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Thread: End the War on Terror

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    End the War on Terror

    End the war on terror and save billions
    By Fareed Zakaria, Published: December 6

    As we debate whether the two parties can ever come together and get things done, here’s something President Obama could probably do by himself that would be a signal accomplishment of his presidency: End the war on terror. Or, more realistically, start planning and preparing the country for phasing it out.

    For 11 years, the United States has been operating under emergency wartime powers granted under the 2001 “Authorization for Use of Military Force.” That is a longer period than the country spent fighting the Civil War, World War I and World War II combined. It grants the president and the federal government extraordinary authorities at home and abroad, effectively suspends civil liberties for anyone the government deems an enemy and keeps us on a permanent war footing in all kinds of ways.

    Now, for the first time since Sept. 11, 2001, an administration official has sketched a possible endpoint.

    In a thoughtful speech at the Oxford Union last week, Jeh Johnson, the outgoing general counsel for the Pentagon, recognized that “we cannot and should not expect al-Qaeda and its associated forces to all surrender, all lay down their weapons in an open field, or to sign a peace treaty with us. They are terrorist organizations. Nor can we capture or kill every last terrorist who claims an affiliation with al-Qaeda.”

    But, he argued, “There will come a tipping point . . . at which so many of the leaders and operatives of al-Qaeda and its affiliates have been killed or captured, and the group is no longer able to attempt or launch a strategic attack against the United States, such that al-Qaeda as we know it, the organization that our Congress authorized the military to pursue in 2001, has been effectively destroyed.” At that point, “our efforts should no longer be considered an armed conflict.”

    Phasing out or modifying these emergency powers should be something that would appeal to both left and right. James Madison, father of the Constitution, was clear on the topic. “Of all the enemies to public liberty,” he wrote, “war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes. . . . No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.”

    If you want to know why we’re in such a deep budgetary hole, one large piece of it is that we have spent around $2 trillion on foreign wars in the past decade. Not coincidentally, we have had the largest expansion of the federal government since World War II. The Post’s Dana Priest and William Arkin have described how the U.S. government has built 33 new complexes for the intelligence bureaucracies alone. The Department of Homeland Security employs 230,000 people.

    A new Global Terrorism Index this week showed that terrorism went up from 2002 to 2007 – largely because of the conflicts in Afghanistan/Pakistan and Iraq — but has declined ever since. And the part of the world with the fewest incidents is North America. It could be our vigilance that is keeping terror attacks at bay. But it is also worth noting, as we observe the vast apparatus of searches and screening, that the Transportation Security Administration’s assistant administrator for global strategies has admitted that those expensive and cumbersome whole-body scanners have not resulted in the arrest of a single suspected terrorist. Not one.

    Of course there are real threats out there, from sources including new branches of al-Qaeda and other such groups. And of course they will have to be battled, and those terrorists should be captured or killed. But we have done this before, and we can do so in the future under more normal circumstances. It will mean that the administration will have to be more careful — and perhaps have more congressional involvement — for certain actions, such as drone strikes. It might mean it will have to charge some of the people held at Guantanamo and try them in military or civilian courts.

    In any event, it is a good idea that the United States find a way to conduct its anti-terrorism campaigns within a more normal legal framework, rather than rely on blanket wartime authority granted in a panic after Sept. 11.

    No president wants to give up power. But this one is uniquely positioned to begin a serious conversation about a path out of permanent war.

    comments@fareedzakaria.com

    Read more from The Washington Post: Michael Gerson: Obama lacks leadership in the war on terror The Post’s View: Drone war demands accountability Charles Krauthammer: Barack Obama — drone warrior

    © The Washington Post Company

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    Can't disagree with most of that..... aside from the complete and utter horseshit about "new branches of Al Qaeda".
    Eat Us And Smile

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    I have to ask... when all these service men and women come home will they have jobs to return to?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ashstralia View Post
    I have to ask... when all these service men and women come home will they have jobs to return to?
    And that might be the very reason that Obama is dragging his ass when it comes to getting out of Afghanistan.

    Ending the war is great..... adding additional millions to the unemployment rolls, not so much

    All the more reason why a FDR style massive public works infrastructure project is needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FORD View Post
    All the more reason why a FDR style massive public works infrastructure project is needed.
    In a perfect world where this happened - what should be first on the docket?

