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Thread: David Lee Roth people vs. Sammy Hagar people

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    David Lee Roth people vs. Sammy Hagar people

    A very astute article.


    http://nepascene.com/2016/07/but-i-d...=socialnetwork


    BUT I DIGRESS: David Lee Roth people vs. Sammy Hagar people – the rise and fall of Van Halen




    I’ve decided that whenever I meet a new person, I am going to use one simple, succinct question whose answer will decide whether or not any further discourse with said person will be worth my time.

    This question is a simple, three-word utterance that defines and encapsulates the personality traits of each individual based on their answer, A or B.

    The question is: “Dave, or Sammy?”

    The Dave camp are fun-loving, can take a joke, are self-deprecating, never take themselves too seriously, are infinitely comfortable with who they are, and unaffected by how others perceive them.

    Dave people are rebellious; they speak with wit and wisdom. They’re never precious about their abilities or boastful about their shortcomings.

    Dave people never take themselves or what they do too seriously, while ultimately being serious about what they do.

    Dave people live in the moment; they party like it’s their job, but don’t have to build a resort to do so.

    Dave people set their own style, create their own trends. Dave people don’t follow; they lead.

    Dave people aren’t necessarily virtuosic in their respective fields, but they do it with an earnestness and zeal that virtuosos can’t begin to comprehend, making up for their shortcomings with pure, unadulterated style and soul!

    Like Dave himself, Dave people truly rock ‘n’ roll in the original spirit of rock ‘n’ roll – authority-bucking, category-busting, rebelliously fervent with a total disregard for complacency and an absolute disdain the status quo and a cavalier attitude regarding their approval.

    Dave people rule.

    Sammy people… well…

    Sammy people will do or be whatever it takes to fit in. They will complain about a group or individual out of jealousy, but sing their praises and deny they ever had a cross word for them, should the party in question show them even the slightest bit of acceptance.

    Sammy people go along to get along. They never, ever go against the grain and sneer at those who do. Not out of a sense of superiority, rather out of a deep longing to be a bright, shining individual and a realization that they simply never will be.

    Sammy people are conformists to the core, but go well out of their way to disguise their complacency with a dash of red to try and appear interesting, meanwhile doing exactly as they are told.

    Sammy people follow tried and true formulas to achieve their ends, never once straying from the path to experiment or explore, and the regret they internalize over this manifests itself in overwhelmingly smarmy “Look at me! Love me!” behavior (and a lot of superfluous “Woooooo!”s).

    Sammy people make no effort to shine as individuals. They blaze no trails, but tread happily upon trails blazed by others, all the while proudly stating how well they walk in others’ shoes.

    The original Van Halen was the therapy necessary to get me through adolescence. Without them, I would never have survived.

    Their music gave me a feeling of invincibility. Dave gave me a new paradigm. He allowed me to allow myself to be myself. Dave granted me permission to be mouthy, loud, boisterous, vivid. Dave let me know that it was better than just OK to be an eccentric in a small town full to the brim with conformists; rather, it was mandatory!

    Dave gave me insight as to how to be mushy and romantic, while never losing the rough edge that attracted the object of my affection to me in the first place.

    Vah Halen during Dave’s original tenure was an alien force, a style of music that offended the ears of my otherwise totally accepting hippy parents, finally giving me a platform for rebellion! (Do you know how hard it is to be a rebellious kid when you have hippy parents? Those people love everything!)



    Dave-era VH was the brave face I wore during young love breakups (the kind where you’re actually heartbroken and filled with longing, as opposed to only worrying about which of your goods and how much of your dough the vacating party will be allowed to abscond with).

    Dave and Edward were originals in an era of carbon copies. They set a precedent for infinite possibility if one was willing to break out of the mold. They were my heroes, with Dave their undisputed leader.

    So, when I heard Dave had left, I was, of course, crestfallen. But I held out hope. I’d enjoyed the camp and covers of “Crazy from the Heat,” and I was certain Edward would continue to produce bone-crushing rhythm tracks (despite the few hiccups of 1984). So, I figured it’d be a win-win.

    As a matter of fact, when it was announced that Sammy had taken the lead singer spot, I was initially stoked. We’re talking about a guy who contributed to the “Heavy Metal” film soundtrack, had fronted Montrose, wrote one of my all-time favorite guitar licks in the form of “Three Lock Box” and, most importantly to me, had been a part of one of the best supergroups in history, HSAS.

    So my disdain does not extend to folks who answer, “Sammy, but before VH.”

