because the three main military groups in the city do not get along, national council officials said.

Jeffrey White, a defense analyst at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy who tracks videos and announcements from self-described rebel battalions, said there were now about 100 rebel formations, up from roughly 70 two months ago, ranging in size from a handful of fighters to a couple of hundred combatants.

“When the regime wants to go someplace and puts the right package of forces together, it can do it,” Mr. White said. “But the opposition is raising the cost of those kinds of operations.”

Neil MacFarquhar contributed reporting from Beirut, Lebanon. Souad Mekhennet also contributed reporting.

NYTimes.com

[Nickdfresh]

Three key figures reported dead amid mass troop defections and rumour of flight to Russia of Bashar al-Assad wife

Ian Black and Martin Chulov
guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 18 July 2012 16.23 EDT

Hassan Turkmani, Bashar Assad
Bashar al-Assad, centre, with Hassan Turkmani, right, in 2005. Turkmani died in the bomb blast on 18 July along with Assef Shawkat, Assad’s brother-in-law, and Dawoud Rajha, defence minister. Photograph: Sana/AP

Syria's uprising entered uncharted territory after rebels fighting the regime of Bashar al-Assad killed three of his top security chiefs in a devastating bomb attack in the heart of Damascus – the single worst loss for the government in 16 months of increasingly bloody struggle.

Mass defections of soldiers and a rampage by pro-regime militiamen were reported in the capital amid a swirl of rumours, including one that Assad's wife, Asma, had fled to Russia and another that troops were being issued with gas masks, raising fears of the use of chemical weapons.

The president's whereabouts was also unclear, with one unconfirmed report that he had been wounded and left Damascus for Latakia on the coast.

Reports from Damascus on Wednesday described loud explosions, gunfire in the streets, attack helicopters firing and clouds of smoke over residential areas.

Earlier, Syrian state TV confirmed the deaths of Assef Shawkat, Assad's brother-in-law and the deputy head of the armed forces, and his closest security adviser, as well as Dawoud Rajha, the minister of defence and the regime's most senior Christian figure. Hassan Turkmani, his crisis management chief, was also killed.
...

Cont'd at TheGuardian.co.uk



Syria’s nerve agents
By Editorial Board, Wednesday, July 18, 6:16 PM

THE BOMB BLAST in Damascus on Wednesday blew a hole in the regime of Bashar al-Assad and could lead to the government’s loss of control over territory. That, in turn, could leave his chemical weapons vulnerable.

Syria holds one of the largest stockpiles of chemical weapons in the Middle East, composed of blister and nerve agents, including sarin, for which it has manufacturing facilities. It is believed to have sought out the deadliest nerve agent ever created, VX. The chemicals have been weaponized in aerial bombs, missile warheads and artillery shells. Details about storage locations are sketchy, and there have been reports of recent transfers, but it was believed the weapons were distributed among 45 sites around the country. Intelligence agencies say that Syria has prepared chemical weapons for use with its Scud and SS-21 missiles.

Even if Mr. Assad is not inclined to use chemical weapons in this civil war, there is a danger that they will be up for grabs as the regime’s power crumbles. One drop of sarin can kill an adult. Thirteen people died and hundreds were injured when the nerve agent was released on Tokyo subway cars in 1995 by the Aum Shinrikyo cult. One can only imagine the terror and uncertainty that would follow the disappearance of sarin shells or warheads from Syria.

Syria never signed the 1993 Chemical Weapons Convention, and it must be assumed that international inspectors would not be welcomed by the Assad government. But if Syria begins to crack up, international intervention may be required on an emergency basis. If carried out while the street fighting rages, such intervention would be dangerous. The planning should be underway. Russia, after so many months of supporting Mr. Assad, ought to see that controlling these weapons is in its interest, too, and join in the planning.

The Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons, located in The Hague, which oversees the treaty and carries out chemical weapons destruction, has no legal mandate for work in Syria, but it does have valuable expertise for inspection and monitoring, and it could get involved if asked by the United Nations. However, an armed force may also be required to secure the weapons, and that will demand careful coordination with the opposition.

Israel understandably sees the chemical weapons and missiles in Syria as a serious threat. But any Israeli intervention could inflame an already deteriorating situation. One reason for the United States and others to begin planning now for what to do with Syria’s chemical weapons is to keep Israel from acting unilaterally. But the larger reason is to head off a nightmare scenario, when an artillery shell filled with sarin goes missing in the middle of a civil war.

© The Washington Post Company

[Dr. Love]

ah fuck it... what's one more war?

[baru911]

Syria’s nerve agents?? Gee, wonder where those came from? Let's see. Ummm, there was this dude in Iraq that used nerve agents on the Kurds and killed 5000 of them in Halabja. Then when the "World's Policeman" was advising they were going to move in on the dude in Iraq all of his nerve agents just disappeared. What other Country has a border with Iraq? Oh, that's right Syrai.

We don't need to move into Syrai. Iran is their ally. Not a good move. However, all bet are off the table if a nerve agent traced back to Syrai goes into/off in Israel. Nothing good comes out of us going into Syrai.

[ELVIS]

Yeah, Syrai sucks...

[FORD]

Oh, now Syria has chemical weapons?

Our resident BlacKKKwater shill is probably correct in referencing the common link to Iraq, but not in the way that he thinks......

It's probably more like the same "intelligence sources", the same media whores, and the same NuttyYahoo puppets, spinning this lie as they did the lies about Iraq.

Yeah Assad's an asshole. So was Hussein. Big fucking deal. NuttyYahoo is the single biggest threat in the middle east. And the BCE business partners, the House of Saud literally financed "Al Qaeda".

