My Take on the Tour, Dave, etc.

[Firebrand]

I have been a Halenite since 1979...bought tix to see the Women & Children first tour, but Dave threw a rod in his back and the show was axed. Finally got to see them on the 1984 tour, felt like I was watching some kind of other-world creatures performing...they seemed almost more than human, if that makes any sense. A meshing of power, show, skill, tension, that-butterflies-in-your-belly oomph...you name it, if had anything to do with what rock is supposed to be and be good, they had it in spades.

Then the split, and Hagar. 5150 (good record, by the way) came out, and I thought, OK, not bad at all. Caught the tour...Sammy (who I like, by the way, too) offered something different live than Dave, but his contribution was more "musical" - for sure not magical.

And therein lies the rub.

Eddie is still producing some great music. Crap, he's the best rock guitarist ever. Rock today doesn't need more music - it needs magic, something it just doesn't have very much of anymore.

That's what this tour, which probably isn't horrible in the grand scheme of things, cannot create. Magic. Pure and simple magic, like we all have seen and heard before. It has never reached that level with Sammy.

Van Halen is not about a bunch of guys getting up there and being all lovey dovey. It's about one guy doing all he can to show the other one up for two hours, and I mean each one of them...pushing each other into the outer limits of comfort and creativity.

It all comes down to this: I fear the chapter we all wanted to read in regard to this band is all over. It will take at least three years to incarnate another incarnation of the band (if that happened), and by that time, too many of us real fans are just not going to give a crap. Hell, so much for THEM being too old - WE will be too old. David Lee, less than a decade away from his 60th birthday? Think about that.

I love what the real Van Halen was - but to be honest with you, I just am not interested in the repaved road this band has to offer. I don't really want to buy any new songs from them, and I won't spend a big chunk of money on something that was already dead before the plug was pulled on it the first time around.

There is a part of me that really aches thinking of what might have been, what could have been. I am shaking my head as I write this...it really hacks me off - but you know, there's too much to life to just sit and stew. I've moved on, and most of you have, too.

I know he will hate reading this, because I have true admiration for him...but I feel sorry for Diamond Dave in a way...again, it's all about what could have been. I know some on here are "happy" for him and feel "good" that he isn't in on what's happening with Eddie and the boys, but I for one am not.

I wish he were right there in the middle of it, grabbing whatever remaining moments that alchemy between them might be able to create.

It's all about the magic, and I fear it has left the building for just about every one of us.

[MUSICMANN]

Right on dude. I am afraid that all that energy and attitude they once had died along time ago, even if some of us here won't admit it. I am one who would love to see the true VH band back togeither, but time is not on their side, or on anyone's side for that matter. The tour that's going on right now will make a lot of money for the boys, but it 's not making the true fans happy. I still believe that they could play all those old tunes and new ones better than they ever did, but the magic was left in their youth and in all those great performances they did back then. You can only be young once and once youth pasts you by, there's no getting it back. The magic that the origional band had doesn't come along very often in the music scene,( very hard to come by these days) they are just not the same band with Sammy, you are right they are more musical, but not at the same time. The only band that had their type of magic was Zepplin, and with all their troubles from what happened to bohnam, even if he would have lived time would have gotten them to, just as it has caught up to VH. Who know's what is in store for the boys, i hope that it will be a full fledged reunion with Dave, That needs to happen before one of the members get's sick or od's or gets killed in a accident. But if one of those things happens, or they never gives us true fans waht we really want, thats life and there's nothing anyone can do about that.

[scottydabodi]

Hail Brother!! Well spoken. The magic is fucking gone. Even if Dave was there, Eddie's heart isn't, and I guess his technique isn't EITHER. He really let himself go down the shitter... damn shame...

[DavidLeeNatra]

amen, brother...I guess the quote from alexis van halen about the attempt to reunite in 2000 wasn't that wrong "it was ill-fated, it never materialized and it just went away..."

and the longer you see that van walton tour going...with sons and daughters...mamas and papas...capris and sandals...you see that dave doesn't fit in this world anymore...the magic has gone...sad but true...there will never be a comeback of the diamond one with the lying durchmen and fatty anthony...

yeah, ed...some things are better left to memories...do you hear your own words?

[DR CHIP]

Ed WAS a great guitar player....

Needs to spend less time blessing water and learn to play fuckin' Unchained right....

[EmpyreLounge44]

great post and i think time is definitly against them in terms of working with DLR again. Everyone here says that Van Halen is DLR but in the same breath say that it was about the two (Ed,DLR) trying to one up the other...as much as you all think VH needs DLR, he needs them just as much. DLR is in the press almost every day that VH plays, but only in a historic sense. He was the singer of VH before being replaced by Sam, etc.

