More VH talk from Eddie Trunk

[DavidLeeNatra]

The has never been anything on the Hagar front since the last tour in 2004.

Thank the almighty God!

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[Terry]

Trunk is a fucking idiot.



This is not fucking Agatha Christie. It's not a big fucking mystery.

Read his book which he didn't need to write since he had plenty of cash.



Not only was it a betrayal and a hatchet job on the Van Halen's, there were a ton of lies in there too.

Why the fuck would the Van Halen's ever go back to Hagar after that when they don't need to. Would you?

Well, Sammy just had to let everybody know that the 2004 tour wasn't his fault in terms of the shitty result, and that [Hagar] couldn't back out of the tour once it started despite knowing how fucked up Eddie was because he would have been on the hook for substantial financial penalties.

I'll buy what Sammy had to say about the 2004 tour in terms of it being truthful: it was no secret that Eddie was in dreadful shape.

Probably wasn't the smartest move for Hagar in 2008 to write the book - even, again, assuming 2004 was all Eddie's fault - if he thought he would like to tour with the band again.

If I do the math, Hagar has spent a total of one year with the band since 1996. And it was a shitty year. By Hagar's account, he hasn't directly spoken to the Van Halens in 15 years. Doesn't sound like the Van Halens think there is some great friendship with Hagar that only another tour could repair, considering the frequency of contact they've had with the guy since 1996.

And I think you're right in that the Van Halens don't need the money. They can always do another tour with Roth to fill the coffers.

Having said all of that, should another Van Hagar tour be announced tomorrow, said news wouldn't shock me in the least.

[Terry]

Agreed.

Sammy will forever be a footnote in VH history. He has to be.

Van Hagar was a thing that unfortunately happened and unfortunately went for as long as it did. They have no interest going back with him and never will.

The few Van Hagar lovers out there like Trunk won't stop.

Van HALEN was and will always be Dave's band as much as the Van Halen's. Eddie knows this.

Think just in terms of the amount of commercial success Van Halen had with Hagar - only half the amount of records sold as with Roth, but even so still an appreciable amount of records (around 20 million, if memory serves) sold - that Hagar will be regarded as more than a footnote in VH history.

I mean, Gary Cherone certainly will be regarded as a footnote, to be sure. Hagar's tenure was far more successful.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not a fan of Hagar. Also, one can argue that Van Hagar's initial commercial success re: 5150 owed as much to what CVH had spent the previous decade building as it did the musical output Hagar and the band produced (a bit telling that each subsequent Van Hagar record sold a little less than the one before it, regardless of how many #1 charting records and top 40 singles Van Hagar had vs. CVH...and this trend was established well before a "grunge effect" could have had any discernable impact). Even so, putting my own lukewarm feelings about Hagar/Van Hagar to one side, the fact of the matter is Sam Halen had an appreciable level of commercial success...more than enough success to elevate Hagar beyond being a footnote to the general public.

As to Trunk, it's hard for me to believe he actually prefers what Hagar did with Van Halen over Roth, even though he says he does. It was just plain weird when Trunk said Van Halen's first 4 albums were their best, yet he still thought the music got better when Hagar joined (?) : like, what the fuck does that even mean?

It was weird in that when CVH was active, probably 50% or better of what the band was doing that attracted me was concentrated solely on Eddie's guitar playing. That wasn't to say I thought the rest of the band wasn't shit hot at the time. When Roth left in 1985, I was bummed, but didn't automatically assume that Van Halen wouldn't be able to continue making great music without Roth. By the time 1985 rolled around, well...I wasn't thrilled with the Crazy From The Heat EP: the promo videos were great, but the musical content itself...not what I wanted to hear Dave doing. If anything, at the time of the split, I assumed that Van Halen would continue to kick ass and Dave would continue on in the Crazy From The Heat style musically. The odd part was it took Roth leaving the band and the release of 5150 / EEAS for me to appreciate more than I had what Roth had brought to Van Halen, and to realize more fully what Roth's departure meant.

Van Halen WAS Dave's band as much as the Van Halen's. Eddie may have chosen to forget this in the wake of the massive amount of acclaim he was receiving in the early 1980s due to his guitar playing and the cavalcade of mainstream music magazine critics who were dismissive of Roth to the point where they claimed Roth was an impediment to Eddie's spectacular playing...who knows, Eddie may have actually bought into that stuff. I think Eddie thought back then that Dave pulled his own weight creatively, but that without having hooked up with a guitar player like Eddie, Roth would have been nothing. I think Eddie still believes this. I think Eddie believes deep down that he and his brother did Dave a favor 12 years ago getting him back in the band, rather than admitting that by the time 2007 rolled around Dave and the Van Halens needed each other just as much if they wanted to continue playing packed arenas.

