AMENDMENT II to the US Constitution
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
AMENDMENT II to the US Constitution
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
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It's one thing to own guns responsibly and to be in favor of the second admendment. I have absolutley NO issue with that. But what I don't like is when people's first reaction to the shooting is "dem bleedin' heart liberals are gon' take away our guns!" And that's all you care about. In that case, I would say that you don't give a shit about the 20 children that died, your priorities as a human being suck, and you have absolutley no heart or soul.
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Larry Pratt
A gunman whose name we do not need to memorialize took advantage of our gun control laws to slaughter some 20 children and seven adults in a Newton, Connecticut elementary school.
In addition to the gunman, blood is on the hands of members of Congress and the Connecticut legislators who voted to ban guns from all schools in Connecticut (and most other states). They are the ones who made it illegal to defend oneself with a gun in a school when that is the only effective way of resisting a gunman.
What a lethal, false security are the Gun Free Zone laws. All of our mass murders in the last 20 years have occurred in Gun Free Zones. The two people murdered a couple of days earlier in the shopping center in Oregon were also in a Gun Free Zone.
Hopefully the Connecticut tragedy will be the tipping point after which a rising chorus of Americans will demand elimination of the Gun Free Zone laws that are in fact Criminal Safe Zones.
One measure of insanity is repeating the same failure time after time hoping that the next time the failure will turn out to be a success. Gun Free Zones are a lethal insanity.
We must tell our elected officials that they are acting as the criminals’ friends as long as they continue to support legislation that only protects criminals, not decent people.
Oh, and we must also insist that these criminal friendly elected officials not even try to blame gun owners and our “gun culture” for what a criminal did. Had a few of us been available with guns at the Newton school, most of the victims might still be alive.
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This shooting is yet another tragic example of the failed, grotesque insistence on helpless victim zones where any crazed gunman can be assured of a large number of disarmed, undefended, helpless victims, all crammed into one place, where he can kill many children before an armed defender arrives from elsewhere.
It is disturbing and sick that the federal government so hates the right of the American people to bear arms, and so hates their natural right to self defense, that the government insists on making them helpless, disarmed victims for anyone who cares to kill them. And in this case, all of the teachers and staff were willfully disarmed by the Federal Government, by force of law and threat of prison, to ensure that they would be disarmed and incapable of saving the lives of the children entrusted to their care.
That makes the Federal Government complicit in the deaths of these children, and in fact an accessory to their mass murder, by forcibly disarming (with the very real threat of prison) all the teachers, all the staff, and any parent who may have been on school property. That stupid law guaranteed the shooters would meet no immediate armed resistance, which is exactly what is needed to stop such an attack.
In such a shooting (as in every criminal attack), seconds count, and the people best positioned to stop the attack are the people on the scene – the intended victims and/or their care-takers. In this case, that would mean the teachers and staff of the school who were responsible for the well-being of those children, and also the parents, who should have the ability to save the lives of their own children as they take them to and from school.
The police cannot, and do not arrive in time to stop such shooters from killing large numbers of people. They are a slow reactive force compared to an armed citizen on the scene. This should be common sense, as it is obvious that in the immediacy of a criminal attack, it is the intended victims (or their immediate care-takers) who are there, in position to put a stop to the attack, if they are capable. And being capable means being armed, trained, willing, and able to use deadly force, right then, right there. Anything less leads to what we saw here.
But no doubt the rabid anti-gun government supremacists will use this to further their agenda to disarm the American people, totally ignoring that obvious, plain-as-day truth. Anti-gun nuts trust the government with guns, but not the people, and insist that the lowly citizen must be disarmed and helpless in the face of murderous assault, and must wait on slow responding armed government employees, who will not be there when the attack starts, and most often can only really clean up the horrendous crime scene afterwards and maybe, just maybe apprehend a shooter who has chosen not to kill himself (as they usually do).
The bottom line is that these teachers and staff at the Sandy Hook Elementary School were incapable of keeping these children safe, and incapable of defending them. And one of the biggest reasons they were so incapable and unprepared to save the lives of the children entrusted to their care is because the anti-gun nuts and their fellow travelers in government insisted on disarming every adult in the vicinity, by threatening them with prison time – EXCEPT the gunmen, who don’t care about the law and thus were not disarmed. laws against carrying weapons in schools don’t stop evil men with murderous intent. Such laws only disarm the law abiding and virtuous, who are now rendered incompetent to defend the precious children in their care.
