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Thread: Sammy Still Begging . . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Va Beach VH Fan View Post
    I honestly think it's both.....

    I think he's sincere that he wants to mend the fences with the brothers, but I don't think that applies to DLR. I think he wants to humiliate him night after night... That's why IMO he wants to play a few Van Hagar songs, then bring DLR on for Van Halen songs, etc.
    Yeah, but all that would serve to do is embarrass what Roth has become in terms of a singer and performer now when contrasted with 30 + years ago. And, truth be told, Hagar might have held up better than Roth over the years re: now vs. back then, but even Hagar isn't the performer he was 30 years ago, either.

    None of that will elevate the actual recorded legacy of the band, in terms of one era vs. another, inasmuch as I can't imagine that happening with any reasonable person. It'd be hard to imagine those partial to CVH reassessing that stance if such a co-headlining tour happened and Roth bombed while Hagar knocked the Van Hagar set out of the park.
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    Roth's last two tours with the band haven't been all that great from a lead vocal perspective, and that level of performance clearly is what it is now: you either accept it and continue to buy tickets for the shows, or you don't.

    In the age of youtube and fan-made videos, potential ticket buyers have an idea very early on in a tour - within a couple of hours of the first show of Van Halen's 2015 tour ending - how the band is sounding. So most people outside of those ticket holders for the initial dates basically know what they're getting. I say all of this because that's how I made my choice not to see any 2015 shows.

    So, if Hagar has some bizarre idea that a co-headlining tour would elicit some large-scale reassessment of either of the eras to Hagar's benefit, I mean, clearly he's free to believe that...apparently he believes Van Hagar sold 80 million records, so hyperbole isn't a concept he is unfamiliar with.

    I just don't see Dave doing it in the end. I mean, if his personal, individual guarantee was massive...if he had a worthwhile payday for such a tour...maybe he would. As sort of a Last Waltz with a big check handed to him. Because, really, the idea of Dave going back to doing solo gigs in smaller venues...he's on the wrong side of 60 for that stuff, and the demand for Roth solo isn't high. I have no idea what Roth's finances are like - if he's set up for life or not - but I'd have to imagine a big, last payday would be appealing. Juxtaposing that, it'd still be hard to imagine Roth wanting to do such a co-headlining tour. Not because he's afraid of the Hagar comparisons in terms of Roth looking bad, but rather because Roth clearly believes what he did with Van Halen was exceptional, and that Hagar doesn't even deserve to be associated with that body of work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    Yeah, but all that would serve to do is embarrass what Roth has become in terms of a singer and performer now when contrasted with 30 + years ago. And, truth be told, Hagar might have held up better than Roth over the years re: now vs. back then, but even Hagar isn't the performer he was 30 years ago, either.

    ....
    Yeah, I don't think Hagar is capable of much more than Dave at this point....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    Yeah, I don't think Hagar is capable of much more than Dave at this point....
    I mean, I've seen some clips of Hagar's recent shows - specifically the band playing Poundcake - and Hagar's voice wasn't what it used to be, either...and the band were playing at least a half-step down from the recorded version, to boot. Hagar was just walking around the stage, slightly bloated...he wasn't belting the tune out in a manner that recalled the original version, so if THAT is the level of performance Hagar would bring to a theoretical Van Halen/Van Hagar co-lead singer headlining tour, I don't see Hagar having the ability currently to make Roth feel embarrassed.

    It'd be two aging ex-lead singers from Van Halen instead of one, with neither of them really able to bring to the stage a level of performance equal to their heydays with the band.

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    Oh by the way, in case if you were wondering if DLR is out of his yelping phase....

    Um, no....

    [ Sorry, I can only find the video posted on Toshi's FB page.... ]

    https://www.facebook.com/toshimusic/...5920085659905/
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    Quote Originally Posted by Va Beach VH Fan View Post
    Oh by the way, in case if you were wondering if DLR is out of his yelping phase....

    Um, no....

