2019 Tour

[Nickdfresh]

I mean, if what the band are doing now with Dave is worth that much to you, by all means I hope you get good seats to the next show and enjoy it.

Seriously. It'd be cuntish of me to say "blah blah blah I think the band are washed up I wouldn't pay a nickel to see them now and I hope everyone else who does see them witnesses a shitty show."

I'll certainly never underestimate what the band did from 1974 to 1984. That Van Halen lineup, for me, is right up there with the all time great rock bands far as I'm concerned. Even after Dave left, the subsequent albums - even Van Halen III - had some decent musical ideas sprinkled throughout. The problem after Dave left is Ed got very comfortable with his success and largely decided to coast: a lot of filler tracks were also to be found on those post-Roth records, where they come off as something that Ed fobbed off because he could. Passable rather than exceptional.

I agree with this and it takes me back to a thread I started here a long time ago and was reminded of when reading Monk's book. He basically stated what I thought, that Van Halen was burned out by the constant touring by the end of 1981 and needed a break and some vacations that might temper the constant drug and alcohol use indicative to a young band on the road in their era. But of course "(Oh) Pretty Woman" changed that and Warner pushed for more and yet more constant recording and unbroken touring took place until everything was untenable. Although, perhaps a breakup was inevitable in any case IDK. It does seem that Ed wanted to stand back a bit and slow down but lost any ability to collaborate in this period with the building of 5150 coinciding with Alex Van Halen consolidating his power as the (alcoholic) leader of the band and pushing Roth out...

Of the non-reworked demo stuff on ADKOT, there were also some good ideas. Chinatown was a great track. However, the idea that Ed still has the workings of a great album, or the band still have one great album left in them...I'll believe it when I hear it. Would LOVE to hear it, but won't bet the farm on it actually coming to pass.
.....

The problem is process, as in there isn't any. The six pack featured creative input from nearly everyone and Roth was able to give Eddie much needed feedback on what was good and on what sucked. As Monk stated, despite all his problems with Roth being a "sociopath" narcissist, he "knew what the people wanted" whereas Ed was becoming entranced with less pop and a more artistic approach that brought Fairwarning, perhaps their best (but least commercially successful) album, one that required payola to reach platinum sales. Ed basically turned his back on a winning formula and gradually became the king of his hermit kingdom at 5150. That's why AKOT sort of sucks in my opinion, it was done by phone-in. That's now how real bands work...

[Nickdfresh]

I mean, Ed is certainly free to think and say that his kid is a natural, or a prodigy.

Very few prodigies have gone on in adulthood to live up to that early potential, and I'd agree that nothing I've seen or heard from Wolfgang even brings the word prodigy to mind in the first place. The first word is nepotism.

Ed enjoys playing with his kid. His kid was at least smart enough - and this wasn't rocket science to begin with - to realize that the fanbase wanted Van Halen to tour with Dave again. His kid was also capable enough to play Mike Anthony's bass parts. None of that is prodigious: Wolfgang is in the band because of who he is, rather than because of anything he can do particularly well. And all of that is what it is. What it isn't is a precocious display of musical ability.

Without his last name, Wolfgang onstage with any band other than Van Halen certainly wouldn't make a person think he was destined for anything special.

Airbrush him onto Van Halen I!!!!!!

[Nickdfresh]

I should also mention that perhaps it's a supremely bad idea for any band-member to have an extensive home studio that gives the illusion of control and efficiency as it only seems to remove the pressure to being in a studio for a specified and expensive amount of time...

I'm not sure, but I don't think, say, U2 has its own member-dominate recording studio, IDK. Are there any major bands that only record at a home studio that have lasted?

[Terry]

I agree with this and it takes me back to a thread I started here a long time ago and was reminded of when reading Monk's book. He basically stated what I thought, that Van Halen was burned out by the constant touring by the end of 1981 and needed a break and some vacations that might temper the constant drug and alcohol use indicative to a young band on the road in their era. But of course "(Oh) Pretty Woman" changed that and Warner pushed for more and yet more constant recording and unbroken touring took place until everything was untenable. Although, perhaps a breakup was inevitable in any case IDK. It does seem that Ed wanted to stand back a bit and slow down but lost any ability to collaborate in this period with the building of 5150 coinciding with Alex Van Halen consolidating his power as the (alcoholic) leader of the band and pushing Roth out...



