Prince is dead

[Terry]

You're a bit harsh here IMO, Terry. I mean, maybe your judgement about EVH is right, but to me Prince is way overrated in this thread. I've never felt overwhelmed while listening to his stuff, but rather like in a lousy nightclub on bad weed or adulterated alcohol and, mostly, bored. I'm not saying I'm right, but what I think about Prince's work.
And good on him if he really made those hot chicks feel over the moon like you see some during his Honky Tonk Women version that is just saturated, and partly off-beat guitar.

Anyway, that's often how it goes when a big one passes away.

I'm not even THAT big a fan of Prince (I'm far more likely to listen to Van Halen than Prince), but rest assured what I said is something I would have also said prior to Prince's death. Simply because that's the way I feel about it.

And speaking of Ed on a technical level, it is just a simple fact that Ed's technical ability on the instrument while not insubstantial is far from what I would consider 'masterful' or that of a 'virtuoso' when I consider the broad (i.e. beyond rock) spectrum of what the instrument has to offer...'virtuoso' and 'masterful' being two terms applied to Ed by others for years and will undoubtedly be reapplied when he dies.

Again, Ed is one of my favorite rock guitarists. Within that field, probably one of the all-time all-around greats. Prince as an artist, musician and songwriter was far ahead of Eddie Van Halen in terms of output and ability. It goes exactly back to what Jetstream said, in that Ed was great at one thing. And I'll make no bones about it in that Ed was great beyond mere Eruption-style solos in that he was a great rock guitarist in terms of composition, riffs and rhythms. Ed can't write worthwhile lyrics, can't sing well and can't produce/record his music in a manner that sounds better than when other producers/engineers do so. Outside of guitar, Ed can apparently play bass well, but for an accomplished guitar player that's not really a stretch. Ed can play keyboards, and I won't minimize the enduring qualities of what he did on Jump, but I'm not going to confuse that with Ed being one of the greatest rock keyboardists of all time.

Now, to be sure, people are doubtless going a bit overboard about Prince since he died. I'm not in terms of expressing how I felt about what Prince brought to the table for me as a talent. I'm not personally sad about his death (inasmuch as I didn't know the man) and outside of his Superbowl appearance 8 or so years back I haven't really paid attention to anything the guy has done since 1998. However, as an all-around prolific popular music talent Prince was the real deal. Ed was a great rock guitar player. And Ed only being a great rock guitar player - one of the all-time greats - isn't a slag or a slam or a criticism. It's just that by way of comparison, Prince was far more than ONLY a great rock guitar player in terms of sheer talent and ability.

[vandeleur]

Last time I seen prince his singer was better than ed's

[Jetstream]

If this isn't the epitome of stoopid I don't know what is:



This guy looks so stoopid he couldn't even get a job at The Walmart.

Bruce has done some major work but a majority of his concerts now, especially when he is doing a cover, just sounds like some drunk angry guy in a bar screaming when he sings and it is more cringe worthy to me than even Dave screeching his attempted high octaves and I roll my eyes when they say 'The Boss' sings it with such passion lol

[Jetstream]

If one wanted to put a Prince and Edward Van Halen comparison in another period of comparison and context, one could take classical music. Edward Van Halen is a virtuoso on electric guitar (and I stress electric because Ed sure the hell is no Andrés Segovia without his amp) and Prince would be more of a Mozart playing different instruments, writing far more unified compositions on his own and basically having a farther range of talent. I honestly believe that Dave's musical understanding in making Ed's assorted riffs and effects completed songs, his own odd mixture of eclectic music, made up 50% of classic Van Halen and not just his persona which really also defined their cultural appeal because Ed really can be as interesting as cardboard with his personality. Van Halen changed completely sound wise with Hagar because it really then became Hagar providing the foundation and not Dave for piecing together what Ed did. Of course, Ed is more than just "Eruption" and the Fair Warning LP is a testament to that but there to me is just a big gulf of ability that separates Prince from Ed musically. I think what hurts the most when one attempts to listen to Van Halen III is that one can identify the potential of the songs on the LP, though they style is not what one associates with Van Halen, and see Ed's limitations as a complete musician removed from being an electric guitar innovator. Ed did that LP by himself basically and he needed someone like Sting on some of those songs to make them flow and not sound like some fragmented expression. Yeah, some people went and said, "Ed is just experimenting with atonal sounds and letting out his inner John Cage" which to me is totally stretching it, Ed just cannot write completed songs by himself without some help. Granted with some help, or rather forceful guidance, Ed can be a major contributor and has offered some amazing rock music but he is limited it seems in his capacity to see direction in a song in my opinion. When I think of Ed writing music, it never seems like it is some enjoyable experience for him but more like some complicated task which really frustrates him when he is allowed as now to think about what he has to accomplish and Prince appeared like a guy who kept making music because it came easy and he could not get enough of it and in it he found joy and not some trial which to me is obvious by his vast catalog of music