    But when my fellow VH superfan, El Diablo (I’ve mentioned him in previous columns. He is the best sort of evil. For example, after a brief stint in rehab, I broke out, made my way home and to a kegger, where El Diablo, being the first to spot me, loudly and gleefully sang, “Guess who’s back in circulation!” upon spotting me coming up the path), brought a brand new, shrink-wrap still on it, cassette over to my house, along with his massive, 10 C-cell battery-eating portable cassette player, affectionately known as “Mr. Box” (the predecessor was called “Refrigerator Box,” due to its unwieldy size), everything changed.

    The instant “Good Enough” began, it was over. Sammy’s new über cheesy persona reared its ugly head within a millisecond when his contrived, overproduced attempt at Dave-ism “Hello baaaabaaaayyyy!” fell from the speakers with a pathetic plop.

    “Well, let’s give the next track a listen. Maybe it’s awesome!” …Um, no.

    It wasn’t awesome. It was “Why Can’t This Be Love” (which we immediately dubbed “Why Can’t This Be Over”).

    Before the way-too-long synth intro was over, El D. had yanked the cassette from Mr. Box’s orifice, grabbed a hold of the ribbon of tape from where it was exposed, and yanked it over and over until the entire volume was spread out on my lawn like the unraveling of an ugly Christmas sweater.

    When he was done, he dropped his hands to his lap with a slap, shook his head, and said, “Well, it’s over.” And it was.

    Gone was the embodiment of the mouthpiece for the angry young men we were. We’d lost our touchstone to the universe; our connection had been severed. We had been left alone to fend for ourselves, rudderless outcasts whose leaders had abandoned us and taken up the flag for the other side.

    So, if my love for Dave-era VH and my contempt for the Sammy era has seemed irrational to you in the past, perhaps this will clear it up.

    Your musical heroes are your entire world when you’re a 17-year-old juvenile delinquent who is locked in a vacancy. When they betray what you love about them, it’s un-fucking-forgivable. Even after 30 years.

    Dave got progressively more cabaret, Edward played more and more synth and less and less guitar, Sammy got more and more soft, eventually losing his hard rock edge permanently (so much so that he seems absolutely over his head in Chickenfoot, with his usually fine lyrical prowess reduced to a series of woooos and sophomoric references to partying and boobs), and VH lost the invaluable Michael Anthony.

    It was a fucking disaster on all fronts, except for the Top 40, status quo, think what they tell you to think, letter-wearing masses. They loved it.

    That fact in and of itself is enough of an indication to anyone with even a modicum of individuality to realize the mighty had fallen. The “Van Halen never had a No. 1 song until Sammy joined” argument only serves to bolster my belief that they sold the fuck out. Period.

    So, from this experience, I have jumped to the following conclusions:

    Sammy people settle for “Good Enough.”
    Sammy people want to know if time will tell if they’ll stand the test of time… ugh.
    Sammy people feel the constant need to ask, “Why Can’t This Be Love?”
    Sammy people feel the need to invent “Cabo Wabo,” when Cabo San Lucas actually exists.
    Sammy people get “Spanked.”
    Sammy people overindulge in “Poundcake.”
    Sammy people demand everything “Right Now.”
    Sammy people whine that it’s “Never Enough.”

    Dave people are “Atomic Punks.” They “Light Up the Sky;” they’re “On Fire.”
    Dave people will “pay you for it, what the fuck?”
    Dave people high kick into old age.
    Dave people call out the Kevin Dubrows of this world for filling their Jack Daniel’s bottles with iced tea on the stage of life.
    Dave people sing the praises of “Beautiful Girls,” “Women in Love,” even when they’re really only “semi-good lookin’.”
    Dave people can read postcards in a tourist trap and turn them into “Secrets.”
    Dave people get “The Full Bug” and can spot “Drop Dead Legs” from a mile away.
    Dave people “Dance the Night Away.”
    Dave people can say with gusto “I’m the One.”
    Dave people are “Runnin’ with the Devil.”
    Dave people can’t wait to “Feel Your Love Tonight.”
    Dave people “hit the ground runnin’.”

    Dave spoke directly to this broke-ass small town hood with no future.

    “We was broke and hungry on a summer day.
    They sent the sheriff down to try and drive us away.
    We was sittin’ ducks for the police man.
    They found a dirty faced kid in a garbage can.
    And I’m alone, I’m on the highway, wanted dead or alive, dead or alive.
    Broken down and dirty, dressed in rags, a from the day my mama told me, ‘Boy, you pack your bags.’
    Send the mayor down in his pickup truck.
    The jury look at me, say, ‘Outta luck.’
    And I’m alone, I’m on the highway, wanted dead or alive, dead or alive.
    Now, I’m broken down and dirty, dressed in rags, a from the day my mama told me, ‘Boy, you pack your bags.’
    We was sittin’ ducks for the police man.
    They found a dirty faced kid in a garbage can.
    And I’m alone, I’m on the highway, wanted dead or alive, dead or alive.”
    The thing is, Dave was one of us.

