Does the "Eat 'Em and Smile" Reunion talk say anything about the future of Van Halen?

[chuckjitsu]

To me, the Sam era represents an inferior version of VH, so there's zero reason for me to ever want to see that lineup again. The Dave era songs are better and Dave is/was a better frontman. Plus, the world doesn't need to see a 70 year old man in capris bullshitting around onstage. I have zero interest in anything this lineup could give, whether it was a tour or studio album.

Dave's 2nd act with VH may be coming to a close, but I sure as fuck don't want to be slathered in Sam era velveeta again, which I would be even if I chose to completely ignore it.

[Terry]

Yes . . . . . but the book "My Uncensored (and untruthful ) Life In Rock" was released in 2011, which as we know Spammy wrote some major personal shit about Ed and his addictions, etc. That may have been the last straw for Eddie . That and Spam's continued shit talking to this day. Never say never in Rock N Roll and even with them rehiring him in 2004, I'd still be a little surprised.

Possibly, although all Hagar did was confirm what many suspected just by Eddie's appearance and performances in 2004 alone (confirmation that Eddie was pretty fucked up). Even if Hagar hadn't written the book, it's not like fans wouldn't have been aware of Eddie's condition otherwise. Possibly the Van Halens are still pissed more about Hagar revealing the various business machinations behind-the-scenes from 1993 through 2004. Possibly the Van Halens just didn't even give much of a shit one way or the other when Hagar's book came out, since by that point they had already been reunited with Roth and were in the midst of recording ADKOT and planning the tour to support it.

I mean, you look at the all the things Roth said about the Van Halens from 1985 to 2005 - none of which were any worse than what Hagar did in his book - and when it finally came down to having no other options other than to reunite with Roth, the Van Halens did it. Should Roth leave the group, what other options would they have besides reuniting with Sammy if they wanted to tour? Yeah, everybody says get Ralph in there. I'd be interested in seeing that happen rather than another round of Hagar, but what are the chances Van Halen can pull off what Journey has?

[DONNIEP]

Possibly, although all Hagar did was confirm what many suspected just by Eddie's appearance and performances in 2004 alone (confirmation that Eddie was pretty fucked up). Even if Hagar hadn't written the book, it's not like fans wouldn't have been aware of Eddie's condition otherwise. Possibly the Van Halens are still pissed more about Hagar revealing the various business machinations behind-the-scenes from 1993 through 2004. Possibly the Van Halens just didn't even give much of a shit one way or the other when Hagar's book came out, since by that point they had already been reunited with Roth and were in the midst of recording ADKOT and planning the tour to support it.

I mean, you look at the all the things Roth said about the Van Halens from 1985 to 2005 - none of which were any worse than what Hagar did in his book - and when it finally came down to having no other options other than to reunite with Roth, the Van Halens did it. Should Roth leave the group, what other options would they have besides reuniting with Sammy if they wanted to tour? Yeah, everybody says get Ralph in there. I'd be interested in seeing that happen rather than another round of Hagar, but what are the chances Van Halen can pull off what Journey has?

Honestly I'd rather see Ralph and Russ and Mike and whatever great drummer than I would see Ralph up there with OBC and Wolfie and Spock. Wolfie would probably enjoy it cause he seems like the only normal guy in the whole insane asylum that's his family. But I really don't care anything about seeing Ed onstage ever again. The dude just has zero stage presence and basically, like the old vampire he is, sucks the life out of the room.

You bring up a good point with Journey but I don't think VH could achieve the same level of success that they did by hiring a singalike. Journey had pretty much been out of the spotlight, aside from the yearly tours. Plus their singer had become a recluse and refused to sing, ever. Then they lost their replacement singer and really didn't have many options. Neal lucked out finding Pineda on YouTube and the band was really excited about making a serious comeback. They went so far as to re-record the hits with the new guy and put a lot of effort into the release. And it was a fucking smash hit. Even if VH hired Ralph, Ed and Spock would put absolutely zero effort into it. I could see them re-recording the hits just so they could cash in and screw Dave and Warner real good. But I don't think they'd sell in the numbers that Journey did or generate the heat they did. But what the hell do I know? Maybe if they announced a tour with Ralph people would go nuts. I would eat my own words and buy a ticket and see at least one show, probably more than one. I mean, from the middle of the floor seats of you squinted your eyes it would look like Dave and it damn sure would sound like Dave. Plus the guy has the entire routine down, not just the vocals.

