Van Hagar To Tour In 2017

[FORD]

Brian Young came from the Atomic Punks. They always played the songs fairly close to the album version, because that's how tribute bands did it. Given the compressed set time of a "dual headliner" tour (as it was in 2002) that leaves less time to play around with song length. It was different when they toured in 2003. They had time to expand some of the songs.

[cadaverdog]

Brian Young came from the Atomic Punks. They always played the songs fairly close to the album version, because that's how tribute bands did it. Given the compressed set time of a "dual headliner" tour (as it was in 2002) that leaves less time to play around with song length. It was different when they toured in 2003. They had time to expand some of the songs.

When I go to a live show I expect a little "ad libbing " . Young played like he was doing an Atomic Punks show. It might have been different if Dave was closing. One of my hardcore Dave or the grave buddies even admitted he was disappointed by Dave's set that night.

[twonabomber]

It was different when they toured in 2003. They had time to expand some of the songs.

And then Toshi was in the band as well...

[DONNIEP]

The Van Halens are so fucking clueless..ya see the instagram clip of Ed playing that same old elephant and horse sounds? Why not a clip of a killer new riff that hasnt been heard?...fuckin clueless..

Ed's talent/creativity well wasn't as deep as people want to believe. Besides, it ran dry about 30 years ago...

[chuckjitsu]

Maybe Dave is more enlightened than I'm giving him credit for, but I just don't see him agreeing to any sort of dual lead singer tour. What's his motivation? Acknowledging his mortality? Money? A little zen headed his way? A Buddhist riff in his inner ear? Hell, I could be totally wrong, but I just have a hard time seeing it.

Now if Dave really wanted to be different, he should grab John 5, Mike Anthony, [insert some drummer here] and go do shows with that lineup. That I'd pay to see. Some dual lead singer crap with Hagar? Yeah, I'll pass.

[Terry]

Yeah.... even if I wanted to see Hagar screech through an entire set, watching Vic the Busboy mangle Eddie's guitar parts is even more excruciating. Dude's been playing them for 20 years... you would think he might have figured them out by now...

I particularly enjoyed the part where Sammy licked his fingers after informing the audience that "the real thing is pudcake": that certainly got my vagina moist.

I'd say Vic did...okay. Clearly, he isn't going to win "best replication of Eddie guitar parts" in the Van Hagar Tribute Band contest. However, he got the essence of the licks in that song down to where it was...I dunno, adequate?

The rest of it was...decent, I suppose. Hagar's voice seemed a little weak, but it sounded in key when I recall the recorded version, although the guitar did sound like it was tuned down somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2 a step from the original recording.

[Terry]

I completely agree with Von... It's GONNA happen, it's inevitable, for whatever reasoning you may want attribute to it....

If it's financial, to get one more big payday before heading out to pasture, fuck it, just do it and get it over with....

I also agree that at this stage that a basic VH with Dave tour, with a schmuck opening band, isn't going to fill barns anymore... I think it would be smart to add a decent band from that era to open, although they probably don't want lesser profits....

By the way, nor would they fill barns with solely Hagar either, I might add.... They would get the people wanting to hear the ballads, but would lose those that despise that era....

Which leads me to how Hagar wants to do the tour.... NOT by doing half the show with DLR, half with Bette.... He wants to do a few songs with DLR, half with SH....

And I think he's a dick for wanting to do it that way.... He wants the crowd to see how much better his singing is than DLR, and rub it in his face....

The problem for Hagar in that co-tour scenario, I'd imagine, is that there would probably be far more people in the audience who 1) prefer the Roth era over the Hagar era and 2) like both eras than there will be 3) people who only liked the Hagar era and totally hate what Van Halen did before Hagar joined. Sort of an extension of Hagar's reported objections when BOV1 was being put together and the possibility of two separate disc releases - one all Hagar, one all Roth - was being proposed: Hagar didn't want a Roth disc to outsell his.

Because for all of Hagar's inflated bluster in interviews over the years - Van Hagar had more #1 albums and more top #40 charting singles - the overall impartial sales stats don't jibe with Hagar's version of reality.

A Roth / Hagar co-vocal VH tour would eliminate the need for an opening act, assuming each singer gets an hour onstage with the band.

The idea of doing alternating CVH/Sam Halen tunes throughout the evening is a bad one, but probably the only way to ensure substantial chunks of the audience won't be using a Hagar set to go take a piss or get a beer.

The real draw for such an evening would be seeing CVH onstage.

As to the rest, I mean, Roth's voice is fairly well shot, and an hour set would probably be better for Dave than an upwards of two hour set. Nobody really needs to have a Roth/Hagar co-tour with alternating eras song-for-song to demonstrate how Roth's voice has deteriorated, because that has been all too evident. Frankly, Hagar's voice isn't exactly what it was, either.

[Terry]

Maybe Dave is more enlightened than I'm giving him credit for, but I just don't see him agreeing to any sort of dual lead singer tour. What's his motivation? Acknowledging his mortality? Money? A little zen headed his way? A Buddhist riff in his inner ear? Hell, I could be totally wrong, but I just have a hard time seeing it.

Now if Dave really wanted to be different, he should grab John 5, Mike Anthony, [insert some drummer here] and go do shows with that lineup. That I'd pay to see. Some dual lead singer crap with Hagar? Yeah, I'll pass.

