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Thread: Musings on Latest (Totally Unsubstantiated and Worn Out) Reunion Shite...

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    Musings on Latest (Totally Unsubstantiated and Worn Out) Reunion Shite...

    Posted this for amusement in the comments on VHND...now, your postulations, please...

    I'm a Dave loyalist, not a Sammy hater but definitely a "Sammy in VH" hater. Dave is VH. With that out of the way...

    We all know the latest rumble on this is nothing more than media clickbait - or is it? Let's perform an economic analysis. Class is in session.

    ---

    Let's all not lose sight of the fact that given current state, there are practically two VH markets - Dave VH, Sammy VH, or "swirly VH logo" versus "classic VH logo" if you will.

    This is a business challenge which few other bands face - the division of their fan base between two fundamentally different groups. While both are *** extremely *** loyal, theoretically they are never "happy customers" at the same time. This can be a negative, or a positive - depends on the band's (and their management's) decisions.

    It's safe to say that for the most part, the sales of music (and more importantly, the schwag) to those markets is proportionately inverse at any one moment, depending on the state of the band. Let's analyze the issues.

    (1) Ed has effectively countered this imbalance to protect his revenue stream with the successful push of his EVH gear (which is badass, btw).
    (2) Dave may or may not have several projects in the works (John 5, EEAS reunion, etc.).
    (3) Sammy has made his money several times over with booze and Cabo schwag, and basically says he doesn't even need to make music any longer and can retire.
    (4) Mikey has hot sauce, and a new Schecter bass series.
    (5) Wolfgang has Tremonti, maybe Alter Bridge, and who knows what else. Plus, Eddie Van Halen is his dad. Enough said.
    (6) Alex doesn't give a shit.
    (7) Valerie is enjoying a "revival" with her cooking shows, appearances, etc.
    (8) Even Kody the dog has a Facebook and Instagram following. Hell, if they released a Kody Van Halen stuffed doll, people would buy it. Enough said.

    Now, consider the following from a business/marketing perspective:

    (1) While everyone has their fair share of alternate revenue streams, they cannot ignore the glaring fact that there remains an untapped market right now for the dormant "swirly logo" fans. The only way to revive that market base (other than someone dying) is to push a reunion and a tour - IMO, new Van Hagar album would be advised but not mandatory (refer to my loyalty comment above).
    (2) The "classic logo" fans have been drained by three tours worth of tickets, only a handful of "new" (recycled) material, and a bunch of remasters. The only viable way to generate revenue from that group at this point is to either go full international with a tour, or release a new studio album with Dave.

    The only way, therefore, for the VH business to maximize both of those revenue markets would be to have a reunion/combination tour with Sammy-Mike, Dave-Sammy-Mike, Dave-Sammy-Mike-Wolfgang-Kody, or some combination thereof (whacky, I know, but stay with me on this).

    Following outcomes would be achieved:

    (1) This combines the revenue streams
    (2) This pushes yet another era of the band
    (3) As a secondary effect - because everyone is active again, everyone's alternate revenue streams also benefit from the publicity.
    (4) Even the Dave-Sammy feud, which we all know is inevitable and probably largely for show, is good for both markets.
    (5) Finally, from a lifespan perspective, this combined effort would (could) bring a natural closing chapter to the band (if that's the way they want it) - they all announce this is the last tour, they announce retirement
    (6) Both groups of fans walk away satisfied
    (7) There is unity in the universe - and in the bands' wallets.

    If you're awake at this point, feel free to discuss. Or not.

    Love you crazy fuckers. Mean it.
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    Well, I'm not really sure at this point exactly how the demographics of people these days willing to pay for 'things Van Halen' breaks down in terms of Roth vs. Hagar fronting the band.

    Put another way, does the swirly vs. classic Van Halen lineup battle even matter now?

    Suffice to say neither Hagar or Roth outside of Van Halen are going to do anything that is going to draw 10-15,000 people into an arena to see it. Not Chickenfoot. Not an EEAS reunion.

