Van Hagar To Tour In 2017

[Terry]

I dunno...the idea that Van Halen, which over the last 2 decades in essence boils down to Eddie/Alex and whoever they want to sing for them, are going to look beyond previous lead singers and get someone new in there and really make a concerted effort to look forward as opposed to backward...that this will result in something new and exciting musically from the band...

I mean, I like the idea. I really do. If only because the nostalgia route (another tour with Hagar notwithstanding) has been pretty much tapped out, at least as far as my own interest level goes. Like, I understood in 2007 why that first reunion tour was gonna be an oldies only setlist, given the nature of how it came together. 5 years later, in some respects the band made a smart decision to revamp a 1/2 dozen 35 year old demos for inclusion: they all had that signature CVH sound that would appeal to CVH fans, and would only help reestablish a connection with the Van Halen record buying public. They would also be easier starting points for the band to work on, rather than trying to create an entire album from scratch. Much in the way the first reunion tour was going to be easier as an oldies only tour, rather than trying to make a new album in advance of that. THAT would have been a stretch (keeping in mind the amount of time it took Eddie just to get cleaned up for that tour).

My hope was that the band would by now have went on to create another album of predominately new material. While nobody was expecting these guys to put out a new album every year like the CVH days, it's been ten years since they got back together. If it is just (as both of them have stated) that Eddie and Dave have musical differences in personal tastes that make creating new music arduous at best, or they just don't feel the drive or need to put out new music (keeping in mind Ed's 2011 comments that he saw little point in putting out new material if fewer people are buying records than before and many are content to simply download the content for free), the DLR VH reunion of the last decade hasn't resulted in a bounty of new material...and clearly it isn't going to. So where does this lineup go from here? A CVH Greatest Hits tour every few years to refill the coffers?

Ed made a (wrongheaded or not) ballsy decision in 1996 NOT to go the easy route. The easiest thing for him to have done in 1996 would have been to do an album and tour with Dave. It's what I wanted to see. Putting the specific choice of Cherone and the merits of that to one side, Ed was clear back then that he didn't want to become a nostalgia act. They went ahead with Cherone. Ed called the shots for Van Halen III: that was Eddie's baby. Three years later, they saw the results of that bold decision. One can argue (and I'd tend to agree) that the songs simply weren't there for Van Halen III, but in the end they produced an album that sold a fraction of what all the Van Halen albums before that did - and this was well before massive amounts of people could pirate it online for free - and they got dropped from Warner Brothers as a result.

On a creative front, going with a new singer now would to my mind be the most authentic expression of Ed's desire (assuming he even has such a desire) to not be tethered to his past. The problem with Van Halen is that the accomplishments of their history are so baked into the cake now that anything they do with any other singer other than Roth or Hagar is inevitably going to be compared with what the band did with those two singers...and probably will be judged as coming up short.

So, say you're Eddie Van Halen 'Right Now'...do you say thanks to Dave and Sam for the memories and get a fourth singer, knowing in all probability that if your last record with Dave could barely crack a million in sales something with a fourth singer will be lucky to sell half of that in today's climate? Or, do you go forward with a Hagar tour? What would the touring guarantees financially be like for Van Halen Mach 5? How many promoters would even bother investing nickel one into securing venues and dates for a Van Halen tour now featuring a new lead singer? Irving Azoff doesn't have a credible sales pitch to sell what any promoter with an ounce of sense would see as another Van Halen III debacle in the making: a polished turd is still a turd.

[Von Halen]

At this point, I'd love to hear what they could do with a completely different singer. But then you get into the question of, do they go with a proven guy from another band? Or do they go with someone completely unknown? Either way, like Terry said, it will ultimately be measured against both previous versions of the band, and more than likely won't measure up. Not that it couldn't, but I just can't see it being accepted by CVH or Van Hagar fan. That leaves for the most part, a reliance on the average, or even completely new fan, to provide the sales of not only the album, but a tour in support. I do not see that happening in today's climate of the business.

They could always get Dave and Sam clones, and go out and play whatever the fuck they want to play. They seem to love to dictate, so that would give them the ultimate power. 2 hired guns that sing what they are told to sing, and don't create any hassles in the process. Or worse yet, since Dave doesn't seem interested in a dual tour, they go out with Sam, and have a Dave clone sing the CVH songs. How much would that piss off CVH fan? Ed, Al, Mike and a Dave clone, along with Clichegar! Ha ha ha! Holy shit. That would be worth the payment to the internet host, just to read all the bitching!

