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Thread: 1986: EVH on “5150” vs. Vai on “Eat ‘Em And Smile”

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    1986: EVH on “5150” vs. Vai on “Eat ‘Em And Smile”

    http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazin...And_Smile.aspx


    A good read:

    I remember the days of running down to the mailbox to see if the latest of many guitar magazine subscriptions had arrived, always hoping for one of two players to be on the cover: Eddie Van Halen or Steve Vai. Nothing drove me to my room faster for a three-hour session with the metronome than a fresh article from one of these rags. In the ’80s, young guitarists had to learn scales, finger tapping, whammy bar stunts, and lightning-fast crazy picking in order to have the chops necessary to play the music of the time period. It's funny to look back at how we dressed and the acrobatic crazy style of guitar playing, but if y¬¬ou wanted the admiration of your high school peers—and more importantly, the attention of the big-haired, acid-washed-jean-sporting girls from homeroom—you had to separate yourself from the pack. These were the days of force-fed hair metal and gigantor arena rock perpetuated by the publishers of Circus, Hit Parade, and Metal Edge magazine, as well as MTV and record store advertisements. Ah yes, it was a great time to be a 13-year-old kid.

    The biggest things to happen to this 13-year-old kid in 1986 was the release of the Van Halen album, 5150, as well as the release of the David Lee Roth album, Eat ’Em and Smile.

    They were complete opposites in style, image, and content. On one side of the coin you had the dynamic, polished, and perfected recipe of Eddie and Sammy. On the other was the innovative-daredevil playing of Steve Vai, combined with the "WTF is he saying?" lyrical stylings of Diamond Dave—the original ass-less-chaps-wearing golden god of metallic entertainment. 5150 was drenched in keyboards, Simmons drums, and high, melodic vocal melodies—not to mention, great pop-rock songwriting. Eat ’Em, was filled with high-flying, impossible guitar and bass riffage, combined with the spirit and vision of the original blonde banshee, and DLR’s own brand of back-page Penthouse magazine, tongue-in-cheek lyrics.

    Eat ’Em and Smile
    David Lee Roth assembled the ultimate team of wizards to go out and compete with his former band: a drummer in Greg Bissonett that could rival Alex (in drumming, though not in partying); Billy Sheehan, who attacks the bass like no other, often laying down a rhythm track that guitarists could never match; and, last but not least, the original little green man … Steve Vai.

    Digging deep into Vai's tracks is an eye-crossing experience. Even today, more than 25 years later, nobody has intertwined the inventive power chord rhythm verse tracks, (thank you EVH), with mind-blowing lead guitar pyrotechnics and highly original noodling everywhere in between like Vai has. Picking apart his guitar lines track by track is a sonic adventure—and a surprising number of licks are actually played by Billy! There is a clickety-click tonality to Vai's playing, where you really hear the feel of his right hand in the guitar parts. Picking out individual notes in chords, and making them the connecting glue from riff to riff. He also makes wonderful use of the Floyd Rose, both in leads and in chord dynamics, bending and shaping movements by way of dips, wiggles, and dives.

    Dave and the boys created a new style of music: Two-parts fire and ice musical imagery, one part pomp and diamond-studded fluff, and one part tight-rope walk between dynamics and silliness. It was a new Diamond Dave: stronger, faster, and bolder than ever.

    The Roth show was nothing short of a full-scale sonic attack on the audience. Steve Vai wiggling like a charmed snake on his side of the stage, and Billy 'rasslin his bass around his body like a leather boa, were perfect bookends to Captain Charisma spinning, kicking, and gyrating in center stage. These guys were great entertainers, providing classic ’80s arena rock excitement that matched their insane musicianship.

    5150
    Van Halen was also branching out, giving in to Sammy's pop sensibility and songwriting craftsmanship, while still allowing Eddie to give us plenty of harmonic dive bombs and horse whinnies.