    Since 1995, Van Halen has done 5 tours. Only one of those was with a lineup recognizable to masses of people as a 'real' Van Halen lineup, and that was in 2004. The other tours either had Cherone on vocals or Wolfgang on bass. And none of the post-Cherone tours showcased a lineup where one could say everybody onstage was simultaneously knocking it out of the park, performance-wise. Depending on the tour either Ed was fucked up, or Dave wasn't singing properly. Despite all of that, none of the tours were a financial disaster for the band. It wasn't exactly a secret in 2015 that Roth wasn't really up to the task of fronting the band properly anymore, yet all of the dates had strong ticket sales.

    How do you break down the current Van Halen ticket buying audiences? What percentage of those people who attended the last three tours would ONLY go see Van Halen if Roth was fronting the band? How many people who went to see the band in 2004 were going specifically because the band were back together with Hagar? How many people would only go see Van Halen if Hagar was fronting the group, but wouldn't bother with a Roth-led Van Halen? How many people attending shows in the last 11 years would have went regardless of who (Roth or Hagar) was fronting the band, and are going primarily to see Eddie play?

    Is the band actually at a point in terms of box office drawing power where they even have to consider doing a final tour, and is it necessary to bring Michael Anthony back into the group to do that? I mean, it's not like the band suffered any at the box office for going out on the road without Anthony: it's not as if Anthony not being in the group was preventing them from doing any better than they did in terms of venue sizes/capacities.

    If anything, I think all of the misfires, bad choices and fumbled opportunities of the past 20 years have shown that Van Halen's musical legacy and legend is such that no matter how badly the band manages to fuck things up there are still plenty of people willing to pay good money to see 'Van Halen' du jour do their thing. At least for now. How long that lasts is something I can't really guess at. For me, what the band is able to do with Roth these days has reached the ceiling in terms of ambition and ability. They can continue to churn out more Greatest Hits tours with Roth and throw in a few more obscure/deep CVH cuts in the set lists of each subsequent tour. They can record some new material with Roth and go out on another tour, play a few new tracks, a few obscure tracks and the rest of the set list will be the usual tunes you'd expect to hear. It wouldn't exactly be a radical departure from what they've been doing since Roth rejoined the group, but so far it's proven lucrative.

    I don't really see the scenario of Anthony rejoining the group and then having a co-Roth/Hagar VH tour happening. I think Sammy would actually be up for that, but I don't think Roth would be and I don't really think the Van Halens would be, either. Because that means the Van Halens would have to play at least 2 hours + a night every night (assuming Roth and Hagar would each want to do an hour with the band). So who opens? More importantly, who closes?

    For me personally, about the only scenario I'd entertain paying money for at this point is if CVH (that means Anthony, not Wolfie) hits the road for one last tour. Mind you, that's not going to mean some massive improvement over the quality of the shows as they are today or over the last couple of tours. But if the band really wants to bring it on home and end on a high note, I think they need to bring it back to where it began.

    I think a full-on CVH reunion is what people want to see. And I'd bet even fans who preferred the group when Hagar was in it would turn up for such a tour. On the flip side, should the band announce a final tour and the lineup is to be the Van Hagar one, I'd bet those shows will still sell well too, as it would be the last chance to see Eddie play.
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    Ed sucks cock. If I have to endure another "era" of this retarded band I am going to drive to Ed's house and literally piss on his gate and video the whole thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DONNIEP View Post
    Ed sucks cock. If I have to endure another "era" of this retarded band I am going to drive to Ed's house and literally piss on his gate and video the whole thing.
    You are going about this all wrong. What does Ed love the mostest everest in the entire world? That is right, his electric geetars. I say you steal a few of them dar geetars and hold them hostage and you will be able to make Eduardo do whatever the fuck you want Donnie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetstream View Post
    You are going about this all wrong. What does Ed love the mostest everest in the entire world? That is right, his electric geetars. I say you steal a few of them dar geetars and hold them hostage and you will be able to make Eduardo do whatever the fuck you want Donnie
    His brain is so fried he wouldn't know the difference between the real Frankie and one of those overpriced replicas he's got hanging in his studio. Matter of fact, I bet I could put a cardboard cut out of Dave in his studio and he'd spend three days yelling and throwing empty beer bottles at it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DONNIEP View Post
    His brain is so fried he wouldn't know the difference between the real Frankie and one of those overpriced replicas he's got hanging in his studio. Matter of fact, I bet I could put a cardboard cut out of Dave in his studio and he'd spend three days yelling and throwing empty beer bottles at it.
    And telling it to leave, and when the cardboard failed to comply, try to push it out of the studio, fail to move it an inch & fall down on the floor wheezing from the exertion.
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    speakin' of wheezin', that damn kiwi got me drunk last nite.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PETE'S BROTHER View Post
    speakin' of wheezin', that damn kiwi got me drunk last nite.
    Did he take advantage of you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Izzy Moreno View Post
    Did he take advantage of you?
    Hopefully. Otherwise what's the point?

