Results 1 to 38 of 38

Thread: Cheeto's Reverse Robin Hood "Tax plan" : Even Worse Than You Thought.

  1. #1
    Cascadian Secession NOW!!
    ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

    FORD's Avatar
    Member No
    32
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Last Online
    Today @ 10:40 AM
    Location
    Cascadia
    Posts
    51,908
    Status
    Offline
    Thanks
    3,088
    Thanked 5,663 Times in 4,202 Posts


    Rep Power
    123

    Cheeto's Reverse Robin Hood "Tax plan" : Even Worse Than You Thought.



    washingtonpost.com
    Senate GOP tax bill hurts the poor more than originally thought, CBO finds
    By Heather Long
    11-26-17



    The Senate Republican tax plan gives substantial tax cuts and benefits to Americans earning more than $100,000 a year, while the nation’s poorest would be worse off, according to a report released Sunday by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office.

    Republicans are aiming to have the full Senate vote on the tax plan as early as this week, but the new CBO analysis showing large, harmful effects on the poor may complicate those plans. The CBO also said the bill would add $1.4 trillion to the deficit over the next decade, a potential problem for Republican lawmakers worried about America’s growing debt.

    Democrats have repeatedly slammed the bill as a giveaway to the rich at the expense of the poor. In addition to lowering taxes for businesses and many individuals, the Senate bill also makes a major change to health insurance that the CBO projects would have a harsh impact on lower-income families.

    By 2019, Americans earning less than $30,000 a year would be worse off under the Senate bill, CBO found. By 2021, Americans earning $40,000 or less would be net losers, and by 2027, most people earning less than $75,000 a year would be worse off. On the flip side, millionaires and those earning $100,000 to $500,000 would be big beneficiaries, according to the CBO’s calculations. (In the CBO table below, negative signs mean people in those income brackets pay less in taxes).


    Source: Congressional Budget Office report on Nov. 26, 2017.


    The main reason the poor get hit so hard in the Senate GOP bill is because the poor would receive less government aid for health care.

    The Senate Republican tax bill eliminates the requirement that almost all Americans purchase health insurance or else pay a penalty. The CBO has calculated that health insurance premiums would rise if this bill becomes law, leading 4 million Americans to lose health insurance by 2019 and 13 million to lose insurance by 2027.

    Many of the people who are likely to drop health insurance have low or moderate incomes. If they drop health insurance, they will no longer receive some tax credits and subsidies from the government. The Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT), the other official nonpartisan group that analyzes tax bills, put out a similar report showing how lower-income families are hurt by the loss of the health-care tax credits. But the CBO goes a step further than the JCT. The CBO also calculates what would happen to Medicaid, Medicare and the Basic Health Program if the Senate GOP plan became law. The CBO is showing even worse impacts on poor families than the JCT did.

    Republicans, including Senate Finance Committee Chairman Orrin G. Hatch (R-Utah), have argued that their bill helps Americans across the income spectrum. They say the JCT and CBO analyses are misleading because buying health insurance is a choice. If an individual or family no longer wants to do it, then that is their decision. They also argue that lower-income families are not losing any money in their wallets.

    The CBO and JCT analyses make it seem as if a family is actually getting money taken away from them, but in reality, most of these families making under $30,000 don’t pay any income tax. The credits and subsidies they received to help them buy health insurance were typically sent directly from the government to the insurance company. So these families are unlikely to see any changes to their tax bills.

    But Democrats and advocates for the poor say these lower-income Americans are going to be worse off if they no longer have health insurance.

    Senate Republicans asked the JCT to calculate what happens to families across the income spectrum if only the tax impacts of the Senate bill are taken into account (so assuming zero impacts from the individual mandate repeal). The JCT sent the table below to Senate Republicans. It shows that all income groups — including people earning less than $30,000 — receive a tax cut.

    But that changes in 2027 because the Senate GOP bill currently allows the individual tax cuts to expire in 2026. In 2027, people earning less than $75,000 would end up paying more, according to the JCT. Republicans say Congress will likely extend those cuts, but that counts on future lawmakers taking action.


    Source: JCT report for Senate Republicans showing the distributional effects of the Senate GOP tax plan without any changes to health care.


    Heather Long is an economics correspondent. Prior to joining Wonkblog, she was a senior economics reporter at CNN and a columnist and deputy editor at The Patriot-News in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.
    Hey Jackass! You need to [Register] or log in to view signatures on ROTHARMY.COM!

  2. #2
    Helen Mirren's crudder
    ROTH ARMY SUPREME
    Terry's Avatar
    Member No
    181
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 02:02 PM
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    9,617
    Status
    Offline
    Thanks
    2,790
    Thanked 1,637 Times in 1,020 Posts


    Rep Power
    39
    I particularly like how the impact of the tax cuts on the lower classes (a not insubstantial part of Trump's base) won't really be felt until 2020 or beyond, after Trump has theoretically won a 2nd term.