I will say I could as easily see Roth saying no to the idea as I could seeing him agreeing to it.

I mean, Roth has always been forthright as to how he sees the version of Van Halen he was in as the only one that ever mattered. Yet, Roth was still willing in 2002 to do a co-headlining tour with Hagar when he was trying to ignite some interest in his solo career and play larger venues again as a headliner, rather than as an opening act for Bad Company.

For years, Roth said he would only do a reunion tour with Van Halen if all four CVH members were there, yet he compromised on that stipulation when push came to shove.

I personally like the idea of Dave doing solo shows in smaller venues with John 5 or whoever. One of the best Roth solo shows I saw was in 2006 at such a venue. I can't imagine the asking price and guarantees/fees he commands on those types of shows are nearly as high as what he commands fronting Van Halen, so he probably has to do more of those small shows to make a fraction of the profit. I'm sure a lot of diehard Roth fans would like to see Dave do smaller theaters, and would be willing to check out what Dave was doing regardless of Van Halen being onstage with him or not. The problem is, exactly how many of those diehard Roth fans are there even left? Enough to even mount a solo tour?

I'd tend to guess the general concert ticket buying public could really not care less what Roth is up to if he isn't fronting Van Halen. Never mind if Dave needs the money or not: do you want to wind down your career fronting Van Halen, headlining in front of 15,000 + people a night, or fronting The Diamond David Lee Roth Experience featuring John 5 and Special Guest Bassist Mike Anthony and being in the middle of the bill at a State Fair?

If it is the former, much like in 2002 maybe yet another compromise with Hagar is the price of doing big time business at this stage of Dave's career.

It's all down to whatever Eddie Van Halen wants to do in the end, anyway.

[Seshmeister]

I quite like the idea of them alternating.

Ideally they should have Roth and the band come out, do a few songs and then leave the stage. Then Hagar comes on dressed in a clown outfit and reads a page from his fictional autobiography concentrating on bits about Eddie being a fruitcake or how he was a massive act solo.

He then goes off and the band come on and do another four or five songs.

We could have that repeat for the whole set so that by the time Hagar comes out the 4th time it will really build up an atmosphere...

[Terry]

I quite like the idea of them alternating.

Ideally they should have Roth and the band come out, do a few songs and then leave the stage. Then Hagar comes on dressed in a clown outfit and reads a page from his fictional autobiography concentrating on bits about Eddie being a fruitcake or how he was a massive act solo.

He then goes off and the band come on and do another four or five songs.

We could have that repeat for the whole set so that by the time Hagar comes out the 4th time it will really build up an atmosphere...

Like, Roth and the boys slam out several CVH tunes, then Sammy comes out and gives a monologue about how HIS version of Van Halen was so much better than what the audience just heard. Then Roth and Co. come out and bang out a few more tunes, then Sammy comes back out and yells, "Hey, man! Don't believe that jive you just heard: I was filling stadiums as a solo artist - I headlined the US Festival in 1983, remember?! - and Van Halen were only kinda successful before I hooked up with them!" Then Dave and the Van Halens come out for a few more tunes, then Sammy walks out and says, "Hey, now it's 5150 time!! Remember how Van Halen sold 100 million records when I was in the band?"

It's a good strategy, actually: gives Roth and the band time to rest up, and gives Sammy a chance to come out and do what he really wants to do anyway, while sparing the audience from having to hear Sam Halen's keyboard pop-rock schmaltz.

During intermission, Sammy can entertain the audience by providing a cappella versions of his best-known Van Hagar tunes...or perhaps just a dramatic spoken word presentation of his timeless, thoughtful rock lyrics. Just the thought of Hagar up there onstage, alone, warbling out "When It's Love" gives me goose bumps...or more like a mild case of nauseous diarrhea.

[cadaverdog]

Now if Dave really wanted to be different, he should grab John 5, Mike Anthony, [insert some drummer here] and go do shows with that lineup. That I'd pay to see. Some dual lead singer crap with Hagar? Yeah, I'll pass.

Considering how successful the last VH tour was with Roth he might be able to draw enough interest to warrant a promoters interest for a small venue tour but I doubt it. A big club and casino tour with Vai and the boys from the EEAS album would be more likely.

[Nickdfresh]

Like, Roth and the boys slam out several CVH tunes, then Sammy comes out and gives a monologue about how HIS version of Van Halen was so much better than what the audience just heard. Then Roth and Co. come out and bang out a few more tunes, then Sammy comes back out and yells, "Hey, man! Don't believe that jive you just heard: I was filling stadiums as a solo artist - I headlined the US Festival in 1983, remember?! - and Van Halen were only kinda successful before I hooked up with them!" Then Dave and the Van Halens come out for a few more tunes, then Sammy walks out and says, "Hey, now it's 5150 time!! Remember how Van Halen sold 100 million records when I was in the band?"

It's a good strategy, actually: gives Roth and the band time to rest up, and gives Sammy a chance to come out and do what he really wants to do anyway, while sparing the audience from having to hear Sam Halen's keyboard pop-rock schmaltz.

During intermission, Sammy can entertain the audience by providing a cappella versions of his best-known Van Hagar tunes...or perhaps just a dramatic spoken word presentation of his timeless, thoughtful rock lyrics. Just the thought of Hagar up there onstage, alone, warbling out "When It's Love" gives me goose bumps...or more like a mild case of nauseous diarrhea.

