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Thread: ObamaCare Death Panel starts

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    ObamaCare Death Panel starts

    How long will it take before Doctors stop follow up visits for seniors on medicare within a months time to avoid the penalties that ObamaCare is enforcing. How long before they tell seniors that at a certain age, they are to old to have a hip replacement or bypass surgery procedure done. ObamaCare is just a flat out bad law.


    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...-readmissions/
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    And if Mittens and Munster steal the election, there won't be any Medicare or Social Security.

    www.voterocky.org
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    Quote Originally Posted by FORD View Post
    And if Mittens and Munster steal the election, there won't be any Medicare or Social Security.

    www.voterocky.org

    I do believe you have the wrong pair that has set out to destroy those programs.

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    Everything will be rationed, MM. That's how they will attempt to save money...

    But it's about revenue, not taking care of people...

    It's sad to see people fall for this bullshit...

    it's like Nitro said recently. Something like People will vote in another Hitler if you promise them a free hotdog...

    It's sad and true...
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    Quote Originally Posted by MUSICMANN View Post
    How long will it take before Doctors stop follow up visits for seniors on medicare within a months time to avoid the penalties that ObamaCare is enforcing. How long before they tell seniors that at a certain age, they are to old to have a hip replacement or bypass surgery procedure done. ObamaCare is just a flat out bad law.


    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...-readmissions/
    So basically this has nothing to do with a fictitious, bullshit "death panel" and you're just speculating and making shit up on the internet based on a slanted Fox Snews article?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELVIS View Post
    Everything will be rationed, MM. That's how they will attempt to save money...

    But it's about revenue, not taking care of people...
    Gee...how unlike the system we have now where people with no health insurance die...

    It's sad to see people fall for this bullshit...
    It's sad for people like you to act as if it weren't this new fangled law everything would be fine der der derrrr....

    it's like Nitro said recently. Something like People will vote in another Hitler if you promise them a free hotdog...

    It's sad and true...
    Yeah, that's just what this is like even though the bill isn't popular...

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    Hahahahaha....

    Dude, the government is not going to take care of you, as much as you want to believe they will...

    F U C K T H E S Y S T E M !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    IT'S CORRUPT !!

    They do not give a fuck about you !!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    Gee...how unlike the system we have now where people with no health insurance die...



    It's sad for people like you to act as if it weren't this new fangled law everything would be fine der der derrrr....



    Yeah, that's just what this is like even though the bill isn't popular...


    Yes, there are, about 26,000 people who do die each yr. from having no health insurance. I still don't think that helping one group out and hurting another, especially seniors who have paid into medicare for so many yrs. should be put in this situation where having to go to the doctor more than once a month will ultimately force those same doctors to cut their care for their patients because it will cost them a penalty under ObamaCare. Making health insurance affordable for all is one thing, but to rob seniors of quality health care after they paid into it to cover others is wrong. This is why i titled this thread Obama's death panel starts. How long will it take for the governing body of unelected overseer's of this law, to justify that a senior that is over a certain age is not worth the money to save vs a much younger uninsured person. This is really the meat and potatoes of ObamaCare. You can't take money from one pocket and put it in someone else's pocket and call it a savings. ObamaCare has already gutted 716 Billion out of medicare and now their gonna place a penalty on hospitals for treating a sick person twice in the same month. This can also be tied into Obama's bad management of the economy and his continuance to expand welfare in this country. When the economy is running the way it should be and people are working, buying health insurance is not a problem. It's those that continue to not want to work and want everything given to them for free that's the problem. I know for myself, my single Blue cross-Blueshield policy, has went up $500.00 a yr. and my brother's family policy has went up $2,400.00 a yr. What happened to health insurance going down under ObamaCare. So Obama raided medicare and jacked up insurance on those that actually pay for insurance, all to pay for those that want to get something for nothing. If you didn't know it, nothing is free. ObamaCare is not the answer and hurts the middleclass more than before.

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    And so your solution is to turn the entire fucking thing over to a bunch of serial killer groupies and Wall Street felons???

    Jesus Christ on a nuclear powered pogo stick, have you learned NOTHING from the last 30 years??

    PRIVATIZATION AND DEREGULATION OF EVERYTHING IS KILLING THIS FUCKING COUNTRY!!

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    We know you think so, but you're delusional...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ELVIS View Post
    We know you think so, but you're delusional...
    You have admitted this yourself, that the profit motive is the worst thing about so-called "health care" in this country, and that it was a big part of your decision to quit the nursing business.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FORD View Post
    You have admitted this yourself, that the profit motive is the worst thing about so-called "health care" in this country, and that it was a big part of your decision to quit the nursing business.