    [ Sorry, I can only find the video posted on Toshi's FB page.... ]

    https://www.facebook.com/toshimusic/...5920085659905/
    Wow, next year's tour is gonna be awesome...
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    Ouch
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    Quote Originally Posted by Va Beach VH Fan View Post
    Oh by the way, in case if you were wondering if DLR is out of his yelping phase....

    Um, no....

    [ Sorry, I can only find the video posted on Toshi's FB page.... ]

    https://www.facebook.com/toshimusic/...5920085659905/
    Honestly, pretty abysmal and painful to listen to.

    Does nobody tell Dave this? Apparently not. This was his vocal strategy in 2012, and it's not working.

    Sadly, all Roth needs to do is sing and leave the yelping to one side: Roth's normal singing voice now isn't all that great, either, but ditching the yelping would be a marked improvement.

    As to the rest of it, all the herky-jerky Wacky Uncle Dave stage theatrics...ugh.

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    Definitive David Lee Roth?

    Motherfuckers still want to see Dave with the EEAS band? Seriously? He couldn't sing those songs properly 15 years ago, he sure as fuck can't (won't) do it now.

    It pains me to admit it, but Dave has become a sad caricature of himself.
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    Band does a good job on Jump.



    Last edited by Seshmeister; 09-13-2017 at 09:28 AM.
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    Thats not saying a lot tho .... Daves dance moves are getting creepier as the years go by.
    More the clown from it than the frontman from van halen.

    People say he can't hit the same register ..... gonna end up on one

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    Where is that footage even from? Has Dave gone back to backyard parties in Pasadena?

    I'm assuming this is some sort of private or corporate gig?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Halen View Post
    Definitive David Lee Roth?

    Motherfuckers still want to see Dave with the EEAS band? Seriously? He couldn't sing those songs properly 15 years ago, he sure as fuck can't (won't) do it now.

    It pains me to admit it, but Dave has become a sad caricature of himself.
    I mean, I personally don't get any sense of snarky satisfaction watching Roth's performances as of the last several years and pointing out the nosedive in terms of quality, but what he brings to the stage now...it's past the point of trying to cobble together enough bits of silver to manufacture a lining for the guy.

    If Dave can't cut the mustard with Van Halen onstage, regardless of Anthony being in the group or not...shit, Dave isn't even cutting it in those clips...WHY would one think it would be any better with the EEAS band?

    And it's just...I don't WANT to say sad, but it is. To me, Roth was one of THE best all-around rock front men of all time. And I don't think it's beyond Roth to come up with new material better suited for what is left of his range these days that could make for interesting listening. But he HAS become a bit of a sad caricature of what he could bring to the stage 40, 30, even 20 years ago. Since 1999, he has just been waning. He took a major dip after the 2007/2008 tour, and hasn't gotten any better since. Just a little less effective with each subsequent outing.

    That's a big part of why it matters not to me if Van Halen reforms with Hagar for a tour at this point: there's really nothing left for the band TO do with Roth going forward other than more of the same, and that just isn't cutting it anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vandeleur View Post
    Thats not saying a lot tho .... Daves dance moves are getting creepier as the years go by.
    More the clown from it than the frontman from van halen.

    People say he can't hit the same register ..... gonna end up on one
    Ha!

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    I was thinking about something. I remember seeing live Stones footage when I was a young teenager and thinking how bad Mick sounded. Just terrible. It really reminds me of how Dave has become. Then I saw The Stones in 88 and I was really impressed by how much better Mick sounded. Since then it seems he has taken a better shot at trying to sing better. He's still not the most amazing vocalist ever, but he doesn't sound fucking terrible like he did in the early 80's footage. I had heard that he took vocal lessons. Perhaps it did and he got help in his delivery through new techniques, and perhaps it could benefit DLR to do the same. I mean come on Rob Halford blows your fucking eardrums hitting high notes still, it isn't impossible at advanced age to keep a modicum of vocal skills sharp, but I dunno, it seems very similar to me with Mick/DLR except that at one time DLR has some great live vocals(Listen to him do the screams on the first concert of the VHII tour in Outta Love Again-impressive) while Mick never was a vocal ace . But Mick sounds better live now than DLR does. Is it lessons? Is it the material? Is it technique? Is it that he cares a bit more than DLR? Did he take criticism to heart at some point?
    I just find it very similar and think DLR could get some help and sound better. There are times when you see his approach working better on some songs until he reverts back to a technique that used to serve him well that sabotages him . Hell , I just saw Ratt a few months back and Pearcy notoriously has but ok to downright terrible in the 4 past times I saw him , yet he sounded really good this time.
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    I'm thinking VH should do the Dio thing, and just put a hologram of 1980 Dave out there.