Maybe Sam could just come out and put a gun in his mouth and shoot himself? That would be a tough act to follow and difficult to replicate night after night, though...

[78/84 guy]

Can someone please take down that laughable bullshit untrue story on the main page. SAD ! This is what's it's become around here ? Predicting Van Hagar reunions ? This guy hasn't even been in contact with the Van Halen brothers. You can tell by his sad desperation bringing up this shitty pathetic duel lead singer idea. He knows the 40th anniversary is coming up and wants in. BAD ! That means he's NOT in. Neither is Mike. So why say he is ? Sources ? What sources ? Hagar ? His manager ? The guy that runs the news desk ? Please.......

[Terry]

Can someone please take down that laughable bullshit untrue story on the main page. SAD ! This is what's it's become around here ? Predicting Van Hagar reunions ? This guy hasn't even been in contact with the Van Halen brothers. You can tell by his sad desperation bringing up this shitty pathetic duel lead singer idea. He knows the 40th anniversary is coming up and wants in. BAD ! That means he's NOT in. Neither is Mike. So why say he is ? Sources ? What sources ? Hagar ? His manager ? The guy that runs the news desk ? Please.......

Sammy has been putting that "it's inevitable me and Van Halen will reunite again" nonsense in interviews for about 7 years now. A couple years after his tell-all book was released. Like, if it's so inevitable, he wouldn't even need to mention it once - much less dozens of times - because it would happen anyway regardless.

Hagar basically has to make it publicly known in interviews that he would work with Eddie Van Halen again and publicly offer up scenarios as to how Hagar and Roth could simultaneously tour with the band because obviously [Hagar] can't simply contact Eddie and tell him that privately, because Hagar and Eddie simply haven't even as much as spoken since 2004.

I mean, I don't even think Eddie cares enough about Hagar to even be bothered about any of it. Basically, Hagar and Eddie didn't speak from 1996 to 2003. The recording of BOBW, the rehearsals for the 2004 and the tour itself were a fiasco in terms of Hagar and Eddie getting along. And they haven't spoken since outside of what...exchanging birthday greetings once via public internet messaging?

Doubtless Hagar would like to do at least one more tour with Van Halen. I mean, I can't blame the guy: that 2004 tour was a disaster. I wouldn't want that to be the last thing I did with the group if I were fronting them, either. And I'll bet it sticks in Hagar's craw that Eddie and Roth finally got back together and have done a few tours over the last decade, in that the return of Roth threatens to further negate Hagar's contributions to the band. Being in Van Halen was THE highwater mark of Hagar's entire career, and the fact that the Roth years outsold his...that no matter how hard Hagar tries to persuade the general public otherwise, David Lee Roth - whatever he has been reduced to now - was THE definitive lead singer in Van Halen in the minds of the majority of the general public...you just now no matter how sanguine Hagar tries to pretend his is about all of that, deep down I'd be willing to wager it irks Hagar that a guy like Roth who Hagar clearly thinks he is better than in every way has relegated Hagar forever to "the first guy who joined Van Halen after Roth left in 1985" status.

Sammy should look at it THIS way: at least his name isn't Gary Cherone.

At least there is one lead singer who was in Van Halen that Hagar can point to and say "my time in the band was way more successful than HIS!"

Too bad for Hagar that guy isn't David Lee Roth, but whatever. Have a Red Rockin' Mas Cabo Wabo Tequila shot, go onstage with Biff Malibu and bang out Pudcake for the club punters. Just be happy you are still able to charge people to watch you sing for your supper, and don't worry so much about touring with Van Halen. If it happens, it happens.

[Nickdfresh]

Can someone please take down that laughable bullshit untrue story on the main page. SAD ! This is what's it's become around here ? Predicting Van Hagar reunions ? This guy hasn't even been in contact with the Van Halen brothers. You can tell by his sad desperation bringing up this shitty pathetic duel lead singer idea. He knows the 40th anniversary is coming up and wants in. BAD ! That means he's NOT in. Neither is Mike. So why say he is ? Sources ? What sources ? Hagar ? His manager ? The guy that runs the news desk ? Please.......

Nope, Von Pussy's massive ego is at stake! We all have to look like Kool Aid swelling idiots because someone jerked off Von's microcock with their chubby thumb and forefinger...

[Von Halen]

because Hagar and Eddie simply haven't even as much as spoken since 2004.

Is that right?

And they haven't spoken since outside of what...exchanging birthday greetings once via public internet messaging?

You're sure about that?

Nope, Von Pussy's massive ego is at stake! We all have to look like Kool Aid swelling idiots because someone jerked off Von's microcock with their chubby thumb and forefinger...

Well NickDickless, when they finally do announce it, you'll be jacking off my cock with your chubby fingers. Again. By the way, you've always looked like a kool aid (jizz) swallowing idiot.

[Nickdfresh]

Is that right?



You're sure about that?



Well NickDickless, when they finally do announce it, you'll be jacking off my cock with your chubby fingers. Again. By the way, you've always looked like a kool aid (jizz) swallowing idiot.

Well Von has spoken ladies and gentlemen, LMFAO...


Yeah Von, it's going to happen in 2017, right?

You autistic, easily misled retard...

[Nickdfresh]

Our cub reporter Von is on the story!!

[Nickdfresh]

Do you want my chubby fingers to jerk off your shriveling old man tiny cock in 2017, 2018, 2019, or 2020?