    Sammy was one of them.





    But I Digress features musical ramblings, rumblings, rants, ruminations, and reviews from your friendly neighborhood blowhard. Look for it on Wednesdays on NEPA Scene.
    by John 'Fud' Zavacki

    John "Fud" Zavacki has been a working musician since the age of 15. He owns well over a thousand LPs in every musical genre and erroneously presumes this makes his opinion noteworthy.
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    Less words.
    More cowbell.
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    "The Van Halen never had a No. 1 song until Sammy joined” argument only serves to bolster my belief that they sold the fuck out. Period."
    Poor argument, because "Jump" is their only number one... LP charting is the one
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    Saw that article and it couldn't be more correct. (Accept for the #1 song error). It really sums up what the majority of Van Halen fans thought/think.
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    Truth be told, when 1984 was released, the snotty yuppie shits in my school who had previously thought Van Halen was just "stoner music" started saying how much they liked Jump.

    When 5150 was released, all of those straight-laced preppy fucks started blathering about how much they now loved Van Halen.

    A 'good enough' reason to stop listening to Van Halen right there.

    Van Halen just plain lost their balls, guts and fury after Roth left. Whenever they tried to do hard rock tracks with Hagar, it was like a half-assed attempt to conjure what used to come so naturally and easily when Roth was in the group.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetstream View Post
    "The Van Halen never had a No. 1 song until Sammy joined” argument only serves to bolster my belief that they sold the fuck out. Period."
    Poor argument, because "Jump" is their only number one... LP charting is the one
    Of course only Thriller kept 1984 at #2 for 5 weeks and it sold nearly twice as many copies as the #1 Van Hagar album...

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    The whole "who had more #1 albums" biz, even putting aside claims that the Van Hagar album stats were manipulated by SoundScan...or that CVH sold more records anyway...I mean, who gives a shit?

    Even if it turned out Van Hagar had sold more records than CVH, knowing that fact wouldn't make Van Hagar's music sound any better to my ears or make me reassess their output.

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    Pretty much the opposite.

    The reason that it's so difficult to avoid getting drawn into that crap is purely because of Hagar lying about it in just about every interview he's done for 30 fucking years now...

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    I can make maybe one pretty good album out of all the "Van Hagar" material. Now, if you want to remove the vocals and give me just the instrumentals, that would improve much of "Van Hagar".

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    Loathe as I am to talk about music on here
    After hearing 5150 I have the same opinion of people who listened to further cd's as I have of people who touch wet paint because they read a do not touch wet paint sign.... Tough shit you were warned its your own daft fault .
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    Pretty much the opposite.

    The reason that it's so difficult to avoid getting drawn into that crap is purely because of Hagar lying about it in just about every interview he's done for 30 fucking years now...
    The truth is never good enough for Hagar.

    I'll be fair to the guy: changing lead singers in a successful rock band (and having a level of success appreciable to that of the original lineup) is no easy feat. When I think of the amount of times such a move has been made successfully in commercial terms, there aren't many examples that come to mind in comparison to the amount of times such a change flopped. Granted, by the time 5150 was released, Van Halen were already a multi-platinum selling act and Hagar had just come off of the biggest album of his solo career, so a certain level of success was guaranteed.

    In the case of CVH vs. Van Hagar album sales, I'll even concede that some of the 2:1 margin was probably due to people repurchasing/upgrading the CVH catalog as album formats changed from vinyl to cassette to cd, whereas Van Hagar's first album was released at a point where cassettes were probably the biggest selling format over vinyl and cd's were becoming more and more available.

    But Van Hagar didn't bomb in commercial terms. Even putting aside the "inherited sales" of the first album/CVH record format upgrade advantages to one side, Van Hagar continued to sell a respectable amount of records with each subsequent release. And it wasn't just a case of them selling a massive amount of records with the first week of each new release - enough to push it to #1 in the charts - and then dropping off after the initial burst. Van Hagar sold...what, 20 million records? Yeah, each subsequent release sold a little less than the one before it, but considering the years those albums were released, the same can be said for a lot of other 1980s acts (David Lee Roth included).