The problem is process, as in there isn't any. The six pack featured creative input from nearly everyone and Roth was able to give Eddie much needed feedback on what was good and on what sucked. As Monk stated, despite all his problems with Roth being a "sociopath" narcissist, he "knew what the people wanted" whereas Ed was becoming entranced with less pop and a more artistic approach that brought Fairwarning, perhaps their best (but least commercially successful) album, one that required payola to reach platinum sales. Ed basically turned his back on a winning formula and gradually became the king of his hermit kingdom at 5150. That's why AKOT sort of sucks in my opinion, it was done by phone-in. That's now how real bands work...

I think even beyond all of that, and it seems simplistic to say (mostly because it is), but Van Halen today are a very different band than they were when those first 6 albums were recorded.

The group just aren't in the same place now that they were back then. They're all basically financially solvent, much older, and the drive to scale the mountain is no longer there. In short, they aren't a band that has to prove anything with each subsequent release to stay on top of the heap. Hell, they don't even have to put out any new music in order to go on tour and sell out arenas.

While being in the position they are in would probably be any aspiring rock musician's dream, it's not always necessarily (in point of fact, rarely) the best position for a band to be from the perspective of a fan who wants to hear the group creating new music that at least smacks of the band actually making a sincere effort vs. phoning it in because they can.

I mean, considering the dreadful state Ed had been in for quite some time and taking into account Roth's last full length solo release (Diamond Dave), I tempered my own expectations for ADKOT. In no small part because when I thought about Van Halen III, the new BOBW tracks and Dave's last solo album, I thought creatively these guys were just...shot.

By those diminished standards/expectations, ADKOT was in spots much better than I thought the band were capable of:

Tattoo - not a fan of this track. Came off as something to be found on one of Roth's lesser solo efforts, and the fact that it was an old reworked demo didn't make it sound any better.

You and Your Blues - not a fan of this track, either: sounded like average fair.

She's The Woman - this should have been the lead off track. lyrics are a bit hokey, but delivered with conviction and the instrumentation sounds much more 'Van Halenish' to me than the first two tracks I mentioned, which sounded a bit generic.

Chinatown - They hit this track right out of the fucking park.

Blood and Fire - interesting reworking of the Ripley instrumental. pointed lyrics celebrating Roth's return. I was a bit bummed that they didn't play this one live.

Bullethead - muscular revamping of an old demo with silly Roth 'zen' lyrics, but at least the attitude reeks of CVH.

As Is - I really enjoyed this new track.

Honeybabysweetiedoll - I liked the main riff and the weirdness/experimental nature of it. Roth's stream of consciousness in the midst of a coke binge lyrics are a bit overbearing (and his attempts to come across as a sex stud circa 1984 in 2011 are more laughable than anything else).

The Trouble With Never - a tune I imagine took the band nearly almost as much time to write as it did to record. Disposable fluff, and I was a bit bummed when they chose to play this track live at the 2012 gig I saw. Literally in one ear and out the other for me as a listener. Also comes across as a non-distinctive tune off of one of Roth's lesser albums.

Outta Space - I like the energy of the performance turned in on this reworked demo. Roth's lyrics here (like on much of the rest of the album) come across like a bunch of pithy bumper sticker slogans he wrote down during his travels and cobbled together, and the lead vocal track sounds like it consisted of 10,000 punched in edits (I can't imagine the band playing the tune live and Roth even attempting to sing it all in one shot).

Stay Frosty - it'd be low hanging fruit to say it is a lesser Ice Cream Man, although disingenuous to not have made the comparison at all. Silly lyrics, and nothing groundbreaking going on, but I kinda like it just the same.

Big River - I quite enjoy what the band did with this old demo here. Dave is belting the tune out with conviction, some of his better lyrics on the album, and great guitar work by Eddie.

Beats Working - Fun reworking of another old demo, although I kind of prefer the lyrics on the old demo version. Enjoyable but not essential.


So, ADKOT has 13 tracks.

4 of them I have little to no use for. So a third of the album is disposable to me.


4 of them I really liked.


5 of them had mixed results.



The thing of it is, though, to have had the band pretty much inactive in the 12 years leading up to it - and Dave was basically just touring during those years as a solo act semi-frequently but not intensively - and let's keep in mind that the band had nearly 4 years between the end of the 2007/2008 tour on the release of ADKOT (PLENTY of time, even with Ed's medical issues)...and add on top of ALL THAT the - what? - probably THOUSANDS of hours of home recordings Ed has made in the last 30 + years...and an uneven album that WASN'T EVEN TOTALLY ALL NEW MATERIAL is the result?