    Because it is obvious Trump doesn't give a shit about any of it beyond his own presidency: assuming he actually wins a 2nd term, he could care less who runs/wins after him. Assuming he doesn't run for a 2nd term or runs for a 2nd term and loses, he STILL won't care what happens after he's gone.

    Because whatever happens won't be his fault anyway: that's the mindset.
    Hey Jackass! You need to [Register] or log in to view signatures on ROTHARMY.COM!

  3. #3
    Associative-Mechanical
    DIAMOND STATUS
    Kristy's Avatar
    Member No
    7609
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 12:41 AM
    Location
    Denver, Colo
    Posts
    13,278
    Status
    Offline
    Thanks
    1,558
    Thanked 2,379 Times in 1,756 Posts


    Rep Power
    51
    More awesome news! The Rethuglicons will die in 2020. Plus there is nothing in this plan that isn't reversible; the Rethuglicons want to fuck over as much of the poor as quickly as they can before they turn lobbyist.

    Now, aren't you glad these fucking bigoted Bernie brats put Trump in power?
    Hey Jackass! You need to [Register] or log in to view signatures on ROTHARMY.COM!

  4. #4
    Cascadian Secession NOW!!
    ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

    FORD's Avatar
    Member No
    32
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Last Online
    Today @ 10:40 AM
    Location
    Cascadia
    Posts
    51,908
    Status
    Offline
    Thanks
    3,088
    Thanked 5,663 Times in 4,202 Posts


    Rep Power
    123

  5. #5
    Cascadian Secession NOW!!
    ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

    FORD's Avatar
    Member No
    32
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Last Online
    Today @ 10:40 AM
    Location
    Cascadia
    Posts
    51,908
    Status
    Offline
    Thanks
    3,088
    Thanked 5,663 Times in 4,202 Posts


    Rep Power
    123
    Friends of Bernie Sanders

    Ford -

    For the past 40 years, the financial and political elite of this country have rigged the tax code to redistribute wealth and income to some of the richest and most powerful people in this country. The result: we are moving rapidly toward an oligarchic form of society in which the top 1 percent is doing phenomenally well, the middle class continues to decline and 40 million Americans are living in poverty.

    And it will probably not surprise you to learn that just as our tax code benefits the wealthiest people in this country, it also benefits some of the largest and most profitable corporations in the world with a myriad of tax breaks, deductions, credits and other loopholes. As a result, one out of five large profitable corporations today pays nothing in federal taxes.

    The current Republican “tax cut” bill, paid for by the Koch brothers and other billionaire campaign contributors, continues the push to make the rich richer at the expense of everyone else. It would raise taxes on middle class families making $75,000 a year or less and would throw 13 million Americans off of health insurance. And it would do all of these things to provide permanent tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans and profitable corporations that ship American jobs to China while moving their American profits to the Cayman Islands.

    But let's be clear. This legislation goes well beyond taxes. Its ultimate goal is to radically transform American society and the role that government plays in the lives of the working families of our country. This legislation will increase the deficit by at least $1.5 trillion over ten years. Mark my words. If passed, the Republicans will then rediscover the "deficit crisis," and push aggressively for massive cuts in Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, education – higher education in particular – nutrition, affordable housing and more. They will seek to undo every major piece of legislation passed in the last 80 years designed to help working families, the elderly, the children, the sick and the poor.

    This is the Republican plan. Huge tax breaks for the rich and powerful. Massive cuts to life and death programs for the middle class and working families of our country.

    This is not moral. This is not what the American people want. This is not what our country and our pledge for "liberty and justice for all" is supposed to be about.

    That is why I am going on the road this week to talk directly to working people in Kentucky, Ohio, and Pennsylvania about this disastrous piece of legislation. If we stand together – black, white, Latino, Asian American, Native American, male and female, young and old, gay and straight – we can defeat this horrific bill. But I need you to make your voice heard as well. We need to stand together.

    Please sign my petition calling on Congress to REJECT the Republican “tax cut” plan that would take from the working families in this country to give a massive tax break to people and corporations who already are doing extremely well. At a time of grotesque levels of income and wealth inequality, we must not make a bad situation even worse.

    Today in America, more than 40 million Americans, including 20 percent of all children, live in poverty. Many in extreme poverty. Almost 28 million Americans have no health insurance. Millions of bright kids can’t afford to go to college without facing a lifetime of debt. Seniors and disabled veterans are struggling to stay alive on inadequate Social Security checks.

    Despite all of that pain, the greed of the billionaire class in this country knows no limits. No. We will not allow them to take away from those in need in order to give a trillion dollars in tax breaks to the very rich.

    Here’s a radical idea for my colleagues in the Republican Party: instead of just listening to the rich and powerful few in this country, maybe just maybe Congress should listen to the majority of the American people who want a fair tax system.

    Maybe just maybe corporate tax reform should start by preventing profitable companies from sheltering profits in tax haven countries like the Cayman Islands.