Never caught the band with DLR at the helm and would have liked to...a big part of me doesnt want that to happen now after seeing DLR solo. As bad as all you complain about Sam butchering the old stuff, i can not imagine DLR doing any of the Hagar songs and I know many of you see that as a positive but its just realy dumb and childish that if these are the only two options, then half of the catalog will always be ignored.

[DavidLeeNatra]

well...I can't find anything wrong in ignoring the hagar catalogue...but that is also a reason for the lying dutchmen never reuniting with dave...

[Figs]

Originally posted by EmpyreLounge44
As bad as all you complain about Sam butchering the old stuff, i can not imagine DLR doing any of the Hagar songs and I know many of you see that as a positive but its just realy dumb and childish that if these are the only two options, then half of the catalog will always be ignored.

The Hagar half of the catalog sucks.

[Hollywood Jesus]

Originally posted by EmpyreLounge44
...then half of the catalog will always be ignored.

Trust me, musical history will ignore that half of their catalog as well. Most rock radio stations already do. Not a shot; just the truth.

Vintage Van Halen was such an amazing alignment of the universe that I also doubt these players can ever recapture the Magic. However, I've seen glimpses of it from younger players.

I saw it in the BulletBoys. Unfortunately, I saw it in Nirvana for a season. Nice shot, Kurt. I see a little in The Darkness. You may or may not agree and may have seen others...

But precious few with the talent of Original VH has ever pushed themselves to greater heights.

[EmpyreLounge44]

I can agree with that but you cant just pretend like it didnt happen...everyone agrees that that is what is going to kill this current tour, the whole "pretend the split didnt happen" mentality. One can certainly argue that "Right Now" is VH's biggest commercial hit...and no I don't have sales numbers but I would say that that and "Jump" are the most recognized Halen songs.

I don't see "IT" in the Darkness like you do...and I like them don't get me wrong. I just think the novelty of them will not be able to be maintained. Just look at them now..."Thing Called Love" was played but none of their other tracks have been picked up yet on a mainstream level.

[5150Clown]

It's embarrasing that the younger generation go see this so called "Van Halen". The great band of the late 70's, early 80's. What they'll see is a pathetic version of it.

Today Van Halen is basically Eddie's solo project with Alex drumming away and making sure Eddie doesn't get too drunk,....mike on the puppet strings and a new Jimmy Buffet (I'll agree with everything) Spam.

[Coyote]

Originally posted by Hollywood Jesus
Trust me, musical history will ignore that half of their catalog as well. Most rock radio stations already do. Not a shot; just the truth.

Vintage Van Halen was such an amazing alignment of the universe that I also doubt these players can ever recapture the Magic. However, I've seen glimpses of it from younger players.

I saw it in the BulletBoys. Unfortunately, I saw it in Nirvana for a season. Nice shot, Kurt. I see a little in The Darkness. You may or may not agree and may have seen others...

But precious few with the talent of Original VH has ever pushed themselves to greater heights.

Let's not forget Hanoi Rocks. With Razzle behind the drums, there was more magic than a Siegfried & Roy show.

[DR CHIP]

Sammy created some magic with that banana thing....

[Baby's On Fire]

Originally posted by Coyote
Let's not forget Hanoi Rocks. With Razzle behind the drums, there was more magic than a Siegfried & Roy show.

Right up until Vince Neil killed him.

[Firebrand]

...but rock hasn't really seen magic since U2 exploded on the scene. And that was 20 years ago.

They were completely original, cool, and rocked. Nada since. Nirvana flirted with it, but couldn't sustain.

There has never - NEVER - been anything that touched the original VH lineup for the combination of fun, musicianship, and show - sheer rock "oomph." Not Zep, not Stones, nobody, no how.

[Keeyth]

Originally posted by Firebrand
...but rock hasn't really seen magic since U2 exploded on the scene. And that was 20 years ago.

They were completely original, cool, and rocked. Nada since. Nirvana flirted with it, but couldn't sustain.

There has never - NEVER - been anything that touched the original VH lineup for the combination of fun, musicianship, and show - sheer rock "oomph." Not Zep, not Stones, nobody, no how.

Please PLEASE don't try to compare U2 or even Nirvana to early Van Halen. They may both be great bands, but if you think the magic even came close to VH with Roth, you must not have seen early Van Halen. There has been nothing, I mean NOTHING, (and I've been looking for it) that even comes close to the magic of that band and their onstage performances. David Lee Roth was... ...amazing. Magic. Words don't even describe it correctly...

