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Thread: Hong Kong Phooey!

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    Hong Kong Phooey!

    Hong Kong Protesters Defy Officials’ Call to Disperse

    By AUSTIN RAMZY and ALAN WONGSEPT. 29, 2014

    HONG KONG — A wave of protest in Hong Kong extended into the working week on Monday as thousands of residents defied a government call to abandon street blockades across the city, students boycotted classes and the city’s influential bar association added to condemnation of a police crackdown on protesters a day earlier.

    The continued public resistance underscored the difficulties that the Hong Kong government faces in defusing widespread anger that erupted on Sunday, after the police used tear gas, pepper spray and batons to break up a three-day sit-in by students and other residents demanding democratic elections in the semiautonomous Chinese territory.

    On Monday afternoon, the Hong Kong government canceled the city’s annual fireworks show to mark China’s National Day, which falls on Wednesday — an implicit acknowledgment that officials expect the protests to continue for days.



    The police crackdown Sunday not only failed to dislodge protesters from a major thoroughfare in the heart of Hong Kong but appeared Monday to have motivated more people to join the student-led protests. A government announcement that the riot police had been withdrawn from the protest centers also seemed to open the door to growing demonstrations. The number of protesters, which had ebbed overnight, swelled again by midday Monday, as office workers in slacks and dress shirts mixed with crowds of students in black T-shirts.

    Many of the new arrivals said they were angered by the police’s actions on Sunday, which they called excessive.

    “This morning I was happy to see that they stayed and insisted on continuing the protest,” said Cindy Sun, a 30-year-old bank worker who joined protesters in the Admiralty district during her lunch hour.

    “What they were doing was not appropriate, especially the tear gas,” she said. “The students were completely peaceful.”

    Chloe Wong, 46, a mother of two, said she was inspired to join the protesters in Admiralty by the scenes of tear gas being fired the day before. She said she could only find time to participate for an hour but wanted to show her support.

    “The protesters, they are so young,” she said. “They are fighting for our future, for my children’s future.”

    Demonstrators were also blocking major streets in the busy shopping district of Causeway Bay and in Mongkok in Kowloon, one of the world’s most densely packed places.

    Earlier Monday, the government said that it had pulled back the riot police from the areas where roads were being blocked. The government urged the demonstrators to end their street sit-ins so that life in this busy commercial city could return to normal.

    But in Admiralty, home to the government’s offices and a focus of the demonstrators’ anger, many of the protesters said they were determined to stay until the city’s top leader, Leung Chun-ying, resigned and answered their demands for democratic elections to choose his successor.

    “We won’t leave until we have a dialogue between the government and the people,” said Agnes Yip, a sales worker in her 20s who had slept overnight on an expressway in Admiralty. “We’ll stay all day at least, and then tomorrow.”

    Many of the protesters in Admiralty were wearing surgical masks and goggles in anticipation that the police would again try to disperse them with tear gas or pepper spray. The announcement about the riot police appeared to allay such fears, at least for the time being.

    “Because the residents who have assembled on the roadways have largely returned to calm, the riot police have already withdrawn,” an unidentified spokesman for the government said in the statement Monday morning. The spokesman “urged the assembled residents to maintain calm and to peacefully disperse.”

    ​But after the statement was released, some police officers with riot shields and other crowd-control equipment remained near the protesters in Admiralty. About two dozen officers guarded a pedestrian overpass that provides access to the nearby government buildings, and other officers were resting nearby.

    On Monday, the Hong Kong Bar Association condemned what it said had been “repeated, systematic, indiscriminate and excessive” use of tear gas against demonstrators in Admiralty. “Even though on occasions, a minority of demonstrators became confrontational with the police, the overwhelming majority of the demonstrators were visibly conducting themselves peacefully,” the bar association said in a statement.

    An assistant police commissioner, Jacob Cheung Tak-keung, said at a news conference that officers had used a “minimal level of force” on Sunday after repeated warnings.

    The police said Monday that a total of 41 people had been injured in clashes over the previous three days, including 12 police officers.

    The protesters are calling for fully democratic elections for the city’s leader, the chief executive, in 2017. Hong Kong, a former British colony that was returned to Chinese sovereignty in 1997, had been promised universal suffrage by that date. But under China’s plan for conducting those elections, only candidates vetted by a Beijing-friendly committee would be allowed to run.

    Alison Fung, a magazine editor who said she had been at the Admiralty sit-in since Sunday night, said that she and other demonstrators were angered by what she called the “wordplay” used to present China’s election proposal as a democratic advance.

    “Probably about 10 years ago, Hong Kong was not so concerned about politics,” Ms. Fung said Monday. “But we want a more fair election so we can decide our own future. People feel that our opinions aren’t listened to.”