    Here is something you may not know:

    A 2008 Government Accountability Office report found that 83 of the Fortune 100 companies use at least one offshore tax scheme to lower their taxes. A 2016 study found that one of every five large, profitable corporations paid no federal income taxes at all in 2012.

    The practice of stashing profits in places like the Cayman Islands has become so absurd that one single, five-story office building there is now the official legal “home” to more than 18,000 corporations! Our tax code has essentially legalized tax dodging for large corporations.

    We must stop this bill. We must stop the Republicans from moving this country into an oligarchy.

    And that starts with all of us standing up, fighting back and making our voices heard. Three weeks ago progressives from coast to coast ran for office at the local and state level – and they won. We have to continue that progress and build on that momentum.

    Please sign my petition calling on Congress to REJECT the Republican “tax cut” plan that would take from working families in this country all to give a massive tax break to people and corporations who already have it all.

    Brothers and sisters. We must do exactly the opposite of what Trump is attempting to do. He wants to divide us up by the color of our skin, our gender, our religion, our sexual orientation or our country of origin. He wants us fighting with each other while Wall Street and the billionaire class laugh all the way to the bank.

    Our job is to bring our people together around an agenda that creates an economy and government that works for all, not just the 1 percent. Defeating this terrible piece of legislation will be an important step forward.

    This bill is a moral abomination. I hope you’ll add your name if you agree.

    In solidarity,

    Bernie Sanders

  6. #6
    Cascadian Secession NOW!!
    ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

    FORD's Avatar
    Member No
    32
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Last Online
    Today @ 10:40 AM
    Location
    Cascadia
    Posts
    51,908
    Status
    Offline
    Thanks
    3,088
    Thanked 5,663 Times in 4,202 Posts


    Rep Power
    123
    Sanders Institute

    Ford,

    “Don’t fall for supply-side, trickle-down nonsense. Lower taxes on the rich don’t generate growth and jobs. They only make the rich even richer, at a time of raging inequality, and they cause bigger budget deficits.” – Robert Reich, Sanders Institute Founding Fellow

    Congress is now considering a proposed GOP tax plan and is expected to vote on it in the coming weeks. Who benefits? Who doesn’t? We all need to understand the impact of the proposed bill and let our voices be heard before the vote takes place. We at the Sanders Institute have compiled some information from our fellows and other resources to give you some answers:

    Why The Republican Tax Plan Is More Failed Trickle-Down Economics

    This article from Robert Reich succinctly explains why Trickle-Down Economics just does not work. He gives clear, historical examples of when trickle-down economics has been implemented and failed and when the opposite, tax increases on the wealthy, have worked.

    CBO Projects the Impact of GOP Tax Plan

    The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office released this report on Sunday. It clearly shows that the federal government would be raising taxes on those making less and generously benefiting those making more. For instance, Americans making less than $30,000 in 2019 will pay $2,580,000,000 more in taxes - while those making over $200,000 will pay $118,550,000,000 less in taxes in 2019.




    The GOP Wants To Eliminate The Estate Tax

    This article outlines a bold new idea when talking about the Estate Tax, a tax that the GOP plan would repeal. It argues that the growing inequality in the United States has negatively affected Social Security and suggests that we keep the Estate Tax to reduce that inequality and make Social Security more sustainable.

    There is a lot at stake in this far-reaching legislation. Educate yourselves, take a stand, and let your voices be heard.

    Thank you for staying engaged,

    David Driscoll
    Executive Director
    The Sanders Institute

  7. #7
    Cascadian Secession NOW!!
    ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

    FORD's Avatar
    Member No
    32
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Last Online
    Today @ 10:40 AM
    Location
    Cascadia
    Posts
    51,908
    Status
    Offline
    Thanks
    3,088
    Thanked 5,663 Times in 4,202 Posts


    Rep Power
    123

    Why The Republican Tax Plan Is More Failed Trickle-Down Economics

    by Prof. Robert Reich

    October 2017

    Trump and conservatives in Congress are planning a big tax cut for millionaires and billionaires. To justify it they’re using the oldest song in their playbook, claiming tax cuts on the rich will trickle down to working families in the form of stronger economic growth.

    Baloney. Trickle-down economics is a cruel joke. Just look at the evidence:

    1. Clinton’s tax increase on the rich hardly stalled the economy. In 1993, Bill Clinton raised taxes on top earners from 31 percent to 39.6 percent. Conservatives predicted economic disaster. Instead, the economy created 23 million jobs and the economy grew for 8 straight years in what was then the longest expansion in history. The federal budget went into surplus.

    2. George W. Bush’s big tax cuts for the rich didn’t grow the economy. In 2001and 2003, George W. Bush lowered the top tax rate to 35 percent while also cutting top rates on capital gains and dividends. Conservative supply-siders predicted an economic boom. Instead, the economy barely grew at all, and then in 2008 it collapsed. Meanwhile, the federal deficit ballooned.