Pick a year asshole, then you can do a fucking hallelujah rain-dance and be right!

[Terry]

Is that right?



You're sure about that?



Well NickDickless, when they finally do announce it, you'll be jacking off my cock with your chubby fingers. Again. By the way, you've always looked like a kool aid (jizz) swallowing idiot.

Am I 100% sure they haven't directly spoken since 2004?

No.

Would it make more sense to assume they haven't?

Considering the circumstances (the lack of personal interaction on the 2004 tour, Hagar's tell-all book with the unflinching descriptions of Eddie being an unhinged drunk, Roth rejoining the band in late 2006 and working with the band through the end of 2015), what would Eddie and Hagar have to talk about? Any business concerns regarding past royalties would be handled between their individual legal reps, business managers, accountants and the record companies.

I mean, is it beyond the realm of possibility they have spoken in the last year or so, and a Van Hagar tour is going to happen next year?

No.

I'm not gonna feel too sheepish if Van Hagar tours next year in terms of being wrong about Eddie and Hagar having spoken since, say, the end of 2015. Mostly because at this point it wouldn't be surprising if Van Hagar DID tour again.

I mean, considering the seemingly random nature of Van Halen's undertakings over the last 21 years, there's very little the band can do going forward that is gonna make me scratch my head and say "wow, that seems like a weird thing to do, and weird is uncharacteristic of how this band operates." Weird and nonsensical is normative standard operating procedure for Van Halen. Has been since 1996.

I guess I'm leaving myself all these caveats primarily because I don't particularly want to give Von a handy...at least not unless he gives his twig and berries a good washing first (not like last time).

[Nickdfresh]

I particularly enjoyed the part where Sammy licked his fingers after informing the audience that "the real thing is pudcake": that certainly got my vagina moist.

I'd say Vic did...okay. Clearly, he isn't going to win "best replication of Eddie guitar parts" in the Van Hagar Tribute Band contest. However, he got the essence of the licks in that song down to where it was...I dunno, adequate?

The rest of it was...decent, I suppose. Hagar's voice seemed a little weak, but it sounded in key when I recall the recorded version, although the guitar did sound like it was tuned down somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2 a step from the original recording.

I haven't watched the video, but will at some point I guess. So I have to ask, did Vic use a drill on his guitar? And if so, could be please bury it into Sam's fucking forehead next time?

[Terry]

I haven't watched the video, but will at some point I guess. So I have to ask, did Vic use a drill on his guitar? And if so, could be please bury it into Sam's fucking forehead next time?

I guess my larger point was: would it really have sounded that much better had Eddie have been there and played all the parts as they had been on the record?

I mean, I was pretty (at best) lukewarm on Poundcake as a track when it was initially released: I'm fairly sure a reconstituted Van Hagar lineup playing the song now isn't going to make me have an epiphany which results in placing my hands over my head, putting my corresponding index finger and thumb tips together to form the shape of a vagina (for some reason, I'm now thinking of the Wonder Twins, with Jana saying "form of...a vagina!" and Zan saying "shape of...an ice dildo!" with that space monkey Gleek subsequently taking the Zan dildo and ramming it into Jana) and then doing that lame-o 5150 walk Ed, Mike and Sammy used to do onstage.

What the fuck was it Al was blathering on about in interviews in 1986? Oh yeah, he'd yell "Bocephus!" (or some type of hipster gibberish) at random, drunken intervals.

So does it really matter if it's Vic or if it's Ed playing if the song was lame to begin with?

Bocephus, indeed.

[FORD]

I haven't watched the video, but will at some point I guess. So I have to ask, did Vic use a drill on his guitar? And if so, could be please bury it into Sam's fucking forehead next time?

He didn't use a drill in that video, which apparently means he had some pedals set to imitate the drill sound (not very well). I believe he did have the drill on the "Spam & Dave" tour in 2002, which sounded even worse. And unfortunately, did not drill a hole in Hagar's head.

[twonabomber]

I guess my larger point was: would it really have sounded that much better had Eddie have been there and played all the parts as they had been on the record?

I mean, I was pretty (at best) lukewarm on Poundcake as a track when it was initially released: I'm fairly sure a reconstituted Van Hagar lineup playing the song now isn't going to make me have an epiphany which results in placing my hands over my head, putting my corresponding index finger and thumb tips together to form the shape of a vagina (for some reason, I'm now thinking of the Wonder Twins, with Jana saying "form of...a vagina!" and Zan saying "shape of...an ice dildo!" with that space monkey Gleek subsequently taking the Zan dildo and ramming it into Jana) and then doing that lame-o 5150 walk Ed, Mike and Sammy used to do onstage.

What the fuck was it Al was blathering on about in interviews in 1986? Oh yeah, he'd yell "Bocephus!" (or some type of hipster gibberish) at random, drunken intervals.

So does it really matter if it's Vic or if it's Ed playing if the song was lame to begin with?

Bocephus, indeed.

Bocephus Mode.

Most of the riffs and music on FUCK are good, it's the lyrics and screeching that bring it down. Probably the best recorded out of the four VHagar studio albums too.

[FORD]

I almost believe the rumors that Dave was supposed to be back in the band by 1991, because it seems like Eddie was making an effort to tone down the cheese factor of the first two Van Hagar albums (or 1/4 of 1984, for that matter). "Right Now" was a keyboard song (and Pepsi commercial) but at least it was piano rather than synthesizer. And most of the record could have been a proper Van Halen album if Hagar hadn't been there. Would have loved to hear what Dave would have done with "Judgment Day", actually.

