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Thread: Challenger Crew Deaths

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    Challenger Crew Deaths

    Not a cheery story but I never knew this...


    http://gawker.com/thirty-years-ago-t...and-1755727930

    Thirty Years Ago, the Challenger Crew Plunged Alive and Aware to Their Deaths



    Tom Scocca
    01/28/16 02:08PM



    On January 28, 1986, America watched on television as the space shuttle Challenger—carrying six astronauts and one schoolteacher—disappeared in a twisting cloud of smoke, nine miles above the launch pad it had just left. To a stunned nation, it appeared that seven lives had instantly been lost.

    Speaking to the nation that night, President Ronald Reagan immortalized that impression, in an address written by Peggy Noonan and quoting (without attribution) the poet-aviator John Gillespie Magee, Jr.: The crew, he said, had “‘slipped the surly bonds of earth’ to ‘touch the face of God.’”

    But after the disaster, over time, a different and more horrible story took shape: The Challenger made it through the spectacular eruption of its external fuel tank with its cabin more or less intact. Rather than being carried to Heaven in an instant, the crippled vessel kept sailing upward for another three miles before its momentum gave out, then plunged 12 miles to the ocean. The crew was, in all likelihood, conscious for the full two and a half minutes until it hit the water.

    NASA did not want the public to know this version of events, and it did everything within its power to keep the original story as the official one. More than two years after the explosion, the Miami Herald’s Tropic magazine published an exhaustively reported story by the reporter Dennis E. Powell about the actual, terrifying truth of the Challenger disaster, and about the extraordinary effort NASA put into concealing it.

    Powell wrote:


    When the shuttle broke apart, the crew compartment did not lose pressure, at least not at once. There was an uncomfortable jolt—“A pretty good kick in the pants” is the way one investigator describes it—but it was not so severe as to cause injury. This probably accounted for the “uh oh” that was the last word heard on the flight deck tape recorder that would be recovered from the ocean floor two months later. As they were feeling the jolt, the four astronauts on the flight deck saw a bright flash and a cloud of steam. The lights went out. The intercom went dead. After a few breaths, the seven astronauts stopped getting oxygen into their helmets.

    Someone, apparently astronaut Ronald McNair, leaned forward and turned on the personal emergency air pack of shuttle pilot Michael Smith. The PEAP of Commander Francis Scobee was in a place where it was difficult to reach. It was not activated. Even so, if the crew compartment did not rapidly lose air pressure, Scobee would only have had to lift his mask to be able to breathe. Two other PEAPs were turned on. The three others were never found.

    Though the shuttle had broken to pieces, the crew compartment was intact. It stabilized in a nose-down attitude within 10 to 20 seconds, say the investigators. Even if the compartment was gradually losing pressure, those on the flight deck would certainly have remained conscious long enough to catch a glimpse of the green-brown Atlantic rushing toward them. If it lost its pressurization very slowly or remained intact until it hit the water, they were conscious and cognizant all the way down.

    In fact, no clear evidence was ever found that the crew cabin depressurized at all. There was certainly no sudden, catastrophic loss of air of the type that would have knocked the astronauts out within seconds. Such an event would have caused the mid-deck floor to buckle upward; that simply didn’t happen.
    Powell’s piece was full of unflinching detail, recounted by sources who had found NASA interfering with the recovery and investigation work at every turn. Coast Guard Lieutenant Commander James Simpson described one incident typifying NASA’s desire to bury any information that might cast doubt on the instant-death mythology:

    Added to NASA’s silence was the unofficial policy of lying when necessary, says Simpson. He offers as an example the crew cabin debris discovered on Jan. 29 by a Coast Guard vessel. “It included notebooks, tape recorders, all stuff from the crew compartment,” Simpson remembers. It also included an astronaut’s helmet, largely intact, containing ears and scalp. “I was supposed to go on television and discuss the search and recovery. I got up at 4 a.m. and was told about the cabin debris, which was found the night before. The public affairs guy at NASA didn’t know about it until I told him—his own people didn’t even tell him. He said, ‘You’re not going to mention this on TV this morning, are you?’

    “I told him that if I was asked about it, I certainly would. I said, `The Coast Guard has no interest in going on national television to tell lies to protect you.’”

    Finally, NASA’s Astronaut Office contacted Simpson.

    “I was told the families hadn’t been told yet, even though the debris had been found the night before,” he says. “I didn’t want them to hear about it on television. So I lied on television. I still feel bad about that.”
    The story, particularly the parts about the cover-up, got some attention at the time. The New York Times followed up and got Robert B. Hotz, a member of the presidential commission that had investigated the disaster, to confirm what he’d told the Herald: that he believed NASA was deliberately concealing what it knew about the Challenger, because “they couldn’t face the fact that they had to put these guys in a situation where they did not have adequate equipment to survive.”