    3. Obama’s tax hike on the rich didn’t slow the economy. At the end of 2012, President Obama struck a deal to restore the 39.6 percent top tax rate and raise tax rates on capital gains and dividends. Once again, supply-side conservatives predicted doom. Instead, the economy grew steadily, and the expansion is still continuing.

    4. The Reagan recovery of the early 1980s wasn’t driven by Reagan’s tax cut. Conservative supply-siders point to Ronald Reagan’s 1981 tax cuts. But the so-called Reagan recovery of the early 1980s was driven by low interest rates and big increase in government spending.

    5. Kansas cut taxes on the rich and is a basket case. California raised them and is thriving. In 2012, Kansas slashed taxes on top earners and business owners, while California raised taxes on top earners to the highest state rate in the nation. Since then, California has had among the strongest economic growth of any state, while Kansas has fallen behind most other states.

    So don’t fall for supply-side, trickle-down nonsense. Lower taxes on the rich don’t generate growth and jobs. They only make the rich even richer, at a time of raging inequality, and they cause bigger budget deficits.

  8. Thanked FORD for this KICKASS post:

    DavidLeeNatra (12-02-2017)


  9. #8
    DIAMOND STATUS
    Nitro Express's Avatar
    Member No
    7682
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Last Online
    12-16-2017 @ 04:02 PM
    Location
    Jackson Hole, Wyoming
    Posts
    28,278
    Status
    Offline
    Thanks
    1,117
    Thanked 3,132 Times in 2,546 Posts


    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    75
    Whatever. Both Sanders and Reich live pretty good. They certainly aren't lower class. Both probably got a taste of the K Street gig. How much did Sanders get from the Clinton Foundation to throw the fight?
    Hey Jackass! You need to [Register] or log in to view signatures on ROTHARMY.COM!

  10. #9
    Cascadian Secession NOW!!
    ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

    FORD's Avatar
    Member No
    32
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Last Online
    Today @ 10:40 AM
    Location
    Cascadia
    Posts
    51,908
    Status
    Offline
    Thanks
    3,088
    Thanked 5,663 Times in 4,202 Posts


    Rep Power
    123

  11. #10
    Cascadian Secession NOW!!
    ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

    FORD's Avatar
    Member No
    32
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Last Online
    Today @ 10:40 AM
    Location
    Cascadia
    Posts
    51,908
    Status
    Offline
    Thanks
    3,088
    Thanked 5,663 Times in 4,202 Posts


    Rep Power
    123

  12. #11
    Associative-Mechanical
    DIAMOND STATUS
    Kristy's Avatar
    Member No
    7609
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 12:41 AM
    Location
    Denver, Colo
    Posts
    13,278
    Status
    Offline
    Thanks
    1,558
    Thanked 2,379 Times in 1,756 Posts


    Rep Power
    51
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Express View Post
    Whatever. Both Sanders and Reich live pretty good. They certainly aren't lower class. Both probably got a taste of the K Street gig. How much did Sanders get from the Clinton Foundation to throw the fight?
    Thanks to Trump's Tax "reform" disphits like yourself are about to be a low(er) class than you already are. Enjoy.

  13. #12
    ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

    Seshmeister's Avatar
    Member No
    11
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 09:20 PM
    Location
    Scotland
    Age
    97
    Posts
    30,426
    Status
    Offline
    Thanks
    2,208
    Thanked 7,925 Times in 5,024 Posts


    Rep Power
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Express View Post
    Whatever. Both Sanders and Reich live pretty good. They certainly aren't lower class. Both probably got a taste of the K Street gig. How much did Sanders get from the Clinton Foundation to throw the fight?
    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?
    Hey Jackass! You need to [Register] or log in to view signatures on ROTHARMY.COM!

  14. #13
    ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

    Seshmeister's Avatar
    Member No
    11
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 09:20 PM
    Location
    Scotland
    Age
    97
    Posts
    30,426
    Status
    Offline
    Thanks
    2,208
    Thanked 7,925 Times in 5,024 Posts


    Rep Power
    10
    I think you probably have some money so you supporting this stuff is understandable, you are a bit of a selfish cunt and you are gambling on things not getting so out of hand the scum rise up and kill you.

    I get that.

    The extra trillion debt, it's such a big number it's kind of meaningless.

    The thing that I can't not get pissed off about because it happens here just as much is the idiot poor people who vote to hand it over.

    It doesn't directly affect me but even just watching it from the sidelines still upsets me a bit. You will have built up some intellectual armor to protect yourself from the cuntery involved but we all know that's just BS. At least have the guts to admit you are screwing them.

    We'll all be dead soon enough so fuck it but still....

  15. #14
    CoVfEfe!!
    SUPER MODERATOR

    Nickdfresh's Avatar
    Member No
    8719
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Last Online
    Today @ 02:08 PM
    Location
    Buffalo, NY
    Age
    47
    Posts
    45,148
    Status
    Online
    Thanks
    2,573
    Thanked 3,964 Times in 2,959 Posts


    Rep Power
    100
    Fucking over the middle classes isn't even good for the wealthy...
    Hey Jackass! You need to [Register] or log in to view signatures on ROTHARMY.COM!