But I think Ed's only real option is bringing back Sam. I know it would sell tickets, at least for the early shows. But I've sat through video of entire shows from the 2004 tour - because I fucking love watching Ed stagger around. And Slappy put zero effort into the two shows I've seen, probably because every nite was a train wreck so why bother? I mean, it's kinda hard to sing the songs of the damn guitar player is over there playing God knows what when he's supposed to be playing Jump or any of the Van Hagar songs. So IF they brought Sam back they'd have to really try and kill every nite or it would be a complete failure. Which would be great for me because I would love it.

[Anonymous]

You guys are assuming Edtard even knows who Ralph is.

[Jetstream]

You guys are assuming Edtard even knows who Ralph is.

I see it like this, rock stars are the most insecure people on the planet. Roth listens to every damn thing Hagar does and Hagar listens to everything Dave does, and Edward is no freaking different regardless of what he might say. Like when they hired Cherone and he said he had never listened to him in Extreme which is total bullshit for anyone who is making a weak ass attempt to sound disinterested. Remember Edward said the last LP he bought was Peter Gabriel's "So"... which sits right next to his awful "Circle" live album lol

[vandeleur]

I can't wait for ed and Sam to get back together what's not to like , the Dave thing has ran its course and who doesn't love a bit of car crash TV. Sam will bad mouth Dave, ed won't have wolf so will get hammered and get fucked up. This has soap opera all over it, diver downton abbey .
I've never seen any van Hagar live but I look forward to any future shows as I do when I see those video clips on you tube of people sawing trees down with ladders against them.

Bring it on

[DONNIEP]

You guys are assuming Edtard even knows who Ralph is.

He not only knows who Ralph is, he showed up at an early show and played the Balance record for their guitar player before it came out.

[vandeleur]

And because wolf is off making music we will have to get Mike back , but Mike will have to do it for scale or do you guys have minimum wage ? Probably save some bucks if he makes his own packed lunch instead of having a rider.
But at least we can get back to having the 5150 dance donniep loves , maybe even up date it. Sammy is a savvy guy may be he can create a 5150 2.0 dance.

Sammy could have the whole chicken foot guys be the support band , that would help Mike with the bills.

This is sounding better and better.

[DONNIEP]

And because wolf is off making music we will have to get Mike back , but Mike will have to do it for scale or do you guys have minimum wage ? Probably save some bucks if he makes his own packed lunch instead of having a rider.
But at least we can get back to having the 5150 dance donniep loves , maybe even up date it. Sammy is a savvy guy may be he can create a 5150 2.0 dance.

Sammy could have the whole chicken foot guys be the support band , that would help Mike with the bills.

This is sounding better and better.

First off, if they bring back the 5150 Walk I will go to a show, jump the barricade and get in front of Ed and do it with them!!! I swear to God I will or I'll get locked up trying. Hell, when Sam finds out it was my site that posted the Sammy Death Hoax he'll beg me and Warf to come up on stage!

But seriously, on the 2004 tour I think Mike made what, it was either 8 grand or 40 grand a night. I can't remember how much.

[vandeleur]

Do you guys have those reality shows where celebrities dance against one another , strictly come dancing it's called in the UK. Dave has to do that , it is his density.

[DONNIEP]

Do you guys have those reality shows where celebrities dance against one another , strictly come dancing it's called in the UK. Dave has to do that , it is his density.

Hahaha!!! His density - you got the BTTF reference!

Yeah we have that. I don't think Dave should do it. He's embarrassed himself enough. I mean, I finally understand that he has the dance floor because he has to do something onstage and 9 foot toe touches off the riser are hard at any age. So the guy has to do something. But I think we've all seen enough of his dancing. Which, ya know, we bitched about the hired chick he danced with but what if he'd done that every nite with a real audience picked chick and that was ALL the "dancing" he did every nite. Maybe we kinda fucked that up, lol.

[Von Halen]

I believe Ed knows he totally fucked the Van Hagar fans on the 2004 tour, because he was so wasted. I believe he'd like to right that, and end the Van Hagar era on more of a positive note, performance wise. I also believe Wolf will absolutely be involved, because he'll make more money reaching into Van Hagar fans pocket, than virtually anything else he could do.

They know they've bled CVH fan dry. They can't do a new album with a 4th singer, because frankly, it would be too much work. They know reaching into Van Hagar fans pocket is easy money, for at least a tour or two.

I'm willing to wager this happens, if anyone wants to step up to the plate.

[Dan]

I believe Ed knows he totally fucked the Van Hagar fans on the 2004 tour, because he was so wasted. I believe he'd like to right that, and end the Van Hagar era on more of a positive note, performance wise. I also believe Wolf will absolutely be involved, because he'll make more money reaching into Van Hagar fans pocket, than virtually anything else he could do.

