More VH talk from Eddie Trunk

[Terry]

But, but I like when singers don`t go note for note and that's probably what peeps like about Van Halen even evh is not flawless live...Roth on!

I do as well...for example, I thought Roth had a great approach to the material in 2007/2008: he wasn't singing exactly like the original recordings - and in terms of aspects like the screams, clearly he couldn't for more than a certain amount of times per show without wrecking what was left of his voice - but he was putting out the best attempt he could to sing as many of the verses as he could accurately and (more important) in key.

From 2012 onward, he has had some serious problems just staying in key. And it is this odd approach he has been taking to his live vocals for the last two tours, an approach that has dated back as far as the early days of his solo career but was one that was used sparingly so it wasn't quite as noticeable, where he at times is actually overexerting himself and yelling rather than just singing and he is applying this strained yelp...er...'technique' to songs that don't benefit from it.

That feeds into this overall effect of the lead vocals being badly off-key. Much more so than in the CVH days. It just sounds bad. Plain and simple.

[Terry]

It pains me to say this but I agree with Trunk on some of this.

Everyone else is miming live to a lesser or greater degree and people have got used to that.

Also of course on the first reunion tour some backing vocals were piped in but they weren't Michael Anthony they were some session guy.

I don't listen to the live Japan album but why would anyone ever? Think about it. If Dave had performed a flawless live performance or if they did the usual thing everyone else does and fixed it who cares either way? Why would you want to listen to a live album of songs from the late 70s/ early 80s when you can just go and listen to recordings of them done then live or in the studio?

People have every right to complain about a sub par live experience if they pay their money, go to a gig and come away disappointed.

What you don't get to complain about how fucking annoyed you are at not enjoying a performance you watched on YouTube recorded on a phone or hating the Japan thing when anyone could check it out before purchasing.

This is the Led Zepplin thing writ large. A fucking bunch of people complaining that a band won't reform and play, they reform and play and people say it isn't as good as it was, they then agree and don't play and everyone complains that they can't go and see them.

The whole thing is ridiculous.

I'm sick of people whining about being forced to buy things that no one is forcing them to buy. If you don't like the product don't pay for it.

As an aside this ongoing fucking thing about Roth never being able to sing is stupid. Roth at his worst in any era pisses all over just about any Ozzy live singing from 1977 onwards so 40 years now? How does he get a free pass?

I agree with Trunk in that clearly the Tokyo Dome album obviously wasn't the net result of a bunch of post-performance studio overdubbing. As Trunk said, it was a one-shot, warts-and-all performance. I listened to it once, and...yeah, it sounded rough. Probably rougher to people who hadn't seen the band on the 2012 tour and hadn't experienced Roth singing that poorly. With the show I saw in 2012, Roth was having what I thought at the time was an off-night. I had checked out the 2012 tour rehearsal stuff posted on youtube prior to the gig I saw - as well as the Café Wha? gig - and Roth sounded okay. About as good as one could have expected, anyway. When I saw them live about 4 months into the tour, he wasn't sounding good. That strained yelp was front and center to the point where it was actually taking away from my enjoyment of the show. As I said, I figured that was an off night.

The Tokyo Dome album was more of the same in terms of the poor vocals. Then I saw the televised stuff prior to the 2015 tour, youtubed the first few 2015 gigs prior to tickets for my area going on sale, and it became clear that this is what Dave sounds like now. As to if he could sound better with a different approach, I don't know. But, as you said, I no longer liked the product, so I'm not paying for it. Not something I feel great about, either. I'd always basically enjoyed what Roth brought to his performances, and I'm not gleeful that to my ears he sounds bad to the point where it is an unpleasant experience to go to a show.

Far as Zep goes, was too young to see them when they actually were Zeppelin. Wasn't exactly overwhelmed with what they did at Live Aid or the 1988 Atlantic thing. I've enjoyed Plant's solo career. I liked the Unledded thing, as well as the approach Plant and Page took to their mid 1990s touring. Didn't much care for their Walking Into Clarksdale album. Thought the O2 show was a pleasant one-off reunion. Had some good stuff there, but at points it was also - despite obviously being a gig that the band took a serious approach to in terms of preparation and rehearsal - a reminder that it ISN'T the mid 1970s anymore: that point in time is lost forever. I'm content with 'Led Zeppelin' - or what it is left of it, anyway - not reuniting for a stadium tour. It doesn't really matter much to me if they do, either, truth be told. Again, as you say, it's not compulsory that I go see them. Or Van Halen. Or Ozzy.