[Terry]

Bocephus Mode.

Most of the riffs and music on FUCK are good, it's the lyrics and screeching that bring it down. Probably the best recorded out of the four VHagar studio albums too.

On an instrumental level, I'd say FUCK has more decent ideas from start to finish than any other Van Hagar era album.

Far as production values or sonics, I'd also say FUCK is (to my ears) the best sounding album.

Poundcake was fairly mundane.

Judgment Day was decent.

I think Pleasuredome instrumentally stands out the most to me: that was a fine bit of work.

What the fuck else is on that album?

Top Of The World instrumentally sounds like a slightly inverted DTNA rhythm with bits of the Jump outro peppered in. Comes off like it took longer to record than to write, and not in a particularly inspired way.

Man On A Mission is okay.

Dream Another Dream (This Dream Is Over) or whatever the fuck it is called - I'm going off of memory here - was also okay.

Roundabout aka Here We Go Round And Round aka Giving Me The Runaround aka I'm Giving Biff Malibu The Reacharound was good.

Right Now wasn't a bad offering. To be sure, between Hagar's lyrics and that stupid Crystal Pepsi commercial, it turned out a bit trite on a lyrical level and overplayed. I actually do like the various piano riffs, what the drums were doing on that track, I thought the guitar solo was (for Eddie Van Halen) restrained yet also fitting. Dare I even say (a phrase I don't really use in describing Sam Halen music) somewhat inspired on an instrumental level?

It would seem fair to say FUCK was perhaps the closest of the Van Hagar outings overall (types of riffs, production sounds) to hail back to the style of CVJH on a musical level.

Then again, a good album by Van Hagar standards doesn't necessarily mean it was up to snuff with what came before 1985.

[FORD]

Seems like I heard a Van Hagar bootleg a while back that had them performing "Pleasure Dome" as an instrumental. It definitely sounded better that way!

[Terry]

Seems like I heard a Van Hagar bootleg a while back that had them performing "Pleasure Dome" as an instrumental. It definitely sounded better that way!

I mean, it's a pretty cool piece of rock music. Putting aside as to if most (if not all) Van Hagar music would sound better without the vocals (they would), I always thought Pleasuredome would have been better served being left on FUCK as an instrumental.

[FORD]

Found it....

[DavidLeeNatra]

I'm a bit proud to say that I honestly don't have the slightest clue what the fuck you are talking about.

I listened to 5150 a couple of times and saw "Live without a net" once. That's all the Hagar I could talk about if I have to.

[FORD]

You can watch that last clip safely. No Hagar in it at all!

[Terry]

I'm assuming the clip (which I haven't watched) is from...what is it...Live Right Here Right Now, or whatever the live home video release from the FUCK tour was called.

I did watch that release once.

I think I've actually seen all the official Van Hagar live releases, if they were limited to the Live Without A Net, the FUCK tour and the pay-per-view special for the Balance tour. The band became less and less potent, even strictly and solely by Van Hagar standards, with each subsequent tour. I think that's sort of true in general for the Hagar years, where the longer that lineup stuck around, the less special they became. Like, I never once heard anyone in my social circles bragging that they scored Van Hagar tickets, whereas when Roth was in the band nabbing tickets to a show actually WAS something brag about: it wasn't like you had to go through hoops to see the band live when Sammy was with them after the first 5150 tour. Tickets were easy to get.

After Roth left, the legend of what that band had been just got larger the longer they remained split. That's why the 1996 reunion generated so much interest. Unlike the 2004 Hagar reunion tour, where the band were playing to at times less than full venues. It extends to the present, where I don't get much of a sense people are eagerly salivating over the prospect of Hagar rejoining the group. I mean, I suppose hardcore Hagar fans and Eddie grunts - who seem to accept whatever these guys undertake without reservation - will be excited about that prospect. Then again, for such peoples Sammy could take a dump onstage accompanied to Eddie producing Elephant noises on his guitar and they would think that was fantastic.

Beyond that devoted audience, I don't feel much of a reaction to Van Hagar 2018. Not nearly as much as I felt in 2007 with Roth rejoining. Maybe my personal preferences are coloring my take on that and the links, redrocker.com and vanhalen.net are going nuts over the possibilities.

[Terry]

I'm a bit proud to say that I honestly don't have the slightest clue what the fuck you are talking about.

I listened to 5150 a couple of times and saw "Live without a net" once. That's all the Hagar I could talk about if I have to.

I did end up buying 5150, OU812 and FUCK when they were released. 5150 was a given for me to get because I was huge on Eddie Van Halen and was interested to hear what the band would do with Roth gone. OU812 and FUCK to see if it was going to get any better.

I believe I heard their version of Won't Get Fooled Again off the FUCK live album once or twice on the radio. I've also heard Balance two or three times. I stopped spending my own money on their stuff after FUCK came out. Far as the studio stuff goes, all those albums had a few tracks that were fair to good on an instrumental level. All those albums also had a few tracks that sounded uninspired to the point where I don't even think Roth had enough sugar to make lemonade out of those lemons. And all those albums also had a few tracks that chugged along to no particular effect, good or bad.