    Van Hagar also continued to record and tour successfully throughout the early to mid 1990s, despite the onslaught of grunge and changing tastes of the general public. I mean, Balance was selling well and the tour sold well, and this was in 1994. By that point, one really can't say Balance was benefitting from any inherited fan base leftover from the David Lee Roth era. And the band were still playing good-sized venues in the US, whereas a lot of their 1980s contemporaries were back to playing clubs (those that could even manage to get a record label to still release an album of theirs in 1994).

    So from Hagar's point of view, I think the guy doesn't have anything to be ashamed of strictly in terms of the truth of what happened with his tenure in Van Halen.

    But the truth, for whatever reason, is never good enough for him.

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    ok Thanks Terry nice reading... but next time try keeping it less than 100 words .......make no mistake I read it all ...because it was from you but you are testing my short attention span......DLR all the way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    The truth is never good enough for Hagar.
    Sounds like a perfect record or song title for Hagar... The Truth is Never Good Enough

    It was differences that made it so different...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    I'll be fair to the guy: changing lead singers in a successful rock band (and having a level of success appreciable to that of the original lineup) is no easy feat. When I think of the amount of times such a move has been made successfully in commercial terms, there aren't many examples that come to mind in comparison to the amount of times such a change flopped.
    CVH with Dave was a tribe from zero to hero, from backyards to arenas. As you mention 1985 VH was already on the map as a successful brand in the first place. Sam had a flourish solo career and VH was a maiden bed for him. The effort of Van Hagar was to attract a whole new generation fanbase and the key to their success.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Etienne View Post
    CVH with Dave was a tribe from zero to hero, from backyards to arenas. As you mention 1985 VH was already on the map as a successful brand in the first place. Sam had a flourish solo career and VH was a maiden bed for him. The effort of Van Hagar was to attract a whole new generation fanbase and the key to their success.
    Maiden bed? Is that like a virgin pallet?
    That last statement makes me wonder how much longer would CVH have lasted if Dave hadn't quit when he did. If the next CVH album was anything like 5150 I think quite a few of their older fans would have bagged on that shit just like they did with 5150. Too pop. Too Journeyish. Then again the same fans that like Van Hagar would have probably like a more Journeyish CVH.
    Last edited by cadaverdog; 07-31-2016 at 05:21 PM.

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    I think a lot of that was Mick Jones stepping into some of the space Roth left.

    Compare a Mutt Lange produced Bryan Adams album to one he did with Def Leppard.

    Sometimes producers are the most important influence on an album and remember the reason Roth left in the first place was the Van Halens being on a serious booze binge...
    Last edited by Seshmeister; 08-01-2016 at 08:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post

    Sometimes producers are the most important influence on an album and remember the reason Roth left in the first place was the Van Halens being on a serious booze binge...
    I thought he admitted he quit to make a movie that never got made in an interview years ago. Sounds like Dave's been doublie dipping at the excuse bar.

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    Link?

    In his book he claimed it was the waiting with Templeman for them to turn up for weeks. This is suppported a bit by the fact that Templeman did EEAS but the movie thing may have been a factor as well as unhealthy sized egos and all sorts of other shit and resentments built up over the years.
    Last edited by Seshmeister; 08-01-2016 at 09:55 PM.

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    Awesome.
    I live by the same creed.
    Breasts,
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    Quote Originally Posted by vandeleur View Post
    Loathe as I am to talk about music on here
    After hearing 5150 I have the same opinion of people who listened to further cd's as I have of people who touch wet paint because they read a do not touch wet paint sign.... Tough shit you were warned its your own daft fault .
    I remember the day very well....

    5150 and the Stones' "Dirty Work" were released on the same day in 1986. Bought them both on vinyl that day. It was devastating to be so disappointed by two of my favorite bands at the same time
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    Link?

    In his book he claimed it was the waiting with Templeman for them to turn up for weeks. This is suppported a bit by the fact that Templeman did EEAS but the movie thing may have been a factor as well as unhealthy sized egos and all sorts of other shit and resentments built up over the years.
    If I looked hard enough at the hundreds of interviews Dave has done since that happened I might find the one admitting the movie was the reason he quit but then again I might not. I'm sure there was more to it but I doubt you'd get a straight answer out of Roth or the brothers if you asked them. Sammy would tell you what he thought happened but he wasn't there. Mikey might have an unbiased answer but I'm not sure who he has given it to. I think Valerie Bertinelli had a part in it too. I'm not saying she was the main cause but I've heard she encouraged Ed to "stand up to" Dave because he (or she or both) felt Dave was pushing Ed around. Maybe somebody else has the straight truth on what happened and can provide a link.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    and remember the reason Roth left in the first place was the Van Halens being on a serious booze binge...
    That couldn't be further from the truth.

