'Van Halen Rising' Book Chat with Greg Renoff - Oct. 17th, 9pm ET

[PETE'S BROTHER]

webmaster@rotharmy.com
Nov 2 at 4:32 PM

To

ieatsomething@yahoo.com

Message body
Dear former, present and future Roth Army participants:

[Full Bug]

Late to the party, but great interview guys! And calling out Von and his 'but not in the rain!' buggy in the interview was a nice touch....

[PETE'S BROTHER]

Late to the party, but great interview guys! And calling out Von and his 'but not in the rain!' buggy in the interview was a nice touch....

[Kristy]

Kristy has some thoughts:

Yeah, so this book came in the mail a few weeks back. I read bits here and there then suddenly I remembered what Morrissey once spoke, "it says nothing about me and my life" so I through the pile of shit in the trash. Then I cursed Von for ever recommending this tripe. The money could have gone to much better if not more practical shit - like weed.

So again, fuck you, Von.

Hope you have an awful Thanksgiving.

[Seshmeister]

Kristy has some thoughts:

Yeah, so this book came in the mail a few weeks back. I read bits here and there then suddenly I remembered what Morrissey once spoke, "it says nothing about me and my life" so I through the pile of shit in the trash.

Yeah that sounds like that racist talent vacuum Morrissey or is that your own dedication to Vogon poetry?

[FORD]

I was only a casual Smiths fan at best, but I really thought "Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ" was a great line, actually.

[Kristy]

Yeah that sounds like that racist talent vacuum Morrissey or is that your own dedication to Vogon poetry?

What would YOU know about either?

[Mushroom]

Is this book available in Hard Back!?

[VAiN]

Is this book available in Hard Back!?

It isn't, but if you buy 3 of them you can make your own hardcover.

[Mushroom]

It isn't, but if you buy 3 of them you can make your own hardcover.

thanks, I knew I could count on you guys for the best advice!

[twonabomber]

Any of you cheap bastards that don't have the book yet, Amazon is running a special through the 30th. Promo code HOLIDAY30 will take 30% off any physical book Amazon sells, up to $10. Code can only be used once.

[Von Halen]

Greg is also running a special on his site. $50 for the book, both shirts, koozie and bookmark. That is $30 off. Great deal for all that!

[PETE'S BROTHER]

webmaster@rotharmy.com
Nov 25 at 4:21 PM

To

@yahoo.com

[DONNIEP]

I got the email again today too, lol

[Angel]

I have no idea what email address I registered with...

[PETE'S BROTHER]

http://talkclassicrock.com/threads/p...ck-roots.6511/

[PETE'S BROTHER]

If you weren't able to attend in person, here's your chance, via this link http://www.vhnd.com/2015/12/12/full-...ted-templeman/, to see and hear what we discussed about Van Halen's beginnings and Ted's role in helping the band reach the heights of superstardom.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

If you weren't able to attend in person, here's your chance, via this link http://www.vhnd.com/2015/12/12/full-...ted-templeman/, to see and hear what we discussed about Van Halen's beginnings and Ted's role in helping the band reach the heights of superstardom.

Yeah, highly recommended watch....

It's another indication of just how much DLR's input placing VH's legacy as a legendary band...

EVH would have made VH a good band by himself, he just changed the game that much.....

But without DLR's input, they may have very well have just been only that, a good band, instead of one of the greatest....

[vandeleur]

Got the book from Santa, really enjoying it, fills in a lot of the details of the early days. Plus makes you wanna go to a backyard party

[Terry]

Yeah, highly recommended watch....

It's another indication of just how much DLR's input placing VH's legacy as a legendary band...

EVH would have made VH a good band by himself, he just changed the game that much.....

But without DLR's input, they may have very well have just been only that, a good band, instead of one of the greatest....

It'd be hard to imagine neither Roth nor Eddie having some degree of success in the music business as artists/performers, even if they hadn't been in the same band together, although I suppose it's possible...perhaps slightly more in Dave's case, because indeed what Ed was doing guitar-wise WAS a game changer.

I do remember back in those 6-pack days where you couldn't (outside of Creem/Circus/Hit Parader) get a rock critic to say a good word about Van Halen other than that of Ed's guitar work, because the consensus was that Roth was a show-off buffoon who couldn't sing and the band were wasting Eddie's talent on party rock music. And those same critics slobbered all over themselves to pour accolades over Van Hagar when 5150 came out. To my ears (keeping in mind that back then Eddie's guitar work was the primary draw for me), once EEAS was released there was no question as to where the spirit and fury of CVH went after Roth split.

