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Thread: U.S. Appeals Court kills net neutrality

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    Angry U.S. Appeals Court kills net neutrality

    U.S. appeals court kills net neutrality
    BGR.com
    By Brad Reed 5 hours ago


    Any semblance of net neutrality in the United States is as good as dead. The United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia on Tuesday struck down the Federal Communications Commission’s 2010 order that imposed network neutrality regulations on wireline broadband services. The ruling is a major victory for telecom and cable companies who have fought all net neutrality restrictions vociferously for years.

    The original FCC order said that wireline ISPs ”shall not block lawful content, applications, services or non-harmful devices, subject to reasonable network management” while also mandating that ISPs “shall not unreasonably discriminate in transmitting lawful traffic over a consumer’s broadband Internet access service.”

    In its ruling against the FCC’s rules, the court said that such restrictions are not needed in part because consumers have a choice in which ISP they use.

    “Without broadband provider market power, consumers, of course, have options,” the court writes. “They can go to another broadband provider if they want to reach particular edge providers or if their connections to particular edge providers have been degraded.”
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    Whomever did the "research" for these hack judges is either a fucking idiot, or a goddamned liar (or both).

    90% of the US has NO choice in broadband providers. A small percentage of others have the "choice" of cable broadband and DSL which is barely faster than dial-up, and completely unsuitable for any sort of audio or video streaming.

    There are two agendas which benefit from this dragonshit. Greed being the most obvious. Censoring liberal information in favor of corporate backed right wing propaganda is the other.

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    Court Strikes Down FCC Open Internet Order
    January 14, 2014
    Contact Info:

    Jenn Topper, 202-265-1490 ext. 35

    WASHINGTON -- On Tuesday, the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals struck down the Federal Communications Commission’s Open Internet Order. In its decision, the court said that the FCC lacked the authority to implement and enforce its rules under the legal framework the agency put forth.

    The FCC’s 2010 order was intended to prevent broadband Internet access providers from blocking or interfering with traffic on the Web. Instead of reversing a Bush-era FCC decision that weakened the FCC’s authority over broadband, and establishing solid legal footing for its rules, former FCC Chairman Julius Genachowski pushed for rules under the complicated legal framework the court rejected today.

    Free Press President and CEO Craig Aaron made the following statement:

    “We’re disappointed that the court came to this conclusion. Its ruling means that Internet users will be pitted against the biggest phone and cable companies — and in the absence of any oversight, these companies can now block and discriminate against their customers’ communications at will.

    “The compromised Open Internet Order struck down today left much to be desired, but it was a step toward maintaining Internet users’ freedom to go where they wanted, when they wanted, and communicate freely online. Now, just as Verizon promised it would in court, the biggest broadband providers will race to turn the open and vibrant Web into something that looks like cable TV. They’ll establish fast lanes for the few giant companies that can afford to pay exorbitant tolls and reserve the slow lanes for everyone else.

    “The FCC — under the leadership of former Chairman Julius Genachowski — made a grave mistake when it failed to ground its open Internet rules on solid legal footing. Internet users will pay dearly for the previous chairman’s lack of political will. That’s why we need to fix the problems the agency could have avoided in the first place.

    “New FCC Chairman Tom Wheeler recently stated that the FCC must have the ability to protect broadband users and preserve the Internet’s fundamental open architecture. In order to do that, he must act quickly to restore and reassert the FCC’s clear authority over our nation’s communications infrastructure. The agency must follow its statutory mandate to make broadband communications networks open, accessible, reliable and affordable for everyone.

    “We look forward to working with Chairman Wheeler and the rest of the Commission to protect and preserve real Net Neutrality.”

    http://www.freepress.net/node/105543
    http://act.freepress.net/sign/intern...e_node_feature

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    This blows massive cock!
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    You're damn right this blows massive cock. Net neutrality was one of the things the FCC did right.

    There simply aren't enough consumers (in my opinion) that truly care about the quality of their bandwidth to make even a small dent in a would-be greed driven ISP's bottom line. In fact, they'll probably save money in the longrun.

    I could be wrong of course, but this could also turn into a situation where we have much cheaper "basic broadband" and more expensive "premium broadband" options which could ...possibly be a good thing as it may lower the cost for a majority of consumers while those who want to be torrenting shit all day long might just be fine with paying for a more expensive option.

    It's tough to cast judgment right away, however you can't deny the fact that the ISP's will be considering the potential impact of pissing off a small majority of their customers to save money.