If the money weren't in nostalgia, all these bands doing nostalgia shows these days, wouldn't be prospering, like they are. I mean fuck, most of these bands are well beyond just a clone lead singer. Hell, a lot of them barely have one original member. They're the band in name alone.

[DONNIEP]

Ed should hire Ralph and put on a real fucking show!! Who gives a shit if it ain't really Dave? I'd pay 125 bucks to see that show!

[chuckjitsu]

I personally don't think Ed has any interest in putting out new material with any singer, whether it's Dave, Sam, or some Filipino dude they dug up who sounds like Steve Perry. Ed's made statements about fan expectations in regard to what fans are willing to accept, so I think the odds of a completely new front man are basically zero. So, scratch new material with somebody other than Sam/Dave. Slightly higher would be a new album with Dave, but "slightly higher" in this case basically means "some very small number that's barely above zero". The most likely scenario to me would be new stuff with Sam, but even that has a pretty low chance in my mind.

Let's say the Velveeta '17 tour happens. Then what? How many times can they get away with touring behind a 70+ year old dude in Capris? I think doing anything with Sam drives the final nail into doing anything further with Dave. In my mind, it would really be a disservice to fans if the original lineup never plays together again. That's how you ride off in to the sunset for the Dave era- Mike's back in, Dave turns off the cruise control and steps up like he did in 07-08 and the VH tsunami destroys sheds across America. Probably has as much of a chance of happening as a narcissistic, unqualified failure of a businessman losing a popular vote by millions of votes then becoming president via a retarded, antiquated and disenfranchising "electoral college" system.

[Terry]

At this point, I'd love to hear what they could do with a completely different singer. But then you get into the question of, do they go with a proven guy from another band? Or do they go with someone completely unknown? Either way, like Terry said, it will ultimately be measured against both previous versions of the band, and more than likely won't measure up. Not that it couldn't, but I just can't see it being accepted by CVH or Van Hagar fan. That leaves for the most part, a reliance on the average, or even completely new fan, to provide the sales of not only the album, but a tour in support. I do not see that happening in today's climate of the business.

They could always get Dave and Sam clones, and go out and play whatever the fuck they want to play. They seem to love to dictate, so that would give them the ultimate power. 2 hired guns that sing what they are told to sing, and don't create any hassles in the process. Or worse yet, since Dave doesn't seem interested in a dual tour, they go out with Sam, and have a Dave clone sing the CVH songs. How much would that piss off CVH fan? Ed, Al, Mike and a Dave clone, along with Clichegar! Ha ha ha! Holy shit. That would be worth the payment to the internet host, just to read all the bitching!

If the money weren't in nostalgia, all these bands doing nostalgia shows these days, wouldn't be prospering, like they are. I mean fuck, most of these bands are well beyond just a clone lead singer. Hell, a lot of them barely have one original member. They're the band in name alone.

I mean, I gotta tell ya that in theory that when considering what Dave brings to the stage these days, the idea of getting Ralph in there doesn't sound completely hairbrained: the quality of the lead vocals, which is the pivotal point that will keep me from seeing them in the future, would increase to an acceptable level immediately. One can say what they want about the KISS scabs, but it extended KISS's touring viability by several more years than it would have had Frehley and Criss stayed in the group.

As a concert-goer, I don't really care if Eddie and Dave are friends or not. My take on the 2008 and 2012 shows I saw wasn't "oh, it's too bad Ed was too fucked up to play and it's too bad Dave can't cut the mustard vocally anymore, because it was worth $100 a ticket just to see them onstage being friendly again!" I felt a bit gypped in both instances - I paid premium prices to see two shows that really weren't worth the price of admission. Somewhat the same way I felt in the mid 1980s when Hagar joined the band and they were all smiles and high-fives: I didn't give two shits how great that blossoming friendship was when the music failed to move me.

In many ways, the band over the last 15 years can't even measure up to the standards they set even when all or most of the original members of the two lineups are present: I didn't exactly see a deluge of Van Hagar fans lauding Up For Breakfast as a new, timeless Sam Halen classic when that tune was released. If the original members of the first two Van Halen lineups can't measure up to their legacy when they reunite, what chance does a 4th singer have in exactly the terms Von laid out: acceptance? Acceptance and today's music business climate, just as Von said, is the essence of the dilemma.

