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Thread: Is Ken Starr a cunt?

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    Is Ken Starr a cunt?

    Saw him trying to sell his book on TV here this week I guess he will have been all over the US doing the same.

    I'm happy to say the BBC interviewer actually did a decent job for once and called him out on the Lewinsky thing.

    The truth of it is that they took a 22 year old girl and held her for a day telling her she was going to get 25 years definitely for perjury unless she admitted adultery. This was a complete lie because no judge or jury would have done that to her in a million years.

    To this day he is still claiming the high ground saying the whole thing was nothing to do with politics and if her life was ruined by it then it's her own fault. Plus of course choosing now to try and maximise his earnings from his book which he mentioned repeatedly.

    Is this still seen in the US as a partisan thing because to me as an outsider more than aware of the failings of the Clintons this guy really comes across as a shitbag?

    Linda Tripps defence of her actions to this day are that Lewinsky was a naive young child who had to be protected and that's why she entrapped her. These people are just horrendous.
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    Well, he spent about $50 million of US taxpayers money investigating what started out as a botched real estate deal from the early 80s and what eventually ended up an alleged controversy about a President getting his dick sucked and playing with cigars.

    And the rumor at the time was that he did all of this because he was certain the next Republican president would reward him with a Supreme Court appointment. Of course the Chimp didn't do so, but he appointed Opie Roberts who was part of his Florida election theft team, so that is arguably worse.

    But I would have to say that Ken Starr qualifies for the Cunt Hall of Fame, if such a thing ever existed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    Saw him trying to sell his book on TV here this week I guess he will have been all over the US doing the same.

    I'm happy to say the BBC interviewer actually did a decent job for once and called him out on the Lewinsky thing.

    The truth of it is that they took a 22 year old girl and held her for a day telling her she was going to get 25 years definitely for perjury unless she admitted adultery. This was a complete lie because no judge or jury would have done that to her in a million years.

    To this day he is still claiming the high ground saying the whole thing was nothing to do with politics and if her life was ruined by it then it's her own fault. Plus of course choosing now to try and maximise his earnings from his book which he mentioned repeatedly.

    Is this still seen in the US as a partisan thing because to me as an outsider more than aware of the failings of the Clintons this guy really comes across as a shitbag?

    Linda Tripps defence of her actions to this day are that Lewinsky was a naive young child who had to be protected and that's why she entrapped her. These people are just horrendous.
    These investigations have more to do with partisan politics than actually carrying out any kind of justice. When they can't nail a political opponent on the original charges it always goes to a sex scandal. The Mueller investigation is very similar.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FORD View Post
    Well, he spent about $50 million of US taxpayers money investigating what started out as a botched real estate deal from the early 80s and what eventually ended up an alleged controversy about a President getting his dick sucked and playing with cigars.

    And the rumor at the time was that he did all of this because he was certain the next Republican president would reward him with a Supreme Court appointment. Of course the Chimp didn't do so, but he appointed Opie Roberts who was part of his Florida election theft team, so that is arguably worse.

    But I would have to say that Ken Starr qualifies for the Cunt Hall of Fame, if such a thing ever existed.
    Well Mueller is spending millions of our dollars on an investigation that started with collusion with the Russians and now has gone towards sex. They couldn't get Bill Clinton on the real estate scam but they did manage to catch him in a perjury trap. "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" didn't send him to prison but he did get disbarred. Clinton still managed to serve two terms in office and had a pretty lucrative post presidential life with his wife going into public office and selling her seat to the highest bidder. I think Bill's biggest punishment is being married to Hillary. Star tried but still couldn't get Bill Clinton out of office and it backfired on Star. He pissed off conservative parents by bringing oral sex and cigars up the poon hole into the public conversation and conservative right wing parents didn't want the tender young ears of the children exposed to such stuff. The Star Report read like Penthouse Forum and Bill Clinton will be remembered for spooging cum all over a intern's dress in the oval office. Nothing else he did as president will be remembered.

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    I don't think the Mueller thing is the same at all.

    As things stand at the moment...


    1) George Papadopoulos, former Trump campaign foreign policy adviser, was arrested in July 2017 and pleaded guilty last October to making false statements to the FBI.

    2) Paul Manafort, Trump’s former campaign chair, was indicted on a total of 25 different counts by Mueller’s team, related mainly to his past work for Ukrainian politicians and his finances. He had two trials scheduled, and the first ended in a conviction on eight counts of financial crimes. To avert the second trial, Manafort struck a plea deal with Mueller in September 2018.