    Of course the original idea surely was to prevent egregious mangling of service for all but the most trivial of protocols. Hell.. I have bright house cable and my plan is a "basic" 30Mbps/1.5Mbps yet it's damn near impossible to play games such as unreal tournament (the original 1999 game) without severe lag spikes upwards of 250ms ... that's entering dialup territory! Any educated geek will know bandwidth does not necessarily translate into latency. If I had just 1 megabit that would be more than sufficient to enjoy any online game. Latency comes from the network - Quality Of Service, number of hops between you and the destination and other shit that they do to prioritize specific types of traffic and to me, it seems UDP traffic much like the kind that online games utilize is at the bottom of the fucking totem pole and they use that to advertise their "Lightning 90" for "gamers".

    REally? since when do I need *NINETY MEGABITS* to play a fucking game that on a busy server might take 20 KILOBITS? You don't. That's the fucking truth. You do need it though if you want your ISP to process those packets with a little more "priority", so basically as far as I'm concerned they've already been crippling the internet for most consumers and this changes nothing except now they have a legal judgment that practically grants them carte blanche to take it to the next level of absurdity.

    I suppose in an extreme world, we would have plans that might only allow traffic to web sites.

    Let's wait and see
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    Quote Originally Posted by neuralfraud View Post
    Let's wait and see
    Hmm, "Let's wait and see" was a really such good idea with the Military Industrial Complex that it will be a great idea with Net Neutrality. That is good and proper thinking, plus just a good idea!



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    Hmm ...yes. netflix filling those pipes and making all the money = pissed off verizon. That's exactly why they only have one service plan for all customers - A BILLION BITS!! Wait.. no ...that's not right.
    Starting with their "most popular plans" we have:
    15/5 $49.99/mo
    50/25 $59.99/mo
    75/35 $69.99/mo

    BUT WAIT! THERE'S MORE! That's right! because if 75 /35 is just not good enough for you, then they have the following QUANTUM plans (in limited areas)
    150/65 for $129.99/mo
    300/65 for $209.99/mo
    500/100 for $299.99/mo

    So somewhere, out there in the wide world of sports there are people willing to pay up to $300 a month to get this ridiculous amount of bandwidth, not even seen in most corporate IT infrastructures (in fact, where I work, the big 3 letter acronym that EVERYONE proudly displays on the back windshield of their car) we have a 50megabit pipe that is "burstable" to 100mbit. that's right. Some jabrone in his mommy's basement has more bandwidth than a huge corporate IT department.

    So no, I do not believe for one second that Verizon is in any way "pissed" about losing out on the money netflix is making.

    Now, for the argument of interfering with a service provider in order for the ISP to promote their own, competitive service? well, I can see that coming down to existing anti-competition law although it could take years for such a case to be presided over and by that time, in theory, the damage could be done.

    I would not be suprised though to see the RIAA/MPAA cronies crawling up Big ISP's ass(es) in order to kill bittorrent/magnet traffic but then again, see my first argument. If customers want 500mbits of bandwidth, they can pay for it and get it.

    Third, blocking sites for political reasons sounds like something that might happen ...in China.

    My argument is not for or against net neutrality or the ISP's, but remember way back when comcast was caught fucking with their customer's service? What happened? People revolted. Now suddenly out of nowhere comes this decision? seems like a case of "let's see how good their memory is".

    I prefer to not have to leave it to the government to force a company into leaving its service open and neutral for all parties and I have to hope that there are enough people who wont stand for such behavior and will in fact take their money elsewhere, forcing that company to respond appropriately.

    It's a shame that it had to come down to the FCC to decide in the first place... that an ISP (comcast) actually thought that it would be a good idea to interfere with the traffic. Hence my "let's wait and see" stance ..

    1] If net neutrality becomes law and remains law, then ISPs can simply change their plans and pricing to get what they want
    2] if there is no net neutrality, then ISPs can do whatever they want, perhaps they will unveil cheap "basic" tier plans for the masses, saving the bandwidth for the power users who want to pirate blu-ray rips and run game servers, etc.

    There are positives on both sides of the fence, as well as negatives. Net neutrality practically ensures that all content is treated fairly, that doesn't mean that for a given tier, an ISP won't simply make all content treated "poorly". Again, want to play that game with low latency? Then you need 90MEGA BITS!! Suprisingly, it seems to work because there's alot of people out there who enjoy online gaming. As a customer of both Verizon and Bright house, I'll admit that Verizon delivered far better performance where latency was a deciding factor in my enjoyment of a particular service. I eventually switched to RoadRunner Lightning (when it was 40/10) and my 20-25ms average ping turned into 50-75ms!

