Diver Down Sound

[Hummingbird]

I've always thought the production on DD sucked. Compared to the rest of the six pack, the sound is thin, the album sort of quiet. One of the hallmarks of the early VH sound was the rich, full sound - and this album doesn't have it at all. When I first bought it, I wondered if maybe I'd bought a defective disc.

Yet, I've never heard anyone talk about it on any of the VH forums I've lurked at. Nor have I heard Ed (or anyone else) mention it in any interviews. The only thing I've ever heard was that Ed had a string catch on a bobbin on Franky on the WDFA tour, adversely affecting his tone from then on. But even then, that just refers to his tone. I know I've heard Ed remark on the production for VH II (the whole 'lot of coke on the console' statement), but nothing for DD.

Has anyone ever heard any comment on why DD sounds the way it does? I've sometimes wondered if it was influenced by the sound of radio - I recall an interview where Ed mentioned that they were listening to a transistor in Louisville, KY when "Big Bad Bill" came on, and the band collectively had an orgasm over it. My only theory is that the production was some kind of homage to the sound of radio.

Still, I feel cheated. My complaints about the album are not the typical ones about song selection, but rather that the songs don't sound as rich as they could.

Thoughts?

[Yount]

From what I've read, Diver Down was a whip-up LP to go with the single Pretty Woman. Van Halen had just finished a grueling world tour and were keen to take time off (surprise surprise!) but when Pretty Woman caught on stronger than they had figured it would, an album to capitalize $eemed like a real plan. I assume they only had a few loose ideas floating around so they chose a few more covers. Maybe that explains the different sound. It was rushed a little more perhaps.

It's a deceptive album to me. Some real happy sounds that mask the usual dark lyrical content. I always try to picture Van Halen in '82. That album was really the beginning of superfame don't you think?

Compare Diver Down with the making of Fair Warning, FW supposedly was an Eddie baby that took a lot of time to record. DD is more of a Ted & Dave baby. This is only what I have read and heard from interviews. I like Diver Down a lot an I think it has a unique place in the VH catalog. And won't you tell me where have all the good times gone?

[SunisinuS]

I've always thought the production on DD sucked. Compared to the rest of the six pack, the sound is thin, the album sort of quiet. One of the hallmarks of the early VH sound was the rich, full sound - and this album doesn't have it at all. When I first bought it, I wondered if maybe I'd bought a defective disc

Agreed.

It comes first with the second repeated lick of "Where Have All the Good Times Gone" as the "thin" starts right there.

But: If you listen to it at the same volume....like to "Hang Em High" later in the album you will notice that they are loud.

I surmise that there are 3 songs on there that fit your sonic theory, like almost a dis-jointed 2 producer thing.

Here is the Oracle's take:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diver_Down

[Yount]

The production can blow but Van Halen still turns it into a summery warm fuzzy druggy good time! Don't get too critical... thank God VAN HALEN released ANYTHING in 1982!!!!!

[ashstralia]

It sounded good in my lj torana in the 80's..
Voxon stereo with pioneer speakers...

The sweet little 202 + triples singing her song...

God I miss those days

[Hummingbird]

I guess the rushed production theory makes a lot of sense. Reading between the lines of all of Ed's interview material from that era, it just sounds like it was an album that the VH bros. would rather not have made. Thank god for Dave & Ted, eh?

Don't get me wrong - I'm not down on the album at all. The songs are consistently good across the board, and it's got that great Dave-ish sense of humor. I love the uniqueness of "Secrets," and I can't ever listen to the "Little Guitars" suite in a moving vehicle without my right foot slamming down to the floorboard! It's just that I've always wondered why the sound was so different in '82.

I wish I'd been around & sentient enough to experience these albums as they came out...

[VAiN]

I'm going to completely disagree. I LOVE the sound on DD. The tone on 'Hang 'em High' and 'Little Guitars' is incredible. The drums sound natural and big.. I think that album has a wonderful, warm 'brown' sound to it. It's simple - like how a band sounds when they're playing in front of you in a small room.
I'll go so far as to say its better sounding than WACF - and I LOVE that album.