It sounded at times after Roth left as if Eddie simply wasn't being challenged during the creative and recording process. One could almost hear depending on the track where it was clear Eddie was pushing himself to channel his inspiration, and also where Eddie was fobbing off (by his own previous standards) cookie-cutter rock riffs and neither Hagar nor the producers were saying that stuff could be improved with more work. A bit lax on quality control, and allowing average stuff to slip by inspection, to put it into basic manufacturing terms.

But, yeah, as has been said, Sammy Hagar is at the end of the day an average talent. Average lyricist, average musician and I'd say perhaps a slightly above average singer. Hagar wasn't going to elevate what was going on musically in Van Halen via his participation, because he simply couldn't. I mean, I never thought it was beyond the realms of possibility that Eddie could have made compelling rock music without David Lee Roth...that it was impossible for that happen if a singer other than Roth was working with Eddie. It wouldn't be CVH obviously, but it could be something fantastic in its own right. However, any thoughts I had of Eddie making that kind of music with Hagar mostly vanished by the time OU812 came out, and with the FUCK release it was clear that the only reason left to even listen to the group was to hear what Eddie was doing. It must also be said that Eddie started going a bit on autopilot at times during the Van Hagar years (rearranging CVH material at times a la Source Of Infection as a Hot For Teacher Redux or Top Of The World as a DTNA/Jump hybrid or Mine All Mine which recycled the synth music used for Dave's 1984 tour samurai sword routine), so even the reasons for continuing to listen to the band centering around Eddie's playing started to dwindle.

[Terry]

For me, Sammy Hagar and Gary Cherone are both a case of that "fake it until you make it" mentality, or the Peter principle.

I was always thought it was telling in the wake of the early autumn 1996 fallout when Ray Danniels publicly commented in a lengthy Entertainment Weekly magazine story on the whole fracas that if Van Halen were to move forward and mature the music (as to why that needed to be Van Halen's goal then I won't hazard a guess) they had no chance of doing so with Sammy Hagar continuing to put his hammy, B-level arena rock level of talent on display. Now, as to why Gary Cherone would be the candidate to forward the music beyond having been managed by Danniels when Cherone was in Extreme is another gray area. I did, however, think Danniels was spot-on with his assessment of Hagar's abilities.

What was the one other project prior to Van Halen that Hagar advocates point to as an example of Hagar's greatness? His brief time in Montrose. I'd argue whatever greatness one thinks Montrose reached had a bit more to do with the instrumental end than the lyrics and vocals. Same with Cherone: he was in Extreme, and Extreme did some good stuff, but most of that to me had to do with what Nuno Bettencourt brought to the table, with Cherone being along for the ride (unless one thinks More Than Words was timeless rather than - as I do - merely timely).

What Hagar and Cherone had in terms of talent reserves was fine when put into the context of the caliber of Hagar's solo career or Extreme. Neither of which were up to anything approaching the standards of what CVH did. Hagar and Cherone by nature of who they were couldn't help relaunch Van Halen to the supersonic heights the band reached as a matter of course during the Roth years, because neither of them had enough game prior to Van Halen to reach those levels before joining: Eddie couldn't do all the heavy lifting for them. All Eddie could do was hand them the baseball bat. He couldn't swing it for them and knock the ball out of the park.

[vandeleur]

I'm a bit proud to say that I honestly don't have the slightest clue what the fuck you are talking about.

I listened to 5150 a couple of times and saw "Live without a net" once. That's all the Hagar I could talk about if I have to.

Well said

[Nickdfresh]

I'm assuming the clip (which I haven't watched) is from...what is it...Live Right Here Right Now, or whatever the live home video release from the FUCK tour was called.

I did watch that release once.

I think I've actually seen all the official Van Hagar live releases, if they were limited to the Live Without A Net, the FUCK tour and the pay-per-view special for the Balance tour. The band became less and less potent, even strictly and solely by Van Hagar standards, with each subsequent tour. I think that's sort of true in general for the Hagar years, where the longer that lineup stuck around, the less special they became. Like, I never once heard anyone in my social circles bragging that they scored Van Hagar tickets, whereas when Roth was in the band nabbing tickets to a show actually WAS something brag about: it wasn't like you had to go through hoops to see the band live when Sammy was with them after the first 5150 tour. Tickets were easy to get.

After Roth left, the legend of what that band had been just got larger the longer they remained split. That's why the 1996 reunion generated so much interest. Unlike the 2004 Hagar reunion tour, where the band were playing to at times less than full venues. It extends to the present, where I don't get much of a sense people are eagerly salivating over the prospect of Hagar rejoining the group. I mean, I suppose hardcore Hagar fans and Eddie grunts - who seem to accept whatever these guys undertake without reservation - will be excited about that prospect. Then again, for such peoples Sammy could take a dump onstage accompanied to Eddie producing Elephant noises on his guitar and they would think that was fantastic.

Beyond that devoted audience, I don't feel much of a reaction to Van Hagar 2018. Not nearly as much as I felt in 2007 with Roth rejoining. Maybe my personal preferences are coloring my take on that and the links, redrocker.com and vanhalen.net are going nuts over the possibilities.

I've only seen a couple solos but I think some at the Links said that although things might have been weak overall on Balance Tour,
that Ed was playing well and was relatively sober for most of it...

[Terry]

I've only seen a couple solos but I think some at the Links said that although things might have been weak overall on Balance Tour,
that Ed was playing well and was relatively sober for most of it...