[Terry]

1996 was a great opportunity for the classic lineup to kick ass again. Those two songs were just a warmup to what could have been.

Didn't happen. Anyone with a brain knows why it didn't.

Have passed the point several years ago of getting psyched over the prospect of the classic lineup reuniting. Last time was in 1999, when Cherone left. Thought Dave would be back in the fold for sure. Turned out all that came of that was another aborted attempt at getting together in 2000.

Dave's solo gigs for the last 5 years have provided enough of an approximation as to what a reunion would have sounded like. Might not have had the stamp of authenticity it would have if Ed, Al and Mike were there, but Ray and Brian did those tunes justice. There's a million Eddie clones out there, but Dave's voice can't be replicated (just ask Sam and Cherone).

Pretty much all I want out of the classic lineup is a 4 to 5 hour DVD chock full of classic live and promo vids. Shit, if all Van Halen's good for are Best Of albums now, they might as well give us the fucking goods.

Might be because I was fortunate enough to catch them live in 1984, but don't really think I could be bothered to see the classic lineup live at $100 a pop. None, and I mean none, of the bands out there today are worth these overinflated ticket prices.

Van Hagar touring this year just boils down to Eddie once again choosing the path of least resistance and maximum satisfaction for a minimum of effort. Much easier than getting a fourth singer, writing an album's worth of new songs and trying to get a record deal to put it out there. Also easier than having to deal with Dave, which Ed's just not capable of. Van Hagar would bring enough people in to see the shows to make the tour lucrative, and the new Greatest Hits (a stunning amount of tracks repeated from the first Greatest Hits) and the three new songs smack of a lack of energy, but it's easier than coming up with something new.

The prospect of Roth reuniting with the band and Van Halen recapturing the essence of what made people dig them in the first place is beyond a long shot, and none of these guys have time to burn anymore.

[Firebrand]

...that VH was pretty much in a league of their own.

I am talking about just any sort of individual statement that still rocked - that's what I mean by magic when I talk about U2. You have to give propers where they are deserved, and that band is amazing. They have yet to produce anything that's total crap, and for a band with a 20-year run, that's almost unheard of.

I really didn't care for Nirvana, but I respect how important they were.

But you are right, and I agree...VH was all that and a whoooole lot more. What a shame.

[scottydabodi]

Are you guys FUCKING KIDDING ME?!??!? Nirvana?!? U2?!?! Someone's on FUCKING DRUGS to compare those guys to VH with DAVE!!! Listen up, Baboon, true Van Halen was the fucking most KICK ASS Rock band of ALL TIME! They're influence is just STAGGERING, they're brilliance live is fucking BANANAS, and they had the Brass Balls that U2 never had... not to mention the FUCKING RULING GUITARIST!! U2 play fucking pussy ass shit that'll puts chicks to sleep, instead of making them wetter than Jenna Jameson in the Shower... "Lemon"??? What a crock!!! Dave would kick ALL U2's asses in a fight, then he'd drink a fifth of Jack, go to Courtney Love's house, and Smack that bitch in the face with a 2x4!! Fuckin' bunch of GODDAMN wusses. AND don't even get me started on the PantyWaste Cobain... Fuck him, and his Crackhead wife! Bullshit songs with the ass kicking potential of Christopher Reeves. DAVE ROCKS, Bozo and Nobrain DON'T- and THAT'S THE DAMNDEST BOTTOM LINE THA I EVER BOTTOM LINED!!!!!!!!!!!!! F-Ray Danniels, and F-Sammy.

[scottydabodi]

True, guys, VH's time to do the right thing is running out... shit, by the time Eddie gets his chops together enough to be up for a tou with DAVE, they'll all be 100!!!

[Firebrand]

...it's best to let this stuff out...don't hold it in. Breathe...1-2...1-2...that's it...now, tell us about your childhood...

Again, just to reiterate here - I agree that VH was on top of Everest as far as the total package is concerned. No argument there.

And, I in no way am comparing those other bands with The Boys.

However, with that said, you'd have to have your head shoved into an orifice to not see that there have been VERY VERY few bands since VH hit the scene that revolutionized what we know as rock, changed the face of it. U2 did, without a doubt.

I agree with you on Cobain - a loser. But their music was different, it rocked, and it changed rock.

That takes ab-so-lute-ly nada away from VH. They were the top of the food chain. Now they're just spam.

Did I say that??!? :eek:

[scottydabodi]

Sorry for calling you a Baboon... I still think U2 sucks, though. They were influential, true, but they're wimps... Oh, shit!! Watch out for Titties!!