  16. #15
    Helen Mirren's crudder
    ROTH ARMY SUPREME
    Terry's Avatar
    Member No
    181
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 02:02 PM
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    9,617
    Status
    Offline
    Thanks
    2,790
    Thanked 1,637 Times in 1,020 Posts


    Rep Power
    39
    It'd actually be refreshing if those in the Congress voting for this tax restructuring just flat-out said they were redistributing wealth upward, and people just have to fend for themselves.

    It's the reality of capitalism by and large anyway. Why not have the testicular fortitude to call it what it is and tell it like it is?

    Pussies like Mulvaney hiding behind bogus statistics and projections: no balls and no guts. Just like Ryan, McConnell and the rest.

    Whatever one thinks of Sanders, at least he has the stones to lay it all out on the table.

  17. #16
    Cascadian Secession NOW!!
    ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

    FORD's Avatar
    Member No
    32
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Last Online
    Today @ 10:40 AM
    Location
    Cascadia
    Posts
    51,908
    Status
    Offline
    Thanks
    3,088
    Thanked 5,663 Times in 4,202 Posts


    Rep Power
    123
    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

    What difference does that make?

  18. #17
    ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

    Seshmeister's Avatar
    Member No
    11
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 09:20 PM
    Location
    Scotland
    Age
    97
    Posts
    30,426
    Status
    Offline
    Thanks
    2,208
    Thanked 7,925 Times in 5,024 Posts


    Rep Power
    10
    I'm so tired of 'Whataboutery'. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/whataboutery

    In other news I never liked him but Morrissey has only got worse and worse with time, he's a weird right wing racist sexist piece of shit whose music has got even worse.

  19. #18
    Associative-Mechanical
    DIAMOND STATUS
    Kristy's Avatar
    Member No
    7609
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 12:41 AM
    Location
    Denver, Colo
    Posts
    13,278
    Status
    Offline
    Thanks
    1,558
    Thanked 2,379 Times in 1,756 Posts


    Rep Power
    51

  20. #19
    CoVfEfe!!
    SUPER MODERATOR

    Nickdfresh's Avatar
    Member No
    8719
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Last Online
    Today @ 02:08 PM
    Location
    Buffalo, NY
    Age
    47
    Posts
    45,148
    Status
    Online
    Thanks
    2,573
    Thanked 3,964 Times in 2,959 Posts


    Rep Power
    100
    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    I'm so tired of 'Whataboutery'. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/whataboutery

    In other news I never liked him but Morrissey has only got worse and worse with time, he's a weird right wing racist sexist piece of shit whose music has got even worse.

    Which is surprising his music outside The Smiths was never any good...

  21. #20
    Associative-Mechanical
    DIAMOND STATUS
    Kristy's Avatar
    Member No
    7609
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 12:41 AM
    Location
    Denver, Colo
    Posts
    13,278
    Status
    Offline
    Thanks
    1,558
    Thanked 2,379 Times in 1,756 Posts


    Rep Power
    51
    Ghey.

  22. #21
    Associative-Mechanical
    DIAMOND STATUS
    Kristy's Avatar
    Member No
    7609
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 12:41 AM
    Location
    Denver, Colo
    Posts
    13,278
    Status
    Offline
    Thanks
    1,558
    Thanked 2,379 Times in 1,756 Posts


    Rep Power
    51
    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post

    In other news I never liked him but Morrissey has only got worse and worse with time, he's a weird right wing racist sexist piece of shit whose music has got even worse.

  23. #22
    Talks To Trees
    ROTH ARMY SUPREME
    ZahZoo's Avatar
    Member No
    61
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Last Online
    12-16-2017 @ 05:58 PM
    Location
    3rd Stone From The Sun
    Posts
    7,243
    Status
    Offline
    Thanks
    1,563
    Thanked 2,509 Times in 1,580 Posts


    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    47
    For all those opposed to the tax cuts/restructuring... Have you been calling and writing your Washington representatives advising them to oppose this legislation and demanding that your taxes be increased at all costs..?

    What is your personal, current effective tax rate..? What tax reform would you support..?
    Hey Jackass! You need to [Register] or log in to view signatures on ROTHARMY.COM!

  24. Thanked ZahZoo for this KICKASS post:

    Von Halen (12-08-2017)


  25. #23
    Cascadian Secession NOW!!
    ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

    FORD's Avatar
    Member No
    32
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Last Online
    Today @ 10:40 AM
    Location
    Cascadia
    Posts
    51,908
    Status
    Offline
    Thanks
    3,088
    Thanked 5,663 Times in 4,202 Posts


    Rep Power
    123
    We need to go back to the Eisenhower era tax rates. And make that retroactive, in the case of inheritance leeches such as the Kochs and the Waltons.