    The Hong Kong Federation of Students, one of the organizations leading the protests, called Sunday night for an indefinite student strike. On Monday, images of students holding gatherings at their schools in lieu of classes, many of them wearing black in support of the protests, could be seen on social media and in local news reports.

    In another indication that the protests could broaden, the Hong Kong Professional Teachers’ Union called Sunday for a general strike by teachers in the city. The organization, which has around 90,000 members, called the police “enemies of the people” and said they had used “ruthless force” against unarmed civilians.

    In a response Monday that drew some derision online, Hong Kong’s Education Bureau said it “respected all teachers,” pointing to a program it runs that rewards teachers for excellence. The bureau called on teachers to “uphold professionalism” and “make every effort to take care of students so that their normal schooling can be free from any interference.”

    “All external political influence and pressure must be kept away from the school campus,” the statement added, a nod to accusations from pro-Beijing politicians in Hong Kong that students were being manipulated by people with a political agenda. Organizers of the protests have denied such accusations, saying that the student protesters are acting independently.

    A commentary on the website of the People’s Daily, the Chinese Communist Party’s main newspaper, claimed that the upheavals in Hong Kong were instigated by democratic radicals who had sought support from “anti-China forces” in Britain and the United States, and had sought lessons from independence activists in Taiwan. It called them a “gang of people whose hearts belong to colonial rule and who are besotted with ‘Western democracy’.”

    Beijing has bristled at any concern voiced by foreign governments about the tensions in Hong Kong, including from Britain, whose treaty signed with China in 1984 set the conditions for Hong Kong’s return to Chinese sovereignty. But on Monday, the British Foreign Office issued a statement saying, “Hong Kong’s prosperity and security are underpinned by its fundamental rights and freedoms, including the right to demonstrate.”

    “It is important for Hong Kong to preserve these rights and for Hong Kong people to exercise them within the law,” the statement said.

    The United States Consulate in Hong Kong urged all sides to “refrain from actions that would further escalate tensions,” adding, “We do not take sides in the discussion of Hong Kong’s political development.” The statement appeared intended to answer Chinese officials who in the past have accused Washington of fomenting unrest in Hong Kong.

    Despite the protests, Hong Kong’s financial markets opened as usual. The benchmark Hang Seng index closed 1.9 percent lower, the worst-performing major market in Asia. The Hong Kong Monetary Authority said that 44 bank branches, offices or ATMs had been temporarily closed Monday because of the protests.

    Analysts said the short-term effects of the protests on business in Hong Kong were likely to be muted. In the longer term, they said, the local political climate could delay key budget approvals for the many large-scale infrastructure projects planned around the territory and could affect Hong Kong’s positioning as a financial center for China.

    In canceling the National Day fireworks, which usually attract tens of thousands of onlookers to Victoria Harbor, the government cited transportation and safety concerns, while essentially conceding that the protests were unlikely to end by Wednesday.

    “In view of the latest situation, it is anticipated that main access roads leading to hot spots for viewing the fireworks display may continue to be seriously affected,” the government’s statement said.

    NY Times

    Chris Buckley, Neil Gough, Paul Mozur and David Moll contributed reporting.
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    There is a big rivalry between mainlanders and Hong Kong residents and then there is a rivalry between the northern chinese and the cantonese. Add in a dislike for communism from people who's family had to flee from it and when Bejing shows some attitude this sort of thing happens.

    I can remember the concern of the British lease of Hong Kong running out. People there were buying property in Canada preparing to get the hell out of Dodge. When they moved to Canada they found they couldn't make the kind of money they were in Hong Kong. When they saw Bejing was going to leave Hong Kong a chinese commonwealth and let the Hong Kong Dollar continue and the freedoms of commerce would continue, many moved back. Since then there has been this uneasy existence between the communists and the Hong Kong crowd.

    Sometimes a communist party official or their kids throw their weight around in Hong Kong thinking they are above the law. It creates uneasy tension.
    Last edited by Nitro Express; 09-29-2014 at 10:46 AM.
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    Ah the world economy is set for a big downturn cycle. China with it's massive real estate bubble is going to be in one hell of a ride when it finally pops. The effect will ripple through the world. A world on the edge of potentially being on the verge of another world war. Sleep tight.

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    Fair wages for shitty iPhones now!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristy View Post
    Fair wages for shitty iPhones now!!
    Your new avatar is making me uncomfortable.
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    You've never seen a steering wheel before?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristy View Post
    You've never seen a steering wheel before?
    I'm thinking the ole 10 and 2 grip would be just about perfect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Halen View Post
    Your new avatar is making me uncomfortable.
    Because you can almost see a nudger shadow?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Halen View Post
    I'm thinking the ole 10 and 2 grip would be just about perfect.
    Careful with the airbag.