[Firebrand]

...and listen, I am right there with you...VH flat out rocked. It was everything rock is supposed to be - fast & fun.

Nobody had it like they did. I don't care who you want to bring into the conversation...Zep, Stones, Aerosmith, Kiss, etc...all great, all rocking....

But none of them VH. Period.

[guwapo_rocker]

Originally posted by Firebrand
...and listen, I am right there with you...VH flat out rocked. It was everything rock is supposed to be - fast & fun.

Nobody had it like they did. I don't care who you want to bring into the conversation...Zep, Stones, Aerosmith, Kiss, etc...all great, all rocking....

But none of them VH. Period.

Agreed!!! Van Halen was an event! They're playing

here on Saturday and not a whisper in the papers!

[Keeyth]

Originally posted by scottydabodi
Are you guys FUCKING KIDDING ME?!??!? Nirvana?!? U2?!?! Someone's on FUCKING DRUGS to compare those guys to VH with DAVE!!! Listen up, Baboon, true Van Halen was the fucking most KICK ASS Rock band of ALL TIME! They're influence is just STAGGERING, they're brilliance live is fucking BANANAS, and they had the Brass Balls that U2 never had... not to mention the FUCKING RULING GUITARIST!! U2 play fucking pussy ass shit that'll puts chicks to sleep, instead of making them wetter than Jenna Jameson in the Shower... "Lemon"??? What a crock!!! Dave would kick ALL U2's asses in a fight, then he'd drink a fifth of Jack, go to Courtney Love's house, and Smack that bitch in the face with a 2x4!! Fuckin' bunch of GODDAMN wusses. AND don't even get me started on the PantyWaste Cobain... Fuck him, and his Crackhead wife! Bullshit songs with the ass kicking potential of Christopher Reeves. DAVE ROCKS, Bozo and Nobrain DON'T- and THAT'S THE DAMNDEST BOTTOM LINE THA I EVER BOTTOM LINED!!!!!!!!!!!!! F-Ray Danniels, and F-Sammy.

Wh-wh-wh-WHAT??!?!?!??? We AGREE on something???? Scary ain't it??

[scottydabodi]

FUCK AN A YYYEEEAAAAAHHHH!!!!! Some dude just went screeching down my street blasting "PANAMA"!!!!!!! FUCK SAMMY!! I HOPE HE CHOKES ON A COCK!!! Let's fucking DRINK some Jack to THAT!!!!!!

[badhorsie]

If the magic is long gone with the current version of VH right now....

the magic will somehow reappear with DLR back?:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Firebrand]

...but, no doubt moreso than with Sammy.

And, quite possibly moreso than 90% of the rock out there today - which is sad.

[ROTHandRoll]

Sam was broke and begged to come back (w/ Mike the spinless jellyfish), Ed needed $$$ to buy an in-house distillery and Alex needed $$$ for his upteen failed marriages and surprise, it's tour time w/ 3 lame songs. Ed supposedly had enough material for 10 albums???? Yeah, 10 albums of out of tune, out of key BS. It's a cash grab and extremely sad to see the group I once admired turn into a pathetic POS. Thanks for the memories.

[Keeyth]

Originally posted by badhorsie
If the magic is long gone with the current version of VH right now....

the magic will somehow reappear with DLR back?:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Its about chemistry dude... ...if you add a spark to old gasoline and old gunpowder, it's still gonna make a hell of an explosion if it's put together right. Maybe an even bigger explosion.


If you don't know the how magic would would reappear with DLR, then #1 You never saw the real Van Halen, and #2 You dont know DLR!

Period.

[Noodles]

Firebrand, Firebrand. where am i? you have a marvelous way of seeing things + you're one eloquent (at DLRArmy!) and tuneful writer, man. (what happened to the rest o' ya's?)

nice read, my brother. I always enjoy your take on this shtuff. THANKS for summing-up -- a bunch of us (who're 35+, anyway) feel like underneath while we're hanging-out on the 'boards, reading so much regurgitated sh*t / Mind Pollution (among the genuine news/cool humans/music/etc., of course, Sarge!). certainly stirred-up some a few memories, cool.

but, Fire -- you really did miss a coupla MAGIC F*CKERS in 1981 & '82 ... where were ya?!

[Firebrand]

...but honest to God, the night before the Women & Children First show in Jacksonville I was supposed to see, DLR threw his back out in Lakeland. They cancelled the show as we were pulling up to the Jax Coliseum to get ready to go in...you talk about a disappointed little SOB, that was me!

