I have a theory explaining the dearth of HD early VH live video on the entire planet earth:
Warner Bros. or the band have it in a safe deposit box to be trotted out when there is no longer a version of the band around that might not measure up to it.
It is simply not plausible that history is stuck with shaky Super8 video and dubbed audio of these performances (numbering in the hundreds) that re-wrote all the rules.
Well, you are not calculating in the spirit of the times. Do you honestly believe that in the pre-video era of 1978, Warner Brothers would send a film crew around to capture the sights and sounds of an unproven band on it's first or second tour? This band was lucky enough to eat at McDonalds once or twice a week, let alone get filmed at all in High Def, which didn't even exist back then. Tape recorders (unless purchased at a drug store...so much for fidelity) and primitive video cameras weighed about as much as a Buick, and were hardly fun to lug around, let alone use.
Look at the crap Zep went through with their live DVD from a decade ago. Most of the footage had to be baked (yes, BAKED) in an oven to keep it from falling apart, overdubs were needed, and at one point Jimmy Page sought out bootleggers to contribute footage lost over the years to fill in the gaps.
So yeah, from time to time a small, 5-10 minute bit of footage shows up online, usually culled from hastily (and cheaply) made band promos. Yet to believe there is a WB produced, full feature VH show sitting in the vaults is simply absurd. Besides...Warner would have released it by now, given the financial quagmire that the group has existed in since...oh, I dunno...around the time of that awful VHIII album.
Damned it...a few inches lower and we'd never have heard of Chickenfood...
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.”― Stephen Hawking
Film can be presented in high definition, even if shot in the 70s. It depends on how good the source is, even if it is Super 8.
I brought my pencil!!!
Funny seeing folks post about modern stuff that wasn't even invented... Simple reason for no HD video of early Van Halen... wasn't invented yet. Even more simple... camcorders weren't available until around 82/83. Prior to that it was a 2 piece operation with separate unit for sound & video.
So for early Van Halen captured live it meant both film and audio recording crews and gear.
There's a lot of stuff on film/tape that WB had in controlled storage and some inventory sheets that had been scanned and posted on the net several years ago listing what they had... No idea if any of that stuff is still in storage or was tossed in a dumpster sometime in the 80's/90's/00's...
I recall a few years ago someone asking Mike about all that film/recordings... he wasn't even aware that stuff existed. Which seems reasonable... the band was busy playing & partying and the management company just "took care of shit" for them...
It's my hope that, that gold mine still sits in a film storage facility and can someday be accessed and brought to life...
"If you want to be a monk... you gotta cook a lot of rice...”
I remember cameras at the WACF show...but seems to me Von or someone said there was no film in those cameras...
"Ya know what they say about angels... An angel is a supernatural being or spirit, usually humanoid in form, found in various religions and mythologies. Plus Roth fan boards..."- ZahZoo April 2013
Originally Posted by ZahZoo
Had to pull this shit out of the Archive machine....
https://web.archive.org/web/20090322...land-81-a.html
Eat Us And Smile - The Originals
"I have a very belligerent enthusiasm or an enthusiastic belligerence. I’m an intellectual slut." - David Lee Roth
"We are part of the, not just the culture, but the geography. Van Halen music goes along with like fries with the burger." - David Lee Roth
chefcraig said:
"Do you honestly believe that in the pre-video era of 1978, Warner Brothers would send a film crew around to capture the sights and sounds of an unproven band on it's first or second tour? This band was lucky enough to eat at McDonalds once or twice a week, let alone get filmed at all in High Def, which didn't even exist back then. Tape recorders (unless purchased at a drug store...so much for fidelity) and primitive video cameras weighed about as much as a Buick, and were hardly fun to lug around, let alone use."
__________________________________________________ ___________
Let's put it this way - in 1978, network news crews could be on the scene of a house fire while it was still roaring and record it with decent resolution.
Who said anything about *every* show? Warner Bros. could have done it at one or two. Audio could have been simultaneously pulled off the main board with zero hassles. When I used the term HD I meant HD - relative to the times.
Thanks man for that trip down memory lane. We have had several of these discussions over the years. Some stuff has appeared in recent years that was not widely known.....pristine super8 video scanned in sooper-dooper high quality from 1978 & 1979.....here....2012 Remaster.
Fucking GREAT solo by bassplayer, right after the first song.....
Speaking of bassplayer. "Feel Your Love Tonight", he is fucking playing some ripping shit.
Man, Wolfy is a great bassist, but Mike knew how to really PLAY.
Stupid temper-tantrum BS and they get rid of a serious part of the band when they let him go.
Ha...all the gurls are screeming their little pussies off.