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    This is becoming a major standoff and could turn into another Tienanmen Square. But thus far, the Hong Kong Riot Police have pulled back and left the protestors on the main thoroughfares...

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    Most people in Hong Kong take life as it comes. They don't get upset too easy but if you manage to upset them then they go nuts. All that pent up anger they have hidden suddenly comes out. Ah some official in Bejing did something stupid. Some of those communist officials can be real assholes. China is a complicated mix right now. From what I see their president seems halfway decent, but you have the typical government assholes like here. Then you have this weird mix of capitalism and communism. Also, you have a lot of Taiwanese owned assets in mainland China now but at the same time you have the old guard that threatens Taiwan.

    It's a land of contradictions and strong rivalries. Hong Kongers don't like mainlanders and they especially don't like them damn yankees up north in Bejing. LOL!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Express View Post
    Most people in Hong Kong take life as it comes!
    Thanks for that, captain obvious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    This is becoming a major standoff and could turn into another Tienanmen Square. But thus far, the Hong Kong Riot Police have pulled back and left the protestors on the main thoroughfares...
    Well if Hong Kong was a closed country like North Korea they could take care of the problem with violence. The thing is communism doesn't work and Bejing wants to systematically migrate out of it. So you have their weird freedom vs authoritarian rule trip going on. Hong Kong was financially successful and the government in Bejing just made it a chinese common wealth instead of a british common wealth. You still have to go through customs to get into and from Guangdong and the Hong Kong Dollar is used instead of the RMB.

    I don't think you will see a massive slaughter from the government but they are concerned about a ripple effect on the mainland. The chinese government propped up the real estate market in china and they have a huge bubble ready to pop. When it does it's not going to be pretty. Then you have a lot of disgruntled workers ready to revolt.

    Some say the real estate bubble popping in china will be the straw that sets off a lot of civil unrest there. The world is not a stable place right now. Anywhere.

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    I believe the Hong Kongese (if that's correct) see the Beijing regime as slowly chipping away at their freedoms rather than reforming and opening their own gov't up faster...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    I believe the Hong Kongese (if that's correct) see the Beijing regime as slowly chipping away at their freedoms rather than reforming and opening their own gov't up faster...

    It's just a matter of time, Nick....

    I can't speak for what Hong Kong is like since China took over control in '97, but I went there about 5 times in the mid-'80s when the Brits still controlled it, and it was fan-fucking-tastic.....

    Great clubs, great shopping (especially suits and electronics), women of all nationalities all over the place.... It's really a fascinating place for being so small.....

    And I would be it's because Hong Kong is very much a melting pot that's fueling those demonstrations....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    I believe the Hong Kongese (if that's correct) see the Beijing regime as slowly chipping away at their freedoms rather than reforming and opening their own gov't up faster...
    When Hong Kong was turned over to mainland China there was an agreement that Hong Kong would still have free elections and choose their own rulers there. Bejing is breaking the agreement.

    When we lived there in the late 70's you had the boat people refugees coming into Hong Kong harbor fleeing indo China. Pol Pot was wreaking havoc in Cambodia. Many people we knew in Hong Kong fled Mao's takeover of China and had property confiscated and family killed. So the atmosphere was being on this little island and peninsula surrounded by a menace. The people who fled it feared it. I remember up on the HK/China border my mom talked to the chinese border guard and our friends were terrified she was even talking to him. I'm sure that fear and distrust is still there. It has to be.

    It boils down to money. The people I knew relocated to Canada but couldn't make the money they did in Hong Kong. When they found out Hong Kong was pretty much left to be Hong Kong they moved back. These were the same people who were terrified of the chinese over the border in the late 70's. As Cindy Lauper sings. Money changes everything. Maybe they are worried China is going to confiscate things again. It's a weird situation. People live in the moment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Va Beach VH Fan View Post
    It's just a matter of time, Nick....

    I can't speak for what Hong Kong is like since China took over control in '97, but I went there about 5 times in the mid-'80s when the Brits still controlled it, and it was fan-fucking-tastic.....

    Great clubs, great shopping (especially suits and electronics), women of all nationalities all over the place.... It's really a fascinating place for being so small.....

    And I would be it's because Hong Kong is very much a melting pot that's fueling those demonstrations....
    It was a great place to visit. I lived there for three years. It was very competitive and cut throat and frankly it was nice to get back to the US.

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    Bejing tried to make Shanghai the new Hong Kong but it just didn't work. Much like their central planned real estate market is going to go down in flames. Badly. I think there are people in Bejing trying to do the right things but there's huge corruption in China and lot's of other problems like pollution. I just can't see it escaping some massive civil unrest and hell just about every place on the planet that is a major country is going to have some of that going on. Oh well, they have high speed trains and people seem to think high speed rail saves the world.

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