[Terry]

Got the book from Santa, really enjoying it, fills in a lot of the details of the early days. Plus makes you wanna go to a backyard party

Yeah, I got my copy on the way, too. From what I've heard, it's a really good book. Probably the best one about the band in terms of having been written by somebody who wasn't in the group. The other one that came out several years back, Everybody Wants Some, was a letdown: just a recycled, Ed-centric jumble of old, previously published interviews (that were often utilized incorrectly in terms of the snippets being quoted and the year the book was focusing on at the time).

The EWS book was a ham-fisted, amateurish attempt. Van Halen Rising looks like it will be much better.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Yeah, I got my copy on the way, too. From what I've heard, it's a really good book. Probably the best one about the band in terms of having been written by somebody who wasn't in the group. The other one that came out several years back, Everybody Wants Some, was a letdown: just a recycled, Ed-centric jumble of old, previously published interviews (that were often utilized incorrectly in terms of the snippets being quoted and the year the book was focusing on at the time).

The EWS book was a ham-fisted, amateurish attempt. Van Halen Rising looks like it will be much better.

Oh, it's night and day, Terry... You'll see after one or two chapters of VHR....

While I don't disparage anyone that's previously put out any sort of Van Halen book, 'case even the lousy ones entail a shitload of work to publish it, but VHR has re-written to book (no pun intended) on Van Halen documentaries....

Now, the challenge to Greg is to write the '78-'85 era, if he indeed decides to do it....

[DLR Bridge]

I read it when it first came out and was as thrilled as I figured I'd be. Now that the stress of the holidays is over, I'm looking forward to diving in for round 2. I'm going to take notes this time as I think there are particular topics that deserve their own thread here. Terry, enjoy!

[VAiN]

Yeah, I got my copy on the way, too. From what I've heard, it's a really good book. Probably the best one

The EWS book was a ham-fisted, amateurish attempt. Van Halen Rising looks like it will be much better.

I mean.. Just the cover alone is superior!

[Dan]

Great Book So far.

Thanks To Pete's Brother for The Book.

HMMMMMMMm.......Even Ted Templeman signed My Book.

Some Crazy fooker Also Signed it.........No Pants.

Even Mark Stone signed it on page 125.

[vandeleur]

Great Book So far.

Thanks To Pete's Brother for The Book.

HMMMMMMMm.......Even Ted Templeman signed My Book.

Some Crazy fooker Also Signed it.........No Pants.

Even Mark Stone signed it on page 125.

That's pretty cool

[WARF]

Roth was a true underdog...

He was never a technical singer, I could name hundreds of other singers who have better range and a pure singer voice....

What made Dave a legend was the charisma and attitude behind his vocals, and his superior lyricism....

Plus, he was all the superlatives.... He's a rock god, intelligent, great interviewer, greatest front man etc etc

Van Halen was intelligent rock, hidden behind spandex, sex and drugs....

Never about politics, religion or any other of that faggy shit.....

[atomicpnk47]

Charisma and attitude pretty much nails it Warf

[big fatty]

I strongly , sincerely, and firmly truly believe without hesitation that David Roth fully despises, abhores, and completely resents his heavy metal fanbase.

Most folks who read this site are aware of Dave's interviews throughout the years. His intelligence, world wide perspective and philosophy of life. The way he lives. The life he's lead. Who he is. Who he's been. Who he is now.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

Never about politics, religion or any other of that faggy shit.....

amen

[PETE'S BROTHER]

Great Book So far.

Thanks To Pete's Brother for The Book.

HMMMMMMMm.......Even Ted Templeman signed My Book.

Some Crazy fooker Also Signed it.........No Pants.

Even Mark Stone signed it on page 125.

did any of the RA group sign it? don't know why i wouldn't have thought of that?

[vandeleur]

That would have been cool especially vain .

[PETE'S BROTHER]

That would have been cool especially vain .

i got his on mine fo sho.

[Terry]

Oh, it's night and day, Terry... You'll see after one or two chapters of VHR....

While I don't disparage anyone that's previously put out any sort of Van Halen book, 'case even the lousy ones entail a shitload of work to publish it, but VHR has re-written to book (no pun intended) on Van Halen documentaries....