    Basically, right now it's far easier for an ISP to lower priority across the board (being fair) for a given tier than it is for that ISP to go through the lengths detailed by Mr. Uygur and I wouldn't be surprised at all if I called bright house, said "I want Lightning 90" and watched my ping cut in half while I play UT as they make the change to my service...but I also don't want to spend that kind of money right now, so I don't and I live with that. It sucks, but it could be worse.

    I'm just incoherently babbling at this point..

    TL;DR: *shrug*

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    If you're going to say this is a victory for corporate greed you're wrong. It's a victory for economic freedom and the right for ISPs to compete with one another without the government telling them what is equal and neutral. For example, what happens when the hospital can no longer pay for quicker and better service? Will grandma have to be delayed in surgery because the Care Bears demand equal service? The market will weed these problems out. Once you get government and the FCC involved then you get a pretty little marriage of government and corporations that is the worst of evils. In the end the intentions are great but will inevitably blow up like most anything else the government attempts to fix/correct/regulate/or equalize
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    Geezus RedBalls..... I thought you had learned something since you first started posting here as a dumb teenager all those years ago.

    Maybe I overestimated you?
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    What credibility has the FCC ever shown when it comes to anything

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    If it makes it up to you I don't like the trans pacific agreement

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redballjets88 View Post
    What credibility has the FCC ever shown when it comes to anything
    The FCC was doing just fine with it until the Chimp appointed Mikey Powell to run it, who by his own admission, knew NOTHING about the FCC or what their responsibilities were, let alone the purpose of the internet, before being put in charge of it.

    The Internet - just like the public airwaves - is a common carrier and should be equally accessible to all. Ultimately, something needs to be done about these "virtual" monopolies, because despite what this sadly misinformed judge believes (and apparently what you believe) there is little or usually NO choice in internet providers. As long as you're forced to pay those thieving bastards at Comcast/TimeWarner/Cox/insert your local monopoly here, you should, at the very least, be able to access every last website on the net for that $65 those assholes are stealing from you every month. But with net neutrality gone, they can bundle websites like they do TV channels. And we all know how well that works.

    BTW, whatever happened to McCain's ala-carte TV bill anyway?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redballjets88 View Post
    If it makes it up to you I don't like the trans pacific agreement
    That's good to hear..... but some of the same greedy media corporations are behind both.

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    I don't know what happened to that idea McCain had. I thought it was utterly stupid.

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    Seriously?

    These last few posts make you sound like you're a lobbyist for one of these huge cable monopolies.

    What could possibly be "stupid" about paying only for the TV channels you actually want to watch?

    Why do I even need shopping channels, religious channels, FAUX Noize, the goddamned "golf" channel, Spanish channels, Korean channels, the Oprah network, the Dumbfuck Dynasty, channel, and dozens of other useless shit reality shows that I will never watch coming in to my house? Why should I have to pay for that?

    (Truth is, I don't anymore, and that is a big part of the "why", but I'm speaking rhetorically here)

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    Oh, and by the way..... guess where Mikey Powell works now?

    http://www.ncta.com/who-we-are/leadership/bio/169

    CEO of the cable industry lobbyists. Well isn't that fucking special?

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    The problem with it is that it isn't the governments job to tell them how to sell their product. If the idea is worthwhile and demand is high enough one of the companies will make the innovation.

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    You know what would encourage innovation?

    Competition. And that's not possible when you have 3 or 4 cable companies controlling most of the cable market in the US, and acting as monopolies, since there is never more than one of those in any given market.

    When I first moved to my current address, I was paying Scumcast $39.95 for 70+ cable channels AND cable internet access. Now I'm paying them $65 for ONLY the internet. That's not innovation. That's pure greed, and they get away with it, because there are no other options. It's a monopoly. (Technically, there's always Century Link 1.5.mbps DSL, but that's a goddamned joke, and I would need to pay them a $500 deposit and subscribe to shitty overpriced landline phone package in order to get it. Which means I would pay them even more money than Scumcast, for even less internet.)

    Pretty much the only way to save ANYTHING in this country is to roll back every last stinking shitty policy of the last 33 years which have done absolutely nothing to help the American people, and everything to enable corporatist consolidation and greed.

