Trump Displays Pure Stupidity On Climate Change

[Nitro Express]

I just don't give much weight to worries about Florida sinking under the Gulf/Atlantic... Our landmasses are not static. The crust of the Earth is in constant movement... although it's just inches/millimeters per decade. There are parts of the central continental US that were at one time a sea floor.

I'm mostly convinced a lot of this effort around global climate change are fueled more by our imaginations and really poor sense of the time coupled with pure arrogance that we are smart enough and/or powerful enough to effect planetary conditions. Not to say we know nothing... just saying we don't know enough about all the variables to truly get any of this correct...

I'm also very skeptical when very rich, connected people like Al Gore and David de Rothschild use panic to hard sell something. They want to tax carbon the most common element on planet earth (you know this if you took a elementary chemistry class in school) and the scientific studies are all coming out of the same geopolitical area where such people have monetary influence over the institutions that do the studies. For some reason people think scientists are above being bribed or being strong armed or even honey trapped. If you look back at Al Gore's the world is going to end speeches a few years ago nothing he said would happen has happened. They had to change the slogan from global warming to climate change. The climate and the earth are in a constant cycle of change but it's a slow cycle and is there anything we are going to do about it? I think we have become arrogant to the point we think we can play God and we have more control over the planet than we actually do. I also live 6300 feet above sea level. The sea rising isn't exactly a problem for me. The day I see Donald Trump's ocean front estate in Palm Beach with water and turtles in the living room is the day I will be convinced all this ocean level rising concern is legitimate.

[Nitro Express]

Volcanoes are natural. Oil refineries are not. I can't do a damn thing to stop Mt. St Helens (or any of the other sleeping giants in the Cascade range) but I damn well can stop pipelines from going through Cascadia, or trains with coal pollution from using this area as a path to China.

Speaking of China, they may have created a shitload of pollution in a relatively short time period, but at least they have seen the reality of it, and are now building green infrastructure where ever they can. Ironically, it's with all the money they now have because the BCE and corporatist fake "democrats" have outsourced all the jobs over there.

All of that money could have been building green infrastructure here. Along with the money wasted on PNAC wars, which have mostly been about controlling what very little remains of the oil to run the 19th century engnes which should have been extinct by now.

I have a friend who did his dissertation on clean coal technology. Nobody talks about burning all the low sulfur grade coal we have here using technology that has clean emissions. In fact The Department of Energy was going to build a prototype plant at their national lab in Idaho but lawsuits shut the project down. I'm very skeptical when such alternatives aren't looked into and fear and panic are used to brainwash the public on thinking anything that burns coal is going to end life as we know it.

I think a future eyesore is when all these windmills we have put up become too expensive to justify maintaining. We are going to have dead windmills all over the landscape. Every time I drive by a big wind farm I shake my head.

[ZahZoo]

This discussion reminds me of a lesson a 90 year old guy offered me and a good friend back in the 80's...

My buddy owned 35 acres of land up in the middle of no where, about 15 miles from Cripple Creek, CO in the Rockies. I had spent the summer helping him clear a road and camp site he parked an old, used camping trailer on to vacation up there. There was a beautiful ridge line with a bunch of pines and aspen trees where we built the camp.

Several of the pines had mistletoe growing on them... my buddy read up on it and was worried the mistletoe would spread and kill off all those nice pine trees. One weekend we set out to cutting down the worst infected trees... the old guy drives up outta the blue and asks why we're cutting down the trees. My pal explains about his worries with the mistletoe.

The old guy laughs and explains that those type of pinyon pines live about 100-150 years max... and yes mistletoe may cause the tree to die prematurely by a couple of years... but most die from fire or some dumbass cutting them down in their prime for no good reason. We stopped cutting them down and shifted to beer drinking instead... The remaining trees with a few splotches of mistletoe still live majestically up there today 30 years later!!

[Nitro Express]

This discussion reminds me of a lesson a 90 year old guy offered me and a good friend back in the 80's...

My buddy owned 35 acres of land up in the middle of no where, about 15 miles from Cripple Creek, CO in the Rockies. I had spent the summer helping him clear a road and camp site he parked an old, used camping trailer on to vacation up there. There was a beautiful ridge line with a bunch of pines and aspen trees where we built the camp.

Several of the pines had mistletoe growing on them... my buddy read up on it and was worried the mistletoe would spread and kill off all those nice pine trees. One weekend we set out to cutting down the worst infected trees... the old guy drives up outta the blue and asks why we're cutting down the trees. My pal explains about his worries with the mistletoe.

The old guy laughs and explains that those type of pinyon pines live about 100-150 years max... and yes mistletoe may cause the tree to die prematurely by a couple of years... but most die from fire or some dumbass cutting them down in their prime for no good reason. We stopped cutting them down and shifted to beer drinking instead... The remaining trees with a few splotches of mistletoe still live majestically up there today 30 years later!!

Then you read about the area around Chernobyl. Nature has come back faster than anyone expected and the scientists are baffled. Also I have so many relatives that have worked in government labs and universities and they all tell me how political everything is. Everything is affected by funding and of course this skews what the public is told about things. Sometimes the actual science is a well kept secret they don't want the public to know.