They know they've bled CVH fan dry. They can't do a new album with a 4th singer, because frankly, it would be too much work. They know reaching into Van Hagar fans pocket is easy money, for at least a tour or two.

I'm willing to wager this happens, if anyone wants to step up to the plate.

Oh Boy,This will Never Happen With Sammy Hagar again.

I'm willing To Put My Roth Army membership on the line.Ban me for life if The Tour With Sammy Happens.

Ok,I just step Up,Von.

[Von Halen]

Oh Boy,This will Never Happen With Sammy Hagar again.

I'm willing To Put My Roth Army membership on the line.Ban me for life if The Tour With Sammy Happens.

Ok,I just step Up,Von.

Then we'll be down to 7 active members.

It will happen. When it does and you lose the bet, you have to go see them!

[vandeleur]

Then we'll be down to 7 active members.

It will happen. When it does and you lose the bet, you have to go see them!

Seems a bit harsh he didn't kill anyone

[DavidLeeNatra]

I believe Ed knows he totally fucked the Van Hagar fans on the 2004 tour, because he was so wasted. I believe he'd like to right that, and end the Van Hagar era on more of a positive note, performance wise. I also believe Wolf will absolutely be involved, because he'll make more money reaching into Van Hagar fans pocket, than virtually anything else he could do.

They know they've bled CVH fan dry. They can't do a new album with a 4th singer, because frankly, it would be too much work. They know reaching into Van Hagar fans pocket is easy money, for at least a tour or two.

I'm willing to wager this happens, if anyone wants to step up to the plate.

where do they want to play? House of Blues? Some clubs? Remember that on the last tour NONE of the shows (not even the first one!!!) was a sellout. they had to cover up half filled venues and two shows were cancelled.

to me this band is done. if they don't find a decent twist in their career and make a surprising move one can blow out the rotharmy torch...

[vaijuju]

where do they want to play? House of Blues? Some clubs? Remember that on the last tour NONE of the shows (not even the first one!!!) was a sellout. they had to cover up half filled venues and two shows were cancelled.

to me this band is done. if they don't find a decent twist in their career and make a surprising move one can blow out the rotharmy torch...

Artist: Van Halen, Kenny Wayne Shepherd
Venue: Los Angeles, CA - Hollywood Bowl
Date: October 2 and 4, 2015
Gross Sales: $2,963,220
Attendance/Capacity: 30,632 / 34,867
Ticket Prices: $250, $35

[Terry]

I believe Ed knows he totally fucked the Van Hagar fans on the 2004 tour, because he was so wasted. I believe he'd like to right that, and end the Van Hagar era on more of a positive note, performance wise. I also believe Wolf will absolutely be involved, because he'll make more money reaching into Van Hagar fans pocket, than virtually anything else he could do.

They know they've bled CVH fan dry. They can't do a new album with a 4th singer, because frankly, it would be too much work. They know reaching into Van Hagar fans pocket is easy money, for at least a tour or two.

I'm willing to wager this happens, if anyone wants to step up to the plate.

Dunno about a wager, but it wouldn't surprise me if it did. I don't think the thought of that would be something that was beyond the realms of possibility in Ed's mind.

They can't do an album with a new singer unless they finance and distribute it themselves, because no record label left that has any weight in terms of distribution would even bother with a Roth-less or Hagar-less Van Halen album, and Van Halen is far too lazy to try and do anything as innovative as self-financing and self-distribution. The Van Halens have an antiquated mindset when it comes to the music business.

[DLR Bridge]

I believe Ed knows he totally fucked the Van Hagar fans on the 2004 tour, because he was so wasted. I believe he'd like to right that, and end the Van Hagar era on more of a positive note, performance wise. I also believe Wolf will absolutely be involved, because he'll make more money reaching into Van Hagar fans pocket, than virtually anything else he could do.

They know they've bled CVH fan dry. They can't do a new album with a 4th singer, because frankly, it would be too much work. They know reaching into Van Hagar fans pocket is easy money, for at least a tour or two.

I'm willing to wager this happens, if anyone wants to step up to the plate.

I agree with most of this. I don't think Wolf is thinking about how he can make the most coin. I think he's young, hungry and interested in creating. He said he was annoyed with how long it took to record ADKOT. I wouldn't doubt we'll see his music out there by March or April of '16. Pushing that release by pretending to play bass on When It's Love just doesn't sound right, but hey, he's his father's son.