This is disgusting. And yet another reason to home-school. Why would you want to leave your children helpless, in the hands of adults who are themselves helpless, and incapable of defending them, by government decree? For all we know, one of the teachers may have been a veteran, with the training and skill to use a firearm if one had been available. But all the teachers and staff, whatever their ability with firearms, were stripped of the choice and chance to save the lives of these kids.
There are more good guys than bad guys in the world. But the good guys need to be able to stop the bad guys, and that means they need to be armed so they can stop the bad guys on the spot, without having to wait for “official” government approved good guys to respond. Trust the teachers with arms so they can save the lives of their students.
Until the adults are allowed to actually act like adults, and defend themselves and their students, this kind of willful killing will continue to happen, and the federal government will in each case be a guilty party to the conspiracy by ensuring that the targets are disarmed.
Until this changes, you should refuse to give your children over to government schools lorded over by a Federal Government so callous and indifferent to their safety and lives.
Stewart Rhodes,
Founder of Oath Keepers
Didn't the 1st murder occur in a house full of fucking guns???? didn't help Mother did it? That wasn't a gun free zone.Originally Posted by ELVIS
Larry Pratt
A gunman whose name we do not need to memorialize took advantage of our gun control laws to slaughter some 20 children and seven adults in a Newton, Connecticut elementary school.
In addition to the gunman, blood is on the hands of members of Congress and the Connecticut legislators who voted to ban guns from all schools in Connecticut (and most other states). They are the ones who made it illegal to defend oneself with a gun in a school when that is the only effective way of resisting a gunman.
What a lethal, false security are the Gun Free Zone laws. All of our mass murders in the last 20 years have occurred in Gun Free Zones. The two people murdered a couple of days earlier in the shopping center in Oregon were also in a Gun Free Zone.
Hopefully the Connecticut tragedy will be the tipping point after which a rising chorus of Americans will demand elimination of the Gun Free Zone laws that are in fact Criminal Safe Zones.
One measure of insanity is repeating the same failure time after time hoping that the next time the failure will turn out to be a success. Gun Free Zones are a lethal insanity.
We must tell our elected officials that they are acting as the criminals’ friends as long as they continue to support legislation that only protects criminals, not decent people.
Oh, and we must also insist that these criminal friendly elected officials not even try to blame gun owners and our “gun culture” for what a criminal did. Had a few of us been available with guns at the Newton school, most of the victims might still be alive.
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Sorry guys, America's gun laws are something i know nothing about, so i'll shut up now.
The dead mother is maybe an accomplice by circumstance...
Don't bring that fucking moron into this thread.
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If Mom hadn't had those guns in the house to begin with...that's all I'm going to say....
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BITEYOASS (12-16-2012)
In all honesty, if we're discussing arming elementary schools, and don't see the bigger issue here...
...and I'm not trying to get into it here...with anyone...I hear the viewpoints...and get them all...
Here's what I can tell you. I guarantee you that I own more guns than most people on this forum. I have two kids who have used them, and I can safely tell you that my kids will NEVER use them inappropriately because of the culture my whole family has in place.
But...in an insane world...there are families that have similar weapons in their house, and deal with it differently....and in an unhealthy way...
Not sure what that has to do with anything, but it does.
As per arming teachers...I just have nothing for it...for several reasons...
Proceed to discuss...and I suppose there really is something to take from all of this...and all of the ideas here...
But at the end of the day, if the fix is to continue to arm more...then our society will ultimately fail.
...and that has nothing and everything to do with how we HANDLE guns...
Because teaching the respect that u need to handle any weapon just isn't there. Seriously...go sit in an elementary school sometime and really watch the kids...and you'll get my point...
Have a good one gents...
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Angel (12-16-2012),jhale667 (12-16-2012),Nickdfresh (12-16-2012)
Fuck off, whore...
Personally, I think the opposite is true...
And so the racist trailer trash Elvis shows his true colors once again.
You're not a whore ??
Yeah, because a return to Deadwood clearly ensures a safe, healthy, long and prosperous life for one and all. Arming everyone to the teeth is not the answer.