See, I idolized Eddie. I played guitar pretty well (still do, as a matter of fact, although my playing style has changed quite a bit), was the first to attempt and succeed with tapping and harmonics and mimicking many of his signature moves here in South Georgia. But, I couldn't nail everything - some of his junk is elusive.

I was so, sooooo looking forward to being able to see with my own two eyes what he was doing with the stuff I couldn't figure out!! I just knew if I could see him I could nail it. Then it gets cancelled.

Well, finally 1984 comes around, and Jax is the opening show of the tour (I'll never forget Autograph, the opening band, at the end of every song, hearing nothing but "We want Halen, we want Halen" being chanted! Kinda felt sorry for them, but hell, I must not have felt too sorry since I was chanting too!)...so I am there with my drummer, bass player and lead singer, armed with my binoculars, ready to decipher all the Eddie moves...

After about 10 minutes, I put the binoculars down - bass player said "What are you doing?"

I just shook my head and said, "Listen, guitars just don't do the things he is making that guitar do. That guy ain't human."

Dadgum I miss those days, and I miss that band. Little could I have known I'd never get to see it again.

And, by the way - where ARE you???

[Noodles]

i'm right here, Fire -- Roth Army, DDLR.com, USA, same as you. just a little bit more to the left ... aaaohhwwwww.

i think you and i have a bit in common, man. the good stuff.

(and, i miss those days, and i miss that band too, bro)

[bluedog]

Enjoyed reading your post, Firebrand. Insightful.

[Keeyth]

Originally posted by Firebrand
...but honest to God, the night before the Women & Children First show in Jacksonville I was supposed to see, DLR threw his back out in Lakeland. They cancelled the show as we were pulling up to the Jax Coliseum to get ready to go in...you talk about a disappointed little SOB, that was me!

See, I idolized Eddie. I played guitar pretty well (still do, as a matter of fact, although my playing style has changed quite a bit), was the first to attempt and succeed with tapping and harmonics and mimicking many of his signature moves here in South Georgia. But, I couldn't nail everything - some of his junk is elusive.

I was so, sooooo looking forward to being able to see with my own two eyes what he was doing with the stuff I couldn't figure out!! I just knew if I could see him I could nail it. Then it gets cancelled.

Well, finally 1984 comes around, and Jax is the opening show of the tour (I'll never forget Autograph, the opening band, at the end of every song, hearing nothing but "We want Halen, we want Halen" being chanted! Kinda felt sorry for them, but hell, I must not have felt too sorry since I was chanting too!)...so I am there with my drummer, bass player and lead singer, armed with my binoculars, ready to decipher all the Eddie moves...

After about 10 minutes, I put the binoculars down - bass player said "What are you doing?"

I just shook my head and said, "Listen, guitars just don't do the things he is making that guitar do. That guy ain't human."

Dadgum I miss those days, and I miss that band. Little could I have known I'd never get to see it again.

And, by the way - where ARE you???

I completely feel you on that one bro... ...the 1984 tour show in San Francisco at the Cow Palace was the same way. Best concert I've ever seen, and oh, to know it was the last time...

It's a shame it's over... ...so much so, it makes me angry that Eddie cant see what could be.

[guwapo_rocker]

Originally posted by Keeyth
I completely feel you on that one bro...

Man post the gay shit over at the links okay??

[Keeyth]

Originally posted by guwapo_rocker
Man post the gay shit over at the links okay??

You would be the only one to process tht comment as gay in your wet little cocksucking dreams... ...I meant I feel the same way about the band being gone that he did... ...Oh, but you must be too old to know any modern expressions. Actually I'm probably older than you, you just live under a rock....

[DR CHIP]

Does Ed still make the horsie sound....

[guwapo_rocker]

Originally posted by DR CHIP
Does Ed still make the horsie sound....

Sounds more like a puddy tat now.

[Firebrand]

...I hate saying this, but I haven't listened to much of anything past the OU812 album. That's when the Sam Experiment started running out of steam, in my opinion. Bits and pieces, and that's about all. Of course I got all excited with the songs with DLR on the hits package, but that wrapped that up.

Eddie just isn't getting "pushed," for lack of a better way of putting it. I always kind of suspected his off the scale playing was a way of trying to keep ahead of DLR in the public's eye - and again, just about everything since the split confirms that much. He's kind of playing charades with himself as far as his playing is concerned. Very very uninspired.

I know a coupla years ago he said he was bored with the guitar, and I can see that. When you just about master the danged thing, there isn't a whole lot else to prove. All the Sam VH songs sound very similar - whereas the Dave songs all had a very distinct personality, groove to them.

Eddie needs a push. He ain't gettin' it. He's just coasting.