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Thread: "Guitar Center Wants To Pay Their Slaves Fairly".....Said No One Ever.....

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    "Guitar Center Wants To Pay Their Slaves Fairly".....Said No One Ever.....

    http://www.thenation.com/blog/174843...#axzz2XwLnC5uC

    Guitar Center: Prices So Low, Employees Can't Survive on Wages
    Allison Kilkenny on June 18, 2013 - 8:05 AM ET


    At the end of May, employees at Guitar Center’s flagship store in Manhattan overwhelmingly voted to form a union of its fifty-seven retail workers. The national Retail, Wholesale and Department Store Union (RWDSU) organized the win, marking what the union hoped would be the first of many such votes around New York City and the rest of the country.

    Brendon Clark, 28, was one of the workers who voted to unionize. Clark has been working at Guitar Center for four years.

    “It’s been a long time coming,” said Clark. “Our grievances have been at play for at least six or seven years, the main thing being how we’re paid and our compensation. No one ever considered a union, and a lot of that is because of how the company has not necessarily blocked unions, but just kind of blocked any way for employees to maybe press on the issue.”

    Clark was hired about a year after Bain Capital bought Guitar Center in 2007, and he says a regular sales person at the store used to have a lot of autonomy, but things started to go awry when Internet sales for guitars and other equipment boosted and workers suddenly had to compete with giant online retailers like Amazon.com. Guitar Center tailored its marketing and discounting to represent the way the market was turning, and workers like Clark say their hourly wage and commission structure have been slashed since the investment firm took over.

    “What they started to do was offer sale prices all the time, price-matching Amazon, and basically doing whatever they can to make sure the customer leaves satisfied at the lowest price possible, but with the company doing that, in order for that demand to be met, they have to cut away at pricing, which cuts away at profit, which ultimately cuts away at our pay check because we’re 100 percent commission employees,” he says.

    “We’re paid on a pay structure that existed before the Internet existed. The company has modified their strategy in marketing and their web presence, and just about every way they do business, except for how they pay their employees,” said Clark.

    Within the past three years, Guitar Center has rapidly expanded. Four years ago, the chain had 200 stores and it was very rare for the company to open another one. Within the past six months alone, it has opened ten stores.

    “We’ve seen more stores open, we’ve seen more emphasis on dot com sales, and they were neglecting existing stores and existing markets that were profitable, and the number-one profiting store is Manhattan, and it was falling by the wayside,” Clark says.

    Guitar Center management was less enthusiastic about the vote.

    “We always want to have a working environment that our folks love, and it’s unfortunate that we now have a third party involved,” says Dennis Haffeman, executive vice president of human resources for Guitar Center, a $2.1 billion retail chain owned by Bain Capital. “We’re constantly listening to our employees’ needs so that Guitar Center can be the best work environment in the music industry and, quite frankly, the best in retail.”

    But workers don’t seem to love the working environment at all, which is why they called for the vote. RWDSU started working with workers in late 2012 after workers approached the union complaining of worsening compensation.

    Clark describes a payment system called “fading,” which he calls “a way for the company to get away with paying us less without it making it seem like they do.”

    Workers at Guitar Center make the legal minimum wage plus commission, but they aren’t paid that commission until they sell a certain amount of product against their base pay.

    “Where that becomes an issue is during slower months, like this month for example, or if a sales person has a bad month, which everyone eventually does. Sometimes you don’t sell enough product and you ultimately don’t make enough money for the company to cover minimum wage, even though you’ve worked full-time and you’ve showed up to work on time and did your job to its fullest, you’re making minimum wage that month,” he says.

    That’s problematic for a number of reasons. All the money workers make in heavily trafficked months, they hang on to in preparation for months ahead. There’s never a consistent pay check. They’re never fully sure if what they receive in pay is going to cover their bills, because minimum wage in New York City is extremely low.

    “We’re in this gray area where we have solid jobs, which are hard to get in New York, and we have benefits, but at the same time, we’re not making enough money to survive, and a lot of us end up selling our instruments to make rent and living off of credit cards.”

    And the problem isn’t just in New York.

    “There were many weeks where I only ate one meal a day, sometimes none, due to low wages,” said another Guitar Center employee in a Southern state who asked to remain anonymous out of concern for their job. “Some brands pay more than others. Successful sales people sell what makes money, not what is truly needed.”

    “It’s a mistake to just focus on Amazon. It’s also Sweetwater, Musician’s Friend, owned by Guitar Center, Direct Factory Sales, and now even Best Buy is selling gear. There is no Internet tax either, so sometimes you have to reduce the price of the product by the tax rate to match your own website. This can often be the entire commission,” the employee added, saying Guitar Center staff are increasingly treated like free consultants.

    “Sometimes people buy products on Ebay and then pose as potential buyers, just to get educated.”

    The customers come in, ask about a mixer they bought online, get advice from staff, and then leave.

    “It’s a dying art and the business is cut-throat.”