[Jetstream]

If one wanted to put a Prince and Edward Van Halen comparison in another period of comparison and context, one could take classical music. Edward Van Halen is a virtuoso on electric guitar (and I stress electric because Ed sure the hell is no Andrés Segovia without his amp) and Prince would be more of a Mozart playing different instruments, writing far more unified compositions on his own and basically having a farther range of talent. I honestly believe that Dave's musical understanding in making Ed's assorted riffs and effects completed songs, his own odd mixture of eclectic music, made up 50% of classic Van Halen and not just his persona which really also defined their cultural appeal because Ed really can be as interesting as cardboard with his personality. Van Halen changed completely sound wise with Hagar because it really then became Hagar providing the foundation and not Dave for piecing together what Ed did. Of course, Ed is more than just "Eruption" and the Fair Warning LP is a testament to that but there to me is just a big gulf of ability that separates Prince from Ed musically. I think what hurts the most when one attempts to listen to Van Halen III is that one can identify the potential of the songs on the LP, though they style is not what one associates with Van Halen, and see Ed's limitations as a complete musician removed from being an electric guitar innovator. Ed did that LP by himself basically and he needed someone like Sting on some of those songs to make them flow and not sound like some fragmented expression. Yeah, some people went and said, "Ed is just experimenting with atonal sounds and letting out his inner John Cage" which to me is totally stretching it, Ed just cannot write completed songs by himself without some help. Granted with some help, or rather forceful guidance, Ed can be a major contributor and has offered some amazing rock music but he is limited it seems in his capacity to see direction in a song in my opinion. When I think of Ed writing music, it never seems like it is some enjoyable experience for him but more like some complicated task which really frustrates him when he is allowed as now to think about what he has to accomplish and Prince appeared like a guy who kept making music because it came easy and he could not get enough of it and in it he found joy and not some trial which to me is obvious by his vast catalog of music

And when I say Ed would be a virtuoso in a classical format, I meant to say in vein of Franz Liszt

[Terry]

With Van Halen 3, on an instrumental level there were some ideas that were of interest to me. But going back to what you said, without a producer and without a songwriting collaborator who brings a strong counterbalance (and who can sift through Ed's ideas and pick out what is listenable) to the creative process, left to his own devices Ed can't really come up with the goods. Not even in terms of sonics and sound production. Van Halen 3 was the closet thing to an album where Ed had complete control, and it deservedly undersold in comparison to the rest of the catalog. Far as a songwriting collaborator with a strong counterbalance and an ability to pick out what is worthwhile where Ed's ideas are concerned, clearly Sammy Hagar wasn't in that category. I have no doubt Hagar took whatever was presented to him, said "that's great, Ed" and sang over it.

I don't know if I'd quite agree that Ed was a virtuoso on the electric guitar. I think Ed was a virtuoso (or close to one) in the field of electric rock guitar. Hair-splitting, to be sure, but going back to my Nashville comparison if I go back and watch vids of Chet Atkins playing a Gretsch clean (with no distortion) with nothing other than his fingers (no pick) when Atkins gets going both in terms of speed and technique Atkins can do things that make Ed's high-E string picked trilling look almost amateurish...things that Ed couldn't do if he tried. Perhaps Atkins couldn't do the things Ed does, either...

