Paul Stanley on JRE

[Nitro Express]

Yeah, largely run into the ground by ineffectual jerkoffs trying to gouge every last cent out of CD's, even as the costs of production had fallen rapidly. They dug their own grave in the early 1990's by blatant price gouging and idiotic, short-sighted greed. But I guess the cunt execs couldn't maintain their coke and whores while charging a few buck$ for a CD instead of nearing $20 a copy!

The free market at work. I guess people were willing to pay that price. Nobody was forcing you to buy those CD's. It's not like Obamacare where you are forced to buy overpriced shit insurance.

[DONNIEP]

Hippies wear Rolex watches?

Hippies do not wear Rolexes. They wear outdoorsy looking watches on, God forbid, hemp straps.

[Seshmeister]

I have mixed feelings on all of this.

It's difficult to listen to someone who has made $125 million complain about being robbed on the basis of his art when

a) We know he made around 100 times as much as his guitarist and drummer.
b) Kiss were the ultimate whores of all time. How much is enough? Calling going into a studio and recording any old shit or hiring Desmond Child to do it for you is stretching the term 'art' to breaking point. 'No No No'?

I don't want to go into any Jewish stereotyping but when you have him admit he dreaded going on a ship trapped with 3500 of his fans (paying around $1000+ each) you have to ask 'Well why fucking do it? You do realize you have enough money already and you are going to die sooner or later.'

[Seshmeister]

Yeah, largely run into the ground by ineffectual jerkoffs trying to gouge every last cent out of CD's, even as the costs of production had fallen rapidly. They dug their own grave in the early 1990's by blatant price gouging and idiotic, short-sighted greed. But I guess the cunt execs couldn't maintain their coke and whores while charging a few buck$ for a CD instead of nearing $20 a copy!

This is all very true.

There remains a problem though. Artists used at least get 10% of 90% split between the band and their manager. Now they get almost nothing.

Ki$$ and all those old bands like Van Halen are the exception because they make a ton from touring at the new 'Jagger invented' prices, but there is a whole second tier that don't make enough money to work basically.

I get the impression that a lot of people steal the album(s) from a torrent, pay $20 to get into the gig and then spend $50 on booze in the club/venue. That often the venues now take 25-30% of the merch which used to be a lifeline is harsh especially now when people expect decent quality shirts and so on. For a lot of these bands touring is an expenses paid vacation where breaking even is a bonus. Without any royalties either then it gets difficult. If it wasn't for the fact that recording and video costs are so much lower now maybe all we would have is the Timberlake/X-Factor mainstream vomit.

[kwame k]

I agree, Sesh but.........the Casino circuit must be kinda lucrative for the oldies groups! They all play 'em, even the second tier acts, hell....third tier acts as well. Gotta be more than gas money!

[Nickdfresh]

The free market at work. I guess people were willing to pay that price. Nobody was forcing you to buy those CD's. It's not like Obamacare where you are forced to buy overpriced shit insurance.

What's funny here is how the guy that mindlessly blames the banking industry for everything from the real estate bubble to Ebola now blindly defends the record industry - often a notoriously putrid collection of cunts pretending to be "executives". And there is a long, long history of people saying this from Hunter Thompson to Iggy Pop (most recently)...

And you weren't forced to purchase overpriced, shit insurance BEFORE Obamacare? What fucking planet are you on?

"Nobody was forcing (me) to buy those CD's?" No one was preventing college kids from pirating downloads, either....

And "free market at work?" What is "free" about collusion and price fixing? It was actually the NON-free market at work, which spawned a black market and always does...

[twonabomber]

The record industry has always been based on failure. One band makes it big, while countless others lose money for the label.

The labels were making money hand over fist when everyone was replacing their LPs with CDs at close to $20 a pop, and still paying bands a royalty rate based on the lower cost of LP and cassette. Then the labels got their own CD plants, lowering their manufacturing costs, and continued short-changing the artists.

Another thing: nothing should be out of print any more. Distribute it digitally. Give me an option to get a lossless file and I'll quit looking for old stuff on torrents.

And if you write...ALWAYS keep your publishing. That's where the money is.

Here's a good read on questionable contract language

https://futureofmusic.org/article/article/major-label-contract-clause-critique

[Kristy]

Hippies wear Rolex watches?

Yeah, the kind they can only get at Walmart.

[Kristy]

What's funny here is how the guy that mindlessly blames the banking industry for everything from the real estate bubble to Ebola now blindly defends the record industry - often a notoriously putrid collection of cunts pretending to be "executives". And there is a long, long history of people saying this from Hunter Thompson to Iggy Pop (most recently)...


"Nobody was forcing (me) to buy those CD's?" No one was preventing college kids from pirating downloads, either....

And "free market at work?" What is "free" about collusion and price fixing? It was actually the NON-free market at work, which spawned a black market and always does...