    3) Rick Gates, a former Trump campaign aide and Manafort’s longtime junior business partner, was indicted on similar charges to Manafort. But in February he agreed to a plea deal with Mueller’s team, pleading guilty to just one false statements charge and one conspiracy charge.

    4) Michael Flynn, Trump’s former national security adviser, pleaded guilty last December to making false statements to the FBI.

    5-20) 13 Russian nationals and three Russian companies were indicted on conspiracy charges, with some also being accused of identity theft. The charges related to a Russian propaganda effort designed to interfere with the 2016 campaign. The companies involved are the Internet Research Agency, often described as a “Russian troll farm,” and two other companies that helped finance it. The Russian nationals indicted include 12 of the agency’s employees and its alleged financier, Yevgeny Prigozhin.

    21) Richard Pinedo: This California man pleaded guilty to an identity theft charge in connection with the Russian indictments, and has agreed to cooperate with Mueller.

    22) Alex van der Zwaan: This London lawyer pleaded guilty to making false statements to the FBI about his contacts with Rick Gates and another unnamed person based in Ukraine.

    23) Konstantin Kilimnik: This longtime business associate of Manafort and Gates, who’s currently based in Russia, was charged alongside Manafort with attempting to obstruct justice by tampering with witnesses in Manafort’s pending case this year.

    24-35) 12 Russian GRU officers: These officers of Russia’s military intelligence service were charged with crimes related to the hacking and leaking of leading Democrats’ emails in 2016.

    Finally, there are two other people Mueller initially investigated, but then handed over to others in the Justice Department to handle. Both eventually agreed to plea deals.

    Michael Cohen: Trump’s former lawyer pleaded guilty to 8 counts — tax and bank charges, related to his finances and taxi business, and campaign finance violations, related to hush money payments to women who alleged affairs with Donald Trump.

    Sam Patten: This Republican operative and lobbyist pleaded guilty to not registering as a foreign agent with his work for Ukrainian political bigwigs, and agreed to cooperate with the government.

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    Un, yeah. Distilling the Mueller Investigation down to a silly sex scandal witch-hunt is just nonsense at this point. How many actual convictions have anything to do with sexual misconduct? None? The Cohen thing is more a violation of campaign finance laws, not a perjury trap on trump, who BTW would be a fly on a sticky trap if he were actually questioned by Mueller's team because at the end of the day, he's just stupid...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    Un, yeah. Distilling the Mueller Investigation down to a silly sex scandal witch-hunt is just nonsense at this point. How many actual convictions have anything to do with sexual misconduct? None? The Cohen thing is more a violation of campaign finance laws, not a perjury trap on trump, who BTW would be a fly on a sticky trap if he were actually questioned by Mueller's team because at the end of the day, he's just stupid...
    Yeah but look how far the investigation has drifted from what it originally was. It's just like Kenneth Star trying to get Bill Clinton on something. The investigation should have stopped when they couldn't get Bill on the real estate scandal. The Mueller investigation should have stopped when they couldn't get Trump on colluding with the Russians. They did entrap Bill Clinton for perjury. He was disbarred as a result and couldn't practice law after his presidency. They never could pry Bill from office. He served his two terms with the right wing making all sorts of noise. Trump will be similar. It's all a bunch of partisan nonsense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    Un, yeah. Distilling the Mueller Investigation down to a silly sex scandal witch-hunt is just nonsense at this point. How many actual convictions have anything to do with sexual misconduct? None? The Cohen thing is more a violation of campaign finance laws, not a perjury trap on trump, who BTW would be a fly on a sticky trap if he were actually questioned by Mueller's team because at the end of the day, he's just stupid...
    Not "just" stupid, but also [Trump is] incapable of not lying.

    It's one thing for Trump to have bullshitted his way through the numerous civil suits and civil depositions he has faced over the years. Quite another to be lying, on record, to the Office of the Special Council. That's on the federal level, and explicitly criminal. All the lawyers who have comprised Trump's legal team post-2016 know Trump's default tendency is to lie his way out of any and everything - he just can't help himself in terms of self-control - and Trump isn't even a skilled liar. That's why it is far easier for Trump's legal team to discredit Mueller, use that as the pretext for Trump not answering any questions, and deal with the fallout from Trump not testifying than it is to actually allow Trump to be questioned.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Express View Post
    Yeah but look how far the investigation has drifted from what it originally was. It's just like Kenneth Star trying to get Bill Clinton on something. The investigation should have stopped when they couldn't get Bill on the real estate scandal. The Mueller investigation should have stopped when they couldn't get Trump on colluding with the Russians. They did entrap Bill Clinton for perjury. He was disbarred as a result and couldn't practice law after his presidency. They never could pry Bill from office. He served his two terms with the right wing making all sorts of noise. Trump will be similar. It's all a bunch of partisan nonsense.