    “The commission-only model has been a struggle for many of the workers. Some workers make as little as $800 a month while living in New York City, one the most expensive cities to live in,” says RWDSU’s Janna Pea. “Also, with the commission-only model, it creates loopholes for the company. If you have an eight-hour shift, but you spend three of those hours teaching a class, you’re losing money because you’re not on the floor selling products. It’s a tough situation for someone to have to depend on a commission-only wage.”

    Despite the successful vote at the Manhattan store, it’s difficult to get Guitar Center workers to go on-record about the unionization effort. Clark explained there have been rumors of retribution by management at a Guitar Center in San Francisco where workers voted to unionize.

    “It didn’t go through successfully for a number of reasons, but a number of sales staff that were vocal during that vote, about five or six months afterwards, they no longer worked there. The company tells us they weren’t fired for supporting the union, but they were fired for other tedious things,” he says.

    In Manhattan, workers are protected now because they have unionized and they’re in the midst of formulating a contract, so Guitar Center wouldn’t be able to edge out employees without there being some kind of legal repercussions.

    But before the vote, Clark said people were scared.

    “[Workers] are afraid to be vocal about their concerns in wanting to unionize because they’re afraid that if they were to do that, management would start looking at them for every possible thing that they could do wrong and fire them for those reasons.”

    Clark thought it was worth the risk.

    “A lot of people have lost sight of the good unions do, mainly building what is now the middle class today,” he says.

    Clark did everything he was supposed to do. He graduated college even though it buried him debt. He immediately looked for a job, but couldn’t find a high-paying one in the terrible market that is oversaturated with college graduates.

    “Hard-working, educated people have nothing coming their way because capitalism has driven things into either the high end or the low end. When it all comes down to maximizing profit and the bottom line, there’s no protection for the employee at that point. It’s all focused on the company and how much profit they’re drawing. The less they have to pay someone, the more profit they’re going to make, and the more they can grow their business,” he says.

    Clark describes an environment at Guitar Center where there is a hard divide between upper management and Bain Capital, where, he says, “my word means nothing at the end of the day.”

    “I feel like the only way to be heard is to have an actual support where we can all collectively sit down and talk things out and I have federal protection. Otherwise, there’s nothing for me. There’s nothing that will make my voice heard.”
    Last edited by Hardrock69; 07-02-2013 at 09:42 PM.

  2. #2
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    These greedy ass bastards (guitar center/WalMart/that right wing pizza douchebag and others) need to take a lesson from Henry Ford (no relation)....

    Back in the day, some of his fellow "businessmen" (ie. cheap greedy bastards) thought Henry was crazy for paying his employees $5/day (which was good money at the time).

    Old Henry was hardly a Liberal Progressive (quite the opposite actually, given his later mutual admiration thing with Hitler) but he understood it was simply good business to pay your employees enough to be able to afford to buy your own fucking products.
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    Some workers make as little as $800 a month while living in New York City, one the most expensive cities to live in
    Here's a novel idea: live where it's affordable. Or, don't take a job that won't cover your monthly nut.

    Sure, I dislike Guitar Center as much as the next hack basement guitarist, but jesus...if it doesn't pay well, get out or STFU.
    Writing In All Proper Case Takes Extra Time, Is Confusing To Read, And Is Completely Pointless.

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    Nice to see their fucked up "fade" system finally exposed.

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    Problem is that people go into music stores, get the advice, try the product and then go home and buy it online.

    Half the music shops here have shut in the last few years...

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    Quote Originally Posted by twonabomber View Post
    Here's a novel idea: live where it's affordable. Or, don't take a job that won't cover your monthly nut.
    Not as easy as it sounds in New York or L.A.

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    I do ALL my research on-line. If I go to GC or Sam Ash I rarely ask a question. I will play something though. I find the GC guys are about as knowledgeable as car salesmen.

    There was a mom n' pop music store I bought frequently from, always got a good deal and good advice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jhale667 View Post
    Not as easy as it sounds in New York or L.A.
    Reminds me of the old Kinison bit about living in the desert. Stay and starve, or GTFO.

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    Sesh....that is happening with everything......

    Amazing....I just discovered there are actually 4 CD Warehouse stores in Nashville......I had thought all the retailers were gone, after FYE disappeared.......

    There is a Sears store not too far away.....nobody goes there....you go in there any time of day or night.....no such thing as a crowd in that place.

    I am sure partly that is due to the net.

    What is ironic is when the brick and mortar stores close, it FORCES people to buy from the net, because they can't get whatever it is they are looking for locally.

    So...it is a self-reinforcing vicious circle....

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    Others here will have a better idea than me but my impression is that back in the late 80s early 90s when I would spend a lot of time in guitar stores there was a really big variation in quality in the mid priced guitars of the same model.

    Now it seems that there is much better quality control which encourages people to buy online. Back in the day I would never consider it for a guitar but I've bought a few guitars on EBay and Gumtree this year and it's worked out very well. Of course with stuff like electronics it's even less of an issue...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardrock69 View Post
    Sesh....that is happening with everything......