    The reason why health care cost so much is because there's no money to be made in a healthy America. Care should be care, not business. I can use a very good personal example. My 78 yr. old dad has been having heart issue's since he was 56. Had bypass surgery at that time and was told to take an aspirin a day. 15 yrs. later he had to get bypass surgery done again at 71 and when he was 75 a stint . His Doctor put him on Coumidin at that time and about a yr. ago his doctor put him on Prodaxa. Now all three, aspirin ,Coumidin and Prodaxa are blood thinners with the price going up in order. Do you know what the doctor said to my dad when he put him on Prodaxa. It's very expensive but you have great health insurance, so don't worry about it. Now this is one of the top cardiologist's in Baton Rouge who told him that. Nobody wants to die, and for the old, that has short yrs, it becomes very easy to scare them. Obamacare guts the medicare and burdens the middle class. Romney's plan will probably do no better. Health care is really the health business and until you can rain in the pharmaceutical companies that fund the med schools that teach doctors to push pills and overcharge, nothing will actually change.

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    Be glad there is such a thing as health insurance. For anyone.

    150 years ago, the doc would have told your dad he had x amount of days/months/weeks to live. But then, medical knowledge was so primitive even 100 years ago, it is unlikely any doc would have had the education to say even that. Your Dad would have gotten sicker and sicker and then one day he would have dropped dead. At age 60.

    The nutshell is this:

    Until you can reign in the CORPORATIONS, nothing will change. Not just "pharma, insurers, hospitals, etc.".

    This is what Obama has been trying to do. But the CORPORATIONS who own the Republican Party do NOT want to see their profits go away, and have been having a shit-fit trying to shoot down universal healthcare.

    Go ask people in Europe what it is like to get health care. They will reply good/bad/meh.

    But you ask them what it is like not to have healthcare and you will get a blank stare.

    Most countries in Europe have universal healthcare.

    What is so wrong with that? Retardlicans go on about "Death Panels" and how Obamacare is going to hurt our country. But what they are really saying is that Obamacare will help so many people, the rich folks who run the CORPORATIONS will not so easily be able to afford the new Rolls Royce they buy every year. What they are really saying is they want the current system to continue, where there are ALREADY "Death Panels" EVERYWHERE.

    These "Death Panels" are called "Insurance Companies".

    Sure, lotsa peeps could go on about how universal healthcare is not the greatest.

    But what is better? Some healthcare? Or none?

    And the quality of healthcare depends entirely on the quality of life in the country where you are.

    Say you have universal healthcare in Nigeria. Compare it to the universal healthcare in the UK.

    Goes without saying in Nigeria the healthcare system is going to suck fucking ass, because the quality of life sucks fucking ass there as well.

    The Retardlicans scream and cry about universal healthcare, like it is going down the road to communism.

    Communism is a good theory, but it has not once been put into practice in any country on Earth as a governmental system in the past 100 years. It has only been somewhat successful when hippies have implemented it successfully in the late 60s and early 70s in "communes". Hardly a national government.

    Do people want to have a major medical procedure, and then get billed $100,000 by a hospital.....where you have to pay 20% of it?

    Do average joes have 20k laying around for something like that?
    Do people think it right that people should go bankrupt due to medical bills?
    Do people think it right that people who have no insurance are not going to get treatment or the drugs they need to stay alive because they cannot afford them?

    We are supposedly the greatest country on Earth. Why is it that in the UK if I am in a traffic accident I can get health care and I will not owe anyone a dime?

    I would like to be able to say that here in the US.

    This is the 21st-century. We need our healthcare programs to reflect that.

    Last edited by Hardrock69; 08-23-2012 at 07:41 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELVIS View Post
    Hahahahaha....

    Dude, the government is not going to take care of you, as much as you want to believe they will...

    F U C K T H E S Y S T E M !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    IT'S CORRUPT !!

    They do not give a fuck about you !!!!!
    but your jesus does...
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    So does Jesus have the ability to issue executive orders or pass congressional legislation?

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    No, He just heals you...

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    Well, technically (according to many Christians) Jesus is God, so theoretically he should be able to heal everyone on the planet at once.

    But since he does not do this, he must not exist.

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    Yeah, Jesus doesn't exist and "CORPORATIONS" only control the republican party...

    Whatever dude...

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    I think some things shouldn't be "for profit", but at the same time, I don't want our nation's health system to become like our nation's education system, which I'm convinced would happen if the government took control of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELVIS View Post
    Hahahahaha....

    Dude, the government is not going to take care of you, as much as you want to believe they will...

    F U C K T H E S Y S T E M !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    IT'S CORRUPT !!