[Vinnie Velvet]

Ok - I have to comment on all the drivel that is thrown towards Dave as far as his vocals is concerned.

I think its totally unfair while his contemporaries continue to get praise while they sound even worse.

Ozzy for instance. He's packing arenas on his latest farewell tour but from what I've heard on youtube (and that's not a good barometer) his vocals have been horrendous. Add to the fact he cant sing many of his songs anymore - you only get to hear Zakk jam those in his solo spot (Miracle Man for example). Even the songs he does sing - musically they've been tuned down to accommodate his vocals which to me sounds like crap.

Paul Stanley. The latest KISS farewell tour hasn't started yet but its selling well. Despite the fact that Stanley has to use pre-recorded vocals on stage now because his voice is so shot. Yup. Stan will be lip synching.

Perhaps Dave isn't doing himself any favours by continuing to smoke. Who knows.
I don't expect him to belt out On Fire at his age now. Or any of those squeals and screams. He hasn't been able to do them for some time now anyway.

[Nickdfresh]

I agree with most of Truck's assessments as well. But the jabs at Dave's "always lacking vocal chops" thing is bullshit. Is he old and not able to sing anymore? yeah probably. But I have to believe that part of that was possibly that he was sick for much of the tour and his decline might be a bit exaggerated, and I too see "the warts and all" thing as integrity rather than the nauseating lip-sync-athons and piped-in-music going on with the likes of Aeroshit...

But to say he didn't have vocal chops back in the day is complete shit. I was listening to some 84' Cow Palace last night, and other than Dave sometimes ignoring lyrics and maybe being a bit winded from running around like fat blindfolded kid swinging at a pinata, he sang just fine and pretty much sounded like 1984. He was trashed at the US Fest to the point of Noel Monk being despondent about it, so that is hardly a prototypical Dave performance. So you can't judge him on that and there are some boots where Dave sang overall well on The Hide Your Sheep Tour...

[silverfish]

I agree with most of Truck's assessments as well. But the jabs at Dave's "always lacking vocal chops" thing is bullshit. ... He was trashed at the US Fest to the point of Noel Monk being despondent about it, so that is hardly a prototypical Dave performance.

It seems to me it's an either/or situation - either you go to a concert and wanna hear the live
songs sound just like the LPs or you are there for the experience and allow for a little "artistic
license". I'm in the latter category - you wanna hear the LPs, stay at home. You want a little
ad lib - come to the show. And let's face it - some songs lend themselves to jiggering
while others are probably easier played "straight".

I went to the 1988 Monsters of Rock show. My recollection is that the Scorpions set sounded
exactly like World Wide Live. Very tight and not a single bum note. Coulda been a recording
and I wouldn't have known. Not a knock - just decent musicians doing their job and c'mon,
who wants to hear Klaus' in German accent that he "Vorgot the Vucking Verds!".

The US Fest is a bogus benchmark and Trunk knows it. Seems to me it was a 1.5 mil (or
whatever) payday and a celebration of same. Pick any other live performance and use that
as your baseline, jerk.

[Vinnie Velvet]

It seems to me it's an either/or situation - either you go to a concert and wanna hear the live
songs sound just like the LPs or you are there for the experience and allow for a little "artistic
license". I'm in the latter category - you wanna hear the LPs, stay at home. You want a little
ad lib - come to the show. And let's face it - some songs lend themselves to jiggering
while others are probably easier played "straight".

I went to the 1988 Monsters of Rock show. My recollection is that the Scorpions set sounded
exactly like World Wide Live. Very tight and not a single bum note. Coulda been a recording
and I wouldn't have known. Not a knock - just decent musicians doing their job and c'mon,
who wants to hear Klaus' in German accent that he "Vorgot the Vucking Verds!".

The US Fest is a bogus benchmark and Trunk knows it. Seems to me it was a 1.5 mil (or
whatever) payday and a celebration of same. Pick any other live performance and use that
as your baseline, jerk.