As far as the Hags returning, I see it as totally possible. There are 3 factions of fans. The Dave crowd, the Sam crowd and the 'I don't give a fuck who's singing, because it's all about Ed' crowd. 2/3 of the pie will suit the brothers just fine. I'm thinking they'll never make new music again. They are just too damn lazy and don't have one tenth of the creative juices flowing that Wolf has right now.

[DONNIEP]

I agree with most of this. I don't think Wolf is thinking about how he can make the most coin. I think he's young, hungry and interested in creating. He said he was annoyed with how long it took to record ADKOT. I wouldn't doubt we'll see his music out there by March or April of '16. Pushing that release by pretending to play bass on When It's Love just doesn't sound right, but hey, he's his father's son.

As far as the Hags returning, I see it as totally possible. There are 3 factions of fans. The Dave crowd, the Sam crowd and the 'I don't give a fuck who's singing, because it's all about Ed' crowd. 2/3 of the pie will suit the brothers just fine. I'm thinking they'll never make new music again. They are just too damn lazy and don't have one tenth of the creative juices flowing that Wolf has right now.

Wolfie's hungry all right. By the time his scary good new record comes out they'll have to hoist him up on stage with a damn crane

[DavidLeeNatra]

Artist: Van Halen, Kenny Wayne Shepherd
Venue: Los Angeles, CA - Hollywood Bowl
Date: October 2 and 4, 2015
Gross Sales: $2,963,220
Attendance/Capacity: 30,632 / 34,867
Ticket Prices: $250, $35

I was talking about the 2004 trainwreck tour, Sherlock...

[vaijuju]

I was talking about the 2004 trainwreck tour, Sherlock...

oh yes, i'm confused ! sorry ! you know , i am old man now !

[DavidLeeNatra]

oh yes, i'm confused ! sorry ! you know , i am old man now !

[Grit]

Possibly, although all Hagar did was confirm what many suspected just by Eddie's appearance and performances in 2004 alone (confirmation that Eddie was pretty fucked up). Even if Hagar hadn't written the book, it's not like fans wouldn't have been aware of Eddie's condition otherwise. Possibly the Van Halens are still pissed more about Hagar revealing the various business machinations behind-the-scenes from 1993 through 2004. Possibly the Van Halens just didn't even give much of a shit one way or the other when Hagar's book came out, since by that point they had already been reunited with Roth and were in the midst of recording ADKOT and planning the tour to support it.

I mean, you look at the all the things Roth said about the Van Halens from 1985 to 2005 - none of which were any worse than what Hagar did in his book - and when it finally came down to having no other options other than to reunite with Roth, the Van Halens did it. Should Roth leave the group, what other options would they have besides reuniting with Sammy if they wanted to tour? Yeah, everybody says get Ralph in there. I'd be interested in seeing that happen rather than another round of Hagar, but what are the chances Van Halen can pull off what Journey has?

Hagar really took it personal with his attacks and I had always thought it was kind of an "unwritten rule" in Rock that some personal things are off limits. Hagar probably had reason to be pissed off but for a guy who claimed he still "loved" Ed even after that, to completely humiliate him by giving such detail about Ed's personal battle with addiction and health was sickening. To get in the detail about his appearance "rotting teeth", his "lisp from tongue being partially removed from cancer", bad hygiene " smelled and looked like he hadn't bathed for days" etc, etc, etc, is something a person would not do to a true friend who was battling addiction. Shit like that can do more damage and put the addict in a much worse state, not to mention what could have happened if he were at all suicidal like some addicts. Hagar is simply a fraud who was out for vengeance no matter what he did to another human being, not to mention one that he claimed he still cared about. As bad as the words got between Ed and Dave, it never got near as low as what Hagar did. That may be something Ed will never forget or forgive him for, who knows?

According to Valerie, the only reason Ed connected with Dave again is because Wolf was going through some of the classic Van Halen material in Ed's studio and loved the music from the Dave era. Maybe part of it may have been "no other option". It wouldn't surprise me if Hagar would agree to it for sure, we know he has no dignity. He would do it even after saying it would now be "hypocritical" etc. Only time will tell I guess.

[damngoodtimes]

Only time will tell I guess.

if we stand the test of time?