    Eddie may be the greatest hard rock rhythm player ever. Creating solid, motor-revving song foundations, often with two- and three-note power chords, and combing that with his brother’s constantly cymbal-washed backbeat, makes a huge sound. Recently strapping on the high-dollar headphones and going inside the tracks, I realized that Alex was overplaying and attacking many of the tracks with furious drumming, while Eddie is actually keeping it more reserved and just performing the track in a solid, rhythmic mantra, choosing the right breaks between lyric lines, to throw a little flash here and there.

    The introduction of the Steinberger TransTrem into Eddie’s hands was something that even I was a little skeptical about (I thought I knew it all at the ripe old age of 13), because even with the red/white/black graphic, at the end of the day it still looked silly. Yet the riff of “Get Up” and intro of “Summer Night” are just outright innovative and unique.

    Van Halen was having fun. They were putting out the good party vibes, with grins from ear to ear, dressing in pajamas on a sleek stage and just running, jumping, and providing stadium-energized rock with plenty of sing-along anthems and Bic lighter opportunities.

    It was a good time to be a kid. The Van Halen split provided a new spark for both camps, and you could be a fan of both sides, because they each gave out enough of a different energy that you didn't have to choose which was better. They were both great power punch rock albums that a young guitarist could really sink his fingers into.

    27 Years Later
    With the perspective of a quarter-century behind me, this is what I see as the high and low points for each record:

    I love the free form feel of Eat ’Em and Smile—feeling like the rock train could go off the rails at any moment lends to the excitement of Steve Vai's playing. “Elephant Gun” was a great example of the power and fun of the new band: classic VH double-bass-drum groove with classic Diamond verbal musings. “Big Trouble” was my favorite from first listen—it just had my curiosity piqued. I still have no idea what the song is about, but it's easy to lose yourself in Vai's trickery and string-weaving wonders. The song “Bump and Grind,” sounds to me like the band looks and “Shyboy,” despite being an awesome Billy Sheehan tune before Dave, remained a great performance after Dave. “Yankee Rose” was the first thing we saw from the spandex- and ladies’ boot-clad, good-time having DLR band.

    On the downside, the album is too short: 30 minutes and 39 seconds is far too short for such a highly anticipated release. Plus, only six of the 10 tracks are original Roth compositions—nearly half of the record is covers of others, which gives the appearance of a rushed album, trying to keep up with the Van Halen brothers’ release. The energy captured on this album is nothing short of circus sideshow fun, and it would have served well to have had a little more of it.

    Overall I think the songs, melodies, riffs, and lyrical content of 5150 are great. It's a full album feel—fast songs, slow songs, songs about girls ... all the important ingredients. The rhythm guitar track of the title song—not just the supersonic intro but the single-note simplicity of the verses and riff note choice—is a thing of guitar hero beauty. In addition to faves “Best of Both Worlds,” “Summer Nights,” and “Get Up,” I have to tip my hat to the opening song, “Good Enough.” In 1986, we were buying cassette tapes—no skipping tracks, and you started the album on the first song. The first song was the first thing the band wanted you to hear, and in crazy anticipation of only the biggest thing to happen in my 13 years of life at that time, putting in the new Van Halen album, was something of a religious experience. I had no idea what to expect, and by the end of “Good Enough,” I knew that I was going to accept this new VH album with open arms … open arms raised high, with devil horns flying!

    Minuses? Short haircuts and electronic drums! I must admit that at the time, I loved the sound of the drums and could not get enough of the round-the-world tom rolls that Alex is known for (it was the ’80s after all), but sitting here 25+ years later, the tones of those drums don't hold weight to me.
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    What i remember about this time period is finding out that 5150 had come out and my stomach got nervous. I had an "oh no" feeling about it but i gave it a chance anyway. I found the record too lumbering with its tracks like Dreams and Love Comes Walking In. I did and have always liked Hot Summer Nights but that is about it. I remember thinking after hearing the record that it just wasn't for me. VH had moved in a different direction without Roth and i was just agreeable to disagree. Then the venom spewing started on Van Halen's end resulting in my full on hate for the band.
    When Eatem and Smile came out i raced to the mall to get it. I couldn't get enough and would see Roth and the boys on that tour 3 times. Yankee Rose was an instant classic and i grew to love Ladies Night and Big Trouble.
    When i look back now i see that EAS still runs circles around 5150 because it was true to what Roth represented. 5150 was a commercial attempt by Ed and Sambo to make hits and get alot of airplay but didn't have the soul of what Roth and his crew had done. Was 5150 a good record? Not in my book. It sold more and had more hits but the mudslinging campaign that went along with it still turns my stomach.
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    I got 5150 but didn't want to like it. I had heard why can't this be Dave and thought it was shit pop music without even a sense of humour . It was the antithesis of every thing I had liked about van halen and all it did was compound what I had always knew .
    That although I loved van halen Dave was the bit I liked most .