The major flaw you overlook (as usual) with the free market is that there has to be a product consumers want in the first place. 'Da biz' has done nothing but offer mediocre music for years by signing bands that become nothing ore than tax write offs. There are some that have tried to circumvent the system like Pearl Jam and Radiohead who put out a dismal record years ago and said "we'll let our fans decide the price." Well, that didn't work either. Not that it was a bad idea but because it was a shit record. Consumer behavior is based largely upon convenience and there is absolutely nothing convenient about spending over $18 for a piece of shit CD that may have one or two listenable tunes on it. 'A Different Kind Of Turd' is a perfect example of this.

Like the Kinks said, 'Give The People What They Want' and when 'da biz" fails as doing that time and time again all they can do is go screaming to the courts for protection. Any decent and successful musician who has a major label deal will tell you 'da biz' is run by suits who see dollars and do not give one shit about music no matter who it is. Even without the advent of illegal downloads, piracy or what have you, it is doomed and now the roosters have all come home to roost. Major labels could all fold tomorrow and no one would miss them except of course, all of you poncey metalheads and U2/Coldplay fans who like corporate rock.

[Green Manalishi]

WRONG! The shitty muszak they industry keeps churning out is what's destroying "da biz."

I have to give some credence to Kristy . Bands are no longer required to be skilled as actual musicians ( look at rap ) or talented enough to create original music . Watered down cover versions and sampling , or should I say " stealing " are all the rage . It seems like flavor of the moment image is all important and talent is left by the wayside .

[Nitro Express]

Yeah, the kind they can only get at Walmart.

That's Don's Rolex. I bought mine from an authorized Rolex dealer.

[Nitro Express]

What's funny here is how the guy that mindlessly blames the banking industry for everything from the real estate bubble to Ebola now blindly defends the record industry - often a notoriously putrid collection of cunts pretending to be "executives". And there is a long, long history of people saying this from Hunter Thompson to Iggy Pop (most recently)...

And you weren't forced to purchase overpriced, shit insurance BEFORE Obamacare? What fucking planet are you on?

"Nobody was forcing (me) to buy those CD's?" No one was preventing college kids from pirating downloads, either....

And "free market at work?" What is "free" about collusion and price fixing? It was actually the NON-free market at work, which spawned a black market and always does...

Please dude. I went to business school. Worked in the finance industry for a number of years and started a successful business. I know markets. The central banking industry creates bubbles because it issues the money. Too much money creates bubbles. The stock market is a bubble because the Federal Reserve has been giving all the money they are issuing to the big investment banks and they are buying stocks.

Record companies have no effect on the money supply. They simply market recorded music. Since they have no control over the money supply they are a free market. Central banking is not a free market because the open market does not decide how much money is going to be produced. Only people who meet in closed meetings decide that. If the money was based on an openly traded commodity or basket of commodities then it would be a free market.

Big difference.

[Nitro Express]

I have to give some credence to Kristy . Bands are no longer required to be skilled as actual musicians ( look at rap ) or talented enough to create original music . Watered down cover versions and sampling , or should I say " stealing " are all the rage . It seems like flavor of the moment image is all important and talent is left by the wayside .

It's always been that way. Look at the Monkees. They were hired actors. Granted they learned how to play but it all was a fabricated project. The thing is today there is technology to make a fake act. The Autotune makes someone who can't sing sing in key. Also in entertainment companies like all corporations, things run from the top. People don't want to take risks because it may endanger their job. They play it safe and try to recreate something that worked before. So you get the same cookie cutter crap until someone like a Kurt Cobain type character shakes it up. The thing is you don't know who the Kurt is until someone makes them a deal and puts them out there. That of course was a record label somewhere with an employee thinking outside of the box.

[Nitro Express]

The record industry has always been based on failure. One band makes it big, while countless others lose money for the label.

The labels were making money hand over fist when everyone was replacing their LPs with CDs at close to $20 a pop, and still paying bands a royalty rate based on the lower cost of LP and cassette. Then the labels got their own CD plants, lowering their manufacturing costs, and continued short-changing the artists.

Another thing: nothing should be out of print any more. Distribute it digitally. Give me an option to get a lossless file and I'll quit looking for old stuff on torrents.

And if you write...ALWAYS keep your publishing. That's where the money is.

Here's a good read on questionable contract language

https://futureofmusic.org/article/ar...lause-critique

Pretty much like other businesses. More failure than success. Most new products are failures. Yeah. Not all members of a band get paid the same and there is more money in publishing. That's why the smart people in the band write a lot of the songs and get legal ownership to their publishing. It's all about deals and negotiation. If you are smart and can play the game you make money. If you go in stupid you lose. It's no different than the construction business. You bid too low and you eat it. You get too greedy and you don't get the gig.

It's called having some talent to sell and having a brain so you don't get taken. Bend over and most likely you will get fucked.

[DONNIEP]

Bend over and most likely you will get fucked.

Especially in Thailand.