[Terry]

Hagar really took it personal with his attacks and I had always thought it was kind of an "unwritten rule" in Rock that some personal things are off limits. Hagar probably had reason to be pissed off but for a guy who claimed he still "loved" Ed even after that, to completely humiliate him by giving such detail about Ed's personal battle with addiction and health was sickening. To get in the detail about his appearance "rotting teeth", his "lisp from tongue being partially removed from cancer", bad hygiene " smelled and looked like he hadn't bathed for days" etc, etc, etc, is something a person would not do to a true friend who was battling addiction. Shit like that can do more damage and put the addict in a much worse state, not to mention what could have happened if he were at all suicidal like some addicts. Hagar is simply a fraud who was out for vengeance no matter what he did to another human being, not to mention one that he claimed he still cared about. As bad as the words got between Ed and Dave, it never got near as low as what Hagar did. That may be something Ed will never forget or forgive him for, who knows?

According to Valerie, the only reason Ed connected with Dave again is because Wolf was going through some of the classic Van Halen material in Ed's studio and loved the music from the Dave era. Maybe part of it may have been "no other option". It wouldn't surprise me if Hagar would agree to it for sure, we know he has no dignity. He would do it even after saying it would now be "hypocritical" etc. Only time will tell I guess.

Well, the whole 2004 section of Hagar's book came off more like a justification of why Sammy went forward with the tour and continued to do so (financial considerations/monetary penalties if he quit) even after it became quickly apparent that the shows sucked. And the one theme that was constant throughout the book (which I did read from start to finish) is that anything that went wrong in Hagar's life was always the fault of someone else and never Hagar's fault to the slightest degree. Even when describing his affairs with other women on the road while his wife was home due to illness, Hagar's take on that boiled down to "my wife and I weren't getting along in part because she was sick so I'm not to blame for starting an affair with some chick I met on the road". So it was only natural that Hagar placed 100% of the blame for the 2004 tour performances being as shitty as they were squarely on Eddie's shoulders. But Hagar doesn't even offer a caveat of saying maybe HE was partially to blame for signing the contract and going out on tour when he KNEW how fucked up Eddie was from the first meeting he had with the Van Halens in 2003 and throughout the recording process of the new tracks that ended up on BOBW as well as the REHEARSALS for the 2004 tour, where apparently Eddie couldn't even get through a rehearsal of the entire set. So, within the strict confines of the 2004 chapter of the book, Hagar comes off as charmless and vindictive. Within the context and "nothing bad was/is my fault" tone of the entire book, it's just a case of him merely being a consistently charmless douchebag on a personal level. Having said all that, despite Hagar's loose relationship with being truthful and his being prone to continual bouts of exaggeration what he had to say about the 2004 tour sounded accurate enough. And OF COURSE Hagar would reunite with the Van Halens again if asked to. In a fucking minute. The only way I could see Hagar refusing is if Mike wasn't invited.

However, THAT scenario would probably hit a snag in that the last 7 years of activity for the band have probably taken place in large part because Ed likes playing music with his kid. That statement isn't a slag, a slam or a dig. It's just a fact. And I don't doubt that Wolfgang was the one to suggest and push for Roth to get back in the band, just as Wolfgang has been the one that has shaped the setlists for the last 3 tours and suggested deep CVH tracks for the band to perform beyond the standard greatest hits tunes. Mostly because Wolfgang reads the blogs, knows the fans wanted to see Dave back with the band and doesn't have the history with Roth that his father and uncle did, thus getting Dave back was a conclusion the kid reached fairly easily. I mean, it seemingly was a no-brainer to begin with, and to the Van Halens credit they did try again with Roth after Cherone left the group. Plus, after the 2004 debacle, no promoter in their right mind would accept Van Halen with anybody OTHER than Roth and demonstrable proof that Ed had cleaned up his act.

[ZahZoo]

I think some don't appreciate how significant it is that Ed gets to perform at "his" level with his son. Consider that for a good part of Wolfgang's life Ed was either in the bottle or not there at all. Ed's probably damn thankful for getting to know and spend time with his kid sober, present and mostly accounted for now. Pretty safe bet there's a lot of years with Dad missing in his kid's life. Most people don't get that 2nd, 3rd or 4th chance...

[DLR Bridge]

Terry, I completely agree with regards to his autobiography. I read it and could not believe (well... yeah. I could) how much the guy blamed on other people. He has zero accountability for anything! Correction, he said some of his lyrics on OU812 were shit and that he shouldn't have cussed up a storm at the Farm Aid gig. Eeeeeeverything else was someone else doing him wrong. What a panty waste.