    No. It's the complete reverse of the Starr Investigation where the White Water shit turned out to be overblown so it devolved into single hit perjury-trap about a blowjob? where is there anything remotely similar. You want to go down the sex route but both of Trump's 'mistresses' came out against him whereas Monica wasn't looking to go public. In any case, here's a good synopsis of the investigation:

    From BUSINESS INSIDER

    Mueller's investigation bears the hallmark of an organized crime case
    Sonam Sheth

    Robert Mueller has extensive experience prosecuting organized crime and white collar cases from his time as FBI director.

    Paul Manafort's recent plea deal and cooperation agreement with the special counsel Robert Mueller is the latest indication of how the Russia investigation mirrors an organized crime case.
    The hallmark of any prosecutor's approach to an organized crime case is the use of cooperating witnesses to move up the chain.
    "You start low and you ask people: who did you answer to? Who gave you orders? Who did you report to?" said one Justice Department veteran. "That's the only way to get to the top of a criminal organization, and that's exactly what Mueller's doing."
    But there are also a few crucial differences that make the Russia probe similar to a complex white-collar investigation.
    As the special counsel Robert Mueller works his way through the myriad of threads in the Russia investigation, his approach bears more and more similarities to what prosecutors do when they're tackling complex organized crime cases.

    Mueller's recent plea deal and cooperation agreement with Paul Manafort, the former chairman of President Donald Trump's 2016 campaign, is just the latest indication of that.

    The hallmark of any prosecutor's approach to an organized crime case, experts say, is the use of cooperating witnesses.

    Going up the ladder is critical in these types of cases because the organization typically has a hierarchical structure and a clear chain of command. It also usually involves wide-ranging, multi-party criminal activity.

    "The higher you go, the more insulated those people are," said Elie Honig, a former federal prosecutor from the Southern District of New York who successfully prosecuted more than 100 members and associates of the Sicilian Mafia. "So the best way to penetrate that closed inner circle is by flipping people, and flipping them up."

    After investigators get a sense of which players are part of a criminal enterprise, they start by targeting those at the lowest levels.

    "If they don't voluntarily cooperate, you get honest leverage on them to compel their cooperation," said Patrick Cotter, a former federal prosecutor who was part of the team that convicted the Gambino crime family boss John Gotti in the 1990s. "You find their criminal conduct and use that to force them to do what they should have done originally, which is to tell the truth."

    Paul Manafort

    Former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort pleaded guilty this week. Mark Wilson/Getty Images
    Honig said he once nailed a case by flipping someone who was the driver for a more powerful person in the organization.

    "That led us right up the chain," he said. "And you can see that happening in the Russia investigation."

    The first plea deal Mueller's office announced was that of George Papadopoulos, who served as an early foreign policy aide to the Trump campaign. Next, he looped in Michael Flynn, the former national security adviser who admitted to lying to the FBI.

    In February, Rick Gates, the former deputy chairman of the Trump campaign, announced that he would be pleading guilty and cooperating with the special counsel. Gates' cooperation led prosecutors upstream, and his courtroom testimony against Manafort helped them successfully convict his former boss on eight counts of financial fraud last month.

    Likewise, legal scholars say, Manafort's cooperation, as well as that of Trump's former longtime lawyer, Michael Cohen, will likely help Mueller and New York federal prosecutors get information on an even bigger fish.

    "It's a classic strategy used in organized crime," Cotter said. "You start low and you ask people: who did you answer to? Who gave you orders? Who did you report to? That's the only way to get to the top of a criminal organization, and that's exactly what Mueller's doing."

    'When you pull at a thread, you never know what you're going to unravel'

    Michael Cohen and Paul Manafort are the two highest ranking people who have flipped. Associated Press/Craig Ruttle; Associated Press/Alex Brandon; Business Insider
    That said, there are two critical differences between Mueller's approach to the Russia probe and prosecutors' approach to organized crime cases.