[Yount]

Pure speculation here, but my theory is that after Fair Warning the band was almost shot, at each others' throats, particularly Dave & Ed in terms of musical direction. I've read quotes where Ed was ready to leave the band before DD, and Dave told him "no more solos/guitar hero stuff".
Dave mentions in his book, Ed hiding away (with engineer Don Landee I think!) with the master tapes for Fair Warning... sounds like the start of the 5150 conversion.... that would then give Ed complete control. Dave would have been aware of this unfolding...

So then they do DD as a Dave/Ted thing. Some covers and a lot of "Daveness" on this LP. Maybe Dave could see it was all over and was subtly making steps to cross over into solo territory. Some of these songs have (like the cover art) a lot going on beneath the surface....

So either a rush recorded LP or a little "Dave-flavored fuck you" before the gates on Howdy Doody mountain shut for the remainder of the 80's, 90's, 00's - to explain the different sound on DD.

Why does Ed hate DD so much? I heard his pissed radio interview after DD was released and he was praising the covers and the original songs, sticking up for the band saying there's some good stuff in those songs and the media were the ones saying "Van Halen doing covers again bullshit". Since then he has stated publicly he hates it. I just assume it to be because Ed didn't have ultimate creative control.

Like I said, pure speculation.

[78/84 guy]

Fair Warning didn't sell well even though the tour was huge. I think it was a bad move for the most part. I love that album except Dancing In The Streets. But I'm with Ed on this one. He said that wasn't the direction he wanted the band too go in. But Dave & Ted wanted hits. With all the demos or back catolog the band had in the can at the time it's a shame they didn't use more of it. Like the stuff that showed up on A.D.K.O.T. How does the remasted sound ?

[Yount]

I think Ed and Al were lazy. They were pretty rich by then. They can pay out Dancing in the streets, and talk about the back catalog, and the 10 albums in the head of Ed... but would they have actually done anything if they hadn't done DD? Maybe, but it would have taken longer.

Hard to agree with Ed. He shouldn't be in charge. '84-onwards proves that point. Get back to your beer and write me another riff, guitar player!!

[Yount]

I think the VH Dancing in the streets is way cooler than the Bowie-Jagger cut!

[78/84 guy]

I think Ed and Al were lazy. They were pretty rich by then. They can pay out Dancing in the streets, and talk about the back catalog, and the 10 albums in the head of Ed... but would they have actually done anything if they hadn't done DD? Maybe, but it would have taken longer.

Hard to agree with Ed. He shouldn't be in charge. '84-onwards proves that point. Get back to your beer and write me another riff, guitar player!!

Well Dave's the one that walked away right ? It didn't really matter what Ed did after that. He was never going to replace Dave. He was lucky that people were still interested in his playing, or the only people listening to Van Hagar would be the girls. And I don't mind some of that stuff. I totally agree with Ed on that one. Maybe because it's the only thing he ever said that wasn't a lie ! Diver Down is lame in many ways as a Van Halen album. But it's still fun.

[Yount]

I think control-freak Dave walked away from control-freak Ed because of 5150 and the sluggish writing process.
I'm just curious... can you give a quick list of "lame" moments from DD please?

You've mentioned Dancing In the streets. What about it?

Anything else?

(For me, hmmm, Hang 'em high where Dave's verses are similar to the riff, Cathedral maybe is too long, I'm nit-picking though, this album is nice!!)

[Yount]

Oh wait, the album was TOO FUCKING SHORT, AGAIN!!

[78/84 guy]

Lame in Van Halen terms for me. No balls on it whatsoever ! Sure Hang Em' has a little. Even Little Guitars to a point. My point was they were in their prime for the most part. Fair Warning my have been their best writing, album wise. Then they come up with a mostly cover album ? Don't get that for the most part. Hey I think it's a great album. It's classic Van Halen. But I would rather listen to the new one. Songs that should have been on that one. It's all good.

[78/84 guy]

Oh wait, the album was TOO FUCKING SHORT, AGAIN!!

All the six pack was ! Fair Warning for sure. It kind of fizzels out for me with Sunday Afternoon & One Foot Out The Door. I think it could have ended better. I have my own versions of the 6 pack. Added demos to them. Like the original version of House Of Pain to VH I. It should have been on there along side Devil with the car horn. I never liked the 1984 version that much. I put the 1996 songs at the end of that one. Give it a try.