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    Exactly. If there wasn't sinful, primal, animalistic sex involved, I don't want to hear it.

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    i'll have to check the video

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    Oh, we got video!

    This is promising...

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    the only lickin' was the inside of beer cans

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    Quote Originally Posted by PETE'S BROTHER View Post
    the only lickin' was the inside of beer cans
    Fags

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    naw, ya lick them and they are a bitch to keep lit

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    Quote Originally Posted by PETE'S BROTHER View Post
    naw, ya lick them and they are a bitch to keep lit
    Viagra.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PETE'S BROTHER View Post
    speakin' of wheezin', that damn kiwi got me drunk last nite.
    Oh Boy.

    I Blame The Weather.:P
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    Quote Originally Posted by DONNIEP View Post
    Ed sucks cock. If I have to endure another "era" of this retarded band I am going to drive to Ed's house and literally piss on his gate and video the whole thing.
    That's funny. Bottom line is Van Halen just got off a tour and aren't going to do jack shit with anyone at the mike stand for probably 2 years. You can take that too the bank ! Ed is handing out cash too the old lady so she can shop while he sits on the couch watching Starsky And Hutch reruns ! He might think about getting off his ass and walk across the driveway too record but that couch is feeling as good as his bank account ! So.....maybe next year ? All caused by a fucking tweet his wife probably answered ! So I'm not going to hold my breath. If and when he does surface with Hag then I will. LOL ! Dave ? Unless he fucking starts singing better live I say he can stay home also. The clock is ticking and MY couch is feeling good itself to even bother with these guys almost anymore.
    Last edited by 78/84 guy; 02-12-2016 at 09:02 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 78/84 guy View Post
    That's funny. Bottom line is Van Halen just got off a tour and aren't going to do jack shit with anyone at the mike stand for probably 2 years. You can take that too the bank ! Ed is handing out cash too the old lady so she can shop while he sits on the couch watching Starsky And Hutch reruns ! He might think about getting off his ass and walk across the driveway too record but that couch is feeling as good as his bank account ! So.....maybe next year ? All caused by a fucking tweet his wife probably answered ! So I'm not going to hold my breath. If and when he does surface with Hag then I will. LOL ! Dave ? Unless he fucking starts singing better live I say he can stay home also. The clock is ticking and MY couch is feeling good itself to even bother with these guys almost anymore.
    The above is probably about as close to the reality of it as anything else one will read on this site.

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    Yeah, but how substantial is the Van Hagar market? That's a serious question.

    I think it's really just Sam's long-standing fans, who buy whatever else he puts out. I'm sure there will be some who were fans of VH before that who will lap up anything Ed does, but the numbers won't be filling out arena shows. Keep in mind that every tour they have done with Dave since 2007 has effectively been a Greatest Hits tour - specifically to bring out the casual fans who might have heard effing Jump on the radio back in '84.

    Put it this way - someone posted something on this site -- I think it was here -- a while ago with stats on radio plays and online streaming data that compared Dave VH with Sammy VH, and the latter (if the stats were accurate) were totally left in the dust. There must be a reason for that.

    There doesn't really seem to be a market for it, unless they want to tour theatres or clubs is my guess -- the kinda places Sammy plays. And my guess is that with Irving Azoff as their manager, they will be looking at how much cash they could make from a venture like that.

    I personally would never spend a penny to see, hear, or otherwise come within proximity of them. I'd rather saw my ears off than listen to Sammy in VH. I might even ceremonially burn my VH fan club membership card once and for all. You listening Ed -- yeah, you love us. We 'pay your rent'.