ADKOT, as much as I enjoyed some of it, should have been the tip off that the chances of getting a truly great Van Halen album going forward were slim to none.

[Terry]

I should also mention that perhaps it's a supremely bad idea for any band-member to have an extensive home studio that gives the illusion of control and efficiency as it only seems to remove the pressure to being in a studio for a specified and expensive amount of time...

I'm not sure, but I don't think, say, U2 has its own member-dominate recording studio, IDK. Are there any major bands that only record at a home studio that have lasted?

There's the band having a home recording studio, which facilitates too much wasted time fucking around. Although if I recall correctly ADKOT wasn't recorded totally at 5150, but your point is well taken. It all feeds into the pressure element of it, in that there's no pressure in being in Van Halen anymore. There's no pressure to deliver on a deadline. The band don't even have the pressure of record label expectations anymore. I don't even get the sense that Roth rehearses or spends much time with the band anymore unless there is some specific task at hand.

The conditions that helped create the atmosphere surrounding the recording of the 6 pack are no longer there. These guys are in their mid 60s. The drive is no longer there. They can get away with trotting out the greatest hits every few years and getting paid quite well for doing so. And so they do. At least with ADKOT and the 2012 tour, it felt like the band was attempting to TRY and to MAKE AN EFFORT again. The 2015 tour just felt like a holding pattern taking the path of least resistance. I mean, if it's gonna be an oldies act, get Anthony back and do a well rehearsed oldies set with all the Classic Van Halen members. THAT is what got people excited about the band again in 1996. THAT is what people have been wanting to see and hear.

[ZahZoo]

ADKOT was arranged and demo'ed at 5150 by mostly people with Van Halen as a last name... but the actual album recordings were done at Hensen Studios. If I recall, they chose to use a formal studio as a "neutral ground" in order to get Roth to show up to work, plus Roth had used Hensen before for solo work.

[twonabomber]

Red Schlocker says he has a special announcement Monday morning...maybe he's gonna tell us he has terminal cancer and only weeks to live.

[Terry]

Wouldn't be hard to imagine Hagar's "special announcement" (on a Monday Morning Very Special Episode of Sammy Speaks) being something lame along the same lines of what Ozzy and other similarly aged rock stars have recently announced, where instead of saying "this next tour is absolutely my last tour ever" - a bullshit promo pitch for selling tickets that too many bands have used to dupe too many concertgoers to the point where nobody believes these Last Tour Ever cons anymore - now what dudes like Ozzy say is not that their next tour is their last tour ever, but that after this next tour they're retiring from touring but will still play the odd live shows here and there.

"After this next tour, I'm done with lengthy concert tours, but I'll still play live here and there." Meaning I guess odd gigs at Coachella or other one off music fests where they can get one huge guarantee for one gig.

An equally meaningless con job method to get fans to keep going to shows: hey, man, this is Ozzy's last concert tour ever...he says he won't be touring anymore, just playing a gig here and there after this tour is over! we'd better get tix!!

I mean, how many bands have said they were going out on last/final tours, did said tour, then came back to tour again a few years later? I couldn't say offhand, but I'd tend to guess the number is far greater than those who claimed their next tour was their last and actually retired after it was over. In point of fact, outside of Motley Crue (so far) I can't think of a single act who said "this is the last time" where it actually WAS the last time.

Anyway, Hagar's announcement Monday morning will be something along those lines. Either that, or he's announcing his annual Cabo Wabo Birthday Bash VIP extra special tix package.

[Terry]

ADKOT was arranged and demo'ed at 5150 by mostly people with Van Halen as a last name... but the actual album recordings were done at Hensen Studios. If I recall, they chose to use a formal studio as a "neutral ground" in order to get Roth to show up to work, plus Roth had used Hensen before for solo work.

I think it was also mixed at 5150 if memory serves...I could be wrong, but for some reason I'm remembering when the album came out reading that it was created using both 5150 and an outside studio. That, yes, as you said, much of the actual recording was done at the outside studio (Hensen), but the mixing and finishing touches were done at 5150...or some such shit. Hard to recall now.