[Seshmeister]

Well, the whole 2004 section of Hagar's book came off more like a justification of why Sammy went forward with the tour and continued to do so (financial considerations/monetary penalties if he quit) even after it became quickly apparent that the shows sucked. And the one theme that was constant throughout the book (which I did read from start to finish) is that anything that went wrong in Hagar's life was always the fault of someone else and never Hagar's fault to the slightest degree. Even when describing his affairs with other women on the road while his wife was home due to illness, Hagar's take on that boiled down to "my wife and I weren't getting along in part because she was sick so I'm not to blame for starting an affair with some chick I met on the road". So it was only natural that Hagar placed 100% of the blame for the 2004 tour performances being as shitty as they were squarely on Eddie's shoulders. But Hagar doesn't even offer a caveat of saying maybe HE was partially to blame for signing the contract and going out on tour when he KNEW how fucked up Eddie was from the first meeting he had with the Van Halens in 2003 and throughout the recording process of the new tracks that ended up on BOBW as well as the REHEARSALS for the 2004 tour, where apparently Eddie couldn't even get through a rehearsal of the entire set. So, within the strict confines of the 2004 chapter of the book, Hagar comes off as charmless and vindictive. Within the context and "nothing bad was/is my fault" tone of the entire book, it's just a case of him merely being a consistently charmless douchebag on a personal level. Having said all that, despite Hagar's loose relationship with being truthful and his being prone to continual bouts of exaggeration what he had to say about the 2004 tour sounded accurate enough.

Hats off to you for reading it but my problem is that if you have so many lies in the book that can be checked then when he says things that we can't check they don't mean anything because they are likely to be more lies.

That said he does have an astonishing lack of self awareness or in plain words he is such a prick he doesn't even realise when he is broadcasting it. His previous (unpublished) official biography which large parts ended up online here many years ago showed him to be pretty appalling to the women in his life without him even realizing. My guess is that the writer and he got into issues over factual accuracy i.e. the writer wished to include some more.

The problem then is when reading you only believe the negative things he says about himself while rejecting anything that puts him in a good light. That may be accurate 90% of the time but it still seemed like too much of a work of fatty fiction to be worth trying to Sherlock my way through.

[DLR Bridge]

There's the schadenfreude angle he comes in from that I find ultra-dickish. He completely reveled in the fact that the brothers bailed on the Cabo club deal before it took off. Lots of tales he told probably are based in some form of truth (there's an ADKOT joke in there somewhere) but it's his arrogant spin that is most off putting.

[scott b]

Well according to the folks at melodicrock.com Daves contract is up with the band [ I think we all knew that ] and according to sources its highly unlikely they will record or tour again.They also state that Hagar and VanHalen are not in any negotiations. I say its eat em and smile time !!

[Terry]

Hats off to you for reading it but my problem is that if you have so many lies in the book that can be checked then when he says things that we can't check they don't mean anything because they are likely to be more lies.

That said he does have an astonishing lack of self awareness or in plain words he is such a prick he doesn't even realise when he is broadcasting it. His previous (unpublished) official biography which large parts ended up online here many years ago showed him to be pretty appalling to the women in his life without him even realizing. My guess is that the writer and he got into issues over factual accuracy i.e. the writer wished to include some more.

The problem then is when reading you only believe the negative things he says about himself while rejecting anything that puts him in a good light. That may be accurate 90% of the time but it still seemed like too much of a work of fatty fiction to be worth trying to Sherlock my way through.

Well, I tend to think Hagar wouldn't bullshit too much about what transpired in 2004 for the simple fact that he had people like Azoff, Mike Anthony and the like around to contradict him if he flat-out lied about the substance of it (notice how the Van Halens haven't challenged Hagar on any of it), so even though Hagar is demonstrably full of shit often, even a broken clock will still be right twice a day. I wouldn't doubt he may have exaggerated some aspects of it, but when I recall how Ed looked and played on that tour what Hagar had to say was certainly on the whole believable.

I snagged the book a couple years after it was initially released, along with Tony Iommi's Iron Man autobiography. Got them both at Barnes and Noble in the bargain section for $5 each. With the Hagar book I was initially only interested in the stuff from the Van Halen years, but ended up reading the whole thing (it wasn't like I was trying to translate Olde English from a Chaucer poem or something like that in terms of difficulty - I think I blew through the book in a few hours).

And, yeah, when reading the book it was surprising how clueless the guy was in terms of how his actions might have affected other people around him, particularly the women in his life. Like, the moment various people in his life on a personal level don't put all of Sammy's wants and needs before their own, somehow Hagar equates this with those people being fucked up in some way. Basically, it never dawns on Hagar that other people he knew who weren't rock stars had their owns wants, needs and desires out of life that they valued equally with Hagar's. And that was surprising in that regardless of what I thought of Hagar's music, his general vibe in public seemed to be one of a fairly easygoing (if self-absorbed) guy. In the book (as in other interviews of his) he proves himself to be as petty and vindictive as anyone else.