Much like how Ed turned to Dave in 2006 because the Hagar option was then not viable because of personality conflicts and Ed had no other viable move to make if he wanted to keep working, it's not unreasonable to suggest that Ed could turn to Sam now out of a sense that maybe the Dave Reunion has, for a variety of reasons, simply run its course, and outside of Roth and Hagar Ed HAS no other choices: a 4th singer, regardless of who, is the path to commercial/financial underperforming far as monetary returns go. There are lifestyles to maintain.

Even having said all of that, I'd be interested in hearing what Ed could do with a 4th singer. Although I possibly could be in the minority there, because I'm in an odd spot of having only liked the Roth-led lineup while now having no real interest in that lineup continuing since that's just gonna be restricted to an oldies cash grab every few years.

[cadaverdog]

I've got another suggestion that I don't think anyone has offered up. Instead of another Van Halen album and/or tour with whoever on bass and vocals how about an Ed with or without Alex side project? Something different without the classic EVH sound.
Same thing with Dave. Instead of rehashing some old shit how about trying something new. The John 5 stuff might be something depending on his availability or something completely different ala Robert Plant and Alison Krauss.

[Terry]

I personally don't think Ed has any interest in putting out new material with any singer, whether it's Dave, Sam, or some Filipino dude they dug up who sounds like Steve Perry. Ed's made statements about fan expectations in regard to what fans are willing to accept, so I think the odds of a completely new front man are basically zero. So, scratch new material with somebody other than Sam/Dave. Slightly higher would be a new album with Dave, but "slightly higher" in this case basically means "some very small number that's barely above zero". The most likely scenario to me would be new stuff with Sam, but even that has a pretty low chance in my mind.

Let's say the Velveeta '17 tour happens. Then what? How many times can they get away with touring behind a 70+ year old dude in Capris? I think doing anything with Sam drives the final nail into doing anything further with Dave. In my mind, it would really be a disservice to fans if the original lineup never plays together again. That's how you ride off in to the sunset for the Dave era- Mike's back in, Dave turns off the cruise control and steps up like he did in 07-08 and the VH tsunami destroys sheds across America. Probably has as much of a chance of happening as a narcissistic, unqualified failure of a businessman losing a popular vote by millions of votes then becoming president via a retarded, antiquated and disenfranchising "electoral college" system.

The thing of it is, I don't think either of the Van Halens or Azoff necessarily have a long term strategy. I don't even know how useful such a strategy would even be considering how old the band is and where they are all at, career-wise. Basically, the Van Halens need to be fronted by either Roth or Hagar for enough people to actually pony up the dollars to see the band. And Roth and Hagar, if they aren't fronting Van Halen, are going to be doing solo ventures on a much smaller scale because the interest in them as solo artists these days isn't close to the level of interest when they front Van Halen.

You can almost completely remove the studio recording aspect from the equation now. Recordings don't sell what they used to, the band is no longer dependent on having a record contract to exist, and live shows are where the money is at these days. The era of Van Halen putting out a new record that sells millions of copies, regardless of content or who is singing for them, is over.

I also think it would be (as it has been) the ultimate "I don't give a shit about what you want" from Ed to the fans if the original lineup never performs again. Particularly when he's gone 3/4s of the way over the last 15 years toward that, anyway. I don't know how Michael Anthony feels about performing with the CVH lineup. From what one has read, Anthony has had a limited number of encounters with Roth over the last 30 years, and virtually no contact with the Van Halens over the last 12 years. And Anthony is pretty solvent financially, so it's gotta be more than money that would motivate him to do a reunion. In addition, Ed - and I think any reasonable person would see it along these lines - has shit all over Anthony. Not only has he shit all over him, but he feels totally justified in having done so. I mean, fuck, Ed whittled down Anthony's percentage, then chucked him out of the band for his teenaged kid, then went on to claim Anthony couldn't even play anything that Ed didn't teach him AND claimed that Ed's background vocals were a bigger part of the signature Van Halen sound than Anthony's were! And this was AFTER ED GOT SOBER!!

If I were Mike Anthony, my first and last thought would be that Ed can pretty much go fuck himself and no amount of money is worth dealing with that guy. However, I could see where Anthony would be up for another Van Hagar tour. It won't surprise me if in the end he doesn't end up playing with the band, though. Anthony has such a que sera sera attitude that it seemingly wouldn't bother him if Sam does a tour with Van Halen without him. And I could just as easily see Anthony do a CVH tour because he knows fans want to see that happen, and Anthony would be willing to put aside his own feelings to make that happen for the fans.

