Have Faith, We’ll Have an Atheist President

[Seshmeister]

I'm not sure I'm convinced but it's a point of view and it's nice and short.

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate...t-president-14

Have Faith, We’ll Have an Atheist President
Penn Jillette
UPDATED MARCH 24, 2015, 9:08 AM

I’m an atheist and I’m not running for president. That means my chances of being taken seriously as a presidential candidate are a bit better than Donald Trump’s.

Some of my fellow atheists bemoan that atheism is the final taboo in politics – polls report that America would never elect an atheist president.

Some day there will be a candidate America loves, and the fact that she or he is atheist will matter as much as Kennedy being Catholic.

Because of that, they brag that their favorite candidate (usually Obama or a Clinton) has to lie and say they believe in god and promise that they pray for supernatural guidance in world affairs.

They justify that their heroes are liars because Americans are too stupid and too bigoted to be told the truth. When you celebrate your hero as a liar, you’ve lost the moral high ground.

The Clintons and Obamas swear they believe that their lives and our country are guided by a supreme-being. I take them at their word. If the choice is superstitious straight-shooter or a patronizing liar, I’ll go with honest. At least the supernatural has some rules.

My hero (and not a liar), Christopher Hitchens, once explained to me that we would never have an atheist president, but that we would have a president who was atheist. And yet, America in the 1980s would never have voted for a divorced B-list movie star ... but they voted for Ronald Reagan. The specific wins over the abstract.

Some day there will be an honest woman or man who America will love and want, and the fact that she or he is an atheist will matter as much as Kennedy being a Catholic or Romney being a Mormon (O.K., bad example). For better or worse (and to the libertarian in me, worse) we don’t elect ideas, we elect people.

Maybe Americans are too stupid and bigoted to elect the right person for the job even if he or she is an atheist, but we haven’t run that experiment yet and until we do, I will not take atheists’ condescending guesses on faith. I don’t have faith — I’m an atheist.

I’m not president, but I do a magic show. Teller and I are atheists and our audiences are mostly believers and they don’t care what we don’t believe because we’re the ones they want to see do a magic show. If Americans can take honesty in their magicians, we should give them a chance to accept honesty in their president.

[TFM_Dale]

One nation under God, I hope I don't live to see the day an atheist is president.

[jhale667]

One nation under God, I hope I don't live to see the day an atheist is president.

Are you fucking kidding me? It'd be the best thing that ever happened to the country. Finally someone that didn't have to kowtow to any religious faction, be it Fundagelicals or whatever.



Btw, love ya dude, but "One Nation Under God" is McCarthy-era bullshit...

[TFM_Dale]

Are you fucking kidding me? It'd be the best thing that ever happened to the country. Finally someone that didn't have to kowtow to any religious faction, be it Fundagelicals or whatever.

I have my beliefs and you have yours my friend. I respect yours and understand what you are saying, I just feel that God is being pushed out of everything and the morals of this country suffer for it. I know this isn't the site to give a sermon and I won't be doing so, I just feel atheists have it all wrong just as they feel Christians have it all wrong.

[jhale667]

I have my beliefs and you have yours my friend. I respect yours and understand what you are saying, I just feel that God is being pushed out of everything and the morals of this country suffer for it. I know this isn't the site to give a sermon and I won't be doing so, I just feel atheists have it all wrong just as they feel Christians have it all wrong.

Just realize that my beliefs can be supported by facts and logic, and your assertion that religion has anything to do with morality, or that an atheist is somehow unfit to govern, are false and can't be argued logically. In fact to say that morals depend on faith is one of the flimsiest arguments ever. Not even going to argue it with you - just think about it or YOURSELF for a moment and that argument will fall apart.

[TFM_Dale]

Just realize that my beliefs can be supported by facts and logic, and your assertion that religion has anything to do with morality, or that an atheist is somehow unfit to govern, are false and can't be argued logically. In fact to say that morals depend on faith is one of the flimsiest arguments ever. Not even going to argue it with you - just think about it or YOURSELF for a moment and that argument will fall apart.