    As for eeas I could go in for ages about good I thought it was , I probably have done on countless threads .
    Everything about it was just cooler than the opposition because that's what I thought of them now.
    Even the videos , maybe they summed it up best .... They had great songs were colourful , funny and clever .
    5150 songs/videos didn't .
    fuck your fucking framing

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    Quote Originally Posted by indeedido View Post
    I have to tip my hat to the opening song, “Good Enough.” In 1986, we were buying cassette tapes—no skipping tracks, and you started the album on the first song. The first song was the first thing the band wanted you to hear, and in crazy anticipation of only the biggest thing to happen in my 13 years of life at that time, putting in the new Van Halen album, was something of a religious experience. I had no idea what to expect, and by the end of “Good Enough,” I knew that I was going to accept this new VH album with open arms … open arms raised high, with devil horns flying!
    I couldn't agree less.

    From 'Hello Baby' I thought Uh Oh...

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    I've actually never ever listened to a Van Hagar album in its entirety. To me just was a different band, basically a pop rock band. EHHH not my cup of tea, to me it really had nothing to do with Van Halen. That seemed like a young closed minded view but all these years later still feel the same and still have not desire to listen. Just has nothing to do with Van Halen.

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    I listened to the shit out of both of these albums back in '86. As a huge Van Halen fan (and ignorant, naive 14 year old) it truly seemed like the best of both worlds. What can I say... I was a kid. At the time I distinctly remember thinking - and often saying - that EEAS was more Van Halen than Van Haggar's album, but I'll be the first to admit that 5150 got a lot of play at the time, as I was passionate about 3/4 of the lineup. It wasn't until I had a few years and some mileage on me that I began to suspect 5150 wasn't aging well. I didn't listen to it as much as the original 6-pack, and I fucking hated OU812, and only liked about half of Carnal Knowledge. By the time Balance rolled around and its embarrassing videos, I couldn't publicly state I was a Van Halen fan. The Van Haggar cds were garage saled after Dave was back (briefly) in 1996, and I never looked back.

    As far as my kids know, Dave has always been the lead singer for Van Halen, although they understand that they 'had a fight' and he made his own music, but 'then they hugged and became friends again' as my five-year-old says. As for 5150, it was exciting at the time - my first rock concert - and filled the void, but I suspected Van Haggar might make a couple of albums and Dave would be back eventually. As an album, 5150 sounds horrible to my middle-aged ears - in particular Sammy's screeching and inane lyrics, Ed's strange tone, and Al's drums. God... Al's drums. What was he thinking? Anyway, that's my trip down Disappointment Lane for that record. EEAS has held up so much better - sounding like a proper Ted Templeman produced alternate universe Van Halen album that should have been. Yes, I would have liked a couple more songs as it's kind of short - and yes more originals and less covers - but overall it has the balls and sense of swagger and humor that Van Haggar never could capture. Skyscraper - now that's a different story...
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    I can echo the majority of that, Zing.

    I also like how you always spell Bette's last name wrong. It is a snub he deserves ten fold!

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    I don't know if he ever said it publicly I have heard Mick Jones talk about that record and how awful the band was in terms working. The brothers basically wanted to kill each other for some reason and on several occassions Hagar passed out drunk in a chair in the studio. He said they had to rewrite the ltrics over and over and basically spoon feed it line by line to get the vocals done. Also before Mick came into that project there was about three months of work done on 5150 material with Dave. Dave hated the material apparently. Eddie is still Eddie and Mick is genius with melodies etc... so even in that state it a passable pop record, just not a Van Halen record. Nothing about the record was "Van Halen" any ounce of soul, texture, or a darker underpinning was gone as was humor.