[Terry]

yes exactly you are right and everyone knows that the 2004 tour was not his fault but because of the catastrophic result

The thing that gets me about Hagar's 2003/2004 reunion rationalizations is laid out by Hagar in his own book, though.

Hagar claims that Eddie Van Halen was in clearly visible bad shape when he first went to meet him in late 2003/early 2004. Assumedly before any tour contracts had been signed, I'm guessing. Hagar also describes in detail how befuddled Eddie was throughout the writing/recording process of the new Van Hagar tracks on BOBW during early 2004. Hagar also describes in detail how befuddled Eddie was during the rehearsals for the 2004 tour. All of which paints a picture of Eddie as not being in any type of condition to play at his best.

Hagar never describes the reunion process as a situation of Eddie being relatively sober and competent during the initial meetings, writing/recording and tour rehearsals, then going on to have some sort of relapse just before the tour started. Hagar describes Eddie as having been fucked up from the get-go, and Hagar said he assumed Eddie at some point would get cleaned up enough to go out and play a decent tour.

In the end, to my mind Hagar is just as responsible for not making the judgement call that Eddie wasn't capable of doing any better than he ended up doing in 2004 as far as the end result goes. I mean, considering the condition Eddie was in, I find it simply not believable that Hagar (if he cared about the fans as much as he later claims he did) wouldn't have insisted that Eddie either get demonstrably clean before any tour contracts were signed or Hagar simply wasn't going to go ahead with the tour. However, none of that happened. Hagar went ahead, did the tour, grinned his way through all of it knowing how shitty the performances were, took his money, fucked off into Chickenfoot obscurity, then waited a few years to make a few more bucks off that shitty tour by telling us all how shitty the experience was.

All of which tells me as much about Hagar's character as it does Eddie's: Eddie clearly had his addiction issues running rampant and unaddressed in 2004...what was Hagar's excuse? Hagar claims he didn't need the money in 2004...how much of it did he give back to "the fans" by way of refunds when that whole debacle was over?

[Seshmeister]

In the end, to my mind Hagar is just as responsible for not making the judgement call that Eddie wasn't capable of doing any better than he ended up doing in 2004 as far as the end result goes. I mean, considering the condition Eddie was in, I find it simply not believable that Hagar (if he cared about the fans as much as he later claims he did) wouldn't have insisted that Eddie either get demonstrably clean before any tour contracts were signed or Hagar simply wasn't going to go ahead with the tour. However, none of that happened. Hagar went ahead, did the tour, grinned his way through all of it knowing how shitty the performances were, took his money, fucked off into Chickenfoot obscurity, then waited a few years to make a few more bucks off that shitty tour by telling us all how shitty the experience was.

Exactly.

The only consolation being they were only ripping off money from Van Hagar fans (and Von) ...

[hain23x]

Beating up on Roth again yesterday

https://youtu.be/xqFpteJE0Bo

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[Unchainme]

I think Van Halen is very important to not only rock music but american pop culture as a whole.

It was genre defining, innovative and creative in multiple ways.

Van Hagar feels like it just sort of "existed" from 1986-1995. I think people were still drawn to it because of the work Eddie was still doing but I imagine it wasn't as much of a "show' to go to ala during the Dave years.

I think with Hagar...I don't think he would be all that relevant sans Eddie. I view him more like one would "Foriegner", "Loverboy", "Reo Speedwagon" or "Styx". Groups that were popular for their time but exist in that bizarre pre-MTV/Post-Zeppelin AOR rock bubble.

Hell I went to see the Smashing Pumpkins TWICE this year and their "warm up" playlist was tracks off of "Fair Warning", "Van Halen II", and "Woman and Children First" consistently when I was there.

That's a band that has been critically acclaimed and came out of the Indie/Alt. movement of the 1990's.

[twonabomber]

And now the "Real Music Observer" checks in

[Nickdfresh]

What a fucking tool. I turned it off after the "Love Shack" comment...

[Nitro Express]

Well the glass is either half empty or half full. I just look at it this way. If Sammy Hagar can be successful anyone can. So when you start feeling like a failure just think hey that loser Sammy Hagar found success and if he can anyone can. Haha!

[Nitro Express]

Who cares about Van Halen at this point. The excitement went out the window a long time ago. Also if Michael Anthony does something with Van Halen after they way they screwed him I will have zero respect for him. Because he hangs with Sammy I almost have no respect for him already. Oh well we have been heard all this shit as long as the internet has existed. Roth finally did something with them and I would say what you saw last time was about as good as VH can do these days. Ed isn't going to whip out something new and magical like Mean Street at his age. The last VH album was all old songs reworked.