    But if EVH wants to further diminish the legacy, there's no one else does it better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by VHscraps View Post
    Yeah, but how substantial is the Van Hagar market? That's a serious question.

    I think it's really just Sam's long-standing fans, who buy whatever else he puts out.
    I'd say more substantial than the Roth solo market. That's a serious statement.

    It's really just Dave's long-standing fans, who don't even buy what he puts out - Diamond Dave, Skyscraper, Your Filthy Little Mouth.

    That said, it doesn't really matter. Van Roth has been milked dry, so Van Hagar is almost more certain to yield more profit than a third pass with Roth.

    And if that somehow doesn't pay Alex's bills, they can call Cherone & scrape the bottom of the barrel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Izzy Moreno View Post
    I'd say more substantial than the Roth solo market. That's a serious statement.

    It's really just Dave's long-standing fans, who don't even buy what he puts out - Diamond Dave, Skyscraper, Your Filthy Little Mouth.

    That said, it doesn't really matter. Van Roth has been milked dry, so Van Hagar is almost more certain to yield more profit than a third pass with Roth.

    And if that somehow doesn't pay Alex's bills, they can call Cherone & scrape the bottom of the barrel.
    No!! NO!!

    I know who they should hire to sing:



    Yes, the fag from Queen. That's who they need to drag (get it?) out on tour. I would buy tickets for every show around here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DONNIEP View Post
    No!! NO!!

    I know who they should hire to sing:

    Yes, the fag from Queen. That's who they need to drag (get it?) out on tour. I would buy tickets for every show around here.
    Hey man, this isn't about your fucking penis!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Izzy Moreno View Post
    Hey man, this isn't about your fucking penis!
    I see what you did there, you sneaky bastid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DONNIEP View Post
    No!! NO!!

    I know who they should hire to sing:



    Yes, the fag from Queen. That's who they need to drag (get it?) out on tour. I would buy tickets for every show around here.
    Gary Glitter is looking for a job ...


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    Not many posts that donnie can't gay up. Well done for fighting for your people , I support you.
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  34. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by VHscraps View Post
    Yeah, but how substantial is the Van Hagar market? That's a serious question.

    I think it's really just Sam's long-standing fans, who buy whatever else he puts out. I'm sure there will be some who were fans of VH before that who will lap up anything Ed does, but the numbers won't be filling out arena shows. Keep in mind that every tour they have done with Dave since 2007 has effectively been a Greatest Hits tour - specifically to bring out the casual fans who might have heard effing Jump on the radio back in '84.

    Put it this way - someone posted something on this site -- I think it was here -- a while ago with stats on radio plays and online streaming data that compared Dave VH with Sammy VH, and the latter (if the stats were accurate) were totally left in the dust. There must be a reason for that.

    There doesn't really seem to be a market for it, unless they want to tour theatres or clubs is my guess -- the kinda places Sammy plays. And my guess is that with Irving Azoff as their manager, they will be looking at how much cash they could make from a venture like that.

    I personally would never spend a penny to see, hear, or otherwise come within proximity of them. I'd rather saw my ears off than listen to Sammy in VH. I might even ceremonially burn my VH fan club membership card once and for all. You listening Ed -- yeah, you love us. We 'pay your rent'.

    But if EVH wants to further diminish the legacy, there's no one else does it better.
    Yeah, but you said it yourself, in that it's precisely the casual fans who probably comprise a majority of ticket buyers for Van Halen shows from 2004 up to the present.

    I recall in 2012 when the band busted out Women In Love, Outta Love Again and Girl Gone Bad that the audience was comparatively silent when those intros were played, doubtless because more people than not had no idea what those songs were.

    I tend to think there would be enough casual Van Halen fans + diehard Eddie Grunts who would see 'Van Halen' under any circumstances as long as Ed wanks out Eruption for the one billionth time + flaming Red Waboritas to add up to a well-attended final Van Hagar tour.

    Not necessarily saying they're gonna do multiple dates in 18,000 seaters, but enough to fill up 40 cities worth of 10,000 seat arenas for one night, especially if Azoff gets a decent or recognizable name act to open to the show.