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    Just like people in later life buy that car that they had when they were young, looking for that "elusive" return to youth through reliving often leaves them empty more than scratches the itch. Things get old, and bands/performers do too, and most of the time it's never pretty......
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    Quote Originally Posted by Igosplut View Post
    Just like people in later life buy that car that they had when they were young, looking for that "elusive" return to youth through reliving often leaves them empty more than scratches the itch. Things get old, and bands/performers do too, and most of the time it's never pretty......
    Nostalgia tours are only worth seeing if the band can reasonably approximate the material onstage as it was originally recorded.

    Most times, it is the lead vocals that end up doing these aging bands in for me. I get that it must be a motherfucker to maintain a lead singer's voice when they age. Particularly if their catalog is rife with screaming and high notes sung by a young man in his 20s or 30s: it's just not reasonable to expect that stuff to be replicated 30+ years on.

    So these bands tune down from the original recorded versions to give the lead singer some room to breathe and not strain as much. But some of these bands are tuning down more and more as they age to the point where even the instrumentation just sounds weird/off/wrong. And eventually it inevitably reaches a point where the lead singer's voice just gives out in terms of cutting the mustard. Van Halen have reached that point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grit View Post
    At every chance Sammy Hagar can . . . . he tells every interviewer that he lusts for a Van Halen Reunion with Dave and him trading songs. Is it possible that such an event (which I hope never happens) could create a real battle between Dave Fans and Sammy Fans? I can see a Hagar fan booing Dave or vise versa and a huge fight happening. Of course Dave Fans would kick the shit out of Sammy fans but does anyone else think that might happen if they actually toured? . . . Curious.
    Yes, there would be actual fights and I have mentioned this too before in a post where you allow both fractions of a band with a fractioned identity present a show where one fan based is forced to endure another version which they despise
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    Roth's last two tours with the band haven't been all that great from a lead vocal perspective, and that level of performance clearly is what it is now: you either accept it and continue to buy tickets for the shows, or you don't.

    In the age of youtube and fan-made videos, potential ticket buyers have an idea very early on in a tour - within a couple of hours of the first show of Van Halen's 2015 tour ending - how the band is sounding. So most people outside of those ticket holders for the initial dates basically know what they're getting. I say all of this because that's how I made my choice not to see any 2015 shows.

    So, if Hagar has some bizarre idea that a co-headlining tour would elicit some large-scale reassessment of either of the eras to Hagar's benefit, I mean, clearly he's free to believe that...apparently he believes Van Hagar sold 80 million records, so hyperbole isn't a concept he is unfamiliar with.

    I just don't see Dave doing it in the end. I mean, if his personal, individual guarantee was massive...if he had a worthwhile payday for such a tour...maybe he would. As sort of a Last Waltz with a big check handed to him. Because, really, the idea of Dave going back to doing solo gigs in smaller venues...he's on the wrong side of 60 for that stuff, and the demand for Roth solo isn't high. I have no idea what Roth's finances are like - if he's set up for life or not - but I'd have to imagine a big, last payday would be appealing. Juxtaposing that, it'd still be hard to imagine Roth wanting to do such a co-headlining tour. Not because he's afraid of the Hagar comparisons in terms of Roth looking bad, but rather because Roth clearly believes what he did with Van Halen was exceptional, and that Hagar doesn't even deserve to be associated with that body of work.
    If Dave does not do a tour with Van Halen and share the stage with Hagar, then Hagar will never get justification to be included in what people call 'Van Halen'. Hagar knows this and Dave has complete control of Hagar's Van Halen legacy. Now Hagar has become what he really was, 'a replacement singer'... Hagar touring with Van Halen without Dave does nothing for him and that is why Hagar is willing to do it for free with the whole "give my money to charity for the gig" as a holier than thou excuse to cloak his desperate position