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    What's better than government forced competition? True competitive innovation as in Apple TV, Hulu, Netflix, companies like UFC and WWE launching streaming cheap non cable alternatives for people.

    When the government steps in and demands that the cable companies change it makes the consumers less likely to gravitate toward the better option on the horizon.

    And if worse comes to worse pirate everything.

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    Apple TV, Roku, or the open source XBMC (which I personally endorse) are all great things. Hulu - even though it is owned by the industry itself, as a joint venture of Di$ney, Universal, and Murdoch - was a decent alternative as far as content delivery, especially when combined with one of the previously mentioned streamng devices. Up until recently, I was able to stream pretty much any network show I wanted on my TV through a Hulu XBMC plug in, with only the minor inconvenience of it being a day late.

    Notice I said "WAS".

    That's because, as of January 6, Di$ney complied with the cable industry criminals push to lock down access to content, and now you have to be a cable tv subscriber in order to stream any of their content. Thus rendering the entire point of streaming useless. It's called cord-cutting for a reason, but now the greedy industry has figured out how to strangle cord cutters with the very cords they cut. Universal is all but guaranteed to follow this practice, as they are owned by Scumcast, and Murdoch will follow suit because he's a greedy fucking bastard.

    And what if you live in a major metro area and can actually get network TV from a digital antenna? Doesn't matter.... you still have to pay a cable company before you can watch it online. That's bullshit.

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    People are far too stupid to realize how incredibly important this is and with a political system owned by big business I think you may be fucked...

    What I'm less clear on is when the US starts getting an internet service like China but censored by corporations rather than government, how will that affect the rest of us?

    This site is currently hosted in the US, if Verizon decide they don't like this thread I can of course move it to somewhere like Sweden where pretty much anything goes but what I can't do is still allow Verizon customers in the US to access it they decide to block it or make it super slow.

    This is a dripping tap thing, pretend you are playing checkers and think ahead a move or two FFS...
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    Quote Originally Posted by FORD View Post
    You know what would encourage innovation?

    Competition. And that's not possible when you have 3 or 4 cable companies controlling most of the cable market in the US, and acting as monopolies, since there is never more than one of those in any given market.
    Exactly - it's been done here quite a few times and if you think government is bad try a fucking private monopoly.

    A private company with a monopoly is 10 times worse than any government run shit, it is the worst of all worlds.

    Of course everyone knows this, they happen when you get public apathy + a bunch of backhanders + bullshit conservative ideology.

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    Idealology aside what huge difference has either party made on this or any other issue that holds any weight?

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    I love the vitriol toward the injustice of it, but what can be done beyond giving the public knowledge? Regulations and laws inevitably lead to more problems and less liberty.

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    If one thing is for certain, if any serious changes really do happen to the internet, I can almost guarantee that Anonymous is going to go into full "I've Had Enough (Into The Fire)" mode.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redballjets88 View Post
    Idealology aside what huge difference has either party made on this or any other issue that holds any weight?
    Since 1980, not much. Even the "Democrats" have acted like Republicans. In fact Clinton arguably did more damage in this area than Reagan did, when he signed that ridiculous "Telecommunications Reform Act" in 1996. It was passed by the Dole/Gingrich congress, of course. But he could have vetoed it. And should have. That one act directly enabled the creation of Clear Channel, and for Murdoch to expand his international propaganda empire, not to mention all the other media consolidation that followed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redballjets88 View Post
    I love the vitriol toward the injustice of it, but what can be done beyond giving the public knowledge? Regulations and laws inevitably lead to more problems and less liberty.
    The last 33 years prove that exactly the opposite is true. It's the deregulation that has brought on all this corporate consolidation, to the point where any major industry is controlled by 4 or 5 huge corporations, and in some cases - as it is with cable providers - you don't even get to choose from those 4 or 5, you just get one. And if nobody is regulating that one, they can charge whatever they want, disrupt your service however they want, have outsourced call center employees from India call you at 6:00 in the morning whenever they want, and just generally treat their customers like shit, because - well, where the Hell else are they gonna go?

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    And I go back to my argument about new technologies arriving that will create competition. It's the beauty of the free market...even through the cracks of over regulation and corporate monopolies we still have innovations coming through.

    The cable industry is falling behind and will be forced to compete soon. There are other companies waiting to snatch up any section of the market available (apple, Microsoft, Sony etc etc etc) so at this moment should we be regulating how people get their internet/streaming capabilities or should we give some slack to the regulations that inhibit others from joining the mix and being able to compete in the first place?