    Mass transit has to be a consideration. Maybe coast to coast light rail? Or start off simple by repairing and expanding freeways and bridges that are falling apart? Or do you invest that money into education - building state of the art schools and student housing (for those who can even afford to go to college that is). Thoughts?
    My karma just ran over your dogma.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FORD View Post
    And that might be the very reason that Obama is dragging his ass when it comes to getting out of Afghanistan.

    Ending the war is great..... adding additional millions to the unemployment rolls, not so much

    ....
    We don't have that many people in Afghanistan and even after their withdrawal, most will still be able to stay in the Army if they want too...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zing! View Post
    In a perfect world where this happened - what should be first on the docket?

    Mass transit has to be a consideration. Maybe coast to coast light rail? Or start off simple by repairing and expanding freeways and bridges that are falling apart? Or do you invest that money into education - building state of the art schools and student housing (for those who can even afford to go to college that is). Thoughts?
    All of the above are needed, but obviously fixing the existing infrastructure should take top priority.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FORD View Post
    And that might be the very reason that Obama is dragging his ass when it comes to getting out of Afghanistan.

    Ending the war is great..... adding additional millions to the unemployment rolls, not so much

    All the more reason why a FDR style massive public works infrastructure project is needed.
    The CCC did a lot of good. It was ran much like a military operation. Instead of just giving money away to people who are able to work, put them to work. You can join the CCC and work on a government program or you can go find work yourself but if you are going to get government money, you will work for it. Then you could tie in a GI BIll type thing with it so the more motivated people could have a ladder up.

    It would not be popular with lazy people but then we aren't helping these people by just giving them handouts. They produce lazy kids and the problems go on to the next generation.
    Last edited by Nitro Express; 12-09-2012 at 10:07 PM.

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    The fucking crazy figure I saw was $1 million per soldier per year in Afghanistan so it should be possible to pay them to do something else and still be 95% cheaper.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    The fucking crazy figure I saw was $1 million per soldier per year in Afghanistan so it should be possible to pay them to do something else and still be 95% cheaper.
    The people who started the war are the same ones who owned shares in companies that profit from supplying the war. The people in charge want it to cost $1 million per soldier. Who knows, maybe Obama is making money off of it too. Eisenhower was spot on when he warned us about the military industrial complex starting wars to feed itself.
    Last edited by Nitro Express; 12-09-2012 at 10:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zing! View Post
    In a perfect world where this happened - what should be first on the docket?

    Mass transit has to be a consideration. Maybe coast to coast light rail? Or start off simple by repairing and expanding freeways and bridges that are falling apart? Or do you invest that money into education - building state of the art schools and student housing (for those who can even afford to go to college that is). Thoughts?
    Actually how you can make fiat money work is you come up with a grand plan of what you want and then you print enough money to achieve it and then don't print anymore than that. Once you print more money than the economy uses then you run into problems. The thing is, good luck getting anyone to agree on what the big plan is going to be and who controls the money supply.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FORD View Post
    Can't disagree with most of that..... aside from the complete and utter horseshit about "new branches of Al Qaeda".
    Do some legitimate reading other than your conspiracy theory crap. I've read quite a bit about iraq/Afghanistan/Taliban/Al Qaeda in the last few months and al Qaeda does exist. It's not going away either, and neither is the Taliban or the other terrorist groups in Pakistan and Afghanistan such as HIG.

    What's utter horseshit is the statement above: “There will come a tipping point . . . at which so many of the leaders and operatives of al-Qaeda and its affiliates have been killed or captured, and the group is no longer able to attempt or launch a strategic attack against the United States, such that al-Qaeda as we know it, the organization that our Congress authorized the military to pursue in 2001, has been effectively destroyed.”
    “If bullshit was currency, Joe Biden would be a billionaire.” - George W. Bush

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    The only tipping point would be if there was an end to the indoctrination of people with iron age superstitions.

    That could take a couple of hundred years at least.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    The only tipping point would be if there was an end to the indoctrination of people with iron age superstitions.

    That could take a couple of hundred years at least.
    Short of some big 2012 revelation in the next couple of weeks, methinks the Bronze-Age Bogeyman ain't goin anywhere anytime soon...

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    Bringing the majority of deployed troops overseas and putting them to use defending our own borders would inject over a million employed, paying customers back into our own economy. This would spur demand and growth and help bolster the economy more than public works projects (some of which are necessary regardless).
    I've got the cure you're thinkin' of.

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