    It's not a coincidence that no significant infrastructure has been built in this country since 1980. It was the BCE/Reagan regime that started this Trickle Down/Supply Side/Two Santa Claus/Reverse Robin Hood bullshit, and by the end of that senile old bastard's term it should have been obvious it wasn't working.

  26. #24
    Talks To Trees
    ROTH ARMY SUPREME
    ZahZoo's Avatar
    Member No
    61
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Last Online
    12-16-2017 @ 05:58 PM
    Location
    3rd Stone From The Sun
    Posts
    7,243
    Status
    Offline
    Thanks
    1,563
    Thanked 2,509 Times in 1,580 Posts


    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    47
    Ford I think, occasionally... you are bright enough and old enough to understand that the Reagan era tax restructuring did not show their full effect/impact within the time frame of his presidential term. The economics of this country don't turn on a dime or within a couple of years. The cumulative impact wasn't fully realized until Clinton was president and we were able to balance the budget based on the economic growth that started with Reagan's cuts and regulatory restructuring.

    The global economy today and what it was in the 50's when the Eisenhower era tax rates were in place won't work and applying it retroactively is a foolish pipe dream. You should know that applying something that punitively impact the Kochs and the Waltons won't do a damn thing good for anyone paying taxes on working wages compared to global corporate economics.

    Since you don't appear to be someone living a life of luxury based on your corporate earnings... what would you support that would directly impact your bottom line..?

    The reason I ask this is every person I pose the question to, that opposes the proposed tax cuts, would like their effective rate reduced and can not come up with any reasonable excuse to pay more... Can you?

  27. #25
    CoVfEfe!!
    SUPER MODERATOR

    Nickdfresh's Avatar
    Member No
    8719
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Last Online
    Today @ 02:08 PM
    Location
    Buffalo, NY
    Age
    47
    Posts
    45,148
    Status
    Online
    Thanks
    2,573
    Thanked 3,964 Times in 2,959 Posts


    Rep Power
    100
    Quote Originally Posted by ZahZoo View Post
    Ford I think, occasionally... you are bright enough and old enough to understand that the Reagan era tax restructuring did not show their full effect/impact within the time frame of his presidential term. The economics of this country don't turn on a dime or within a couple of years. The cumulative impact wasn't fully realized until Clinton was president and we were able to balance the budget based on the economic growth that started with Reagan's cuts and regulatory restructuring.
    ...
    Well when and how did they? We went into a recession during the first Bush presidency...

  28. #26
    ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

    Von Halen's Avatar
    Member No
    15
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Last Online
    Today @ 01:32 PM
    Location
    Chesterfield Twp., MI
    Age
    54
    Posts
    6,712
    Status
    Online
    Thanks
    1,491
    Thanked 3,015 Times in 1,702 Posts


    Rep Power
    10
    Zah, the tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist snowflakes don’t spend enough time in reality, to answer a question like that.
    Hey Jackass! You need to [Register] or log in to view signatures on ROTHARMY.COM!

  29. #27
    ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

    Seshmeister's Avatar
    Member No
    11
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 09:20 PM
    Location
    Scotland
    Age
    97
    Posts
    30,426
    Status
    Offline
    Thanks
    2,208
    Thanked 7,925 Times in 5,024 Posts


    Rep Power
    10
    If you are one of the people that will really benefit from this then you should be paying all the hosting costs yourself!

  30. #28
    Talks To Trees
    ROTH ARMY SUPREME
    ZahZoo's Avatar
    Member No
    61
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Last Online
    12-16-2017 @ 05:58 PM
    Location
    3rd Stone From The Sun
    Posts
    7,243
    Status
    Offline
    Thanks
    1,563
    Thanked 2,509 Times in 1,580 Posts


    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    47
    Quote Originally Posted by Von Halen View Post
    Zah, the tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist snowflakes don’t spend enough time in reality, to answer a question like that.
    Yep... imagine the stampede that will occur in February/March 2018... when all these snowflakes flock to their therapists because they can't cope with their net take-home pay increasing due to the tax cuts. Don't overlook the horror when job growth explodes and employers start raising wages. It'll be dark times, indeed...

  31. Thanked ZahZoo for this KICKASS post:

    Nitro Express (12-16-2017)


  32. #29
    Associative-Mechanical
    DIAMOND STATUS
    Kristy's Avatar
    Member No
    7609
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 12:41 AM
    Location
    Denver, Colo
    Posts
    13,278
    Status
    Offline
    Thanks
    1,558
    Thanked 2,379 Times in 1,756 Posts


    Rep Power
    51
    Quote Originally Posted by ZahZoo View Post
    Yep... imagine the stampede that will occur in February/March 2018... when all these snowflakes flock to their therapists because they can't cope with their net take-home pay increasing due to the tax cuts. Don't overlook the horror when job growth explodes and employers start raising wages. It'll be dark times, indeed...
    Oh, fuck you. That is a Republican myth and you fucking know it. There are no employers because there are no jobs. Trump's buddies moved them all to Mexico (need to remind you of Carrier, cocksucker?) or China. You show me quality link and statistics of economic and wage growth in the past 25 years in this country and I'll show you prosperity. Go fuck yourself, you Walmart Cheerios eating F A T fuckwit.