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetstream View Post
    Yes, there would be actual fights and I have mentioned this too before in a post where you allow both fractions of a band with a fractioned identity present a show where one fan based is forced to endure another version which they despise
    SMH... actual fights? Are you serious..?

    Call it... the Riots in the Rest Home Tour!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetstream View Post
    If Dave does not do a tour with Van Halen and share the stage with Hagar, then Hagar will never get justification to be included in what people call 'Van Halen'. Hagar knows this and Dave has complete control of Hagar's Van Halen legacy. Now Hagar has become what he really was, 'a replacement singer'... Hagar touring with Van Halen without Dave does nothing for him and that is why Hagar is willing to do it for free with the whole "give my money to charity for the gig" as a holier than thou excuse to cloak his desperate position
    It isn't beyond the realm of possibility that somewhere deep down Hagar is still nagged by a sense of being looked upon by a sizable segment of Van Halen's fan base as 'the replacement singer'...although from his general demeanor in recent interviews I don't get the sense that Hagar is a particularly unhappy person lacking in self-confidence, especially at this stage of the game.

    I think enough people consider Hagar a legitimate singer in Van Halen. I mean, that Sam Halen lineup still sold a respectable amount of records and filled arenas throughout Hagar's decade-long tenure, and it wasn't like that version of the group were overloading their set lists with CVH tunes, either. You don't sell that many records and put that many asses in seats year-after-year if the majority of that audience doesn't like what the lead singer, Hagar, has brought to the group. Granted, their best selling record was their first, so clearly some of that initial Hagar success was inherited, but even there...like, Jump brought a whole lot of people over to Van Halen in Roth's last year who didn't like what the band had done prior to that. Some of that Jump-centric success undoubtedly spilled over into the 5150 release.

    Also, it is difficult to say with precision what the percentages of Van Halen's fan base these days are, in terms of a) how many only like the CVH lineup, b) how many only like the Hagar version of the band, c) how many are diehard Eddie fans who would turn up to shows even if Boy George were singing for them, d) how many like both versions of the band, or e) how many are just casual fans who only know the tunes from both eras that got the largest amount of airplay on radio and MTV. Neither Roth nor Hagar will ever be able to satisfy all those factions.

    I think Hagar has a general sense of befuddlement, because he honestly thinks he is plain, flat-out better than Roth. While Hagar certainly owns up to the easy, self-evident truth that CVH were a massively successful band, Hagar overall thought Roth even in [Roth's] heyday was a clownish showoff buffoon with more chutzpah than talent. Despite Hagar's consistent on-the-record prevarications over the years regarding CVH's sales stats vs. Van Hagar's, I have no doubt Hagar knows the truth about the numbers. And I think it still mystifies Hagar as to why someone like Roth - who Hagar has more contempt than respect for - is looked upon by what one could safely say to be a majority of fans as THE definitive singer for Van Halen, while Hagar is looked upon mostly as the replacement singer/2nd singer/merely 'a' singer for Van Halen.

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    Now Hagar says a VH reunion is "not on his bucket list"

    http://www.vhnd.com/2017/09/16/sammy-hagar-dead-horse/

    Ed must have told him no, we will not play any of your solo songs on the reunion tour.
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    It's the original Van Halen's 40th Anniversarry approaching... which has not a damn thing to do with Hagar. Why muddy the murky water with that crap..?

    Come 2025 then Sam can have his shot... if he and the VH bros are still around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    c) how many are diehard Eddie fans who would turn up to shows even if Boy George were singing for them,...
    Ooooh! Finally a singer that can match the true range of Edward's guitar!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    ....