[Terry]

I just don't give much weight to worries about Florida sinking under the Gulf/Atlantic... Our landmasses are not static. The crust of the Earth is in constant movement... although it's just inches/millimeters per decade. There are parts of the central continental US that were at one time a sea floor.

I'm mostly convinced a lot of this effort around global climate change are fueled more by our imaginations and really poor sense of the time coupled with pure arrogance that we are smart enough and/or powerful enough to effect planetary conditions. Not to say we know nothing... just saying we don't know enough about all the variables to truly get any of this correct...

I have a general understanding of the basic science behind the global warming theory...you know, a theory that I read about. In other words, I know (like most people) the conventional wisdom of climate change as it has been told to me. I don't know enough about the science from an educational standpoint via my own personal study or experiments to say one way or the other if it is accurate, or the probability that planetary conditions will render life on Earth uninhabitable for humans in my lifetime...or 100 years, or whatever. Or if this climate change is something even reversible assuming we all tomorrow simultaneously stopped engaging in the activities presumed to be changing the climate.

Nobody can say if we have already went beyond the point of return in terms of being able to reverse the effects.

I can't determine the accuracy of global climate change one way or the other. I don't think it's a hoax in that there's some mass cabal of scientists claiming the change is happening when they know for a fact it isn't: doubtless plenty of scientists believe it is happening.

Maybe life on the planet will eventually become uninhabitable for our species as the result of our burning various fuels and creating chemicals that are toxic to humankind. Perhaps that path was followed the moment we started cutting down more trees than were replanted...and when was that? Pre-Industrial Revolution?


If the solution to arresting the change somehow involves going back to steam engines and going backward in technological terms to save our species, I doubt people would be willing to give up things like air conditioning, gas/oil powered modes of transportation and the like. You can't even get people to shut off their cell phones in movie theaters as a courtesy to others, so the idea of a mass ban on modern amenities...we're fucked if that is the solution.

[Nickdfresh]

Then you read about the area around Chernobyl. Nature has come back faster than anyone expected and the scientists are baffled. Also I have so many relatives that have worked in government labs and universities and they all tell me how political everything is. Everything is affected by funding and of course this skews what the public is told about things. Sometimes the actual science is a well kept secret they don't want the public to know.

No one is really "baffled". Maybe you can explain the higher rates of cancer around ex-Manhattan Project sites?

[Kristy]

The sun heats the earth, not the air.

You never did finish high school, did you, asshole?

The sun shines through the atmosphere and warms the planet.

But not the air which is abundant on the "planet." You fucking idiot.

The planet then warms the air.

Wrong but please do on embarrassing yourself.

This is why it's warmest at the surface, and gets colder as altitude increases.

Wrong. Look up the term "thermocline" you stupid F A T fuck.

The atmosphere is only around 0.039% CO2. According to their biased results, it may have increased by 0.004%. That's not enough to make a difference.

citation needed or are you turning into Niki Wiki?

If you are a scientist,

You are not but do go on.

and are being funded by GOVERNMENT studies... and want to CONTINUE to get funded, you give them the results they want.

Huh? As opposed to being funded by the Koch Brothers who skew results to buy politicians

That's why there are so many biased results.

By "bias" you mean "liberal results" right, you fucking F A T moron?

Unfortunately, our world is driven more by politics than it is science.

Wrong again, asshole. The world is driven by violence and greed.

70's - The new ice age. 80's - Acid rain. 90's - Ozone depletion. 2000's - Global warming. Then they had to change it to climate change because global warming was such an obvious lie.

Learn the difference between...oh wait, you never finished high school. You are incapable of learning. GSM/Ice Age/global cooling etc, pointing out it needs more evaporation to cause the big precipitation; cosmic rays get a mention, of course, but I point out they don’t create clouds and that even if they did you need the big evaporation AGW causes to get the moisture in the air to precipitate out later. Then again, what a waste of time - you never finished high school.

That’s 40 years of being completely wrong in the name of fear-mongering for power and money.

40 years? You sure its not in the name of oil companies waiting for Greenland to melt so they can rape the environment there? Jesus fucking Christ, you are one serous fucking idiot.

[Kristy]

Von is dumbass, everybody.

[Kristy]

No, wait a minute. Von is a F A T as F U C K dumbass with homoerotic tendencies for an irrelevant rock star retard/weirdo.

[Kristy]

Hey Von...

[Seshmeister]

I just don't give much weight to worries about Florida sinking under the Gulf/Atlantic... Our landmasses are not static. The crust of the Earth is in constant movement... although it's just inches/millimeters per decade. There are parts of the central continental US that were at one time a sea floor.

I'm mostly convinced a lot of this effort around global climate change are fueled more by our imaginations and really poor sense of the time coupled with pure arrogance that we are smart enough and/or powerful enough to effect planetary conditions. Not to say we know nothing... just saying we don't know enough about all the variables to truly get any of this correct...

What are your qualifications?

The real arrogance in your opinion is that you think that because you don't know any more than can be gleaned from reading a few articles on the internet and a half remembered TV show you saw a few years back that somehow your opinion is as valid as someone who was much smarter than you at school and then has worked their whole life in the field. Him/she and another 50 000 scientists around the world.