Wasn't overly thrilled with how the record sounded strictly from a sonic perspective. When you crank it up (be it on headphones or in a car/home stereo) even after fiddling with the eq levels it all tends to bleed into a mid range slush with little high or low end depth. I was probably a little less impressed with how it was engineered and mixed than the tunes themselves in terms of cranking the thing up. I think Wolfgang was fairly involved in the recording of it as well as choosing which old demos to rework, as well. While I still tend to think that without the kid joining the band Van Halen probably wouldn't have done any of what they did end up doing with Dave, overall the results were average to good at best.

[Nitro Express]

I mean, Ed is certainly free to think and say that his kid is a natural, or a prodigy.

Very few prodigies have gone on in adulthood to live up to that early potential, and I'd agree that nothing I've seen or heard from Wolfgang even brings the word prodigy to mind in the first place. The first word is nepotism.

Ed enjoys playing with his kid. His kid was at least smart enough - and this wasn't rocket science to begin with - to realize that the fanbase wanted Van Halen to tour with Dave again. His kid was also capable enough to play Mike Anthony's bass parts. None of that is prodigious: Wolfgang is in the band because of who he is, rather than because of anything he can do particularly well. And all of that is what it is. What it isn't is a precocious display of musical ability.

Without his last name, Wolfgang onstage with any band other than Van Halen certainly wouldn't make a person think he was destined for anything special.

This is the reality. If you were a classmate of Wolfgang growing up and you went over to his house and he started playing the drums and maybe playing a little guitar you would go cool! Damn. Wolfy is pretty good at that stuff. That's about it. Talent? Sure. In a at home kind of jamming way. He has some musical talent. I'm not denying that but what's there to sell. What's there to WOW! an audience? Nothing. Wolfie is local talent show level and his dad was one of a kind. I hope Valerie and Eddie realize their son is not going to make a living as a music performer. Hopefully they have a decent trust set up for him. Wolfgang has the benefit of being an only child and doesn't have anyone to fight with except maybe his parent's current spouses. Get a good lawyer as insurance Wolf. You dad has lived hard. Chances of him living to an old age aren't very good. I'm amazed he's still alive.

[Nitro Express]

Red Schlocker says he has a special announcement Monday morning...maybe he's gonna tell us he has terminal cancer and only weeks to live.

He's coming out with a new line of liquor. Mezcal with a shot of cum in the bottle. Sammy said he got the idea sucking Mike's dick and then had a shot afterwards and decided they both went together well and why not sell it?

[Terry]

This is the reality. If you were a classmate of Wolfgang growing up and you went over to his house and he started playing the drums and maybe playing a little guitar you would go cool! Damn. Wolfy is pretty good at that stuff. That's about it. Talent? Sure. In a at home kind of jamming way. He has some musical talent. I'm not denying that but what's there to sell. What's there to WOW! an audience? Nothing. Wolfie is local talent show level and his dad was one of a kind. I hope Valerie and Eddie realize their son is not going to make a living as a music performer. Hopefully they have a decent trust set up for him. Wolfgang has the benefit of being an only child and doesn't have anyone to fight with except maybe his parent's current spouses. Get a good lawyer as insurance Wolf. You dad has lived hard. Chances of him living to an old age aren't very good. I'm amazed he's still alive.

Back in the early 1980s, me and three of my classmates all took up guitar at about the same time. Within a couple of years, all four of us had progressed pretty quickly to the point where our other classmates who couldn't play thought we were great. We weren't great, but just average to good in a garage band type of situation, and probably seemed better than we were because comparatively few of our other classmates had taken up the instrument. Like, if you could play the tapping parts of Eruption for your junior high friends in 1982 - which I could - everybody thought you were bitchin'!!

And I thought the lot of us were the shit until I got a little older, went up to The Big City, started going into clubs and seeing kids our age onstage in these clubs just blazing with ability. This was, like, 1987, 1988 and 1989. Some of these club bands were so fucking good, writing great original material, and I was still young enough and gullible enough to think that talent was all it took to "make it, man!" There was this one Big City band...man, I can't remember the name now, but I have clear memories of their lead singer...like, he could out-Tate the real Geoff Tate in terms of his range. Their guitar player came up with great riffs and these flawless solos. Good rhythm section. Memorable original tunes. If you heard them play and saw them play, you'd think there was no way they weren't going to "like, make it BIG, man!" Like every other great Big City Band I saw back then, this band went on to do...nothing.