    As a solo act on tour now, I doubt if Roth could even fill much more than a 2,000 seat venue on his own. Same with Hagar. Put them in Van Halen, it's a different ballgame.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vandeleur View Post
    Not many posts that donnie can't gay up. Well done for fighting for your people , I support you.
    Look here, you bald headed homo

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    Quote Originally Posted by VHscraps View Post
    Gary Glitter is looking for a job ...

    Lose the shoes and that's a bad ass outfit!! I swear to Baby Jesus I would wear that to The Walmart. And to church. On the same day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DONNIEP View Post
    Look here, you bald headed homo
    I grew my hair back
    Bud I support the alternate sexualities , by watching lots of lesbian porn.
    It's cool mate ,your friends are here for you , let it go ,embrace the cock you need

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    Quote Originally Posted by vandeleur View Post
    I grew my hair back
    Bud I support the alternate sexualities , by watching lots of lesbian porn.
    It's cool mate ,your friends are here for you , let it go ,embrace the cock you need
    First off, I ain't gay! And if I was I wouldn't be all gay about it.

    Now, I'm going to watch the Down Incognito video for the thousandth time. And don't talk about me while I'm gone. I know how you people are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DONNIEP View Post
    First off, I ain't gay! And if I was I wouldn't be all gay about it
    Mate no one in the friends of the cruiser admits it ......
    Enjoy your show ...... Iceman

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    Quote Originally Posted by vandeleur View Post
    Mate no one in the friends of the cruiser admits it ......
    Enjoy your show ...... Iceman
    I never liked Iceman. Although he did have nice hair.

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    Which one was iceman again ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by vandeleur View Post
    Which one was iceman again ?
    I shall not answer that question. I know what you're up to. Fag!


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    Quote Originally Posted by DONNIEP View Post
    I shall not answer that question. I know what you're up to. Fag!

    Damn ......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    Yeah, but you said it yourself, in that it's precisely the casual fans who probably comprise a majority of ticket buyers for Van Halen shows from 2004 up to the present.

    I recall in 2012 when the band busted out Women In Love, Outta Love Again and Girl Gone Bad that the audience was comparatively silent when those intros were played, doubtless because more people than not had no idea what those songs were.

    I tend to think there would be enough casual Van Halen fans + diehard Eddie Grunts who would see 'Van Halen' under any circumstances as long as Ed wanks out Eruption for the one billionth time + flaming Red Waboritas to add up to a well-attended final Van Hagar tour.

    Not necessarily saying they're gonna do multiple dates in 18,000 seaters, but enough to fill up 40 cities worth of 10,000 seat arenas for one night, especially if Azoff gets a decent or recognizable name act to open to the show.

    As a solo act on tour now, I doubt if Roth could even fill much more than a 2,000 seat venue on his own. Same with Hagar. Put them in Van Halen, it's a different ballgame.
    Nailed it. I do think Dave is a little more of a draw because well... Van Hagar only had so many songs that got radio AirPlay. But they were big songs no question. VH is officially an nostalgia act at this point. Even with a new album out. People want the old stuff. No different than say AC/DC ( whom I'm seeing tonight ) But the name will always draw in plenty of people regardless of who the singer is these days. The fact that this thread has gone nowhere on the Roth Army is kind of interesting to me. Tells me what I have thought since Dave decided not too bother trying too sound good. Does anyone really care ?
    Last edited by 78/84 guy; 02-14-2016 at 02:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VHscraps View Post
    Gary Glitter is looking for a job ...
    According to Google, he had it all along...


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    Quote Originally Posted by DONNIEP View Post
    First off, I ain't gay! And if I was I wouldn't be all gay about it.

    Now, I'm going to watch the Down Incognito video for the thousandth time. And don't talk about me while I'm gone. I know how you people are.
    What was the name of Tom Cruise's character in Cocktail?

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    Look, I just won't stand for these continued posts spreading malicious allegations about Tom Cruise's sexuality being unanswered by a vehement defense from someone...

    CLEARLY Tom Cruise isn't gay, just as CLEARLY Top Gun wasn't some subliminal tribute to barely suppressed homoerotic impulses. Cruise is just as straight as I am. Okay? Enough.

    Now that we have THAT settled, I'm off to watch the Top Gun volleyball scene with nothing on but my underwear and socks. Back in 5 (10 if I think about Kim Kardashian naked).

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