[Zing!]

I'm going to completely disagree. I LOVE the sound on DD. The tone on 'Hang 'em High' and 'Little Guitars' is incredible. The drums sound natural and big.. I think that album has a wonderful, warm 'brown' sound to it. It's simple - like how a band sounds when they're playing in front of you in a small room.
I'll go so far as to say its better sounding than WACF - and I LOVE that album.

Yes - I for one like the sound on DD better than VH II or WACF. The bottom line is, all the albums sonically sound a little different. I have to adjust the bass and treble accordingly when I listen to each one. For me, the first album, FW, 1984, and ADKOT have the best sound.

[Yount]

I get what you are saying about the come down from Fair Warning. Fair enough!
Diver Down is almost an EP rather than LP; just a few covers, instrumentals and a couple of original ideas slapped together. I look at it that way. It's a nice little disc in between FW and 1984.
I'm not a wiz-bang-guitar-head, but besides the differing tone of this album, what do you people think of the actual guitar playing and solos compared to FW and 1984? Were you really impressed by Eddie's stuff on DD, or was he just treading water?

Where did they go wrong? Production? Songwriting (riffs, solos, vocs)? Song selection?

[lesfunk]

I remember waiting and waiting.... then rushing to the store the first day it was released; tearing the plastic off the cover and throwing my vinyl on my turntable....Then feeling ripped off

[Zing!]

I remember waiting and waiting.... then rushing to the store the first day it was released; tearing the plastic off the cover and throwing my vinyl on my turntable....Then feeling ripped off

I call that the "5150 Effect."

[78/84 guy]

Little Guitars and Secrets are great songs but mellow. Hang Em is a old song. To me they just didn't but alot of effort into it. Sure they had to run through the covers to get an idea of how to do them. But overall it works. Its fun. Thats why VH II is my favorite album by them. Fun songs. But still has meaner stuff like Doctor and Light Up The Sky. Ed's playing on D.D. is very good. But D.D. to me is almost a Dave solo album. Fun but not Van Halen. They got back on track with 1984. Like I said I think Ed was right. He wanted to use his own stuff. At least thats what he has said in newer interviews.

[Yount]

So maybe there was heaps of new stuff to work with but the two could not work together or agree where to take that stuff! Covers might have stopped them killing each other!

[78/84 guy]

Who knows. 1984 couldn't have been any better really. They didn't kill each other doing that one. But they still had to work the covers out. But than again Dave probably didn't need to be around for the band to do that. He just need to fiqure out how to do the vocal parts. I don't know. Sounds like they were still having some fun together. Happy Trails is funny. And Big Bad Bill.

[78/84 guy]

I remember Ed was pissed he had too use the Moog sound or whatever it was for Dancing In The Streets. He wanted it for his own song. Then Dave & Ted said use it for Streets.

[chefcraig]

I'm going to completely disagree. I LOVE the sound on DD. The tone on 'Hang 'em High' and 'Little Guitars' is incredible. The drums sound natural and big.. I think that album has a wonderful, warm 'brown' sound to it. It's simple - like how a band sounds when they're playing in front of you in a small room.
I'll go so far as to say its better sounding than WACF - and I LOVE that album.

Absolutely on the money. The weird opening riff in "Little Guitars", along with the amazing crispness of the snare and cymbals pretty much serve as a blueprint for the entire concept of the brown sound.

[78/84 guy]

I think the VH Dancing in the streets is way cooler than the Bowie-Jagger cut!

Watching my car rust is better than watching that fucking piece of shit ! God is it sad.

[Yount]

Who knows. 1984 couldn't have been any better really. They didn't kill each other doing that one.

I heard it was painfully difficult to make, enough to make Dave jump from the greatest band in the world, (or tell the greatest band in the world to jump.)

"Be sure you're hurting long before you fly, because you've got me.
Catch as catch, catch as catch.
Anybody in their right mind could see, you and me."

If I were Ed, Little Guitars would have been pretty tough to listen to after the fallout.