I'm sorry but this nonsense particularly from Americans of your generation is what has got the planet in the state it's in. All opinions are not equal. You and I are not qualified to do eye surgery, design a microchip or predict the effects of 7 billion humans shitting up the environment. Your 'opinion' isn't going to change so we just need to hope that young Americans and the rest of the world can limit the damage caused by the Selfish Generation.

[ZahZoo]

What are your qualifications?

The real arrogance in your opinion is that you think that because you don't know any more than can be gleaned from reading a few articles on the internet and a half remembered TV show you saw a few years back that somehow your opinion is as valid as someone who was much smarter than you at school and then has worked their whole life in the field. Him/she and another 50 000 scientists around the world.

I'm sorry but this nonsense particularly from Americans of your generation is what has got the planet in the state it's in. All opinions are not equal. You and I are not qualified to do eye surgery, design a microchip or predict the effects of 7 billion humans shitting up the environment. Your 'opinion' isn't going to change so we just need to hope that young Americans and the rest of the world can limit the damage caused by the Selfish Generation.

My qualifications: I'm smart enough to connect to the net, find this site, register here, find a topic and share my opinion... I'm no climate scientist and did not claim to be. Geez... ya grumpy assed Scotsman!!

You're wrong on one point... I'm not qualified to design a whole microchip, but I am/was qualified to perform basic initialization of RISC based processors in beta form to perform functional verification tests in UNIX kernel processing methodologies. I specialized in internal processor cache management development for IBM's RISC/Power processors in the 90's. Moved on from there to symmetrical multi-processor systems development after that... To tie that crap directly to this pissing match... that technology development led to the advanced climate modeling and research conducted on the "super" computers of the time, which provided climatologists a platform to study all this bullshit.

What the fuck does "Americans of your generation" mean..?

Neither your generation nor mine created this shit... Our parents, nope, grandparents maybe. But the path to industrialization built on fossil fuel usage , specifically oil, started back in the 19th century... coal and wood a couple centuries before that! I suspect you ain't qualified to teach history either, junior...

[Seshmeister]

Damn the microchip thing was a gamble...

[Nitro Express]

I have a general understanding of the basic science behind the global warming theory...you know, a theory that I read about. In other words, I know (like most people) the conventional wisdom of climate change as it has been told to me. I don't know enough about the science from an educational standpoint via my own personal study or experiments to say one way or the other if it is accurate, or the probability that planetary conditions will render life on Earth uninhabitable for humans in my lifetime...or 100 years, or whatever. Or if this climate change is something even reversible assuming we all tomorrow simultaneously stopped engaging in the activities presumed to be changing the climate.

Nobody can say if we have already went beyond the point of return in terms of being able to reverse the effects.

I can't determine the accuracy of global climate change one way or the other. I don't think it's a hoax in that there's some mass cabal of scientists claiming the change is happening when they know for a fact it isn't: doubtless plenty of scientists believe it is happening.

Maybe life on the planet will eventually become uninhabitable for our species as the result of our burning various fuels and creating chemicals that are toxic to humankind. Perhaps that path was followed the moment we started cutting down more trees than were replanted...and when was that? Pre-Industrial Revolution?


If the solution to arresting the change somehow involves going back to steam engines and going backward in technological terms to save our species, I doubt people would be willing to give up things like air conditioning, gas/oil powered modes of transportation and the like. You can't even get people to shut off their cell phones in movie theaters as a courtesy to others, so the idea of a mass ban on modern amenities...we're fucked if that is the solution.

This is the reality in a nutshell. It really doesn't matter what we have read or who we have listened to. What matters is who bribes the politicians the most. It doesn't matter what nature is doing or how we are affecting it. It only matters who has the money and that is going to make policy. Now it may kill us all or it may not. Who knows but the bottom line is little old us at The Roth Army can't do shit about it.

[Nitro Express]

My qualifications: I'm smart enough to connect to the net, find this site, register here, find a topic and share my opinion... I'm no climate scientist and did not claim to be. Geez... ya grumpy assed Scotsman!!

You're wrong on one point... I'm not qualified to design a whole microchip, but I am/was qualified to perform basic initialization of RISC based processors in beta form to perform functional verification tests in UNIX kernel processing methodologies. I specialized in internal processor cache management development for IBM's RISC/Power processors in the 90's. Moved on from there to symmetrical multi-processor systems development after that... To tie that crap directly to this pissing match... that technology development led to the advanced climate modeling and research conducted on the "super" computers of the time, which provided climatologists a platform to study all this bullshit.

What the fuck does "Americans of your generation" mean..?

Neither your generation nor mine created this shit... Our parents, nope, grandparents maybe. But the path to industrialization built on fossil fuel usage , specifically oil, started back in the 19th century... coal and wood a couple centuries before that! I suspect you ain't qualified to teach history either, junior...

Haha! haha! We can't even agree if there is a problem or who is to blame. How did David Lee Roth even lead to this discussion? We aren't fixing shit. So smoke a bowl and rock and roll!