We don't need a war with ANYBODY in that fucked up part of the world, but if we needed to be there at all, why not go after the ones who actually are causing the problems? NuttyYahoo in particular is determined to start World War III, as evidenced by every time he tries to blame Iran for any random event that happens anywhere on the goddamned planet.

[Nickdfresh]

Syria has had chemical weapons (and perhaps worse) for decades. There's nothing new here...

[ELVIS]

Exactly...

[Nickdfresh]

But the collapse of the regime is almost imminent, and against a Free Syrian Army that has little in the way of any centralized command structure. This could all be a problem...

[baru911]

Our resident BlacKKKwater shill.

Ford, I don't know you. You don't know me. However, I am asking that you not place references to "the Klan" or "the KKK" when you post things about me. I have ignored it up to this point. I ask this as my family history with the KKK is very different than most liberal assholes who always want to stick up for people harmed by the Klan and know nothing about the pain and suffering the Klan causes. Also, people that just throw around "racist" terms have ZERO FUCKING IDEAS about people on the other side of the computer screen and what TRUE pain the Klan caused to their family.

Both my grandfather and my great grandfather had crosses burnt in their yards by the Klan. For years my family was terrorized by the Klan. I saw the true pain in both of those men's eyes, my grandmother's eyes, and my mother's eyes, and her brothers' and sister's eyes when they relayed their experiences with the Klan to my generation of our family.

To be polite Ford - FUCK OFF and think before you POST.

[chefcraig]

To be polite Ford - FUCK OFF!

In a word, No.

Regardless your own personal history, reporting posts that happen to feature the letters KKK in them because they amount to some sort of insult applicable only to you based upon your family lineage doesn't cut the mustard. Rather than self-consciously looking for insult in threads or posts, here's an idea: Don't. You won't be offended by content you do not read.

And telling folks to fuck off for offering an opinion (let alone a spelling discrepancy based upon sardonic humor) doesn't exactly gather sympathy to your reasoning. The choice is up to you. Either grow a pair, or decide not to participate at all.

[baru911]

In a word, No.

Regardless your own personal history, reporting posts that happen to feature the letters KKK in them because they amount to some sort of insult applicable only to you based upon your family lineage doesn't cut the mustard. Rather than self-consciously looking for insult in threads or posts, here's an idea: Don't. You won't be offended by content you do not read.

And telling folks to fuck off for offering an opinion (let alone a spelling discrepancy based upon sardonic humor) doesn't exactly gather sympathy to your reasoning. The choice is up to you. Either grow a pair, or decide not to participate at all.

Yes, I reported the post. Maybe if your previous generations had been followed, beaten, had crosses burned in their yards, businesses harmed you might see the correlation. That is where my views come from. However, it is very nice that you just gave Ford free rein to continue calling me a member of the Klan. It is all in jest, right? I might go back and forth with others on points but NOT with racist/hate terminology typed within them.

Asking me to grow "a pair" in this context is mind blowing.

[chefcraig]

Yes, I reported the post. Maybe if your previous generations had been followed, beaten, had crosses burned in their yards, businesses harmed you might see the correlation. That is where my views come from. However, it is very nice that you just gave Ford free rein to continue calling me a member of the Klan. It is all in jest, right? I might go back and forth with others on points but NOT with racist/hate terminology typed within them.

Asking me to grow "a pair" in this context is mind blowing.

Ummm...WHAT?

It's disgusting you'd question my lineage, making suppositions about what my family has or has not been through in comparison to yours. As for giving FORD free reign, being new to the site you obviously have no idea of how things work, particularly in the political section known as the Front Line. Essentially, you state your view, hold your ground (be it left or right) and engage in some full-frontal verbal jousting, sometimes in jest, sometimes in unbridled anger. Either way, you do not get your panties in a wad by taking things to an extreme, then referencing your own clan's hardships as if they are somehow more significant than anyone else's.

Screw you and your self-conscious piety. And if the term "grow a pair" seems mind-blowing to you, good.

[jhale667]

Yes, I reported the post. Maybe if your previous generations had been followed, beaten, had crosses burned in their yards, businesses harmed you might see the correlation. That is where my views come from. However, it is very nice that you just gave Ford free rein to continue calling me a member of the Klan. It is all in jest, right? I might go back and forth with others on points but NOT with racist/hate terminology typed within them.

Asking me to grow "a pair" in this context is mind blowing.

Actually no it's not.

I can relate to the previous generations encountering abuse - hell, I've had to deal with Klanbot assholes in my personal life - had you been insulted personally in a racist manner believe me I'd be the first person here to defend you, as a few racist fucktards DO post here, but FORD isn't one of them.

Fact is, Blackwater sucks and you're shilling for them, you should expect the abuse.

[baru911]

Yes, I am new. I think you can tell as I allowing my "panties to get in a wad" over someone using "KKK" or Klan references when they refer to me. Sardonic humor as an excuse? As you have pointed out is all in jest here in the political forums, right? Nothing to get uptight about.

Hey, Ford keep referencing the Klan. It is in jest. It is just humor. How could that cause any harm to anyone?

[baru911]

Actually no it's not.

I can relate to the previous generations encountering abuse - hell, I've had to deal with Klanbot assholes in my personal life - had you been insulted personally in a racist manner believe me I'd be the first person here to defend you, as a few racist fucktards DO post here, but FORD isn't one of them.

Fact is, Blackwater sucks and you're shilling for them, you should expect the abuse.

I'll be more than happy to talk about contractors. Happy to give my views on them. If someone wanted to start a thread. However, I'm not a Blackwater shill. I would consider myself a Triple Canopy shill but nobody seems to hammer them here (very professional organization and it stays under the radar).

BTW, thanks for not typing Blackwater with three k's. I do appreciate that.