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    Not sure I get the "Mick is a genius" part. In what regard? Producing Foreigner albums? Yay for him.

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    No as a songwriter. He is a good producer as well. He isn't Van Halen however. He is a pop melodic guy who tends towards ballads. It may not be someone's cup of tea but as far as writing melodies yes he is one of the best in that regard. Just not sure why that skill was something Van Hagar felt was needed.

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    I'm familiar with his work. Can't say that much of what he churned out as a founding father of the corporate schlock rock movement of the '70s was particularly good. Just an opinion, though.

    Sammy once praised Mick for the way he pushed him to sing out of his range, the way he did on "Dreams".

    "sing more like Lou, Sammy." Genius.

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    Sing more like Lou would be the last thing Mick ever say. More like quick mic him while the ass clown is sober.

    Yes corporate rock is what it became but when that didn't exist when he started. And he is very good at that, no not my cup of tea in large doses but I know Mick's instincts as an artist are superb even if stylisically not really a fit for Van Halen.

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    I just still don't get the comparison. Van Hagar just was a different genre just the same name on the cover.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Never was View Post
    Sing more like Lou would be the last thing Mick ever say. More like quick mic him while the ass clown is sober.
    I shouldn't have put quotes on that. Was being facetious. He did push him out of his comfort zone range though. He said so in his truthful book. More facetiousness. That line I'd believe, though.

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    Mick isn't exactly subtle with his words, but is a classy guy.
    Hagar gets way too much credit as a singer. He is very consistent I give him that but his range isn't great and to me just lacks texture.

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    When you consider how dysfuntional Foreigner was as a band by that point for Van Hagar to be a train wreck to him says a lot.

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    Sammy is Michael Bolton with Dee Snyder hair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Never was View Post
    Mick isn't exactly subtle with his words, but is a classy guy.
    Hagar gets way too much credit as a singer. He is very consistent I give him that but his range isn't great and to me just lacks texture.
    That is why the argument of Sammy being a better singer than Dave makes me laugh.Sammy's voice natural register is a little higher but his range is very limited.Dave has a much better command of the lower register and there are very few people who can scream the way Dave can.Sammy is probably more consistent than Dave,But Dave is a Frontman so singing is only half of what he is about.Dave is an entertainer,Sammy is not.
    Last edited by Dave's Bitch; 01-10-2013 at 03:37 PM.
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    I'd have to give the nod to Vai here - from 5150 Ed's playing/writing felt over-thought and lacked the spontaneity of the older records (which was the source of its power/energy to these ears).

    Much as I think Vai overplayed (even by his standards) in Dave's band, it's so colourful that it works as a natural foil to Dave's character.
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    2004 would've been the perfect year for a reunion tour of the EEAS band.

    Dave was still in top shape during that period --- doing split jumps off the drum riser --- and Vai and Sheehan could've churned out a couple new tracks.

    It would've been funny as hell to see Dave and his boys absolutely destroying Van Hagar that summer --- with Fatty Ronald McDonald and his do-rag and Mr. Samurai Meth Head embarrassing themselves every night. Just like shooting fish in a barrel.




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    Ed wore orange pajama pants onstage during the 5150 tour. Vai wore purple sequined pants for the EEAS tour. Vai wins, no question.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DONNIEP View Post
    Ed wore orange pajama pants onstage during the 5150 tour. Vai wore purple sequined pants for the EEAS tour. Vai wins, no question.
    I'd give Ed a hall pass if they were orange. Those MC Hamma pajamas were pink!

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    You know what you will get with Sammy he is more reliable vocally than Dave.
    Now Dave is a high standard deviation but vocally when he is on his best game I actually think he has the better voice. Now getting Dave at his best vocally is a challenge at times but he always has his personality. Hagar on his best nights is still at best the Jimmy Buffet character of melodic rock.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DLR Bridge View Post
    I also like how you always spell Bette's last name wrong.
    I spelled it wrong?

    sammy-hagar-cruisin-and-boozin.jpg

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    And so did his label at the time. Good find.