  33. #30
    CoVfEfe!!
    SUPER MODERATOR

    Nickdfresh's Avatar
    Member No
    8719
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Last Online
    Today @ 02:08 PM
    Location
    Buffalo, NY
    Age
    47
    Posts
    45,148
    Status
    Online
    Thanks
    2,573
    Thanked 3,964 Times in 2,959 Posts


    Rep Power
    100
    Quote Originally Posted by ZahZoo View Post
    Yep... imagine the stampede that will occur in February/March 2018... when all these snowflakes flock to their therapists because they can't cope with their net take-home pay increasing due to the tax cuts. Don't overlook the horror when job growth explodes and employers start raising wages. It'll be dark times, indeed...
    What about a couple years down the road when they expire? As the corporate tax rate and lowered one for the rich don't?

    This bill is nothing but pissing on the middle class with a temp bribe...

    And even Obama agrees that the corporate tax rate needs cutting and readjusting, but this is a complete whoreathon giveaway in which they give nothing back and have no accountability. It's great for hedge-fund managers and and some shareholders, not for Main St....

    Did I say "whore?" Well, whores make you pay for it!
    Last edited by Nickdfresh; 12-15-2017 at 11:16 AM.

  34. #31
    ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

    Seshmeister's Avatar
    Member No
    11
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 09:20 PM
    Location
    Scotland
    Age
    97
    Posts
    30,426
    Status
    Offline
    Thanks
    2,208
    Thanked 7,925 Times in 5,024 Posts


    Rep Power
    10
    Step aside Abe Lincoln there is a new master orator in town...




  35. #32
    Talks To Trees
    ROTH ARMY SUPREME
    ZahZoo's Avatar
    Member No
    61
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Last Online
    12-16-2017 @ 05:58 PM
    Location
    3rd Stone From The Sun
    Posts
    7,243
    Status
    Offline
    Thanks
    1,563
    Thanked 2,509 Times in 1,580 Posts


    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    47
    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    What about a couple years down the road when they expire? As the corporate tax rate and lowered one for the rich don't?

    This bill is nothing but pissing on the middle class with a temp bribe...

    And even Obama agrees that the corporate tax rate needs cutting and readjusting, but this is a complete whoreathon giveaway in which they give nothing back and have no accountability. It's great for hedge-fund managers and and some shareholders, not for Main St....

    Did I say "whore?" Well, whores make you pay for it!
    Given the rapid change we've seen in the last 8 years as far the economic shifts globally that have changed business significantly in the US... 2026 will be something very different from where we're at today. I can guarantee whoever is governing then, will be looking to adjust tax rates again... most likely that will occur a few times before 2026.

    You talk about "giving back"... I view it as "take less". As both a standard wage earner and a small business owner I see my tax liability reducing for both income streams. Sure, I'd love to see more, but the reality is this does benefit me directly. I'll take it... happily... and leverage the hell out of it as far as I can legally.

    On accountability... yeah, that's a problem. But this tax bill directly applies to the take money from us part of this equation. The spending of the taken money is a completely separate process and legislative function. Yes, they are connected and governed by the Legislative branch... but... taking and spending are not covered in this piece of legislation. Just the "taking" portion is on the table.

    Can the taxes collected be spent more wisely... sure as hell they can! If they were... the deficit and the need to "take" more wouldn't be such a sticky issue. But legislatively they are governed separately. Maybe this is something you folks that oppose the tax legislation might want to come to the table on..? At some point... I'd figure your team might want to do more than just oppose shit on principle with no solutions offered...

  36. #33
    ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

    Von Halen's Avatar
    Member No
    15
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Last Online
    Today @ 01:32 PM
    Location
    Chesterfield Twp., MI
    Age
    54
    Posts
    6,712
    Status
    Online
    Thanks
    1,491
    Thanked 3,015 Times in 1,702 Posts


    Rep Power
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by ZahZoo View Post
    At some point... I'd figure your team might want to do more than just oppose shit on principle with no solutions offered...
    They can’t. It’s not the spoiled brat Liberal way. Either give them what they want, or they’ll lie on the floor and throw a tantrum until they get their way. Maybe Trump should offer them participation trophies, to try to get them to engage in a more meaningful way than tantrums.