    That was the pivotal issue: By the Herald’s account, NASA had failed to take any precautions in the event of a catastrophic but possibly survivable accident. It was of a piece with the hubris and magical thinking that had led NASA to put a civilian social-studies teacher aboard a dangerous spacecraft, for a nation of students to watch live in class. There was no equipment to arrest the craft’s fall or to allow the astronauts to ditch it, nor even an emergency locating transmitter. The crew could do nothing but ride it down:

    Though the official report, made by Dr. Joseph Kerwin of NASA’s Life Sciences branch in a news conference July 28, 1986, indicates that no cause of death could be determined, there is little doubt among investigators that the crew of Challenger remained alive until impact, even if the cabin lost its pressure. There is a statistical possibility that one or more of the crew may have gone into cardiac arrest due to depressurization, but this phenomenon is uncommon and would not have affected the entire crew. Certainly, says one investigator, those aboard what was left of Challenger could not have been pronounced dead until they received the injuries that occurred when the cabin met the Atlantic. Even had any crew member gone into cardiac arrest due to depressurization, they would have been easily revivable.

    “If it had landed softly,” said one of the investigators, “they could have swam home.”
    But the myth of instantaneous and inevitable death won out. That was the story NASA wanted told, the story it was safe to tell the schoolchildren who’d watched it happen. The Tropic investigation is nowhere to be found in the Miami Herald’s anniversary coverage, nor does the paper appear to have put a version online at all. (It can be found elsewhere as a reprint.)

    A careful reading of the Herald’s anniversary report does find certain scrupulous turns of phrase—“sending the crew compartment hurtling into the Atlantic,” “the Challenger’s plunge into the dark, frigid sea”—consistent with the darker truth. But the takeaway message is the one from the paper’s initial disaster coverage: “After Challenger explosion, space’s age of innocence ends.”

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    I took my driver's test that day.
    Writing In All Proper Case Takes Extra Time, Is Confusing To Read, And Is Completely Pointless.

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    I saw Aerosmith and The Divinyls that evening in Bakersfield. It was the day before my 26th birthday. The story that the crew survived the initial explosion has been around for years. Some assumed they died on impact with the Atlantic. Others assumed they drowned. I heard what must have been a phony recording of the crew right before they hit the water. One person was praying, at least one was screaming Oh My God.
    Last edited by cadaverdog; 10-05-2016 at 09:05 PM.
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    On January 28, 1986, America watched on television as the space shuttle Challenger—carrying six astronauts and one schoolteacher—disappeared in a twisting cloud of smoke, nine miles above the launch pad it had just left.
    I don't remember it being on live TV. Shuttle launches had become routine by then.

    I was in electronics class when it launched. Someone came into the lab and said Challenger had exploded. We grabbed a couple broken TV's that someone had donated to the class, one had sound and the other only picture. By the time we got them set up every network was running the story.

    Wiki:

    While the presence of New Hampshire's Christa McAuliffe, a member of the Teacher in Space program, on the Challenger crew had provoked some media interest, there was little live broadcast coverage of the launch. The only live national TV coverage available publicly was provided by CNN, although several radio networks were also live. NBC, CBS and ABC all broke into regular programing shortly after the accident; NBC's John Palmer announced there had been "a major problem" with the launch.
    I don't think we had cable at the high school in 1986. But then the article mentions:

    Due to McAuliffe's presence on the mission, NASA arranged for many US public schools to view the launch live on NASA TV. As a result, many who were schoolchildren in the US in 1986 did in fact have the opportunity to view the launch live. After the accident, 17 percent of respondents in one study reported that they had seen the shuttle launch, while 85 percent said that they had learned of the accident within an hour.
    If America was watching, it was after the explosion and not live.
    Last edited by twonabomber; 10-05-2016 at 09:24 PM.

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    Yeah, I was in high school at the time, and don't recall watching it live. There wasn't even an announcement made in school that it had happened. I think I heard about it later that day.

    Honestly, at the time I was probably more focused on scoring pot and finger banging old Mary Jane Rottencrotch than I was about the disaster. I didn't think much about it at the time...I certainly didn't think about it along the lines of it being some seminal/pivotal event of my teenage years.

    Pretty freaky reading the account of the astronauts, though. I had always assumed they died immediately in the explosion. I do remember a joke that made the rounds shortly after the explosion: What is Christa McAuliffe doing now? Feeding the fish.
    Scramby eggs and bacon.