But...yeah...it's kinda futile to ponder how much of a future Van Halen have beyond the next tour, regardless of who ends up being onstage for that tour. The short answer is that the band can't really do much beyond just taking it one tour at a time within the limited parameters of who they have to work with that is acceptable to the ticket buying public. How many times can they get away with touring behind Hagar? As many as they can with Roth, and the answer to that is as many times as people are willing to pay to see it. How many times THAT will be is speculative: it's not dark yet, but it's getting there.

[cadaverdog]

Ed should hire Ralph and put on a real fucking show!! Who gives a shit if it ain't really Dave? I'd pay 125 bucks to see that show!

That's not a bad idea. Didn't work out to well for Judas Priest with Ripper Owens or Journey with Steve Aguirre but it worked out damn good for AC/DC with Brian Johnson.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

I've got another suggestion that I don't think anyone has offered up. Instead of another Van Halen album and/or tour with whoever on bass and vocals how about an Ed with or without Alex side project? Something different without the classic EVH sound.

I used to think that would be great as well...

But the more years that have gone by, I don't think it would be much different at all.... I think it would be the same 5 or 6 riffs he's been playing all these years...

Put it this way, don't you think after 40 years that he could change his solo, even a little bit?

[Von Halen]

Let's face it. Whatever Ed decides to do, he is doing it to sell more EVH branded stuff like the guitars. He's trying to bank as much as he can, because he knows that the odds of Wolf making VH type bank on his own, are slim to none. I'm sure he'd like to leave Wolf a sizable bank account, and the EVH brand. With Ed getting ready to release the 5150 version of his guitar as a Striped Series version in 2017, he knows he'll sell more copies of it if he is out there playing live. I am of the opinion that he believes he is down to one choice for another tour, and that's with Clichegar. Like I said in the original post, they have dug just about as far into CVH fans pocket as they can, without giving something substantial in return, and now it is time to get back into Van Hagar fans pockets.

[cadaverdog]

Probably has as much of a chance of happening as a narcissistic, unqualified failure of a businessman losing a popular vote by millions of votes then becoming president via a retarded, antiquated and disenfranchising "electoral college" system.

The system by which President Elect Trump won the election had been around for years. If it was the other way around you'd be praising the electoral college system right now. Trump won, you lost, deal with it.

[cadaverdog]

Let's face it. Whatever Ed decides to do, he is doing it to sell more EVH branded stuff like the guitars. He's trying to bank as much as he can, because he knows that the odds of Wolf making VH type bank on his own, are slim to none. I'm sure he'd like to leave Wolf a sizable bank account, and the EVH brand. With Ed getting ready to release the 5150 version of his guitar as a Striped Series version in 2017, he knows he'll sell more copies of it if he is out there playing live. I am of the opinion that he believes he is down to one choice for another tour, and that's with Clichegar. Like I said in the original post, they have dug just about as far into CVH fans pocket as they can, without giving something substantial in return, and now it is time to get back into Van Hagar fans pockets.

Makes you wonder what makes Jimmy Page so eager to put out something new. I'm sure most of it is the fact that Robert Plant has no plans whatsoever to do anymore Zep shows regardless of how much he could make doing it. It's odd how Page with all his guitar talent can't seem to have anywhere near the amount of success he's had with Plant without him. The Firm was the only thing that even came close.

[chuckjitsu]

The system by which President Elect Trump won the election had been around for years. If it was the other way around you'd be praising the electoral college system right now. Trump won, you lost, deal with it.

If Hilary had won in the manner in which Trump did (lost popular vote, won via EC), I'd feel the exact way about the electoral college. Any system in which the person who receives more legally cast votes doesn't win is flawed to the point of needing to be scrapped entirely, regardless of anybody's part affiliation.

If it makes you feel any better, I didn't vote for Trump OR Hilary as I felt both were terrible candidates who didn't deserve my vote. And if his idea of "draining the swamp" is hiring the same sort of bankster and neocon losers who played a large part in getting us to where we are today, then the new boss is already looking like the old boss and he hasn't even been sworn in yet.

We'll see, but I'm not optimistic at this point (and I'd definitely feel the same way if Clinton had won, probably more so).

[Seshmeister]

The system by which President Elect Trump won the election had been around for years. If it was the other way around you'd be praising the electoral college system right now. Trump won, you lost, deal with it.

He didn't lose and you didn't win, that happened to very rich powerful people.

[Seshmeister]

Let's face it. Whatever Ed decides to do, he is doing it to sell more EVH branded stuff like the guitars.

I have to say at this point I wish Van Halen were as reliable and great sounding as my EVH amp.