    Dave fucking left the band because CFTH sold a zillion copies, the videos were being played over and over on MTV, and Dave's head got even bigger than it already was. He also got the bright idea that it would be easy to turn a 3 minute video into a major motion picture. Fortunately, the studio that supposedly was going to back this horrendous idea, realized what a mistake it would have been, and did what Clichegar's Dad should have done, pulled out. Don't believe it was a bad idea? Go watch "No Holds Bar-B-Que", and report back to me.

    Just because this is a DLR forum, doesn't mean you have to twist the truth and absolve Dave from his responsibility for fucking up the greatest band ever. It's no secret the guy is a colossal fucking douchebag. Just look at the trail of former friends, employees, and band members left in his wake. Try to find ANYONE that was ever once associated with this guy, that is still associated with him. I bet fucking Russell has already run away from home!

    Damn Sesh. I can understand some of these other Dave suck dicks wallowing in the half truths of Dave, but I never expected that from you.

    We can bash Clichegar for turning VH into a mostly sappy love song band that cared more about Top 40 hits than doing anything remotely original or groundbreaking, but had Dave never had the success of CFTH, I'm betting he'd never have left VH. Oh, and if you want to claim the VH brothers didn't want to work, and that's why Dave did CFTH, I ain't buying that bullshit either. How fucking much hard work was it for Dave to slap together a few cover songs? Shit, he didn't even do a full fucking albums worth of covers.

    Now let's talk about more recent stuff in regards to this band. They have all been lazy as fuck since reuniting. Rehashed old songs for an album? LAZY! A horrible version of a live album? LAZY! Dave's vocal performances on the last couple of tours? LAZY! The production of the show on the last couple of tours? LAZY!

    This fucking band has to be by far, the worst band in the world, to be a super fan of. I blame all those motherfuckers for that. Not just the brothers. Not just Dave. All of them. They fucking suck, and they can suck my fucking balls.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Halen View Post
    This fucking band has to be by far, the worst band in the world, to be a super fan of. I blame all those motherfuckers for that. Not just the brothers. Not just Dave. All of them. They fucking suck, and they can suck my fucking balls.
    Don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Halen View Post
    That couldn't be further from the truth.

    Dave fucking left the band because CFTH sold a zillion copies, the videos were being played over and over on MTV, and Dave's head got even bigger than it already was. He also got the bright idea that it would be easy to turn a 3 minute video into a major motion picture. Fortunately, the studio that supposedly was going to back this horrendous idea, realized what a mistake it would have been, and did what Clichegar's Dad should have done, pulled out. Don't believe it was a bad idea? Go watch "No Holds Bar-B-Que", and report back to me.

    Just because this is a DLR forum, doesn't mean you have to twist the truth and absolve Dave from his responsibility for fucking up the greatest band ever. It's no secret the guy is a colossal fucking douchebag. Just look at the trail of former friends, employees, and band members left in his wake. Try to find ANYONE that was ever once associated with this guy, that is still associated with him. I bet fucking Russell has already run away from home!

    Damn Sesh. I can understand some of these other Dave suck dicks wallowing in the half truths of Dave, but I never expected that from you.

    We can bash Clichegar for turning VH into a mostly sappy love song band that cared more about Top 40 hits than doing anything remotely original or groundbreaking, but had Dave never had the success of CFTH, I'm betting he'd never have left VH. Oh, and if you want to claim the VH brothers didn't want to work, and that's why Dave did CFTH, I ain't buying that bullshit either. How fucking much hard work was it for Dave to slap together a few cover songs? Shit, he didn't even do a full fucking albums worth of covers.

    Now let's talk about more recent stuff in regards to this band. They have all been lazy as fuck since reuniting. Rehashed old songs for an album? LAZY! A horrible version of a live album? LAZY! Dave's vocal performances on the last couple of tours? LAZY! The production of the show on the last couple of tours? LAZY!

    This fucking band has to be by far, the worst band in the world, to be a super fan of. I blame all those motherfuckers for that. Not just the brothers. Not just Dave. All of them. They fucking suck, and they can suck my fucking balls.
    I think Roth and the Van Halens had gotten on each other's nerves for years, were never particularly friendly to begin with and it just came to a head in early 1985. The Van Halens never thought much of Roth's vocal abilities from the day he started playing with them, and by the time 1985 rolled around doubtless Roth had a huge ego. Apparently Roth ALWAYS had a huge ego, even before the band got signed, but when CFTH got released and Roth was at his career peak in terms of public relevance I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Roth just plain felt he didn't need to deal with the Van Halens anymore: that the friction of working together/compromising with them wasn't worth the musical results anymore, and Roth probably felt he would be better off going on his own and being able to call all the shots.