Whatever. I'm not denying what Ed brought to rock guitar, but even within that field, Ed isn't the be-all end-all.

[cadaverdog]

Whatever. I'm not denying what Ed brought to rock guitar, but even within that field, Ed isn't the be-all end-all.

In other words he's not Jimmy Page.

[Satan]

In case anybody missed it, SNL aired a "Prince" episode last night. Sadly they put Jimmy Fallon in it, and some stupid Fred Armisen sketches, but the Prince performances themselves are Most Unholy indeed.....

http://www.hulu.com/watch/933621

[Nickdfresh]

Bruce Springsteen sucks and he's unattractive. And I still can't remember which song he had that was good...

So you wouldn't fuck him?

[Nickdfresh]

Bruce has done some major work but a majority of his concerts now, especially when he is doing a cover, just sounds like some drunk angry guy in a bar screaming when he sings...

Yeah? Your point?

[Jetstream]

Yeah? Your point?

It is popular culture music and the point is simple, he sounds like some angry drunk guy in a bar screaming a lot of times now when he's singing live. "Nebraska", "Born In The USA", and even "Magic" to name a few are great LPs but like Dave now... he tends to totally lose track about singing when on stage now in my opinion

[twonabomber]

In case anybody missed it, SNL aired a "Prince" episode last night. Sadly they put Jimmy Fallon in it, and some stupid Fred Armisen sketches, but the Prince performances themselves are Most Unholy indeed.....

http://www.hulu.com/watch/933621

Fallon is the face of NBC now? And acting like he's talking to an audience when there clearly is not one...lame.

[twonabomber]

Sheila E.: Saying goodbye to Prince 'the hardest thing I've ever had to do'

By Jon Bream Star Tribune
April 24, 2016 — 10:46pm


After flying in from Los Angeles, Sheila E. walked into Paisley Park late Thursday night.

“You kind of expect him to walk around the corner and say something and hug me. He’s always greeting you at the door. There was a stillness but at the same time it was his home. It was still warm. It wasn’t cold-feeling at all. It was actually beautiful.”

They were close friends for nearly 40 years. He wrote hit songs for her, she played in his band and the two were for a time romantically linked.

“This is not how it’s supposed to be. Things we talked about, he didn’t talk about death. He was always in the now. Let’s create. I thought we were going to grow old together,” the drummer, 58, said late Sunday afternoon, 24 hours after she’d attended a small, private memorial at Paisley Park. “I’m trying to be strong. He wouldn’t want me to sit here and cry. He’d want us to celebrate.”

Following the 57-year-old Prince’s death Thursday morning, Sheila E. became an in-demand media subject. She gave 25 interviews this weekend in Minneapolis and turned down requests for at least 50 more. Many took place in a studio inside the WCCO-TV building.

“It’s hard. It’s hard to talk about, but it’s also helping me,” she said in a soft monotone. “Sometimes in interviews or between interviews, I end up crying.”

She described the scene at Prince’s Saturday memorial. The room was dimly lit. Candles were burning as was always the case when Prince was around. His custom-made purple grand piano was sitting on the stage in the next room as it had been when he last opened Paisley to the public for a dance party on April 16.

Prince songs — recorded by him or other artists like Chaka Khan or the Time — were playing at the memorial.

“Some of those songs were hard to listen to,” said the drummer, her eyes moistening behind her thick black-framed eyeglasses. “I just started crying uncontrollably.”

Prince’s sister, Tyka Nelson, and brother, Omar Baker, greeted people. There were no formal speeches or service.

“There was not a lot of talking. You grabbed on to someone, hugged them and cried,” Sheila E. said.

Among the handful of mourners were model Damaris Lewis, purple-clad Larry Graham, bassist and Prince’s spiritual mentor, and Kirk Johnson, his aide-de-camp who ran Paisley and played drums in the band.

“I had his urn in my hand,” Sheila said, fighting back tears. “It was unreal.”

“Saying goodbye to him was the hardest thing I’ve ever had to do.”

She paused, took a breath — and paused again.