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But passing more legislation will fix it, right ??
I'm of the opinion that something rather than nothing must be done. I'm not anti gun, but arming everyone everywhere only ensures a big step backwards in time will occur. Every dispute will end in someone being the quicker draw. That's insanity.
Did you ever see the movie the Incredibles? There's a great scene where the villain, Syndrome, who's powers are artificial (basically he's armed to the teeth with inventive weaponry) tells a shackled Mr. Incredible that he's going to sell all of his inventions to everybody so that everyone can be super. He closes with this truthful line, "and when everybody's super... no one will be."
You can't shun the concept of atleast entertaining the notion of how passing legislation may do something rather than nothing. What's the harm in a conversation being had?
fraroc (12-16-2012)
brilliant post...
but the harm is the lunatic fringe...
they don't want ANY conversation...
I'm not saying arm everyone...
I'm saying roll back all of the anti-gun legislation and let law-abiding citizens carry what ever firearm they like anywhere they like...
Let schools hire armed security if they feel it necessary to do so...
Go to the French Quarter in New Orleans where nearly every T-shirt shop has an armed off-duty police officer looking you in the eye...
You lost me at "lunatic fringe", teacher...
So, schools are going to pay for that how? Most can't fucking afford paper because funding from education is going away...but now we are going to hire an armed education force?
DLR Bridge (12-16-2012)
And there you have it. A perfect example of in-fucking-sanity.
We can't stop you from posting on here !
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I dunno...
Free up some federal funds that are being wasted on predator drones that kill children, or something...
Just don't involve the fucking TSA !!
Armed security? Are you aiming for society that resembles South Africa? Instead of evening the odds by arming everybody, why not go the other way and disarm everybody?
Sure, I know your next argument is gonna be that criminals will find a way to get weapons, but criminals in most cases go after other criminsls. It regulates itself :-)
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Why is that insane ??
To have a possible armed criminal think twice before robbing a store and killing the owner ??
How are you going to disarm a criminal ??
More guns = more gun violence.
As I wrote earlier, criminals mostly go after other criminals. Self-sanitation :-) Here we have many armed criminals, and many shootings (for a small country), but I have never heard that an innocent person has been a victim. At least not in my town, and we have MANY shootings.
And if you make guns illegal, it's easier to put criminals behind bars.
It's already illegal for a criminal to have a gun...
Why? How are you gonna disarm them
I at first envisioned an unarmed 14 year old kid stealing a T-shirt, making a run for it and ending up with a hole in the back of his head.
You see, this is why it's good to discuss this sort of thing. Different possibilities require different solutions. It's complicated and I certainly don't have the answer.
You add nothing to the conversation with your venomous attitude. Please stay on topic and try to argue the point of this thread. Thank you!
So you're saying confiscate and ban all firearms?
Incorrect.
More mental illness = more gun violence.
Saying a gun causes violence is like saying a fork causes you to be fat.
That would be difficult. I say what's sold is sold, but tighten the rules from now on. You gotta start somewhere :-)
I've moved some of the more obvious 'gun control and weapons related posts to this thread from the original thread started on the CT school massacre. Thank you for starting this thread, BBB...
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ashstralia (12-16-2012),Blaze (12-16-2012)
I made a weapons thread a while back but my search won't go that far back. It wasn't about gun control, but a thread where us gun owners were sharing what we owned, had shot before, liked, didn't like, and how we got our weapons. Most of mine were from my dad or grandpa. Only ever bought one myself. I just had a revolver, a 9mm with a 10 round magazine, a 12-gauge shotgun that would hold 3 shells, and a .410 shotgun that hold just 1 shell. I loved all my guns but had to sell them to survive. I hope to be in a financial position to buy another gun some day.
I always thought the assault rifles were idiotic for people to own. Then a friend & I rented one at the range. Bushmaster AR-15. Holy fuck that thing was so damn fun to shoot. I can't explain it beyond that. But Once I shot it I wanted one. I'd never buy one because they are like $1500+, but wow it was a lot of fun. Changed my mind on the first shot. So I can definitely see why people like these weapons. But if they ban them again....they did in CA in 1994.....it won't affect me and I don't really care.
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