  37. Thanked Von Halen for this KICKASS post:

    ZahZoo (12-16-2017)


  38. #34
    King Of Smut
    SUPER MODERATOR

    twonabomber's Avatar
    Member No
    28
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Last Online
    Today @ 06:07 AM
    Location
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Age
    49
    Posts
    8,872
    Status
    Offline
    Thanks
    114
    Thanked 1,746 Times in 1,127 Posts


    Rep Power
    40
    Quote Originally Posted by Kristy View Post
    There are no employers because there are no jobs.
    There are plenty of jobs, but not enough people who want to show up on time and/or sober. And if they do show up they want to play on their phones all day.
    Hey Jackass! You need to [Register] or log in to view signatures on ROTHARMY.COM!

  39. #35
    DIAMOND STATUS
    Nitro Express's Avatar
    Member No
    7682
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Last Online
    12-16-2017 @ 04:02 PM
    Location
    Jackson Hole, Wyoming
    Posts
    28,278
    Status
    Offline
    Thanks
    1,117
    Thanked 3,132 Times in 2,546 Posts


    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    75
    Quote Originally Posted by Von Halen View Post
    They can’t. It’s not the spoiled brat Liberal way. Either give them what they want, or they’ll lie on the floor and throw a tantrum until they get their way. Maybe Trump should offer them participation trophies, to try to get them to engage in a more meaningful way than tantrums.
    It might help also if they could keep their spending inside the Democratic Party under control and keep it from falling into bankruptcy. Everyone in there has a very big mouth and sticky fingers. The party budget gets drained with all sorts of Un-needed cronies and nobody puts anything in the pot. The Clinton Foundation bailed the party out but Hillary was a weak and corrupt candidate and now they are going to double down of fail and make lot’s of noise and make an entertaining and colorful scene on the way to permanent demise. That is the end of just one of many corrupt institutions we are dealing with and as things devolve due to their own corruption and incompetence the country and world will escalate fights on real problems such as the shortage of potable water. Already happening in a California and the politicians can blame global warming all they want. It still won’t fix shit. Better focus on cheap electricity to desalinate sea water or be fucked and cheap electricity never was in the liberal deck of cards.

  40. #36
    DIAMOND STATUS
    Nitro Express's Avatar
    Member No
    7682
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Last Online
    12-16-2017 @ 04:02 PM
    Location
    Jackson Hole, Wyoming
    Posts
    28,278
    Status
    Offline
    Thanks
    1,117
    Thanked 3,132 Times in 2,546 Posts


    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    75
    Quote Originally Posted by twonabomber View Post
    There are plenty of jobs, but not enough people who want to show up on time and/or sober. And if they do show up they want to play on their phones all day.
    Everyone wants to start at the top. Nobody wants to pay dues. Yup if you have no work ethic nobody is going to help you. It starts with that and we all get screwed. Tired of being an employee? Try being responsible for a payroll for awhile. Being an employee is easy. Much harder to be an employer.

  41. #37
    DIAMOND STATUS
    Nitro Express's Avatar
    Member No
    7682
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Last Online
    12-16-2017 @ 04:02 PM
    Location
    Jackson Hole, Wyoming
    Posts
    28,278
    Status
    Offline
    Thanks
    1,117
    Thanked 3,132 Times in 2,546 Posts


    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    75
    Quote Originally Posted by ZahZoo View Post
    Yep... imagine the stampede that will occur in February/March 2018... when all these snowflakes flock to their therapists because they can't cope with their net take-home pay increasing due to the tax cuts. Don't overlook the horror when job growth explodes and employers start raising wages. It'll be dark times, indeed...
    Gee. You actually sound like someone who is productive instead of someone who spends all day everyday complaining about life on social media and website forums.

  42. 2 users say thank you to Nitro Express for this KICKASS post:

    Von Halen (12-16-2017),ZahZoo (12-16-2017)


  43. #38
    CoVfEfe!!
    SUPER MODERATOR

    Nickdfresh's Avatar
    Member No
    8719
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Last Online
    Today @ 02:08 PM
    Location
    Buffalo, NY
    Age
    47
    Posts
    45,148
    Status
    Online
    Thanks
    2,573
    Thanked 3,964 Times in 2,959 Posts


    Rep Power
    100
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Express View Post
    Gee. You actually sound like someone who is productive instead of someone who spends all day everyday complaining about life on social media and website forums.
    Yeah, I'm sure he is. But he lives in a Red State, that takes welfare from the vastly more productive Blue States, that will lose out in this bill. If you have money in a Blue State, you get fucked and simply your money is being transferred to an entrepreneur in a Red State...

    What, are you all cocky now that you've defeated the Trilateral Commission with help of the great White Nationalist, Steve Bannon?
    Last edited by Nickdfresh; Today at 12:17 PM.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 2 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-08-2017, 04:54 PM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-05-2017, 06:18 PM
  3. "Pastors" in need of a serious ass whooping, and a modern day Robin Hood.
    By Unchainme in forum Max's Non VH/DLR Related Stuff
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-09-2013, 01:21 AM
  4. Johnny to play Hungary's 'Robin Hood'
    By Matt White in forum Max's Non VH/DLR Related Stuff
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-04-2006, 07:29 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •