Eat Us And Smile
Cenk For America 2024!!
Justice Democrats
"If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992
Trump gave Korea what it wanted, legitimacy in front of the world, Trump said the people of North Korea loved Kim. I assume he isn't including the 100 000 political opponents he has locked up in concentration camps or shot.
The other thing they wanted was for the US to stop doing military exercises with South Korea which he gave them.
In return Trump got exactly zero for America. They said the same thing about a non nuclear Korean peninsula that they said to Obama and Bush. If Trump had done any homework he would have known this and that the Koreans are including the US in that - they will get rid of all of their missiles if the US gets rid of all of hers.
The art of the deal in action...
Which was disconcerting to me, the chatter of democrats in the runup to the meeting between Trump and Un about why it shouldn't even take place, things along the lines of:
"Un just wants the meeting to have a legitimate place in the world community, and the very act of Trump meeting with him legitimizes him."
"Trump is a terrible deal maker, and this meeting is nothing but a long-range ploy by Un, and Un will trick the United States: this deal won't result in Un behaving the way America wants him to in the end."
Look, I didn't vote for Trump.
I don't like Trump.
However, quite frankly, I'd much have Trump and Un speaking directly face to face with one another and trying to find some common ground. That is infinitely preferable to where we were a year ago, with Un publicly via the press threatening a nuke launch against America and Trump responding via the press with threatening a nuke launch against North Korea. And also infinitely preferable to invading or striking North Korea even strictly using non-nuclear means.
The one thing precious few of these various democratic figures spoke about in the run up to the Trump/Un meeting was how decades of isolation, sanctions and essentially a non-communicative stance spearheaded by America (including at least 2 democratic presidents) directly contributed to the siege mentality of the Kim dynasty, which in no small part led to where North Korea is with its weapons program today. So, what was the alternative to a US President meeting with Un? More of the same as before? Only this time we know the North Koreans are driving hard at making their nuclear weapons operational.
We diddled around with North Korea forever. We could have went in there decades ago if we were THAT concerned with the way the Kim's treated their subjects. We didn't.
You know what? If this first summit eventually results in North Korea denuclearizing/dismantling their weapons program, that will in no small part be because of what Trump did. And even if it turned out Trump was winging it by instinct the whole time with North Korea, he'll deserve the appropriate amount of credit for it should North Korea disarm. And if all that happens, and someone actually gives Trump the Nobel Peace Prize, I'll be fine with that, too. Fuck it. Who cares? Better Trump got the Nobel than we had to bomb North Korea back into the Stone Age (triggering God knows what response from China or Russia).
Scramby eggs and bacon.
Have you considered the alternate perception that Kim and North Korea achieved this so called "legitimacy in front of the world" on their own by detonating nuclear/hydrogen bombs powerful enough to destroy a mountain, plus firing intercontinental missiles over Japan/Guam with potential capability to strike the US mainland...
Those elements on their own dictated a situation where playing some silly game of "we don't want to talk to you" because your not big enough wasn't going to change a damn thing nor alter the progression of threat!
I don't get the significance people are placing on pausing the joint military exercises with South Korea either. The US did not commit to any draw-down or change what so ever in the massive strike capability positioned on and just off the Korean Peninsula. All we agreed to was to suspend practice exercises for the time being. Don't think for a minute that all that hell and fury isn't locked, loaded and just parked in NOKO's backyard waiting to be unleashed if needed...
What has been accomplished so far isn't really much from a tangible perspective... but it holds considerably much more potential of achieving something in the direction of a peaceful solution than existed just a few months ago. I don't think anyone is naive enough to think this deal will quickly result in demilitarization of the peninsula nor that Kim and his goons will just give it all up without some major issues... None of the past attempts/methods succeeded. But there's no reason not to give this a reasonable try...
"If you want to be a monk... you gotta cook a lot of rice...”
In retrospect/looking backward over the last 70 years, it'd be hard to imagine a single, rational person who wouldn't have wished atomic/nuclear weapons hadn't been invented. Just from a basic survival aspect in terms of our species. We had plenty of conventional weapons prior to the advent of atomic/nuclear ones that were more than able to kill one another off without any "efficiency of destructive scale" or other such insanity. If armies want to go to war, let them do it on a battlefield with guns, tanks and rockets and keep civilian populations out of it as much as possible: full out nuclear war (or even a single weapon being detonated) doesn't distinguish between military personnel and civilians.
To be sure, the Trump/Un summit may end up being no more than a mere pause, stalling the inevitable. Perhaps all the Russian/USA nuclear agreements in the end may have turned out to be nothing more than stalling measures if a nuclear exchange ends up taking place.
You know what? I'll take those stalling measures over a nuclear detonation anytime. Even just in terms of North Korea: to be sure, Un treats his people terribly. However, I have no desire to see the peoples of North Korea wiped off the face of the planet, EVEN IF SUCH AN OBJECTIVE CAN BE ACHIEVED WITHOUT ANY REPERCUSSIONS TO THE US. I wouldn't mind seeing Un go and see the North Korean peoples be able to participate in a less restrictive society.
I just don't want to see the detonation of nuclear weapons ever become thought of as normalized or acceptable. I care about general humanity far, far above nationalism, religion or ethnic dominance.
As you say, there is no reason not to give a deal between Trump and Un a reasonable try, even if all it provides in the end is a pause: every day I'm living in a world where nuclear weapons aren't detonated is, far as I'm concerned, a good one.
Ford... did you notice those illegal immigrants are not North Koreans..?
I'm amazed at how much people are inferring out of nothing. Past presidents just bought North Korea off when they threw a tantrum. Nobody bothered to talk to them in the past either. Let's be real here. The Korean tension has been a cash cow for the military industrial complex for a half century. Canceling a military exercise is no big deal and best of all, it saves money. If Kim wants to try and turn North Korea into Singapore fine. Singapore is still a dictatorship but since the dictator understands capitalism it's thrived. Also this is all partisan talk. If a Democrat did the exact same thing they would be a brilliant negotiator and worthy of the Nobel Prize. Since it's a Republican it's all a disaster. The issues don't matter as much as what team you play on. Politics is right there with sports. Everyone has their team they cheer for. Simple as that. Both Democrats and Republicans bitch about the other team and sometimes even throw shit from the stands.
Last edited by Nitro Express; 06-17-2018 at 01:53 PM.
No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!
How much is a 60 year old human collarbone worth at this point?
"We think we have the foot of someone from your grandfathers unit that our government stupidly sent to get pointlessly killed in some shithole in the 1950s."
That's like trading buffalo for shiny beads...
And remains they should have handed over anyways. Really, we needed Drumpf to go over there and legitimize a despotic autocracy he wants to recreate here? Is that what some poor sap who joined up in '48 died for?
I think the despotic autocracy already exists. It's called career politicians, rogue intelligence officers, and corrupt bureaucrats. The type of people who collude with each other to keep the insider's club going. Notice none of them ever go to jail even when there is plenty of evidence to indite them. Notice how they do everything to keep people not in their little club from wining elections. Trump is very far from being a dictator. If he was a lot of people would be hanging and the border would be mined and people trying to get across would be shot. His political opposition would be bullied or killed. I've been to countries ran by real dictators. Believe me. It's far worse than what you pansy asses whine about. As far as the North Korean negotiations go. It's just getting started. You people talk like it's a done deal. Go ahead and whine and bitch. It ain't going to accomplish a damn thing. As far as Russian collusion goes it's getting to be an old fable. Nobody has come up with any evidence of anything. Sounds like a bunch of losers cooking up a reason they lost an election and the way it's going, they are going to lose another one. If Trump was a dictator he would use his executive authority to take care of all that bullshit in the Justice Department and FBI. Many people wonder why he hasn't.
Last edited by Nitro Express; 06-19-2018 at 10:44 AM.
Yeah but if a Democrat did the same thing it would be a great move. Haha! That's the reality of it. This is all partisan bullshit. Political whining and complaining. It's too early in the game to tell where this is all going. The bottom line is none of the political babble in this forum is going to change a damn thing on how the world really runs. So I'm going to do something important. I'm going to see if the garbage cans have been pushed out.
It was a long time ago but he was one of the acts at the fair. I remember him doing some singing and bullshitting between songs. Cracks me up Roth was inspired by him and Jim Dandy. Shit. Roth even dressed up as a faggy cowboy sometimes wearing cowboy boots and a gun belt and holster. Dave was a weird mix of shit.
Well, if Justin Trudeau wants to send me some hot Canadian chicks who hate his goddamned pipelines, I wouldn't object to that either.
Haha! First Laura and now JEB! jump out of the weeds and attack Trump on immigration. This is a no brainer. A secure border cuts into the Bush Dynasty drug profits amongst other things. When was the last time a Bush ever cared about children?
I rode in a stage coach being pulled by a six horse team in Virginia City, Montana. It was being pulled at full gallop. Talk about a dusty, scary, bumpy ride! The coach actually is suspended on big leather straps so it floats around. In theory it's supposed to smooth the ride out.
There are many pathetic socialists at this site that do. Their lives are filled with fear of guns, pro abortion parades, fear of melting icebergs and weather patters beyond their reach of the courts, fear of free speech, fear of legal immigrants, fear of the police, fear of voter registration, fear of Chik-A-Fil, fear of talk radio, fear of commerce, fear of pharmacies, fear of the sun, fear of oil, fear of water, fear of electricity produced by nuke and coal, fear of beauty pageants, fear of good health, fear of the USSR, fear of NoKo, fear of nuns, fear of bakers, fear of photography, fear of money they don't control, fear of the Dow Jones and NASDAQ, fear of the KKK, fear of nazis, fear of the Tea Party, fear of Sarah Palin, fear of Christians, fear of native Americans, fear of bathrooms, fear of traditional marriage, fear of the Winestine and MadeOff, fear of Haliburton, fear of Koch, fear of flags and statues, fear of Israel, fear of a 40hr work week, fear of insurance, and fear of true crime stats.
And that's just a short list.
They're the wrist chomping, hair-on-fire, chicken littles that writhe with worry about illegal alien children and have no problem killing a child before its born.
They have no problem with muslims but fear Mormons and Catholics.
They want diversity that requires everyone has brown skin, brown eyes, and black hair.
They protest the National Anthem but have no problem spending the same nations welfare check and sleeping in the same governments provided housing.
And they absolutely fear the military. Here's why:
(Jacksmar provided video in compilation at 1:08 mark: Madeira Beach.)
Additionally, this is why NoKo fears the USA and Trump/Pence. According to the leftists: These SOB's are just crazy enough to do it. Thanks for helping Trump/Pence get the message out...
A NATION OF COWARDS - Jeffrey R. Snyder
Oh fuck you with the fake 'deep state' 'is just like North Korea' allegory. I'm guessing it's like going into a murder shower at a concentration camp when you pay your taxes to the IR-SS! It's offensive to the several hundred thousand that have been murdered since fatboy came to power. Or the millions since the founding of The "Democratic" Republic of Korea...
Last edited by Nickdfresh; 06-19-2018 at 03:39 PM.
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