    Amazing....I just discovered there are actually 4 CD Warehouse stores in Nashville......I had thought all the retailers were gone, after FYE disappeared.......

    There is a Sears store not too far away.....nobody goes there....you go in there any time of day or night.....no such thing as a crowd in that place.

    I am sure partly that is due to the net.

    What is ironic is when the brick and mortar stores close, it FORCES people to buy from the net, because they can't get whatever it is they are looking for locally.

    So...it is a self-reinforcing vicious circle....
    It's sad in a way.

    In the UK there was a company with 3-400 stores selling cameras that went down the toilet recently.

    They were the place for upmarket cameras, you could go there talk to expert staff who would be smart people that maybe did some professional photography at the weekends doing some weddings or whatever. When they started to get squeezed by the internet, they reduced wages, good staff left and all you had were people who knew less than the customer.

    At that point there was little reason for them to exist, you're paying a 20% mark up to get the camera that day rather than in two days mail order.

    The same thing is happening with musical instruments.

    As for record stores we're down to about 3 for a population of 500 000, I had to wait a couple of weeks before ADKOT filtered its way down to the local large superstore WAL Mart type place before I could buy it on CD.

    Which I did, about 3 weeks after stealing it off the internet...
    Last edited by Seshmeister; 07-02-2013 at 10:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by twonabomber View Post
    I do ALL my research on-line. If I go to GC or Sam Ash I rarely ask a question. I will play something though. I find the GC guys are about as knowledgeable as car salesmen.

    There was a mom n' pop music store I bought frequently from, always got a good deal and good advice.
    The thing I hate about the Mall Centers is when the hipster-too cool-for-you dude talks down to me. I've been lucky because somehow my local mom and pop music store matches GC's prices! So it's a win win! I'm supporting a local store and I get first name service!

    Granted, I do buy some stuff online but I'm willing to spend 20 or 30 bucks more to support a local business!
    Quote Originally Posted by vandeleur View Post
    E- Jesus . Playing both sides because he didnt understand the argument in the first place

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    Yeah I think the very least you should do is tell them the online price you have seen and ask if they can get close to it.

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    For sure and if they get within a few bucks of it! Buy local!

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    yes; we the customers are the only ones who can change things.

    here in oz, the wholesalers are all too aware of the problem as well. if a customer can source product from os at a price less than the aussie rrp the wholesaler loses a sale, too.

    so they've restructured their model... bulk buy discounts, payment plans, other methods to encourage local business.
    if anyone's interested, here's a rough example of how it works here.

    the rrp is about 33% higher than wholesale. typically, the retailer will then be offered a further discount of between 5 and 25%, depending on volume and product. then a further 5% if settlement occurs within 30 days.

    so the smart mom and pop store, efficiently running, can have enough wiggle room to compete with the net. if you know your shit, and treat your customers well, it's survivable.

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    Yep, Yep and yup


    How's their prices on tuners

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwame k View Post
    Yep, Yep and yup


    How's their prices on tuners
    unbeatable!!! tuner

  19. #19
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    Funny thing is that I was looking on eBay for strings recently, I wanted some Elixer strings for a guitar I don't play very much. I noticed the cheapest place in the UK was actually a store just 6 miles away who were selling them for $8.

    I jumped in the car and when I asked for them guy says that's $12, $8 was just for online purchases.

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    the smart ones negotiated freight deals in the early days, too. 30 plus years with one company is totally worth it.

    i've seen people pay thirty bucks freight on a hundred buck item. that aint good economy.

  21. #21
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    People who work on 100% commission selling anything are crazy. Especially after 2008. Unless you're living at home with Ma and Pa rent free, I don't see how anyone can survive with that kind of job.

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    That's basically anyone who is self employed and yes it can be challenging.

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    Well, that's a pretty big umbrella you've got over the self employed. An independent contractor like a plumber or electrician has a better chance at selling the service they can provide.

    I'm saying that working on 100% commission selling Elixir strings along with luxury items like Ed's over priced Frankenstriped pedals is nothing short of craziness, especially in lean times.

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    "Selling strings, selling God, the numbers look the same on their credit cards."

  25. #25
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    They might think they're selling God...

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    Quote Originally Posted by DLR Bridge View Post
    I'm saying that working on 100% commission selling Elixir strings along with luxury items like Ed's over priced Frankenstriped pedals is nothing short of craziness, especially in lean times.


    Agree totally. It was rough, but could be done back in the day - I made decent money. However, my friends still working music retail (I got out after a brief managerial stint well over a dozen years ago, never looked back) are hating it these days... I feel bad for them.

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    Yeah, sales people are hurting all over, no matter what they're selling. The salesman with my company often look as though they want to run right through the big conference room window, but we're only on the 4th floor and that's not quite high enough to absolutely get the job done.

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    Two-story building here, and totally agree. I almost miss commission checks sometimes, but not the daily in-your-face stress level of any sales gig.

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