    Basically, Roth and the Van Halens couldn't work together anymore because they couldn't stand being in the same room with one another.

    But Roth quit the band in 1985. There's no doubt about that.

    To be a super fan of Van Halen since 1996 has been a masochistic undertaking, to say the least. And I'd have to agree that the output of the band since Roth rejoined in late 2006 has overall been underwhelming, from Ed not being in decent playing shape on the first reunion tour, to Roth's waning/shitty live vocal output from the 2012 up to today, to the live album released last year chock full of shitty lead vocals (the only upside being that clearly it wasn't touched up/re-recorded post-performance). ADKOT was about the best thing to result from Roth rejoining the band.

    Basically, the band blew their best opportunity to reunite and come back strong, which was in 1996. They diddled away too many years between 1996 and 2006 at a point where time wasn't on their side and they didn't have it to waste. Ed took himself to the brink of death with drugs and alcohol, and Dave frittered away a decade waiting for the band to reunite. By the time they got their shit together, there wasn't much juice left in the tank: now, they're running on vapors. A lame way for them to end, but this band has been consistently fucking up for 20 years, so it won't be shocking when they finally go out with a whimper. The 2015 tour was the first tour I couldn't be bothered going to, because what Van Halen currently have left to offer live is no longer worth my time and money. Sad but true.

    Luckily, the music they recorded from 1978 to 1984 still resonates like a motherfucker and delivers the goods the band no longer can.
    Last edited by Terry; 08-02-2016 at 09:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Halen View Post
    Don't believe it was a bad idea? Go watch "No Holds Bar-B-Que", and report back to me.
    They fucking suck, and they can suck my fucking balls.
    We used to have the CFTH movie script here.
    It was ridiculous. There is no way that would have worked.
    Lol at the sucking balls thing.

    Breasts,

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    Spamulous Flatulous - or whatever the fuck he is called - is both wrong and right when he goes on about sales figures and Van Halen.

    The big fib he tells is that Van Halen sold more as a band when he was in the band, and that is partially true ... without pointing out that this was because the Van Halen (Roth-era) back catalogue was racking up substantial sales after he joined Van Halen.

    Now, in my opinion, this is not necessarily anything to do with Hagar and the band having a number 1 hit album with 5150 as much as it is to do with the fact that none of the Roth-era albums had previously been released on CD before 1985!!

    Not even 1984, at the dawn of the CD-era, was originally released on CD. Vinyl and tape only. It might not have came out on CD until '86 ... they had already sold 8m copies of the fucker in 1984, and who knew that people would re-buy CDs of albums they bought on tape or vinyl just two years before.

    So, yer, there was an increase in VH sales in the Hagar years - particularly in the back catalogue - and he counts all of that as 'when I was in the band'.

    Van Halen had two big years before Hagar - 1979 and 1984. Those years they were top 10 on everything at the end of the year. You can look up the Billboard end of year archives on Google. It's all in there. They were HUGE in 1979. And the 1979 big year was because VH1, a slow burn from the year before, was selling in huge quantities in 1979 at the same time as VHII was sailing high on the charts.

    WACF and FW were relative bombs - even though they were both platinum US albums. But they did close to zilch outside the US, in all probability. DD was a bigger album - it probably ranks fourth album of the Roth-era behind 1984, VH1, and VHII, in terms of sales (for what that's worth - I don't think sales equate to 'quality' either).

    I'm just amazed that Hagar is still getting mileage out of his VH tenure. But, you have to give the guy his due, he has shown that he knows how to profit out of whatever circumstances he finds himself in. The guy's like one of those bugs that you just can't kill. Whatever you throw at him, he comes back at you again. I mean, FFS, the guy's career should have been in the toilet in 1975 when he was chucked out of a failing band - Montrose - but 30-40 years later he ends up one of the richest guys in rock'n'roll.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    We used to have the CFTH movie script here.

    Breasts,
    We still do...