Thanks Hardrock69, I caught the "On Fire" portion of that performance on youtube a while back. The rest was cool to see as well.
I took a luke-warm enthused friend to see them on the WACF tour (either Oakland Auditorium or Cow Palace, I can't recall). From the minute they came on and for the entire show, he was on the edge of his seat. It was like watching a kid experience disneyland for the first time.
Unfortunately, I'm starting to resign myself to the fact that it really doesn't matter *how* good the AV quality might be. The crowd vibe and the electricity of being in the audience are a substantial part of a live performance that just can't be canned. In this case, particularly.
I was at 2 of the 3 Oakland 81 performances... There were the same professional film crews at both shows filming the whole time. This was in the days when there were no huge diamond screens and live shots being projected on a screen during the show... So huge film cameras were not a normal concert component.
There was also a ton of extra gear and several techs in the main soundboard area in addition to the normal mixing board and lighting control equipment. I clearly recall seeing a rack of 1 or 2 inch tape reels in the soundboard area the 1st nite I was there and passed by it trying to fight my way to the front...
In previous discussions, we came to the conclusion that there were at least a dozen concerts we could confirm that they were filming professionally. I seem to recall Dave saying they were filming at one of the 1981-1983 shows I saw. Could be it was a common trick Dave would use to get a roar out of the crowd.
But the list we had were shows where there was full film crews. Like ZahZ be saying. He can account for 2 nights personally, and we can assume the third night was shot as well.
That is 3 shows in the can somewhere.
Then there are your usual suspects, US Festival and others. We know of at least 4 or more VH shows that were TV broadcast in South America, but that was 1983 and forward.
The 1978-1982 period is really devoid of great footage. This is one of those bands you wish cell phones had been invented 30 years earlier.
The footage I posted above is some of the best available from audience sources.
Oh.....Texas Jamm was filmed. We know how that wound up.
Speaking of which, I have not seen the documentary yet either.
List of people who appeared as "himself" or "herself" in that film is a great representation of the A list rock stars of 1978....
Van Halen should have been included. But no.....we the fans should not be so lucky.
Wish I knew what mindset is behind this shit.
Bad enough that the fans are not allowed to see Van Halen pro-shot live footage except for what has been released officially.
They have film in the can for the last 7-8 years worth of shows, as they have always had a film crew running the video shoot for each night.....not even any of that has been released.
Hell, it is so ridiculous fans are forced to create their own multi-cam videos like this one:
Another band who is missing insane amounts of film or video in BootlegWorld is ZZ Top. The best you can hope is to find the 240p video of them performing the song "Chevrolet" at Largo, MD in mid-November of 1976. Then there is the occasional appearance on European Television rock shows.
Sure they released concept videos for much of the 80s, but they have kept a rather extreme lockdown on footage from the 70s and 80s.
I am just glad we have what we have.
Oh, and the part about the electricity of a Van Halen show......that was a major part of the experience.
They kicked so much ass that the energy mirrored back by the audience was off the hook.
I have never seen any artist ever create such absolute insanity in a coliseum as Van Halen did from 1979 on. 1978 was their coming-out year. Nobody seeing them had any chance to go berzerk, as it was the first time dancing with the Almighty Van Halen. The band copped a feel before the audience even knew what hit em. And when they realized what was going on, VH was off the stage.
So the second tour....the first Headlining tour.....people knew what to expect, and were rabidly and fanatically attempting to get into shows by any means possible. I saw it.
So then the next few tours were arenas and stadiums.
I have seen 12,000 human beings behaving like terrified animals seeing the Great Larg for the first time.
Where the only physical activity they could engage in to express their crazed amazement would be to destroy the arena by hand.
Have never seen such a maniacal fan reaction since that era. From anyone.
In general though, MTV ruined it. In the 70s when you went to see a show, it was special. It was the only time you were going to be able to hear and see your favorite band LIVE.
There was no video. No VHS. No DVDs.
And so the electricity in the audience was something amazing to experience.
Once cable arrived, and MTV began broadcasting concert videos, people became a bit more jaded and concerts were no longer the opportunity to see/hear your fave band.
So audiences slowly began to be come more subdued. The electricity of the 70s-era was gone. Only peeps old enough to have seen a lot of shows from the 70s and early 80s will know what I am talking about.
These days at a concert.......*song over* - *applause* - *crickets chirping*.
I don't recall cameras at any of the early shows that I attended in the SF bay area... but what I *do* recall is firmly embedded in my brain. I appreciate the current stuff like you posted above but man, Roth isn't taking any chances is he? It's kind of hard to watch when my old but vivid memories of the band in their prime keep popping up like before/after shots in a weight watchers commercial. They sound pretty good though, all things (No M. Anthony!) considered... but let's leave it at that.