Oh I know ALOT of people have used religion as a cloak for some really evil shit. I know it is a popular practice to dismiss religion with science here but considering a lot of science is "proven" with theories it hardly makes it a fact. I respect your beliefs and nothing posted on a message board will change mine.

[jhale667]

Oh I know ALOT of people have used religion as a cloak for some really evil shit. I know it is a popular practice to dismiss religion with science here but considering a lot of science is "proven" with theories it hardly makes it a fact. I respect your beliefs and nothing posted on a message board will change mine.

I'd say ponder this only then - How is it to suggest that the only thing that keeps YOU from being an immoral psychotic savage is belief in a book "written" by (illiterate) nomadic sheep herders that didn't know bats weren't birds not to do yourself a great disservice?

[TFM_Dale]

It isn't the only thing that keeps me from being a savage, I also have common sense
Religion alone obviously can't fix society just as science can't. They used to electroshock the mentally ill and give them labotomies, these methods were proven to be ineffective and cruel. That doesn't mean science or doctors are always wrong though, it means nobody knows everything. Science doesn't have all the answers just as Religion doesn't. I want everybody to believe whatever they choose, if I hear of you struggling or being sick I'll say a prayer for you. All I want in return is some well wishes from you if the same happens to me. I'm not here to try and change anyone's beliefs.

[Nitro Express]

I'd say ponder this only then - How is it to suggest that the only thing that keeps YOU from being an immoral psychotic savage is belief in a book "written" by (illiterate) nomadic sheep herders that didn't know bats weren't birds not to do yourself a great disservice?

Actually the Bible was put together by the Roman Empire. Emperor Constantine started a new Christian religion. he needed scripture for it. The Council of Nicea met and hashed it out. Nobody knows who wrote a lot of what went into the bible. They could have been smoking some wacky tobaccy in Nicea and made a lot up.

[vandeleur]

Dude you told me you had a signed copy

[vandeleur]

Am trying to keep up with your presidents , you have the one who sings the Taylor swift song . Then the shagger. And then then the one who worked for the Saudi's with his dad.

[Seshmeister]

It isn't the only thing that keeps me from being a savage, I also have common sense
Religion alone obviously can't fix society just as science can't. They used to electroshock the mentally ill and give them labotomies, these methods were proven to be ineffective and cruel. That doesn't mean science or doctors are always wrong though, it means nobody knows everything.

That's a great example.
The big difference is that when it was proven to be ineffective or unpredictable they stopped doing electroshock. It was deemed immoral to do lobotomies but not from a religious morality. They did most of them in the 1950s when 'One nation under god' was coined. There is no similar mechanism in religions to change due to facts or evidence so they just carry on being ineffective and cruel for thousands of years.

[ELVIS]

Have Faith, We’ll Have an Atheist President

What an oxymoron...

[ELVIS]

I just feel atheists have it all wrong just as they feel Christians have it all wrong.

And most do...

We've all been deceived...

But Jesus Christ is the still point in the turning world and in Him is found truth...

The ONLY truth...

[kwame k]

With the bible belt being an influence that it is and now they're talking about adding Georgia, Texas and six other evangelical states the day after Iowa's primary, pandering to the religious right has taken on a new meaning!

I think you should be able to believe anything you want or nothing at all! The most qualified person should win regardless of their beliefs! There has already been Deists and atheists as presidents! So it wouldn't a first!

[DONNIEP]

Separation of Church and State? Hell no! That ain't what Jesus intended! And here's my video proof!



See - you can't deny that! Well, not unless you're one of them 9/11 truthers that believes in magic hologram planes and robots and the Moon Landing. Or Scientology. Those Scientologists are Devilly!

[kwame k]

Remember this nation was founded on the Christian religion

Said no Founding Father, ever!