Now, the challenge to Greg is to write the '78-'85 era, if he indeed decides to do it....

It's a really good read. We all knew the basic skeleton of the pre-1978 years, but I doubt many (if any) of us knew close to the amount of detail in the book. New interviews from sources who were actually there when it all happened (as opposed to just utilizing quotes of band members from old interviews which I've already read), virtually none of the pics in the book were any I'd ever seen before, a compelling narrative that makes you feel like you were transported back to that time and place.

Not easy to write a book about Van Halen that ends up being such a page-turner, but Van Halen Rising pulled it off. I particularly enjoyed the story about Ed overdosing on PCP and multiple interviews illustrating Roth's persistence in wriggling his way into the band when neither of the Van Halens particularly wanted him to join.

[chuckjitsu]

...Roth's persistence in wriggling his way into the band when neither of the Van Halens particularly wanted him to join.

That struck me too. We'd all heard the "cheaper to have him in the band than keep renting his PA" story, but that oversimplified how Dave actually ended up in the band. I also didn't realize how truly vital Dave was in the early days to the band's ultimate success. The band's rise through the club ranks was also much more of a slog than I realized. It made me wonder how Dave could quit after so much hard work and effort to get where he and the band ultimately got. With the help of hindsight, perhaps the very thing that was a key component to their success (Dave's personality) made a split/implosion inevitable. (Not that the Van Halens aren't culpable as well, but Dave is the one who chose to leave)

[DONNIEP]

That struck me too. We'd all heard the "cheaper to have him in the band than keep renting his PA" story, but that oversimplified how Dave actually ended up in the band. I also didn't realize how truly vital Dave was in the early days to the band's ultimate success. The band's rise through the club ranks was also much more of a slog than I realized. It made me wonder how Dave could quit after so much hard work and effort to get where he and the band ultimately got. With the help of hindsight, perhaps the very thing that was a key component to their success (Dave's personality) made a split/implosion inevitable. (Not that the Van Halens aren't culpable as well, but Dave is the one who chose to leave)

Well, as far as Dave splitting, we're kinda to blame for that. I'd bet we all bought the CFTH EP. Of course, there will be a lot of people who will say they didn't buy it because they were dead set against Roth doing anything outside of the band. Bullshit.

Dave, whether intentionally or not, put out the feelers with that four track cassette and it sold over a million copies right out of the box. And three of the songs were songs almost none of us had ever heard before. Or didn't realize we'd heard them. Nobody here was running around singing Easy Street or Coconut Grove before that record dropped. So we showed Dave that the audience was there. And then the videos were hits. And then we had the perfect storm:

Dave has a vehicle to continue the visual and put out new music - via the movie

Ed and Al are pretty much drunk as shit all the time and refuse to work

Dave refuses to wait to work because he literally is the biggest rock star on the planet and he's seen he can be successful without the band.

The rest is history...

[Terry]

That struck me too. We'd all heard the "cheaper to have him in the band than keep renting his PA" story, but that oversimplified how Dave actually ended up in the band. I also didn't realize how truly vital Dave was in the early days to the band's ultimate success. The band's rise through the club ranks was also much more of a slog than I realized. It made me wonder how Dave could quit after so much hard work and effort to get where he and the band ultimately got. With the help of hindsight, perhaps the very thing that was a key component to their success (Dave's personality) made a split/implosion inevitable. (Not that the Van Halens aren't culpable as well, but Dave is the one who chose to leave)

What the book concludes is that indeed Eddie's guitar playing was a huge draw, but left to their own devices the Van Halens would have gladly focused on replicating the excesses of 60s rock (long solos and elongated technical displays). All of that would have been fine for high school talent shows and backyard keggers, but wasn't going to get them slots playing clubs. Whatever Roth's shortcomings on a technical level as far as singing went, he made up for it in other ways.

No question Eddie was a monster guitar player. What set Eddie apart from a lot of his peers and later his imitators was that Eddie was well-rounded. Eddie could write. It was the SONGS that set Van Halen and Eddie apart.