Sure looked like a full film crew in Edmonton in '80. I suppose it could've been roadies with prop cameras, but this is the band that came up with Brown M&M's to test if riders were being paid attention to. Who the fuck knows. If it's out there somewhere, I fucking want it!
I think some of the fastest sprints I ever ran were across the venue floor and to the barricade at concerts. Got to be up front. We would camp out for hours like the idiots do now for Black Friday.
No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!
I was never there to get at the head of the line, and was not even fast enough to beat the hundreds who were all ahead of me, so I just tried to get as close as I could without being crushed.
Last edited by Hardrock69; 11-19-2014 at 07:40 PM.
For once you tell the truth....
You are not here now.
Dork...
HD video can be sourced from both video and film - to include film shot long before HD video was created. The film "Gone With The Wind" was filmed in the 1930s and there is a 1080p blu-ray version of it available - sourced from the original film reels.
It's a simple matter of the number of lines of resolution in the film. And even though it was shot decades ago - a lot of film has enough lines of resolution in it to source HD video from it.
Well explained, Guitard. When I first got my HD TV a couple of years ago, the first thing I watched was an HD version of It's A Mad Mad Mad Mad World. It almost looked as if it were filmed recently. Amazing, the restorative HD abilities out there today.
Film does not have lines of resolution...
You're talking about TVL (television lines) resolution which has to do with alternating light and dark vertical lines...
Old school CRT technology...
Film has nothing in common with lines of resolution...
Last edited by ELVIS; 11-22-2014 at 12:40 PM.
I know what you're saying, Elvis, but there is some sort of basis for how much resolution you can get out of film. It is similar to scanning photos. Sure, I can scan a wallet-size photo at 2,400dpi, but is it going to make it look any better? It definitely wouldn't be as good as scanning a 13x19" photo at 300dpi, which is actually print resolution.
So, scanning film that's 70MM is going to look gorgeous at 4K resolution; or even 8K resolution. Scanning a 8MM wouldn't nearly have the detail at 4K resolution to warrant the file size.
TAG
Yeah, but TVL was a limitation on film as opposed to where HD and especially Blu-ray makes it shine...
Because yes, scanning film negatives is the same as scanning photos.
You can scan at higher resolutions to convert to digital, just as with audio.
Next up in the general progression of things is the 4K racket. We got done wif DVDs. Then Blu-Ray came along. Now it is on it's way to being old news. This year you will be able to get really good 4k TVs for under a grand during the holiday crush sales.
And no 4K source to run through it. Money well spent!
Writing In All Proper Case Takes Extra Time, Is Confusing To Read, And Is Completely Pointless.
If you are comparing apples and oranges, you have to come up with something to use as a basis of comparison, and in the film/video industry, that's done using Modulation Transfer Function (MTF). MTF uses lines as a basis for comparison. Hence why I said lines.
But you are correct in saying film by itself does not have lines of resolution.
Yeah, I think it's something like 8mm=720p, 16mm=1080p, 35mm=4k, 70mm=8k
Indeed. Back in the day of festival seating! If you were planning to be up front for any length of time it was imperative that your position be chest to chain-link. This sometimes involved an uncompromising frame of mind, so to speak.
There is one particular Day on the Green in Oakland that I remember most vividly. Not for any particular band or performance, but for the fact that I was one of the first five to reach the lawn and charge for the barrier, which turned out to be an 8' tall solid plywood wall. We all looked at each other in shock and disbelief, as we struggled to catch our breath, each of us, I'm certain, considering how to best remove it. I know I was.
Being short was an advantage. I just went under people's raised arms to get up front...and I was almost always.up front.
I BLEW it for the Fair Warning tour though. Was up front, centre stage...and I fainted. The security team helped me over the fence, and I panicked and ran for the sidelines...FUCK. They had grabbed chairs for me and my boyfriend to sit INSIDE THE BARRIER. Sigh... one of life's "could've been" moments.
What's a grabbed chair ??
Oh, I get it...
Grabbed must mean redskin, and they had these beauties for you...
No wonder you fainted...
Oh, ffs....have you never quickly typed something on your phone and not proofread? *brought two chairs over*
Actually, I fainted because I had sick sinus syndrome and av block...
Too much info...
It was a joke, BTW...
Does anyone here have a sense of humor anymore ??
You clowns are blurring the confusing the internet with reality way too much...
I have a great sense of humour. You must just be a lousy comedian.
Hmmm...
Well, either way...
Here's a song for you for Christmas...
Last edited by ELVIS; 12-13-2014 at 01:34 AM.
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