    They do not give a fuck about you !!!!!
    As opposed to HMO's?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Love View Post
    I think some things shouldn't be "for profit", but at the same time, I don't want our nation's health system to become like our nation's education system, which I'm convinced would happen if the government took control of it.
    Local gov'ts control the edu'macational system the most, along with states...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ELVIS View Post
    Yeah, Jesus doesn't exist and "CORPORATIONS" only control the republican party...
    You're half right...
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELVIS View Post
    it's like Nitro said recently. Something like People will vote in another Hitler if you promise them a free hotdog...
    You would or some new Christian Taliban version but fortunately the majority people wouldn't despite the fear mongering you promote.

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    Here is an example of government death panels in action to patients under government care
    - Top doctor's chilling claim: The NHS kills off 130,000 elderly patients every year
    - Professor says doctors use 'death pathway' to euthenasia of the elderly
    - Treatment on average brings a patient to death in 33 hours
    - Around 29 per cent of patients that die in hospital are on controversial 'care pathway'
    - Pensioner admitted to hospital given treatment by doctor on weekend shift


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz24T7ip7L0
    NHS doctors are prematurely ending the lives of thousands of elderly hospital patients because they are difficult to manage or to free up beds, a senior consultant claimed yesterday.
    Professor Patrick Pullicino said doctors had turned the use of a controversial ‘death pathway’ into the equivalent of euthanasia of the elderly.
    He claimed there was often a lack of clear evidence for initiating the Liverpool Care Pathway, a method of looking after terminally ill patients that is used in hospitals across the country.
    It is designed to come into force when doctors believe it is impossible for a patient to recover and death is imminent.
    It can include withdrawal of treatment – including the provision of water and nourishment by tube – and on average brings a patient to death in 33 hours.
    There are around 450,000 deaths in Britain each year of people who are in hospital or under NHS care. Around 29 per cent – 130,000 – are of patients who were on the LCP.
    Professor Pullicino claimed that far too often elderly patients who could live longer are placed on the LCP and it had now become an ‘assisted death pathway rather than a care pathway’.
    He cited ‘pressure on beds and difficulty with nursing confused or difficult-to-manage elderly patients’ as factors.
    Professor Pullicino revealed he had personally intervened to take a patient off the LCP who went on to be successfully treated.
    He said this showed that claims they had hours or days left are ‘palpably false’.
    In the example he revealed a 71-year-old who was admitted to hospital suffering from pneumonia and epilepsy was put on the LCP by a covering doctor on a weekend shift.

    Professor Pullicino said he had returned to work after a weekend to find the patient unresponsive and his family upset because they had not agreed to place him on the LCP.
    ‘I removed the patient from the LCP despite significant resistance,’ he said.
    ‘His seizures came under control and four weeks later he was discharged home to his family,’ he said.
    Professor Pullicino, a consultant neurologist for East Kent Hospitals and Professor of Clinical Neurosciences at the University of Kent, was speaking to the Royal Society of Medicine in London.

    Distressing: The professor has claimed an approved technique of looking after the terminally ill is not being used in all hospitals
    He said: ‘The lack of evidence for initiating the Liverpool Care Pathway makes it an assisted death pathway rather than a care pathway.
    ‘Very likely many elderly patients who could live substantially longer are being killed by the LCP.
    ‘Patients are frequently put on the pathway without a proper analysis of their condition.
    ‘Predicting death in a time frame of three to four days, or even at any other specific time, is not possible scientifically.
    This determination in the LCP leads to a self-fulfilling prophecy. The personal views of the physician or other medical team members of perceived quality of life or low likelihood of a good outcome are probably central in putting a patient on the LCP.’
    He added: ‘If we accept the Liverpool Care Pathway we accept that euthanasia is part of the standard way of dying as it is now associated with 29 per cent of NHS deaths.’
    The LCP was developed in the North West during the 1990s and recommended to hospitals by the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence in 2004.
    Medical criticisms of the Liverpool Care Pathway were voiced nearly three years ago.
    Experts including Peter Millard, emeritus professor of geriatrics at the University of London, and Dr Peter Hargreaves, palliative care consultant at St Luke’s cancer centre in Guildford, Surrey, warned of ‘backdoor euthanasia’ and the risk that economic factors were being brought into the treatment of vulnerable patients.
    In the example of the 71-year-old, Professor Pullicino revealed he had given the patient another 14 months of life by demanding the man be removed from the LCP.


    Professor Pullicino said the patient was an Italian who spoke poor English, but was living with a ‘supportive wife and daughter’. He had a history of cerebral haemorrhage and subsequent seizures.
    Professor Pullicino said: ‘I found him deeply unresponsive on a Monday morning and was told he had been put on the LCP. He was on morphine via a syringe driver.’ He added: ‘I removed the patient from the LCP despite significant resistance.’
    The patient’s extra 14 months of life came at considerable cost to the NHS and the taxpayer, Professor Pullicino indicated.
    He said he needed extensive support with wheelchair, ramps and nursing.
    After 14 months the patient was admitted to a different hospital with pneumonia and put on the LCP. The man died five hours later.
    A Department of Health spokesman said: ‘The Liverpool Care Pathway is not euthanasia and we do not recognise these figures. The pathway is recommended by NICE and has overwhelming support from clinicians – at home and abroad – including the Royal College of Physicians.
    ‘A patient’s condition is monitored at least every four hours and, if a patient improves, they are taken off the Liverpool Care Pathway and given whatever treatments best suit their new needs.’