    The first is that most criminal enterprises don't have a clear paper trail.

    "Organized crime is particularly dependent on insider witnesses, because everything is kind of hidden and done in the shadows," said Alex Whiting, a former Justice Department lawyer who prosecuted organized crime and corruption cases when he worked at the US attorney's office in Boston.

    "These cases usually aren't paper heavy because there's no email trail or documentation," he added.

    The Russia investigation, by contrast, has often been document-heavy. Prosecutors introduced 400 pieces of evidence at Manafort's first trial in Virginia last month, and they planned to put forward almost three times that amount at his second trial had he not struck a last-minute plea deal.

    Similarly, their charging document against Gates extensively cited his financial records, emails, and communications with other witnesses.

    In that sense, Whiting said, certain aspects of the Russia probe make it more like a white-collar case.

    The other crucial difference is that organized crime cases cases involve activities that clearly cross legal boundaries.

    But Mueller's team is sifting through a mix of legal political activity and potentially illegal activity.

    The prototypical example of that overlay, Whiting said, is Trump himself.

    "The president has the legal authority to fire the FBI director, but is it obstruction if he fired him to hamper an investigation into him?" Whiting said. "Trump has the power to pardon anyone for any federal crime, but is he obstructing justice if he does it to prevent them from testifying? Is collusion a crime?"

    "There's a complexity here that you don't often see with organized crime," he added. "In that respect, it's much more like investigating white-collar crime, because the main questions there are, what was the conduct, and did the conduct cross into illegal territory?"

    The bottom line in a case like the Russia probe, Honig said, is that there's no way to tell where it will ultimately lead.

    "When you pull at a thread, you never know what you're going to unravel."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    Saw him trying to sell his book on TV here this week I guess he will have been all over the US doing the same.

    I'm happy to say the BBC interviewer actually did a decent job for once and called him out on the Lewinsky thing.

    The truth of it is that they took a 22 year old girl and held her for a day telling her she was going to get 25 years definitely for perjury unless she admitted adultery. This was a complete lie because no judge or jury would have done that to her in a million years.

    To this day he is still claiming the high ground saying the whole thing was nothing to do with politics and if her life was ruined by it then it's her own fault. Plus of course choosing now to try and maximise his earnings from his book which he mentioned repeatedly.

    Is this still seen in the US as a partisan thing because to me as an outsider more than aware of the failings of the Clintons this guy really comes across as a shitbag?

    Linda Tripps defence of her actions to this day are that Lewinsky was a naive young child who had to be protected and that's why she entrapped her. These people are just horrendous.
    I'm no fan of Starr's. Certainly not in terms of Starr repeatedly claiming he wasn't spearheading a partisan-fueled investigation against Clinton, where the objective was certainly as much to embarrass the president in any way possible as it was to actually uncover criminal wrongdoing.

    However, the morality of Clinton's affair with Lewinsky to one side (and in terms of age difference and Clinton's position of authority vs. Lewinsky's, Clinton has no personal moral high ground to reach), clearly Clinton got Vernon Jordan to try and land Lewinsky a job in hopes of ensuring her silence. If Clinton had told the truth about Lewinsky in the Jones deposition, then publicly admitted the affair directly afterward, it wouldn't have been smooth sailing, but Clinton probably wouldn't have been impeached. Clinton also wouldn't have to had enlisted the credibility of his staff and associates (and wife) and made them all look like fools for defending him based on him lying to them - and the American public - about the affair. We all might have been spared the intimate details of the physical mechanics of the affair via the Starr Report.

    The truth re: Lewinsky was Clinton's best way out from the get-go. Clinton opted to lie, lie and then lie some more. In terms of the amount of detail that came out and the impeachment proceedings, Clinton could have short-circuited all of that by simply telling the truth. However, Bill Clinton was a longtime skillful bullshitter, and thought he could bullshit his way out of it. Even through his grand jury testimony, it was clear Clinton knew he was lying about Lewinsky when he claimed he wasn't in the Jones deposition. He only eventually told some of the truth because he had run out of options.