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    I shunned 5150 for a couple of months after I listened to it twice and read the lyrics. I was ready to bury Van Halen as a current band at the time. Eat 'Em And Smile was much better...no big pop sappy ballads but a better rock record.

    It used to really piss me off to hear Ed and Al sling shit about Dave...and for Sam and Mike to join right in there...looking back all of these years Al is the only one that Ed hasn't f'd yet. It certainly brings up some negative feelings for me.

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    I liked 5150. But I never thought of it as Van Halen. Just like Sabbath without Ozzy. Sure the name is the same to move product but the band isn't. Not even close. I still like about half of 5150. But Eat Em kills it on all levels. That album is the only reason I was fine with Dave quiting Van Halen. It's a classic 80's album. One of the best. It's better than some of the stuff he did with Ed. I wish he would put out a dvd of that tour. Vai & Billy were shit hot !

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    EEAS is far superior as an album, and the tour was magnificent. Still one of the best shows I've ever seen. Will never forget them opening with "Shy Boy" - Billy and Steve running around like baby gibbons while pulling off those incredible unison runs. They finish the song, Dave goes "So, what d'ya think of the new band so far?"

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    Dave's biggest mistake was breaking up the EEAS team before making at least 3 albums.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lesfunk View Post
    Dave's biggest mistake was breaking up the EEAS team before making at least 3 albums.
    I'd agree with that if Skyscraper sounded more like EEAS II. Besides, he didn't break them up. One by one, they went bye bye on their own.

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    He broke them up sure as shit. Skyscraper: No Ted Templeman and Billy Sheehan in name only. Sheehan was castrated on that record to the degree that any session player could have done the job.
    If that isn't breaking up the team I don't know what is.

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    As much as I love Ed, I have to go with Steve. This guy means more than Ed to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lesfunk View Post
    He broke them up sure as shit. Skyscraper: No Ted Templeman and Billy Sheehan in name only. Sheehan was castrated on that record to the degree that any session player could have done the job.
    If that isn't breaking up the team I don't know what is.
    Yeah, you're right. And Vai was none too thrilled about Brett Tuggle being added to the stew, as well. An EEAS II was attainable. Not sure why Dave didn't apply the 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' ethic.

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    I think DLR realized the 'if it ain't broke...' thing too little too late. ALAE is more like EEAS II, but by then grunge was in and metal was fading fast. Skyscraper was the time to strike while the iron was hot, but that album will remain a giant 'coulda-been' for me. Some of the best songs Dave ever wrote in my opinion - but overproduced to the point of being barely listenable (yet somehow STILL managed to be better than OU812!)

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    I couldn't agree with you more, Zing...

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    I'd love to hear Knucklebones and Bottom Line in EEAS fashion. Sans keeberds ervcurse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DLR Bridge View Post
    I'd love to hear Knucklebones and Bottom Line in EEAS fashion. Sans keeberds ervcurse.
    Yeah Knucklebones is bad ass. Killer riff and DLR sounds awesome - too bad they decided to mix about four different takes together. Never been a huge fan of Dave singing with himself. One if my biggest gripes with his solo albums.

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    I love the "oomf... oomf... oomf" Dave does along with the beat in the beginning of Knucklebones. I envision him busting down a front door, shoulder first, when I hear that. The damn keyboards soften the entrance, though.

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    I remember buying 5150 when it came out. I was 14. I listsned to it once and took it back to the music store and said this sucks. I want my money back. They said I know and gave me my $7 back. True story!

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    Quote Originally Posted by indeedido View Post
    I remember buying 5150 when it came out. I was 14. I listsned to it once and took it back to the music store and said this sucks. I want my money back. They said I know and gave me my $7 back. True story!

    You actually aren't bullshitting.

    There was a little strip mall store near me that would fully refund opened CD's and software up until 1999 when it closed. No questions asked. I was flabbergasted.

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