Exactly.

There seems to be a thing these days of wanting to hear songs exactly how they sound on record. I never liked that. I always loved live versions of songs vs their studio versions. Cause it was LIVE.

And CVH was better than anyone in delivering a great performance that was fun and spontaneous. Unlike the crap that was Van Hagar.

[Terry]

Ok - I have to comment on all the drivel that is thrown towards Dave as far as his vocals is concerned.

I think its totally unfair while his contemporaries continue to get praise while they sound even worse.

Ozzy for instance. He's packing arenas on his latest farewell tour but from what I've heard on youtube (and that's not a good barometer) his vocals have been horrendous. Add to the fact he cant sing many of his songs anymore - you only get to hear Zakk jam those in his solo spot (Miracle Man for example). Even the songs he does sing - musically they've been tuned down to accommodate his vocals which to me sounds like crap.

Paul Stanley. The latest KISS farewell tour hasn't started yet but its selling well. Despite the fact that Stanley has to use pre-recorded vocals on stage now because his voice is so shot. Yup. Stan will be lip synching.

Perhaps Dave isn't doing himself any favours by continuing to smoke. Who knows.
I don't expect him to belt out On Fire at his age now. Or any of those squeals and screams. He hasn't been able to do them for some time now anyway.

I don't expect him to belt out On Fire at his age now, either.

I'll also agree it's unfair to single Roth out when his contemporaries - Ozzy, Paul Stanley - have their own issues.

I'm not expecting him to replicate the CVH studio stuff note for note, either.

I'm all for giving a degree of latitude. Shit, I saw Roth in 1999, 2005 and 2006: he wasn't doing note-perfect versions of the material at any of those gigs.

He was more or less in key at those shows, though. A few bum notes here and there, but overall, listenable.

2008? Dave knocked it out of the park. He WAS the highlight of that first VH reunion tour, far as I'm concerned.

He has become unlistenable live to my ears over the last two tours, unlistenable in that more often than not he sounds...bad. Just plain bad.

I mean, again, it's a shame from where I sit that this is the case for me, but I can't go listen to him sing and pretend it isn't so: it's a visceral thing.

[Terry]

It seems to me it's an either/or situation - either you go to a concert and wanna hear the live
songs sound just like the LPs or you are there for the experience and allow for a little "artistic
license". I'm in the latter category - you wanna hear the LPs, stay at home. You want a little
ad lib - come to the show. And let's face it - some songs lend themselves to jiggering
while others are probably easier played "straight".

I went to the 1988 Monsters of Rock show. My recollection is that the Scorpions set sounded
exactly like World Wide Live. Very tight and not a single bum note. Coulda been a recording
and I wouldn't have known. Not a knock - just decent musicians doing their job and c'mon,
who wants to hear Klaus' in German accent that he "Vorgot the Vucking Verds!".

The US Fest is a bogus benchmark and Trunk knows it. Seems to me it was a 1.5 mil (or
whatever) payday and a celebration of same. Pick any other live performance and use that
as your baseline, jerk.

To say that the US Fest was somehow representative of how Roth sang live with Van Halen back in the day IS bullshit, and I agree Trunk probably does (or should) know it.

I saw the Scorpions on the Love At First Sting tour (with Bon Jovi opening up, no less - STILL amazing to me to this DAY when thinking of that opening slot performance that Bon Jovi has endured), and even at the time I thought they were perhaps overly rehearsed...almost machine-like. Which isn't to say they put on a bad show, but when I heard/saw the World Wide Live stuff a year or so later after the gig, it was virtually exactly the same as the gig I saw.

[big fatty]

Also of course on the first reunion tour some backing vocals were piped in but they weren't Michael Anthony they were some session guy

Ok this has captured my attention & I require some detailed information.

I've noticed a couple folks at VH Links mentioning Wolf recieving some sort of help....but of course....very vague on details....just saying Wolf had help....

SO- lets hear it.....what do you have to say about it....

Keep in mind Wolf Ed & Al rehearsed for several months in 2006 BEFORE David even enterered back into the equation...

Did Wolf have help in the 5150 studio while jamming with Ed & Al....which is captured on Andrew Bennets film & audio....

So I'll answer to save you the hassle....