You're spot-on about the 'fatty fiction' part of it, too. Many times it outpaces fiction and delves right into delusion. Hagar honestly seemed to think he was some massively successful solo act prior to joining Van Halen, to the point where he thought by the time 1984 rolled around he on his own was as popular as Van Halen.

The other thing about Hagar's book that struck me was how similar it was to Paul Stanley's book in the sense of having a large emphasis on the moneymaking aspects of the career as opposed to the musical parts. Odd in that both of these guys have made music for a living for the majority of their lives, but the way both of them describe their process made me think they look at their music more as commerce or product they churn out than creative expression, since the focus seems so concentrated on how many albums were sold/how much money was made much more so than how inspired either of them were writing a particular tune. I mean, when a rock musicians autobiography tends to focus more on finance than music, what else is one to make of that but the conclusions I drew? Hagar is slightly less egregious than Stanley in that regard when comparing their books side by side (Stanley looks at what he does strictly as product...he may as well have been making widgets in a factory for all the passion he wrote regarding the musical process), but Hagar speaks more lovingly about his tequila business and more intricately about the specifics of his record deals than he does his songs.

[DONNIEP]

The thing about Hagar's love of making money via the "music business" doesn't reflect a lack of integrity or anything else. It is the music business - the whole point is to make money. So Slappy trying to maximize his take home or using the bidness solely to make money doesn't bother me at all. Think about it - we grew up expecting rock stars to be rich as shit and have Ferraris and Lambos and big houses and we expected those guys to basically do nothing aside from cut a record, tour, party 24/7, rinse repeat. I certainly never wanted my "rock stars" to be broke and miserable.

I have not read Sam's book. So I'm going by what I've read online. But I don't see why using rock to get paid is a bad thing. It IS a product, it's a thing you can sell to people and the more people that buy it then the better for the "artist". And every single person here goes nuts when Sammy exaggerates his record sales with VH compared to Dave's sales. Why? Why does it matter how many records they sold? If money doesn't or shouldn't matter and the only thing that matters is the product then who cares how many records got sold? See - it does matter because we equate success with dollars. So I have no problem with Sam actively trying to maximize his profit. That's kinda what it's all about.

The idea that "rock stars" do it for the love of the music is kinda silly. Look at Dave, for example. The dude apparently owns a house and a low rider and some dogs and that's about it. Who knows what he's done with the money he's made, aside from dropping a mill plus on the BBQ video. What he did do is use the music bidness to fund his love of traveling the world. The guy appears to love living in hotel rooms and only wants to travel and the music bidness allows him to do so. That's no different than Slappy using the bidness to promote his liquor businesses and find whatever it is he does outside of show time.

[DLR Bridge]

While I agree that money plays a big roll in one's vision at some point and will often be a barometer of success one has had in rock and roll, the integrity of the creative process is greatly compromised once money is all one cares about. To counter your point, Donnie, I'd say that Dave was putting art before dollars in the time frame you spoke of (bbq era). He invested a lot of time in the studio that yielded very little coin. There are twice as many Diamond Dave CD-type songs that we only know of through the bbq video. Even though the bulk of his work were covers in this era, the guy produced some creative renditions and I don't think he was imaging them selling like hot cakes. That's a shit ton more respectable than Hagar trying like hell to be a ham-fisted Jimmy Buffet knock off.

[Nitro Express]

There's a side of rock and roll that is all about money. Back in the days when people wanted to stick it to "The Man" it was cool to be some stoned, break of society's rules and get rich rock stars. In short making all the money without having to do what "The Man" told you to do was very rock and roll. Now it's politically incorrect to tell the man to fuck off. No. That's racist. Bend over and take it. Taking it up the ass is the new normal. Fly that rainbow flag high.

[Nitro Express]

The thing about Hagar's love of making money via the "music business" doesn't reflect a lack of integrity or anything else. It is the music business - the whole point is to make money. So Slappy trying to maximize his take home or using the bidness solely to make money doesn't bother me at all. Think about it - we grew up expecting rock stars to be rich as shit and have Ferraris and Lambos and big houses and we expected those guys to basically do nothing aside from cut a record, tour, party 24/7, rinse repeat. I certainly never wanted my "rock stars" to be broke and miserable.

I have not read Sam's book. So I'm going by what I've read online. But I don't see why using rock to get paid is a bad thing. It IS a product, it's a thing you can sell to people and the more people that buy it then the better for the "artist". And every single person here goes nuts when Sammy exaggerates his record sales with VH compared to Dave's sales. Why? Why does it matter how many records they sold? If money doesn't or shouldn't matter and the only thing that matters is the product then who cares how many records got sold? See - it does matter because we equate success with dollars. So I have no problem with Sam actively trying to maximize his profit. That's kinda what it's all about.