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    Quote Originally Posted by VHscraps View Post
    I'm just amazed that Hagar is still getting mileage out of his VH tenure. But, you have to give the guy his due, he has shown that he knows how to profit out of whatever circumstances he finds himself in. The guy's like one of those bugs that you just can't kill. Whatever you throw at him, he comes back at you again. I mean, FFS, the guy's career should have been in the toilet in 1975 when he was chucked out of a failing band - Montrose - but 30-40 years later he ends up one of the richest guys in rock'n'roll.
    Hagar's rich because of his business deals, and from riding Van Halen's coat tails. Not because of his solo albums.
    Last edited by twonabomber; 08-03-2016 at 06:58 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by twonabomber View Post
    Hagar's rich because of his business deals, and from riding Van Halen's coat tails. Not because of his solo albums.
    This is absolutely true. If you haven't read his book, the autobiography, you might find it interesting in that respect - in what he reveals about his motivations. He's pretty honest and upfront about it, and it's maybe because his family background was dirt poor.

    But even in the dog days of his early solo career, when he was in London in 1975 making an album, he details how he ended up buying up fine wines and shipping them home - but not for any future rock'n'roll excesses, or anything like that. But as investments. Someone introduced him to the market in fine wines, so he started collecting.

    Same with his investing in tour travel companies, and fire protection companies in the 1980s ... he always seemed to act on the basis that the rock'n'roll thing wasn't ever going to come in with a big payday, or provide anything like the security he would need to retire one day. That's what I mean about Hagar's savviness. If he had never got into music, I am sure he would have done alright for himself, whatever he decided to do. Maybe not as well as he has done, but he's a businessman.

    He made the most of his connections to Van Halen, and he out-manoeuvred them on the Cabo San Lucas business opportunity, which really ended up - with the spin-off Tequila, and selling that brand later for mega-millions - making him richer than anything else he has done.

    All a missed opportunity for the others in the band, who let him buy them out in the belief that it was a waste of money.



    His inclinations were more business. Theirs - Ed and Alex at the time, for sure - were more rock'n'roll, probably.

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    I wonder how much input Ed Leffler had in some of Hagar's business deals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by twonabomber View Post
    I wonder how much input Ed Leffler had in some of Hagar's business deals.
    I think reading from his book, the answer is he got a lot from Leffler.

    Leffler saved him, and even though Hagar was a mid-level album and touring act for a very long time in the late 70s to early 80s, I think he was probably making really good money. Maybe even more than the guys in Van Halen, who were splitting it four ways, and on a not-very-good deal apparently with Warners.

    I think Leffler had Hagar on good record and touring contracts, and as the sole or main songwriter on most of his stuff, he would be making good money on album sales that were less than Van Halen's albums. He was also getting big bucks for the odd song here and there on film soundtracks in the 80s - he was on a few of those - and some of those things netted him quite large sums of money. He had a song on 'Footloose' I think - a big film.

    I don't know how much these things are worth. But, there is an example that comes to mine - a British songwriter named Nick Lowe. Little known, probably - bit of a journeyman songwriter, like Hagar was before Van Halen - but I remember reading something about one of his songs titled '(What's So Funny 'Bout) Peace, Love and Understanding'. Someone did a cover version of it in the film The Bodyguard - it was never a hit song for Lowe himself. So, it wasn't like it was a big famous song the film producers had to pay more than usual to make use of ... but the success of the movie, and the fact that it was on the soundtrack to the movie, made him multi-millions. I think I read many years ago he said he had made more than £5m from that alone.

    So, look at Hagar, and look at all those films - some big hits like Footloose, some cult films like Heavy Metal, or Fast Times at Ridgemont High, and you ask yourself, why was this guy getting songs on all these movies?

    Answer - Ed Leffler. Van Halen made copious amounts of money when he was in charge of their affairs. He renegotiated record contracts, extracted the maximum from promoters etc. Who was Van Halen's manager before that? Dave used to say they didn't have a manager, but it was the ex-Sex Pistols US Tour road manager who was employed by Warners more as a heavy duty rough 'em up kind of guy, Noel Monk.

    A business-savvy guy like Ed Leffler? I don't know, but I wouldn't have thought so.

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    I'm familiar with Lowe. Elvis Costello covered Peace, Love, and Understanding, but I have no idea if it was in the Bodyguard. I don't know who I disliked more, Kevin Costner or Whitney Houston.

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    "In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king"

    Hagar isn't a business genius he was just around long enough and not completely out his brain on booze or drugs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    "In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king"

    Hagar isn't a business genius he was just around long enough and not completely out his brain on booze or drugs.
    He sold his Tequila business for $80 million. He's made a fortune off the travel agency. He's doing very well with the Cabo clubs, or whatever they're called. He is into another booze venture that will probably end up being a huge profit center for him. I'd say he's pretty fucking close to a business genius.