Sitting in a green room at WCCO-TV, the California percussionist was clearly spent, belying the sunniness of her multicolored top.

Dressed casually, the well-known shoe fashionista was wearing black tennis shoes — after two days in high heels.

‘Not even aspirin’

The topic turned to the unconfirmed reports by celeb news site TMZ and British tabloid the Daily Mail that Prince was addicted to painkillers.

“I’ve never seen him take anything, not even aspirin, in the 38 years I’ve known him,” Sheila E. said matter-of-factly, not defensively.

“Was he in pain? Yeah, he was in pain. I’m in pain every day. People don’t even know what it’s like to play two or three hours in a show. We’re athletes. Athletes go back out — it doesn’t matter if they’re hurt.

“Him jumping off those risers — is that going to injure his hip? Yeah, I think so. And in heels too. He was in pain. My back went out. I was partly paralyzed for two weeks, then my lung collapsed. You think it’s not going to hurt. Ask any musicians and artists. It’s hard to do what we do. We love it so much that the sacrifice is to go back out and do it again.

“I’ve got a brace I wear on my hand for the tendon in my thumb. I’ve got a tear in my shoulder. I’m in physical therapy right now. The older we get, it doesn’t get easier at all.”

Met Prince in 1978

Sheila Escovedo grew up in a family of percussionists. Her father, Pete, and Uncle Coke both played with Santana and the band Azteca. In her 20s, Sheila played with Lionel Richie, Marvin Gaye, Herbie Hancock and Diana Ross, among others.

Prince met Sheila when she was performing with her father in 1978. She sang backup on his “Let’s Go Crazy” on the album “Purple Rain” in 1984 and he, in turn, wrote hits for her, including “The Glamorous Life” and “A Love Bizarre.” After performing as the opening act on his Purple Rain Tour, she became the drummer in Prince’s band in 1987.

After that two-year stint, she launched a solo career specializing in Latin jazz. She also worked as bandleader for Magic Johnson’s TV, toured as part of Ringo Starr & His All-Star Band and recorded with Gloria Estefan, Beyoncé and Phil Collins, among others. All along, she’d occasionally sit in with Prince and his band.

Planning celebration

On Thursday morning in Los Angeles, Sheila E. received a text from her uncle, who works at a San Diego newsroom, about Prince’s death. She and her manager, Gilbert Davison (who used to be Prince’s manager), immediately booked a flight to the Twin Cities.

“We got on the plane and it was full of reporters and cameras. All the flights to Minneapolis were sold out,” she said.

Since the drummer has organized all-star concerts for charity, she has been charged with organizing the public musical celebration for Prince.

Although the planning is in the preliminary stages, she’s already looking at the place in Minneapolis with the most purple seats — U.S. Bank Stadium.

It doesn’t open until July 23.

“I know that,” she said, smiling just a little bit.

[Seshmeister]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2016/04/22/defying-description-zz-tops-billy-gibbons-on-prince-the-sensational-guitarist/

‘Defying description': ZZ Top’s Billy Gibbons on Prince the ‘sensational’ guitarist




Prince’s guitar-slinging skills were no secret. Whether at the Super Bowl, stealing a Rock Hall all-star jam or on his records, he could play it all. But to hear ZZ Top’s legendary frontman Billy Gibbons tell it, Prince wasn’t just a great guitar player. He was downright otherworldly. Gibbons spoke to The Post Friday about the guitar player who could stump even him.

So much has been said about Prince but I do think it’s important to remember that his guitar playing was, I don’t know, just sensational. Tell me how you’d describe it.

Well, to borrow your word, sensational is about as close a description of Prince’s guitar playing as words might allow. I believe that the feeling one was left with, if afforded the luxury of actually seeing Prince perform … we’d be looking for other superlatives. Because it’s almost got to the point of defying description.

You had an interesting encounter with Prince.