From my own perspective, that Balance pay per view show was kinda...meh. Like, I'm glad I didn't pay $29.99 or whatever it cost to watch it when it was originally broadcast.

The band gave a functional, perfunctory performance. I mean, I suppose it says something about Van Halen's sustained drawing power in the mid 1990s that they would have been considered a worthy enough draw in terms of paying tv viewers. I have no idea what kind of ratings or profits that Balance ppv drew, and I didn't even get around to watching the show until I got it as an unrequested (and unwanted, but whatever, I didn't complain) extra threw in by a trader when I used to swap bootlegs. I think I was trading for Brazil 1983, and I had Argentina 1983, and the dude had been looking for Argentina 1983...this was in the late 1990s, when I was still trading on VHS. So he was so happy to get his hands on Argentina 1983 that he just threw the Balance show in on a separate tape along with the Brazil 1983 show. Boot traders throwing in extra stuff is (or was 20 years ago, anyway) the height of swap etiquette, where it's more the thought that counts rather than if you like the content.

So I got to watch the Balance show. Honestly, it was more interesting watching the band perform with Cherone in 1998 Down Under (gary's nutsack), if only because they were actually doing more CVH stuff than Hagar ever did...although to Hagar's credit he tended to fondle his own grundle onstage much, much less than Cherone would during his stint with the band...

[chuckjitsu]

Terry squarely hits the nail with this: "The band became less and less potent, even strictly and solely by Van Hagar standards, with each subsequent tour. I think that's sort of true in general for the Hagar years, where the longer that lineup stuck around, the less special they became."

Totally agree with that. Each subsequent Van Hagar album/tour became more of a "meh" experience for me. Maybe it was just me getting older, but my enthusiasm for the band definitely decreased over the course of the Sam years. For me, there's just no comparison between the Dave and Sam eras. The Dave era tunes are better and the live experience was better. If i was given a choice between ADKOT or any Sam Halen era disc I'd take ADKOT without hesitation and that's even with half of ADKOT being updated versions of old songs. What does that say about the Sam era stuff?

There was some decent music in the Sam era, 5150 and Humans Being come to mind, but even on those few and far between exceptional tracks, I always wondered what Dave could/would have done with that music. '85 truly was the end of a great era.

[Terry]

Terry squarely hits the nail with this: "The band became less and less potent, even strictly and solely by Van Hagar standards, with each subsequent tour. I think that's sort of true in general for the Hagar years, where the longer that lineup stuck around, the less special they became."

Totally agree with that. Each subsequent Van Hagar album/tour became more of a "meh" experience for me. Maybe it was just me getting older, but my enthusiasm for the band definitely decreased over the course of the Sam years. For me, there's just no comparison between the Dave and Sam eras. The Dave era tunes are better and the live experience was better. If i was given a choice between ADKOT or any Sam Halen era disc I'd take ADKOT without hesitation and that's even with half of ADKOT being updated versions of old songs. What does that say about the Sam era stuff?

There was some decent music in the Sam era, 5150 and Humans Being come to mind, but even on those few and far between exceptional tracks, I always wondered what Dave could/would have done with that music. '85 truly was the end of a great era.

I mean, I'll tell you without hesitation when I was into the band during the CVH years, probably 60% of my interest (if not slightly more) was totally focused on what Eddie was doing. I appreciated what the rest of the group brought to the proceedings, but not really quite as much as I was just laser focused on Eddie's guitar work.

It's hard to believe now, but way back then there were more than a few people (and a LOT of rock critics) who flat-out thought that Roth was solely a show off with a loud mouth and some cool stage moves who couldn't sing worth a shit...that on some level what Roth was doing wasn't equal to what Eddie brought to the group. I never felt that way, but back in 1985 while I was as surprised as anyone when Roth quit I didn't think it was therefore impossible that Van Halen wouldn't go on to create new music that was just as good as what the band had been doing: I mean, hey, the band still had Eddie. Alex and Mike would still be there. It wouldn't be the same without Dave, but back then Eddie had just came off of 6 albums where he had (as Frank Zappa once said) reinvented rock guitar.

When I heard Hagar was going to be the new singer, my reaction wasn't automatically negative. I wasn't a huge Hagar fan prior to the announcement, but I figured what Eddie would be doing going forward would continue to be as spectacular as all the CVH stuff had been. I wasn't exactly huge over the Crazy From The Heat EP. The videos were goofy and funny, but the music wasn't exactly astounding (a feeling I still have to this day). I barely knew who Steve Vai was when it was announced he was joining up with Roth, had never even heard of Billy. In late 1985, the circumstances were such that I would have been a prime candidate to remain a fan of Van Halen, and my expectations for a David Lee Roth solo career weren't particularly high.

5150 came out, and man...THAT was a bigger shock than Roth leaving the band a year prior. "What the FUCK happened to Van Halen?" was the question of the day. A few months later, Eat 'Em And Smile was released, and by the end of the first time listening to the album it was clear where the essence, attitude and fury of CVH went. By rights of simple mathematics, one would have thought 3/4's of CVH would have carried that CVH essence forward in a way that a CFTH-period Roth could never have hoped to. Just goes to show what I knew!