    You're not quite as old as him Sesh, but you've been "just around long enough". Do you have $100 million in the bank? Mansions in Hawaii and California? Own several very lucrative businesses? Own a private jet?

    Like I said, we can bash this fucker for writing cheesy love songs in Van Hagar, and whatever other musical shit we don't like about him, but to disparage every single thing the guy has ever had a hand in, is a bit convoluted and ridiculous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Halen View Post
    You're not quite as old as him Sesh, but you've been "just around long enough". Do you have $100 million in the bank? Mansions in Hawaii and California? Own several very lucrative businesses? Own a private jet?
    I guess we know who Von is backing for next "Most Interesting Man In The World".
    Last edited by cadaverdog; 08-04-2016 at 02:58 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cadaverdog View Post
    I guess we know who Von is backing for next "Most Interesting Man In The World".
    Not at all. I am as sick of this fucking guy as anyone is. I just find it odd that because he turned VH into a sappy love song band, it discredits every single thing in his life. Montrose was a good band. Short lived, but good. He had a pretty fucking good solo career going before he joined VH. Yes, he exaggerates the magnitude of it, but it was solid. He was playing a lot of the same venues VH played, and selling plenty of tickets. Yeah, the guy can be a douche, but you can't just discredit everything because you don't like his music, or what he's done in his musical career. Not to mention, what you see is what you get with that guy. He's the same guy off the stage, as he is on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Halen View Post
    Not at all. I am as sick of this fucking guy as anyone is. I just find it odd that because he turned VH into a sappy love song band, it discredits every single thing in his life. Montrose was a good band. Short lived, but good. He had a pretty fucking good solo career going before he joined VH. Yes, he exaggerates the magnitude of it, but it was solid. He was playing a lot of the same venues VH played, and selling plenty of tickets. Yeah, the guy can be a douche, but you can't just discredit everything because you don't like his music, or what he's done in his musical career. Not to mention, what you see is what you get with that guy. He's the same guy off the stage, as he is on it.
    I'll continue this Sam lovefest! Seriously though, it's hard to argue with his business success. The Van Halens screwed themselves in the Cabo Wabo Cantina deal. The place was struggling and they panicked and wanted to be bought out. Sam gutted it out and turned the place around, then the Van Halens complain about losing out on the deal!

    Terry mentioned it earlier in this thread, but I also have to give the guy credit for helping to sustain VH's success, especially in the 90s. How many of their general peers were still going platinum and filling arenas in '95? AC/DC? Ozzy? Not many.

    My main annoyances with him are overestimating the size/importance of his pre VH solo years, exaggerations about the number of records VH sold during his time in the band and the constant hat-hanging on the number 1 albums.

    And lastly, look at the volume of work he's put out there since leaving VH vs. what VH has done during that same time period. Not even fucking close. The guy is also fan friendly vs. one of the least fan friendly bands out there.

    Well, now that I got Sam up for breakfast, I'm going to take a long hot shower and see if I can scrub myself clean!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Halen View Post
    You're not quite as old as him Sesh, but you've been "just around long enough". Do you have $100 million in the bank? Mansions in Hawaii and California? Own several very lucrative businesses? Own a private jet?

    Don't forget his fleet of trucks...


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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Halen View Post
    Not at all. I am as sick of this fucking guy as anyone is. I just find it odd that because he turned VH into a sappy love song band, it discredits every single thing in his life. Montrose was a good band. Short lived, but good. He had a pretty fucking good solo career going before he joined VH. Yes, he exaggerates the magnitude of it, but it was solid. He was playing a lot of the same venues VH played, and selling plenty of tickets. Yeah, the guy can be a douche, but you can't just discredit everything because you don't like his music, or what he's done in his musical career. Not to mention, what you see is what you get with that guy. He's the same guy off the stage, as he is on it.
    I was just being a smartass as usual. I'm not a Sammy hater either. As far as Van Halen goes I prefer Roth over Hagar on vocals but Van Hagar put out a few listenable tunes as well. I think it's humorous how some of the people who think Dave can do no wrong will exaggerate Hagar's worthlessness much in the same way they're exaggerating stuff Trump says or does. According to some of them he never made a profit off a business deal, he's a Klan member and he can't wait to start WWIII.

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    I really don't get the he made a lot of money he can't be all that bad , he is a cunt. Oh we talking trump or Hagar. And as for he has a private jet .... Think hitler had one.

    And I was reading that warren buffet (a man who knows how to make money ) said this week that even a monkey could have made more money than trump did with the money he had.
    Or was it even a monkey could have sang on 5150 ... Something like that .

    Now I have it in my head trump and Hagar are the same person

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