Wolfgang's level of ability is basically commensurate somewhere between that of my and my buds at the peak of our garage band days and those Big City bands. As you say, he can obviously play the instrument. He has zero stage presence. It's not even an insult to say that he's there because of who his father is: everybody knows it. Ed has said it. He enjoys playing with his kid.

Should Wolfgang form a band of his own and put out his own music (has he already done this? not being sarcastic, just seriously have no idea if there's anything he has done not Van Halen related outside of the Tremonti stuff which wasn't exactly overwhelming), I suppose I'll be interested enough to give it a listen. That type of post-grunge/contemporary hard rock metal style Wolfgang seems to gravitate toward doesn't have much appeal to me even coming from bands who are already doing it, so the idea that Wolfgang will come up with tunes in that mold and be massively successful as a result...are any of the bands that have been doing that stuff for the last several years experiencing massive success?

I mean, even just in terms of his bass playing, nothing I've seen him do would even wow a limited demographic such as other musicians a la a G3 type tour. The kid isn't pushing any boundaries of technical ability on the instrument the way that Billy Sheehan did.

To be fair, there aren't exactly a deluge of new bands formed in the last ten years where one could term them massively successful in commercial terms that I'm aware of, so Wolfgang has an uphill battle in that respect from the get-go considering the genre. In general terms, nobody gives much of a shit about what new rock bands have been doing. Sure, some of these newer rock bands have sizable fanbases, but none of them have broken through to wider audiences the way a Led Zeppelin or Van Halen did. Wolfgang can afford to diddle with side projects like Tremonti or release a solo album that doesn't sell precisely because he has Van Halen money and the Van Halen name: he has a safety net. If his name was Wally Von Hiney and he was forming a new rock band, he'd be starving right alongside the rest of them given the amount of talent and ability he has.

Seems like a nice enough kid considering his upbringing, and people accepted him being added to the lineup at least enough to the point where it doesn't inhibit Van Halen from selling tickets. None of that should be confused with an overabundance of musical talent, though.

[Terry]

He's coming out with a new line of liquor. Mezcal with a shot of cum in the bottle. Sammy said he got the idea sucking Mike's dick and then had a shot afterwards and decided they both went together well and why not sell it?

I can't wait to swill this new blend at Sammy's Fabulous Red Rocker Cabo Birthday Wabo Bash.

I enjoy going to it every year, furiously jacking myself off raw as I gaze into Sammy's eyes while he sings Your Love Is Driving Me Crazy.

I do so because I know that Sammy is singing that song just for me.

[Nitro Express]

I can't wait to swill this new blend at Sammy's Fabulous Red Rocker Cabo Birthday Wabo Bash.

I enjoy going to it every year, furiously jacking myself off raw as I gaze into Sammy's eyes while he sings Your Love Is Driving Me Crazy.

I do so because I know that Sammy is singing that song just for me.

Get a grip on yourself man. Don't get too excited about riding Sammy's hairy ass.

[ZahZoo]

I think it was also mixed at 5150 if memory serves...I could be wrong, but for some reason I'm remembering when the album came out reading that it was created using both 5150 and an outside studio. That, yes, as you said, much of the actual recording was done at the outside studio (Hensen), but the mixing and finishing touches were done at 5150...or some such shit. Hard to recall now.

Wasn't overly thrilled with how the record sounded strictly from a sonic perspective. When you crank it up (be it on headphones or in a car/home stereo) even after fiddling with the eq levels it all tends to bleed into a mid range slush with little high or low end depth. I was probably a little less impressed with how it was engineered and mixed than the tunes themselves in terms of cranking the thing up. I think Wolfgang was fairly involved in the recording of it as well as choosing which old demos to rework, as well. While I still tend to think that without the kid joining the band Van Halen probably wouldn't have done any of what they did end up doing with Dave, overall the results were average to good at best.

I agree with not enjoying the record from a sonic perspective... the only mix I enjoy is the vinyl version. It's only helped by the limitations of the vinyl itself. But my ears prefer those limitations because the sonic range breathes much more.

Here's a good article on the mixing of ADKOT... the 3rd to last entry details the technical aspects of what they aimed for in the final mix targeting CD's, MP3's and fucking ear buds. SMH... fucking ear buds!! Translating it down to those mediums fucked up the end result immensely... This is where the great Van Halen sound went to die in my professional assessment...

http://www.vhnd.com/2012/07/15/ross-hogarth-discusses-mixing-van-halens-a-different-kind-of-truth/