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ents-year.html
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    Did you even read that?

    What a fucking idiotic headline.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    Did you even read that?

    What a fucking idiotic headline.
    Sesh, you can find this same story from The Guardian and most other British news sources. This guy's colleague's have verified his statements.

    The case of patient neglect also runs rampant throughout your NHS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    Local gov'ts control the edu'macational system the most, along with states...
    And look at how well they're doing with it in Doc's state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    Local gov'ts control the edu'macational system the most, along with states...
    I know, I wasn't advocating that the state government takes over healthcare ... that's just as scary. My point was that government is terrible at some things, but corporations are bad in a completely different way about it. I don't know what the right solution is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardrock69 View Post
    So does Jesus have the ability to issue executive orders or pass congressional legislation?
    My Kingdom is not of this world
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBadBrian View Post
    Sesh, you can find this same story from The Guardian and most other British news sources. This guy's colleague's have verified his statements.

    The case of patient neglect also runs rampant throughout your NHS.
    No fucking sane person would want to swap our system for yours.

    Idiot conservatives in the US set up this straw man bullshit all the fucking time. It's not fucking complicated but whatever.

    IN THE UK, AUSTRALIA, CANADA, FRANCE and everywhere fucking else you can take out private insurance and get healthcare as 'good' as the private healthcare in the US whenever the fuck you want.

    The difference is our safety net is so vastly much higher than yours that most people don't feel the need to, yet our tax burden is almost the same.

    YOU ARE BEING SCREWED. 30% of your healthcare spending goes to fund private insurers. They skim that off the top and bribe your politicians to keep it that way.

    How anyone can possibly get to the fuckwit level of paranoia whereby they trust a fucking insurance company over a government administrator who doesn't give a shit either way is beyond me.

    Follow the money, follow the motivation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FORD View Post
    And look at how well they're doing with it in Doc's state.

    You know you're fucked when they straight up say "We don't want to encourage (critical) THINKING."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    IN THE UK, AUSTRALIA, CANADA, FRANCE and everywhere fucking else you can take out private insurance and get healthcare as 'good' as the private healthcare in the US whenever the fuck you want.
    Just to clarify Sesh, we don't have private insurance, except for extended health. That covers dental, vision, chiro, massage, physio, prescription meds, etc.

    Our only problem is wait-times for elective non-life threatening surgery such as hip replacement.
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    But you can have if you wish.

    There is a crazy bullshit propaganda being fed to Americans that if you have a public healthcare system private healthcare suddenly becomes illegal.

    Bullshit. In fact anywhere outside Cuba it's encouraged because if you opt out and do your own thing it saves the government money.

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    Oh and don't EVER get chiro.

    It's pretend quackery and a major killer of people in our demographic, just get a massage instead.

    http://whatstheharm.net/chiropractic.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    No fucking sane person would want to swap our system for yours.
    They would if they wanted better, more advanced care.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angel View Post

    Our only problem is wait-times for elective non-life threatening surgery such as hip replacement.
    Had a Canuck in my office the other day for something similar. Nice guy with a nice wife.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    But you can have if you wish.

    There is a crazy bullshit propaganda being fed to Americans that if you have a public healthcare system private healthcare suddenly becomes illegal.

    Bullshit. In fact anywhere outside Cuba it's encouraged because if you opt out and do your own thing it saves the government money.
    Actually, there are people here in the US who seem to think that private insurers should be illegal. They think anyone making a profit in the healthcare industry should be illegal. How are your physicians paid, by some sort of scale?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBadBrian View Post
    They would if they wanted better, more advanced care.

    You ever see the infant mortality rates for somewhere like Detroit? It's 3rd world stuff.

    The best care for life threatening conditions in the US is marginally better than public healthcare here. The main difference is that cancer survival rates are higher in the US but that gap is being narrowed all the time. I think a lot of that was to do with human nature, if you are paying for something directly then you go get your health checks and they were being picked up earlier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBadBrian View Post
    How are your physicians paid, by some sort of scale?
    Fucking right and that is a very good thing.

    Many top that up with private income.

    Many physicians here are overpaid. In the US it's criminal how much money some of them make.

    No one should worry about physicians not making enough money...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    You ever see the infant mortality rates for somewhere like Detroit? It's 3rd world stuff.
    "Cultural" reasons.

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