The idea that "rock stars" do it for the love of the music is kinda silly. Look at Dave, for example. The dude apparently owns a house and a low rider and some dogs and that's about it. Who knows what he's done with the money he's made, aside from dropping a mill plus on the BBQ video. What he did do is use the music bidness to fund his love of traveling the world. The guy appears to love living in hotel rooms and only wants to travel and the music bidness allows him to do so. That's no different than Slappy using the bidness to promote his liquor businesses and find whatever it is he does outside of show time.

Physical assets have to be managed. Owning a lot of property is a chore. You have to find people to manage it for you and you have to stay on top of them. It's much easier to have less and if you have less property and a lot of money in the bank you are one free son of a bitch and I think that's how Dave rolls. Sure he has his dad's old house and I'm sure he's got sentimental value for it and his sister lives there with him. She might look after the mojo dojo. I think the important part is to have good songs and put on a good live show. If you are into the Gene Simmons money trip fine. If you want to be a minimalist that's good too.

[Nitro Express]

I don't think you will see Sammy ever back in VH. Sammy don't need the money. Why would Ed have him back and why would Sammy want to be back?

[Seshmeister]

Sammy would do it because he would get to play to 10 000 people again and he could pretend again that his time in the band was equal to Dave's. He could look on his Van Halen career like a game of musical chairs where he wins because he's last out - at the moment he's a footnote and that will bug him with his insecure personality.

As for Eddie? Who knows?

[Seshmeister]

Well according to the folks at melodicrock.com Daves contract is up with the band [ I think we all knew that ] and according to sources its highly unlikely they will record or tour again.They also state that Hagar and VanHalen are not in any negotiations. I say its eat em and smile time !!

If you counted up Melodicrock statements and predictions over the last 15 years about Van Halen they are correct about 1 in 20 times.

Turns out that there isn't that much inside reliable information about Van Halen to be found in Tasmania...

So prepare to celebrate that rarest of things, an accurate melodiCrock post.

[Terry]

The thing about Hagar's love of making money via the "music business" doesn't reflect a lack of integrity or anything else. It is the music business - the whole point is to make money. So Slappy trying to maximize his take home or using the bidness solely to make money doesn't bother me at all. Think about it - we grew up expecting rock stars to be rich as shit and have Ferraris and Lambos and big houses and we expected those guys to basically do nothing aside from cut a record, tour, party 24/7, rinse repeat. I certainly never wanted my "rock stars" to be broke and miserable.

I have not read Sam's book. So I'm going by what I've read online. But I don't see why using rock to get paid is a bad thing. It IS a product, it's a thing you can sell to people and the more people that buy it then the better for the "artist". And every single person here goes nuts when Sammy exaggerates his record sales with VH compared to Dave's sales. Why? Why does it matter how many records they sold? If money doesn't or shouldn't matter and the only thing that matters is the product then who cares how many records got sold? See - it does matter because we equate success with dollars. So I have no problem with Sam actively trying to maximize his profit. That's kinda what it's all about.

The idea that "rock stars" do it for the love of the music is kinda silly. Look at Dave, for example. The dude apparently owns a house and a low rider and some dogs and that's about it. Who knows what he's done with the money he's made, aside from dropping a mill plus on the BBQ video. What he did do is use the music bidness to fund his love of traveling the world. The guy appears to love living in hotel rooms and only wants to travel and the music bidness allows him to do so. That's no different than Slappy using the bidness to promote his liquor businesses and find whatever it is he does outside of show time.

Doubtless making money is important...to anybody. And doubtless virtually every musician who embraces music as a profession/vocation wants to get paid...and hopefully paid well.

However, for me, my appreciation of the musicians I do like isn't based on their earning power. I find the business mechanics of popular music fascinating. One of the better rock bios out there is one is called KISS AND SELL, which concerned itself with the business dealings of KISS from 1976 to 1988.

Even having agreed with all of that, after reading the Hagar and Stanley books I was reminded of something Dave used to say in interviews years ago. Something along the lines of there being a lot of businessmen up onstage pretending to be musicians. In HIS book, Dave talked about the mechanics of the music business also, but did it in a way that was informative, witty and not really boastful. Juxtapose that with Hagar and Stanley, who spend large chunks of THEIR books cataloging their business success, far larger chunks than those dealing with the music that made them successful.