However, I was still a huge fan of Eddie Van Halen. I kept listening, but I couldn't make allowances for what the band was doing with Hagar because my reaction to music is just visceral. Music either moves me or it doesn't. I couldn't turn dogshit into diamonds where the Van Hagar stuff was concerned just because I totally dug what Eddie had done on the first 6 albums. I couldn't convince myself the band was as good to me as it had been, because to me it simply wasn't. And it wasn't all because of what Sammy was doing, either.

For me, OU812 was even less underwhelming than 5150 had been. About the only track I even liked was AFU (Naturally Wired). In some ways there was a rebound on an instrumental level with FUCK, but it was even more clear that Hagar had upped his game as much as he was capable of doing on the first record he recorded with the band. And I think Van Halen got a little lazy, self-satisfied and complacent when Sammy joined. Possibly because they had a pretty big commercial success right out of the box with Hagar with 5150. Whatever percentage of those sales being inherited from CVH or whatever to one side, to give that album the due it is owed one has to say it moved a lot of units right out of the gate.

However, I think this was a double-edged sword for the band, because they just started not quite trying as hard. And the albums weren't coming out nearly as fast as they had during the Dave years. To be sure, Sam Halen didn't have a 4 year head start prior to making their first album and tons of material in reserve to spread out among subsequent releases like CVH did. But I think there were generally 2 or 3 year gaps between albums when Sam was in the band. Even taking into account one year of that gap was utilized for touring, that gives them at least a year to make each album after 5150. And there's an awful lot of filler on those albums, where the band is clearly coasting, considering the amount of time they had to make them. To be sure Diver Down was a rush job, so CVH weren't 100% blameless when it came to putting out some filler themselves. However, at least with Diver Down it WAS an admitted rush job. There were 3 years between the releases of OU812 and FUCK, the same with FUCK and Balance. There's an awful lot of filler on OU812 and Balance. What's the excuse there? Eddie had a studio in his backyard for some of those albums (I think Balance wasn't recorded at 5150, if I recall correctly), unlike Diver Down.

By the time Balance came out, I had a couple of listens to the record and it was an endurance test to get to the end of the album BOTH times. Really, the only Van Hagar record I semi-enjoyed listening to overall was FUCK, because at least the instrumentation was a bit more muscular than the previous two albums had been and the album sounded like a proper Van Halen album in terms of production (no electronic drums and trebly synths). I mean, for me, Can't Stop Loving You and Never Enough...hearing that shit was just depressing...even by Van Hagar standards. And even the rock tunes on that last Van Hagar album just rang hollow off my ears. Just a bunch of disposable bunk. By the time Balance was released, unlike the other three studio releases Van Hagar weren't even able to come up with a couple of rock tunes that I thought had potential for being something better.

Can't Stop Loving You sounded like it could have been written and played by just about anybody. In point of fact, it sounded like a pop tune somebody else had written that Sammy and Ed were covering...like something Desmond Child or Michael Bolton would have written. What was that other single...Don't Tell Me What Love Can Do? Lazy and plodding musically, with these faux-sincere college freshman Psych 101 lyrics...

Like, it may have shocked the Van Halens, but it wasn't a surprise to anyone else why the Return Of Roth in 1996 was getting so many people psyched up in a way that I personally never felt the whole time Sammy was in the group.

[Von Halen]

There were several issues with Van Hagar. The cheesy lyrics and Clichegar sounding pretty much the same on all the songs are a couple. But I think the biggest issue is, the songs just came too easy. I don't think they put in the work on the songs with Clichegar, that they did with Dave. Also, there really wasn't any conflict or aggression in most of those songs. I don't think it is a coincidence that the consensus among most is, Humans Being is probably one of the best songs of the Van Hagar era. Before the horrific few songs they did in 2004, Humans Being was the last song they wrote together. There was massive tension at that time, as it was the end of the road for Van Hagar. I think it makes a big difference when everything isn't always fun and games, and you're not all on the same page, even though you all have the same goal.

Not to mention my age old theory on what every great band needs, and that is chemistry. Van Hagar had okay chemistry, but Van Halen had knockdown drag out chemistry. Chemistry that was developed over many years of hard work, and playing anything and everything. It's the reason Dave era Van Halen can cover virtually any song ever written and Van Halenize it making it their own. Not many bands can cover any song, and make it as great or greater than it was originally. Dave era Van Halen could do that. I attribute that to Dave more than the Van Halens, but they also played a lot of different styles of stuff in their youth, and it helped them immensely. I do not believe Dave had great chemistry with the EEAS band, as I don't believe Van Hagar had great chemistry. For all the yapping by the ched heads about how great Clichegar's range is, and how much better of a singer than Dave he is, he cannot cover just anything. Clichegar can only cover stuff that is in his type of singing. Dave can cover ANYHING, and if it's not great, it's still pretty fucking good. I mean look at all the stuff Dave has covered over the years. Solo and with VH. He fucking nails everything.

Ray once told me when he was in the DLR Band, they'd go sit out in Dave's backyard and Dave would bring out a ghetto blaster with all different genres of music. They would sit out there and work on, and jam those songs for hours and hours, learning every single thing about them. He said Dave was adamant about being both versatile, and diverse. Dave also demanded that of Van Halen. Whether or not the VH brothers would admit that was a big part of their success, I don't know. But as Greg wrote about in his book, those guys worked their asses off honing their craft. Playing everywhere and anywhere. They never did, or had to do that, with Clichegar. They were already established, and so was he. The effort just wasn't there.