    The market will win inevitably. If you truly believe that without intervention we will be stuck with what we have now forever you're crazy

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    It may be a large burden for some but coming from the millinial generation it's about 50/50 with who has cable. And everyone I know (married, single, kids or no kids) has no real complaint. It's strictly their choice. Not to mention many lower income families get free basic channels with the apartments they live in (free market solution)

    It's all just a choice.

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    New technologies cannot compete in an unregulated market. Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak started Apple computers in their garage. If two kids tried to do something like that today, they would instantly be bought up.... ironically enough, Apple would probably be the one buying them. Or possibly Microsoft or Google.

    Google's also another example.... they started off with a noble enough idea - make a better search engine. And it was. At least before it turned into an ad spam generator and privacy destroyer. And aside from that, then the newly rich Google went on a spending spree and started buying up every thing in sight, including Grand Central (a VOIP company), SageTV ( the best TV tuner/DVR software for the computer that was ever made), YouTube, and most recently a programmable thermostat company called "Nest". And the results of this spending spree:

    Grand Central became Google Voice - It still functions pretty much as it always did, but now it's incorporated into the ad spam generator, so watch what you leave on your voice mail.

    Sage TV - while they still publish the EPG for existing Sage users, they have refused to continue development of the software, meaning that it has not kept up with the times, and new technologies which allow you to record two digital channels at once with the same tuner, provided they're on the same multiplex. So call that one "planned obsolesence".

    YouTube - weighted down with the dual boat anchors of Google Plus and ad spam. They have all but destroyed it.

    Nest - They just bought this one, so it's too soon to read the impact. But do you really want ad spammers to know when the heat (or A/C) is on at your house? Think about it......

    Google also owns Android which is on cell phones, tablets, and numerous other devices, including the media streaming box I own. Or should I say it WAS. Got rid of that shit and installed an all Linux version of XBMC. Much faster and far more secure. I'll never go back.

    Because Reagan, Clinton, Poppy and his retard son have systematically deregulated damn near everything, we have these behemoth corporations swallowing everything whole. And until those regulations are restored, competition is impossible
    Last edited by FORD; 01-18-2014 at 05:25 PM.

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    The internet has done a hell of a job growing organically to this point. The few problems will be fixed by the market.

    Allowing FCC regulation is just a foot in the door for the government and it's lobbyists.

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    Two more examples of how well "the market" regulates itself.....

    1) That fertilizer plant in your own state a while back.

    2) "Freedom" Industries of West Virginia and their new licorice scented death additive to the local water supply.

    Are these worst case scenarios? Absolutely. But both were easily avoidable, had there been proper regulation. The disaster now facing the internet may not be as rapid or as dramatic, but in the long run will be as devastating. Fascism loves an uninformed population, and in a time when even 60 fucking Minutes has become corporate presstitution, the internet is really all that's left.

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    That Fertilizer plant had/has regulations in place to prevent this. But what good does regulation do when the regulators are too inept to do their job.

    Once regulation takes hold then the rule of unintended consequences comes in to play and let the shot storm ensue.

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    Shit*

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    Expecting predatory capitalists to regulate themselves is like expecting Catholic priests to regulate pedophilia. You cannot be part of the solution if you're part of the problem. People need to wake up and realize that Ayn Rand's writings were not gospel truth, but horribly written fiction, and not even she believed in them in the end, as she was depending on Social Security and Medicare to take care of her when she was dying from self-induced lung cancer.

    Government is not the enemy. Or more specifically, proper government -by the people, of the people, and for the people - is not the enemy. When Reagan came in reading his script that "government was the problem" his friends made sure that it became that way, by appointing a bunch of corporate stooges to be "regulators", which proved about as useful as hiring vegans to run a steakhouse.

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    I agree with FORD. It's a crime that networks that produce TV shows have some control over how its distributed. It's also a crime that companies that invest in the infrastructure to provide services somehow think they are entitled to price products how they want.

    It's reprehensible!
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    I'm not attempting to throw around any objectivist philosophy, only saying instead of jumping the gun on FCC open ended regulation (based primarily on speculation and what ifs) why not wait til there is a problem to start talking regulation. Market pressures and public knowledge can prove to be just as/if not more powerful than beauracracy and power hungry shady deal makers.

    http://reason.com/blog/2010/02/24/re...ontv-net-neutr

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