    Sure, by the time late 1997 rolled around, the Starr investigation was out of gas in terms of the Whitewater angle. And Filegate. And Troopergate. And Vince Foster. And Travelgate. Only by joining his efforts with the Jones case did Starr manage to not totally strike out. And I never believed Paula Jones. I believed Kathleen Willey. I - sadly - believed Juanita Broderick. I believed Lewinsky. I believed Flowers. Paula Jones just went along for the ride: she was a willing participant in terms of Clinton's advances. Clinton eventually discarded Jones, and she got her revenge. I never bought her bullshit about being outraged that she had been named - first name only, if I recall correctly - in that American Spectator Troopergate story, and therefore Clinton was the cause of her public shame. Had she remained silent, nobody would have cared. Instead, she opted to make a multi-year public spectacle of herself over what I believe was a consensual encounter between her and Clinton.

    None of which exonerates Linda Tripp. Or Starr and his investigative team who threatened Lewinsky with jail when she was alone in that hotel room with them...uncontrollably crying and without legal council to advise her. That's what it came down to in the end for the Starr investigation. They were so desperate to get something - ANYthing - on Clinton, and hadn't been able to. So they bullied a young woman.

    Starr can cling to the same rationale he always has, but neither Starr nor Clinton are heroes. So, I'd say if Starr qualifies for the Cunt Hall Of Fame, considering the way Clinton treated Lewinsky (entirely receptive on his part in terms of the sex, asked her to lie about it, abandoned her, denied the relationship and allowed his surrogates to begin to portray her as a sexually obsessed psycho while he was making his finger-wagging denials), maybe Bill can be admitted to that Hall Of Fame as well.

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    Ah. Star and Mueller both are assholes. Both led witch hunts that turned out to be jokes. Clinton stayed in office. Trump will stay in office. Some people enjoy the resulting soap opera these type of investigations create. That's about the only thing productive that comes from wasting millions of the taxpayers dollars. Entertainment.

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    Convicting Manafort isn't a waste of taxpayers dollars.

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    Yeah, the dirt on Manafort runs deep. He's even tied to the BCE filth who stole the 2004 election in Ohio. (including the guy who was "rewarded" for his efforts with the Poppy Bush "small plane crash" special)

    https://readersupportednews.org/opin...-2004-election

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Express View Post
    Ah. Star and Mueller both are assholes. Both led witch hunts that turned out to be jokes. Clinton stayed in office. Trump will stay in office. Some people enjoy the resulting soap opera these type of investigations create. That's about the only thing productive that comes from wasting millions of the taxpayers dollars. Entertainment.
    That's complete bullshit. Nobody accused Clinton of committing high treason for personal gain. Mueller's instigation has revealed what are pretty clear Russian intelligence contacts within Drumpf's campaign. You can debate how much Trump had to do with this or whether or not he's being meaningfully controlled by Russian oligarchs, but simplistically distilling it down to "it's all the same" is just pedantic trolling at this point...

    Manafort is a complete cunt that has done lots of consulting and marketing work for vermin dictators that engage with lawless murder and theft, and made a pretty good paycheck from it. That alone means that he's getting off easy...

    As far back as 1992, Manafort was mentioned in human rights reporting as a member of Washington, DC's "Torturers' Lobby". He didn't come out of a cunt vacuum over night and get a blowjob, leading to his indictment...
    Last edited by Nickdfresh; 09-17-2018 at 05:35 PM.

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    Thom Hartmann interviews the cunt himself


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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Express View Post
    They couldn't get Bill Clinton on the real estate scam but they did manage to catch him in a perjury trap. "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" didn't send him to prison but he did get disbarred.
    How times have changed if lying about a enthusiastic consensual blow job under oath used to get you disbarred but now it's ok to lie about an attempted rape of a minor and become a supreme court justice?

    I'm not saying Kavanaugh did it, I'm talking about the reaction of many Republican politicians to the accusation.
    Last edited by Seshmeister; 09-18-2018 at 07:07 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    Convicting Manafort isn't a waste of taxpayers dollars.
    To clarify apart from the fact Manafort is a horrendous character, the FBI seized $40 million from him so the investigation more than paid for itself.

    It's funny that the FBI now owns an apartment in Trump Tower.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    How times have changed if lying about a enthusiastic consensual blow job under oath used to get you disbarred but now it's ok to lie about an attempted rape of a minor and become a supreme court justice?

    I'm not saying Kavanaugh did it, I'm talking about the reaction of many Republican politicians to the accusation.
    Apparently one of Trump's dumb fucking sons thinks it's funny posting meme's about it...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    To clarify apart from the fact Manafort is a horrendous character, the FBI seized $40 million from him so the investigation more than paid for itself.

    It's funny that the FBI now owns an apartment in Trump Tower.
    I saw a joke that Mueller should move in

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