Around 1984 or so going forward, there was a bumper-crop of flash guitar players who burst onto the scene. Some of them could, on a technical level, do things I actually doubt Eddie would have been able to pull off short of a LOT of practice. Am thinking along the lines of Malmsteen, Gilbert and MacAlpine (and to a slightly lesser extent Vai and Satriani). None of those guys ever really came up with material that had nearly as much appeal to non-musicians/fans who don't play guitar as Van Halen did. And that's what makes the difference. You can have a focused appeal on gear-heads/amateur shredders by wanking out one brilliant technical display after another, but at the end of the day it is SONGS that separate shredders from songwriters.

Ed could blaze with the best of them, but he had that fantastic knack for coming up with all those memorable hooks, riffs and tunes and balancing his technical prowess within the context of great songs. Contrast that with, say, George Lynch: wonderful guitar player but not nearly the songwriter Eddie was.

[chuckjitsu]

Well, as far as Dave splitting, we're kinda to blame for that. I'd bet we all bought the CFTH EP. Of course, there will be a lot of people who will say they didn't buy it because they were dead set against Roth doing anything outside of the band. Bullshit.

Dave, whether intentionally or not, put out the feelers with that four track cassette and it sold over a million copies right out of the box. And three of the songs were songs almost none of us had ever heard before. Or didn't realize we'd heard them. Nobody here was running around singing Easy Street or Coconut Grove before that record dropped. So we showed Dave that the audience was there. And then the videos were hits. And then we had the perfect storm:

Dave has a vehicle to continue the visual and put out new music - via the movie

Ed and Al are pretty much drunk as shit all the time and refuse to work

Dave refuses to wait to work because he literally is the biggest rock star on the planet and he's seen he can be successful without the band.

The rest is history...

The irony is that it was Dave's success in Van Halen that made that all possible. If unknown shlub Dave Roth puts out CFTH, does anybody care? Does a movie studio agree to make a movie with same unknown shlub? Nope. And I think you're exactly right as to how the perfect storm played out. With the luxury of hindsight, I'm betting Dave would make some different choices in '85.

[chuckjitsu]

What the book concludes is that indeed Eddie's guitar playing was a huge draw, but left to their own devices the Van Halens would have gladly focused on replicating the excesses of 60s rock (long solos and elongated technical displays). All of that would have been fine for high school talent shows and backyard keggers, but wasn't going to get them slots playing clubs. Whatever Roth's shortcomings on a technical level as far as singing went, he made up for it in other ways.

No question Eddie was a monster guitar player. What set Eddie apart from a lot of his peers and later his imitators was that Eddie was well-rounded. Eddie could write. It was the SONGS that set Van Halen and Eddie apart.

Around 1984 or so going forward, there was a bumper-crop of flash guitar players who burst onto the scene. Some of them could, on a technical level, do things I actually doubt Eddie would have been able to pull off short of a LOT of practice. Am thinking along the lines of Malmsteen, Gilbert and MacAlpine (and to a slightly lesser extent Vai and Satriani). None of those guys ever really came up with material that had nearly as much appeal to non-musicians/fans who don't play guitar as Van Halen did. And that's what makes the difference. You can have a focused appeal on gear-heads/amateur shredders by wanking out one brilliant technical display after another, but at the end of the day it is SONGS that separate shredders from songwriters.

Ed could blaze with the best of them, but he had that fantastic knack for coming up with all those memorable hooks, riffs and tunes and balancing his technical prowess within the context of great songs. Contrast that with, say, George Lynch: wonderful guitar player but not nearly the songwriter Eddie was.

You're exactly right Terry. Virtuosity without the ability to write good songs is basically uninteresting wankery. Several years ago I read about how great buckethead was, so I listened to a bunch of songs on youtube and it was just one yawner after the next. Yeah, the technical proficiency was there, but the songs were completely uninteresting to me, with the exception of the song Jordan. So yeah, there are guys "better" than Ed from a technical standpoint, but when you factor in the ability to actually write good tunes, Ed comes out on top.

[beavrtek]

Ed could blaze with the best of them, but he had that fantastic knack for coming up with all those memorable hooks, riffs and tunes and balancing his technical prowess within the context of great songs. Contrast that with, say, George Lynch: wonderful guitar player but not nearly the songwriter Eddie was.

Though GL isn't as captivating as EVH to watch, Lynch, imo, writes well. If his 1st solo album (Wicked Sensation) had been released about five years earlier, it would have sold by the truck load. I still believe that that record is one of the best rock records ever made, and Lynch wrote the songs... all of them.