It was following the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame 25th anniversary celebration [in 2009]. They had a two night grand hurrah at Madison Square Garden and I was invited to perform with Jeff Beck. And following that appearance, I found myself back at the hotel and I wandered off in search of some late-night grub and my favorite 24-hour joint was shut down for unknown reasons. I tiptoed across the street to the Tiger Bar. I was just standing at the front and I was approached by a rather large gentleman and he said, ‘You’re wanted at the corner table.’ And there was Prince sitting all by his lonesome. And I gave him a brief tip of the hat and sat down and said, ‘Hey man, it’s so good to see you.’ He said, ‘It’s so good to see you. Let’s talk about guitar playing.’ I said, ‘Why not?’ And in the next two hours we really dove into the depth of his intent, interest and focus toward technique and tone. I left that evening even more mesmerized than I’d previously been, just knowing the sincerity that Prince kept toward his playing, his performing and his all-around showmanship.

You’re a little bit older, you come from Texas and I’d imagine you first learned about Prince in the early ’80s, when you were both MTV stars.

As you may remember, he began bubbling up without a lot of advance fanfare. There was just this vague knowledge of this new guy on the scene called Prince. And then, of course, we all got our world rocked when “Purple Rain” showed up at the theaters. Even today, I’m struggling to try and emulate that guitar introduction to “When Doves Cry.” It’s just a testament to his extraordinary technique.

Wait. When you say emulate — you mean you try to play it and you can’t?

I continually come back to attempting to piece together each and every one of those segments. And it’s very short. It’s not an extended solo by any means. But the way it is delivered. There’s certainly no way to write it. You’ve just got to dive in and feel it to see if you could come close. This might be a little off the subject, but just this morning, Andy Langer sent me a link to Prince on YouTube performing “Honky Tonk Woman.” I had never seen it. I don’t know if there’s a fixed date that could be attached to it. I would encourage you to check it out. Here, within the four minute time span, you really get a sense of urgency that was behind his dedication to playing.

Technique. You’ve said that a few times.

Three times.

Yes, three. That’s a very particular word. Prince is somebody we always thought of as flash, beautiful, almost touched by something otherworldly. But when I hear the word technique, I think of practice, intellect, study.

Yes, and we can only surmise that there were a great number of hours in private where he was developing ways to approach the guitar that ultimately led to his prowess over the instrument. I bring this up over the years. My friendship with Prince was made known. There was hardly a day that went by if Prince’s name came up in the conversation, little did they give credit to his guitar playing. It was more about the flash. The showiness. There are a few repeatable examples that were fortunately caught on film or record that will settle the score once and for all. When I sat down with Prince that fateful evening in Manhattan, he was really touched by the fact that I knew quite a bit of his guitar playing … It was so funny because there was a legion of Brazilian carnival dancers that had invaded the club and they had taken over the bar. They were dancing on the bar … this was all going on in the background. Prince was unfettered. He just wanted to talk about playing.
Remembering Prince, a life in pictures
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Prince, the legendary musician from Minneapolis, dies at 57.

I wonder if because he had so much style, whether he ever felt that his playing was overshadowed.

Oh yeah. In fact, that entered the conversation. He asked me, ‘Does your beard get in the way like some of my costumes?’ And I was stunned momentarily and I thought about it and said, ‘You know, perhaps so.’ But then he grabbed my arm and said, ‘Don’t get me wrong, I’m okay with it.’

Last thing. That night, two hours of guitar talk. Is there anything specifically you remember telling him or him telling you about basically how to play?

I don’t know about anything that specific. I was quite flattered that he knew specific song titles that had a specific guitar sound. He said, I’ve really enjoyed some of the work that showed up on that monster hit of yours, “Eliminator,” the sound of “Gimme All Your Lovin’” He went on to cite a number of titles. I said, ‘Okay, I could give you some amplifier settings, I could give you some guitar strings.’ I said, ‘Why don’t you tell me about ‘When Doves Cry’? He just smiled. ‘That one gets me too.’

I didn’t know how to take that. Was he was suggesting he stumbled upon it by accident or he didn’t have words to describe it? I’m just happy to know that he took it as a compliment.

[private parts]

Funny thing is one of the first things I did last week was go to youtube and see if anybody knew how to play intro to "Doves Cry".
Not much out there. Sounds like Eddie Van Hendrix or some alien hybrid.