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    I was out getting high.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    I do remember a joke that made the rounds shortly after the explosion: What is Christa McAuliffe doing now? Feeding the fish.
    I heard a slightly different version.
    What was the last thing Christa McAuliffe said to her husband as she left home the day the Challenger exploded? You feed the kids and dog and I'll feed the fish.

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    You always want to believe that nasa are the good guys. Kinda
    fuck your fucking framing

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    Although I know Feynman wasn't a massive fan of nasa management.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vandeleur View Post
    You always want to believe that nasa are the good guys. Kinda
    They were. Until they let the fucking limeys in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristy View Post
    They were. Until they let the fucking limeys in.
    Silly girl and don't speak with you're mouth full.

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    My mouth is always full, retard.


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    I happened to be home sick that day so I saw the explosion live on TV. Even from what you could see there it seemed obvious to me that the cabin would have been intact when the shuttle came down. I remember thinking at the time "Why aren't they trying to pull that thing out and look for surviviors?".

    In any case, the fact that the whole thing happened in the first place, just because some low level moron at a NASA subcontractor didn't account for weather conditions, still blows my mind.

    Or was that not the right pun to use.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by FORD View Post
    In any case, the fact that the whole thing happened in the first place, just because some low level moron at a NASA subcontractor didn't account for weather conditions, still blows my mind.
    If you had ever worked in aircraft you'd know "low level morons" don't make decisions about materials used to build whatever it is they're building. That would be an engineers job. The Roger's Commission concluded that the o rings failed because of a design flaw. They also concluded NASA should have delayed the takeoff because the manufacturer of the rocket booster that failed chief engineers warned them the o rings might fail. It also concluded NASA knew the o rings were suspect as early as 1977.

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    Yeah the whole thing ended up being a management study tool in how not to.

    In hindsight the whole shuttle program can be seen as unsuccessful in that it was too complicated and ended up flying far far fewer missions than was envisaged.

    Then there was that whole Hugo Drax incident...

    On the O ring thing I'm a huge fan of Feynman and he presented the problem perfectly and him being a maverick was the person to do it but he was fed all his info on a plate by an insider so it wasn't really one of his many moments of genius.

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    Shit, when I read about how more and more commercial airlines are subcontracting the repairs of their planes to facilities and employees located outside of the United States (and thus not subject to FAA rules and regulations), I worry far more about taking a plane flight than a shuttle ride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    In hindsight the whole shuttle program can be seen as unsuccessful in that it was too complicated and ended up flying far far fewer missions than was envisaged.
    Unsuccessful? Not as successful as it could have been due to bad decision making as far as the Challenger incident goes but it was still successful program because the Shuttles did what they were supposed to do. Even the two shuttles that didn't complete their final missions had completed several successful missions before hand.
    Last edited by cadaverdog; 10-07-2016 at 12:19 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    Shit, when I read about how more and more commercial airlines are subcontracting the repairs of their planes to facilities and employees located outside of the United States (and thus not subject to FAA rules and regulations), I worry far more about taking a plane flight than a shuttle ride.
    For what it's worth in our new post facts ignore experts world the figures are

    The chances of the Space shuttle crashing were 1 in 100.


    The chances of your plane crashing is 1 in 11 000 000

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    Shit, when I read about how more and more commercial airlines are subcontracting the repairs of their planes to facilities and employees located outside of the United States (and thus not subject to FAA rules and regulations), I worry far more about taking a plane flight than a shuttle ride.
    I'm sure other countries around the world that have airports and repair facilities have some form of government overseers similar to the FAA that establish and enforce rules and regulations relating to the usage, repair and maintenance of aircraft.

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    There used to be a great website that worked all that shit out for you back around 10 years ago, I know because I worked with a Mr T type character.

    You would input the journey and the airline and it would statistically work out the chances of that plane 'going down'.

    No offence but Terry wandered into the world of HagarStats there.

    Back then we used to all boast about in a large circle of friends about getting the lowest score and the winner by far was some friend of a friend who did some prop flight in South America on a tiny airline who came in at 30 000 - 1 or so.

    Astronaut stuff is seriously dangerous.

    Also another thing for the last of the moon conspiracy people which just popped into my head. In the 1960s Formula 1 fatalities peaked at 1 in 3.

    I think that's one of the problems in looking back. There is no fucking way that the Apollo thing would be allowed now as it was far too fucking dangerous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    .

    I think that's one of the problems in looking back. There is no fucking way that the Apollo thing would be allowed now as it was far too fucking dangerous.
    Have you seen the possible replacement for the Space Shuttle yet? It's more like the module that went to the moon than the shuttle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orion_(spacecraft)

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