[DLR Bridge]

I love the sound of Diver Down much in the way VAiN described it. My only problem with it, really, is the volume. There's nothing more annoying than listening to your I Pod on shuffle mode and going from a present day tune like As Is into Little Guitars. With all of today's technology, you'd think Apple or someone would have figured out a way to instantly auto-balance the volume levels. Somebody get on that.

[chefcraig]

With all of today's technology, you'd think Apple or someone would have figured out a way to instantly auto-balance the volume levels. Somebody get on that.

Of all people, Neil Young is on the case (believe it or not). See the LINK below...

Neil Young Begins His Long Quest Towards True Audio Fidelity With Pono, A New Music Service And Device

[DLR Bridge]

Go Neil!! Sounds like he's making a valiant effort in the uphill battle that is keeping music from sounding like shit due to excessive amounts of technology.

[Zing!]

I love the sound of Diver Down much in the way VAiN described it. My only problem with it, really, is the volume. There's nothing more annoying than listening to your I Pod on shuffle mode and going from a present day tune like As Is into Little Guitars. With all of today's technology, you'd think Apple or someone would have figured out a way to instantly auto-balance the volume levels. Somebody get on that.

Pandora has it figured out. You can listen to those tracks back to back with no noticeable difference. But yeah, i-Tunes is all over the place depending on which version or master you're listening to.

[78/84 guy]

I heard it was painfully difficult to make, enough to make Dave jump from the greatest band in the world, (or tell the greatest band in the world to jump.)

"Be sure you're hurting long before you fly, because you've got me.
Catch as catch, catch as catch.
Anybody in their right mind could see, you and me."

If I were Ed, Little Guitars would have been pretty tough to listen to after the fallout.

Well I don't think there was much more friction than in the past. But sure it was growing. I think Dave was getting a little full of himself the last few years of Van Halen. But let's not forget he did a world tour with them for 1984. He quit according to his book in 1985 because Ed & Al were drunk all the time and didn't want to work as fast. So I will stick with his reasons before anything the sisters say. Can't they just remaster older albums with more volume on them ? I don't have the remastered 6-pack.

[DLR Bridge]

The only remaster I bought was Fair Warning and I couldn't really tell much of a difference from the regular cd.

[Yount]

I don't have the remastered 6-pack.

Don't bother. To me, it was wasted cash. I only wish I had the 6-pack on vinyl in mint condition. All I have is 1984 that has a scratch on Drop Dead Legs

[Zing!]

Don't bother. To me, it was wasted cash. I only wish I had the 6-pack on vinyl in mint condition. All I have is 1984 that has a scratch on Drop Dead Legs

Just bought quality VH II, FW, and 84 at a half price books today for $3.99 a piece. Gonna frame those mofos (my personal copies are so worn down the album covers all have the white 'record rings' on the front). All but FW had dust jackets on them too!

[Yount]

Is it just a mistake that the back of 1984 vinyl is upsidedown or is that the way it is everywhere?

[chefcraig]

Is it just a mistake that the back of 1984 vinyl is upsidedown or is that the way it is everywhere?

Here ya go: LINK

[Zing!]

Both of my 84's are upside down on the back. I assumed that was simply the boys being cheeky...

[jcrizzy]

The only remaster I bought was Fair Warning and I couldn't really tell much of a difference from the regular cd.

Remasters... yea last year I got jazzed to get them all remastered since I never bothered before. Well overall can't tell much difference. Most ARE louder as they should be to match today's production more. But still not much diff from the originals. But allowed me to replace my original VH CDs from when CDs first came out in the 80's

[jcrizzy]

I have no problem w DD songs or production. I know it gets dogged a lot. Too short? yeah but most VH albums were 30-40mins and 10 songs. Too many covers? Fair enough...but VH always made cover songs their own...so they all feel like VH songs to me. Production-wise I don't mind it.

Like all VH albums... if you grew up with them...listening now can transport you back to that time in your life. I was just getting into VH around '82 (unfortunately a little late)...so DD was the first album I was waiting to buy.

FW wasn't a big hit commercially at the time, even though the tour was huge. So DD almost makes sense to come back to more light and fun album. They started to get even bigger in '82, with another huge tour, US Fest, etc... Then 1984 = superstars.. woot.

And every album has their own distinct vibe (songs and production)... and together as a collection they all makes sense. That's what I love.