NO.....

So tell me exactly what is this " piped in " horseshit of which you speak????

I'm curious....dubious to say the least....but I'm open minded enough to admit I don't know otherwise for certain....

But will say I strongly suspect all you guys are completely full of shit....with absolutly no proof or valid justification of your false claims....

And when I say " all you guys", I'm referring to the internet usernames I recognize seeing very recently here now with your post & over at VH Links in a different thread....

The names are You Seshmiester here now in this post I just clicked...

& Zahhoo who I saw his post at VH Links....

& the VH Links owner Brett also said he strongly felt Wolf had " help"...but was very vague in explanation.....

And another "poster" that posts about 100 times a week about VH & Mike....but I dont want to mention him by name his opinion is not as important as yours Shesmeister & Brett....

So what the fuck is it you think you know???

Did you hear something from a crew member???

Spill the beens cough up the skinny otherwise the shit your peddling is just pansey ass gossip shit....

Your not a pansey ass gossip punk are you????

[big fatty]

And where's that Von Halen fruitcup???

Whats up with his article thats still on the front page about VH hooking up with Hagar in 2017???

Funny how none of you flakes ever actually explain yourselfs....just leave your fake bullshit lies posted for all to see long after its clearly seen as the bullshit that it is.

Does Von Halen flip burgers at Krystal Burger?

[Terry]

I can say from the 2008 show I saw that the backing vocals were a LITTLE too flawless: they didn't sound as good 4 years later. Far too full at times, particularly when Ed would miss a line of a chorus, thus at those points you only had Wolfgang and Dave doing background vocals yet it still sounded like there were 4 people doing them. And the fullness sounded like it was a higher range voice, which neither Ed or Dave used when it came to background vocals for choruses.

Now, while from all that I don't know for certain backing vocal tracks were piped in on the first Roth VH reunion tour, it wouldn't be surprising in the least. Mostly because that type of thing has become all too common over the last 1/4 century with a wide variety of live acts encompassing a wide range of styles. Shit, Motley Crue's Farewell tour, they were using pre-recorded vocals AND pre-recorded rhythm guitar tracks.

It's not like Van Halen is beyond doing that. Not talking CVH, here, but Van Halen circa the last decade: 3/4's of the band aren't exactly spring chickens, and maybe they just need a boost in that department to make it sound good.

[Seshmeister]

I suspect in the later tour they were using vocal effects to double up their live backing vocals. I don’t have any problem with that as a compromise, even my band does if.

Where do you draw the line, you could argue it’s no different from using a guitar effects pedal?

[Vinnie Velvet]

As an aside this ongoing fucking thing about Roth never being able to sing is stupid. Roth at his worst in any era pisses all over just about any Ozzy live singing from 1977 onwards so 40 years now? How does he get a free pass?

Exactly.

[FORD]

Hell, I've heard Zeppelin bootlegs from as early as 1973 where Plant's voice is shot to Hell. Funny thing that happens to vocal cords when they age. I've never been a professional singer, but I used to be able to knock out a fairly decent Axl Rose impersonation when I was younger, and a decent amount of alcohol was involved. No chance in Hell of me doing that now.

The only thing that DLR has done wrong in this respect is that he keeps trying to push his voice higher, while still smoking like a chimney and drinking like a fish and being in his 60s. Plant at least finally came to the conclusion that he had to adjust his material to the physical realities of his vocal cords as an older man. I'm guessing a lot of his objection to any further Zeppelin reunions is that he knows he sounds ridiculous trying to reproduce the high notes that he made when he was 19 years old. Until medical science makes vocal cord transplants possible, that's probably the most reasonable solution available.

[Hardrock69]

If the original 4 toured, it would be interesting to see the financials post-tour.

And I don't go to hear Dave sing. If it is singing I want, I will go listen to someone
who can belt it out. Like the dude in Rival Sons. Or Tim Owens or some shit.

I go to see Dave the Entertainer.

I would love to see the original 4 JUST BECAUSE.

I don't need no valid muffakking reason.

But we will see. We can safely assume with Uncle Dave's patter in the interviews that the band might possibly be thinking of dreaming about the possibility of playing Yankee Stadium at some untold date months, years, or centuries in the future.

We will see what happens, won't we?