    I think Hagar has a general sense of befuddlement, because he honestly thinks he is plain, flat-out better than Roth. While Hagar certainly owns up to the easy, self-evident truth that CVH were a massively successful band, Hagar overall thought Roth even in [Roth's] heyday was a clownish showoff buffoon with more chutzpah than talent. Despite Hagar's consistent on-the-record prevarications over the years regarding CVH's sales stats vs. Van Hagar's, I have no doubt Hagar knows the truth about the numbers. And I think it still mystifies Hagar as to why someone like Roth - who Hagar has more contempt than respect for - is looked upon by what one could safely say to be a majority of fans as THE definitive singer for Van Halen, while Hagar is looked upon mostly as the replacement singer/2nd singer/merely 'a' singer for Van Halen.
    I think these are all good points. But I would "Balance" that befuddlement and Sam's belief that he's a better singer or whatever with Sam sort of being the perpetual 80's teen comedy archetype of the 'best-friendzoned' orbiter of the hot girl constantly making mix-tapes for her while he can't understand that she only wants to be his friend, but always wants to fuck Roth. And you know those mix-tape always have Why Can't this be Love...

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    Quote Originally Posted by twonabomber View Post
    Now Hagar says a VH reunion is "not on his bucket list"

    http://www.vhnd.com/2017/09/16/sammy-hagar-dead-horse/

    Ed must have told him no, we will not play any of your solo songs on the reunion tour.
    It'd be hard for me to imagine a Hagar reunion would be on anybody's bucket list in terms of concert-goers, but I suppose there are people out there who would like to see it...

    For myself, a CVH reunion would be...what's the word I'm looking for here...'nice' if it happened. I don't think Anthony rejoining would make the band or the performances sound much (if at all) better than they currently would already with Wolfgang playing, so it would be more in terms of a gesture and perhaps concluding the live work of the band on a "back to where it all started" note. I think the reality is that a CVH reunion is really the only thing Van Halen can do at this point to generate a substantial level of interest in future shows beyond what another tour with Wolfgang (or Hagar) would produce.

    But, you know, Roth is basically past it. I think Hagar is correct in that Van Halen is a dead horse, and not just in terms of future involvement with Hagar. The band have been back together with Dave for a decade. They have managed to go on three tours, make an album that was half reworked leftovers (and the other half that wasn't really only had a couple of tunes that rose to the level of CVH excellence) and fob off an uninspired live album that nobody asked for, or wanted. Even taking into account the advancing age of the band, 1 album in a decade isn't an indication that Ed or Dave have any serious ambitions regarding the creation of new material. They've accepted Van Halen as a nostalgia act that, for now, remains a solid source of guaranteed revenue.

    And all of that is fine, for them: good work if you can get it, I suppose. Ten years ago, I was frankly hopeful Roth rejoining and Ed seemingly getting control of his addictions would produce something more than what we got, specifically in terms of new either new music or at least issuing previously unreleased CVH material. I suppose in the end the principals, Roth and the Van Halen brothers, just waited ten years too long to finally get it together, and what we got was the best they were capable of doing by the time they got around to doing it. C'est la vie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    I think these are all good points. But I would "Balance" that befuddlement and Sam's belief that he's a better singer or whatever with Sam sort of being the perpetual 80's teen comedy archetype of the 'best-friendzoned' orbiter of the hot girl constantly making mix-tapes for her while he can't understand that she only wants to be his friend, but always wants to fuck Roth. And you know those mix-tape always have Why Can't this be Love...
    Being at ground zero in high school when Roth left and Hagar came aboard, I can say the primary observation I noticed is that pre-1984, Van Halen appealed to stoners/burnouts/partiers. The release of the Jump single started the transition and the 5150 album solidified the bringing onboard of the segment of students who were 'big man on campus' jocks/'good girl' cheerleaders or student government types: Van Halen once Hagar joined were now safe for kids who basically listened to their parents and teachers and did what they were told.

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