[Vinnie Velvet]

The thing that gets me about Hagar's 2003/2004 reunion rationalizations is laid out by Hagar in his own book, though.

Hagar claims that Eddie Van Halen was in clearly visible bad shape when he first went to meet him in late 2003/early 2004. Assumedly before any tour contracts had been signed, I'm guessing. Hagar also describes in detail how befuddled Eddie was throughout the writing/recording process of the new Van Hagar tracks on BOBW during early 2004. Hagar also describes in detail how befuddled Eddie was during the rehearsals for the 2004 tour. All of which paints a picture of Eddie as not being in any type of condition to play at his best.

Hagar never describes the reunion process as a situation of Eddie being relatively sober and competent during the initial meetings, writing/recording and tour rehearsals, then going on to have some sort of relapse just before the tour started. Hagar describes Eddie as having been fucked up from the get-go, and Hagar said he assumed Eddie at some point would get cleaned up enough to go out and play a decent tour.

In the end, to my mind Hagar is just as responsible for not making the judgement call that Eddie wasn't capable of doing any better than he ended up doing in 2004 as far as the end result goes. I mean, considering the condition Eddie was in, I find it simply not believable that Hagar (if he cared about the fans as much as he later claims he did) wouldn't have insisted that Eddie either get demonstrably clean before any tour contracts were signed or Hagar simply wasn't going to go ahead with the tour. However, none of that happened. Hagar went ahead, did the tour, grinned his way through all of it knowing how shitty the performances were, took his money, fucked off into Chickenfoot obscurity, then waited a few years to make a few more bucks off that shitty tour by telling us all how shitty the experience was.

All of which tells me as much about Hagar's character as it does Eddie's: Eddie clearly had his addiction issues running rampant and unaddressed in 2004...what was Hagar's excuse? Hagar claims he didn't need the money in 2004...how much of it did he give back to "the fans" by way of refunds when that whole debacle was over?

Hagar is an opportunist.

Always was.

In 1985 he walked into a band that had built an incredible career and he saw $$$$. But they had no producer, manager, tour and production crew and a singer.

They dumped everyone.

Hagar brought in all his people and they went to work on 5150. Even then it still took them months to finish that album.

It was never about Van Halen to Hagar. It was always about him - how he can maximize his earnings. And he cashed in for ten years.

The 2004 reunion was no different. Hagar saw $$$ once again and it didn't matter how fucked up Eddie was. He went out and did the tour.

[ZahZoo]

Well the glass is either half empty or half full. I just look at it this way.

There's one other option that most folks overlook... it's far better than the traditional, limited perspective... with infinite opportunities. The glass is refillable!!

Next round is on me!!

[Terry]

Who cares about Van Halen at this point. The excitement went out the window a long time ago. Also if Michael Anthony does something with Van Halen after they way they screwed him I will have zero respect for him. Because he hangs with Sammy I almost have no respect for him already. Oh well we have been heard all this shit as long as the internet has existed. Roth finally did something with them and I would say what you saw last time was about as good as VH can do these days. Ed isn't going to whip out something new and magical like Mean Street at his age. The last VH album was all old songs reworked.

I'd say that's about right in terms of the whole last 12 years of being reunited with Roth, in that the net result was about as good as could have been expected considering the amount of years wasted, advancing age and self-abuse.

Mike Anthony...obviously, I don't know the guy, have no idea how or what he thinks. I can get why he enjoys Hagar's company over that of the Van Halens. I seem to recall Roth once saying that Anthony allowed himself to be put under the thumb of the Van Halens because Roth refused to do so. In that sense, it's kind of hard for me to feel too sorry for Anthony being chucked out of the band in the end, because Anthony allowed himself to be treated as little more than a salaried employee by the Van Halens going as far back as the early 1980s.

[Terry]

Hagar is an opportunist.

Always was.

In 1985 he walked into a band that had built an incredible career and he saw $$$$. But they had no producer, manager, tour and production crew and a singer.

They dumped everyone.

Hagar brought in all his people and they went to work on 5150. Even then it still took them months to finish that album.

It was never about Van Halen to Hagar. It was always about him - how he can maximize his earnings. And he cashed in for ten years.

The 2004 reunion was no different. Hagar saw $$$ once again and it didn't matter how fucked up Eddie was. He went out and did the tour.

You notice the difference between 2004 and 2007, where Eddie went and cleaned up before the 2007 tour started.

As to if Ed going to rehab was due to Roth's insistence, or was something promoters told Azoff needed to happen because of the 2004 mess, or was something Azoff insisted to pre-empt promoter concerns, who the fuck knows?