[ELVIS]

Then why do you say it ??

[DONNIEP]

Remember this nation was founded on the Christian religion

Said no Founding Father, ever!

Kirk Cameron did not die upon the cross for you to spout that mess at me! You need to read your scriptures. It plainly says that Jesus gave America to the White People because the Injuns weren't doin' such a good job with the environment. They was killin all the Buffalos and settin up casinos (which are Devilly!) all over the place. So He parted the Atlantic Ocean and we walked all the way across from White Landia to America, led by Charleton Heston Hisself! And that's why America is Number One!!

[kwame k]

Then why do you say it ??

To mock you for believing it

[DONNIEP]

To mock you for believing it

You won't be mocking anybody when Zombie Times comes! That's right - it's all in the secret code in the Bible! But you gots to be predestined to unlock it!

[ELVIS]

To mock you for believing it

I don't say or believe that...

That's what you think...

[kwame k]

So that whole thing we did where you demanded I prove to you that the Founders were for separation of church and state........never happened

[DONNIEP]

So that whole thing we did where you demanded I prove to you that the Founders were for separation of church and state........never happened

I'd move to Vatican City where the Church is the State, if it wasn't for all those Catholics running around the place...

[kwame k]

You could move to Iran or Saudi Arabia, too! Two great examples of how combining church and state works out!

[dazzlindino]

And most do...

We've all been deceived...

But Jesus Christ is the still point in the turning world and in Him is found truth...

The ONLY truth...

so says "the book" written by middle eastern mental midgets....and consolidated by a roman ruler.....

[DONNIEP]

You could move to Iran or Saudi Arabia, too! Two great examples of how combining church and state works out!

Hell no! They'd cut my head off as soon as I got off the plane. Plus there's no booze there. Or strip clubs. Which, in the case of those living in The Kingdom, kinda takes all the fun out of being rich.

But Iran? Hell yeah! They're a beacon of freedom and forward thinking! America's greatest ally in an ever changing world - Iran. Death to America!

[kwame k]

I just thank Allah everyday we have a Muslim President

[ELVIS]

so says "the book" written by middle eastern mental midgets....and consolidated by a roman ruler.....

Mental midgets, eh ??

Think what you want...

[ELVIS]

So that whole thing we did where you demanded I prove to you that the Founders were for separation of church and state........never happened

You don't even know what that means...

[DONNIEP]

I just thank Allah everyday we have a Muslim President

I thought he was a Communist? That's like an Amish Buddhist - they don't exist. Make believe - like honest white cops.

[dazzlindino]

You don't even know what that means...

.......but you do.............what the f ever.....

[dazzlindino]

Mental midgets, eh ??

Think what you want...

so if this jesus "character" showed up today in the mess...that is the mideast...
you would believe.....

[kwame k]

You don't even know what that means...

Sure.......I guess the big words trip you up

"And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.”-Thomas Jefferson

[dazzlindino]

Sure.......I guess the big words trip you up

"And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.”-Thomas Jefferson

badda boom....

[kwame k]

I thought he was a Communist? That's like an Amish Buddhist - they don't exist. Make believe - like honest white cops.

He's a Socialist, Communist, istismist that is a super secret Muslim hell bent to not take away your guns so he can take them in his second term........geez, keep up will ya!

[ELVIS]

"And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.”-Thomas Jefferson

So, Jefferson was an unbeliever...

Big deal...

[lesfunk]

He just takes away the ability to buy ammo

[DONNIEP]

so if the jesus showed up today in the mess...that is the mideast....
you would believe.....

Jesus is gonna come back riding on the back of a bad ass horse, lookin like The Death Dealer from the Molly Hatchet album cover and he's gonna have this blaring out of a jam box tied to the back of his saddle:



Then The South is gonna rise again!

[dazzlindino]

So, Jefferson was an unbeliever...

Big deal...

Elvira...when you get to heaven.....how long is the line to hold Jesus' hand for eternity.....