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  • Seshmeister
    ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

    • Oct 2003
    • 35149

    COS 1984 Article

    While the album's highs go higher than you might recall, its lows seem lower now, too.




    Van Halen’s 1984 Is Better (And Worse) Than You Remember


    While the record's highs go higher than you might recall, its lows seem lower now, too
    BY TYLER CLARKON FEBRUARY 05, 2019, 5:00AM




    If you want a succinct look at the power of Van Halen in 1984, you could do worse than the commercial for the band’s Lost Weekend promotion with MTV. Over the course of 90 seconds, the ad paints an alluring picture: here’s David Lee Roth, flanked by women and presiding over a table strewn with whisky bottles and beer cans, promising fans an endurance-testing two-day blackout (potentially, if the ad’s B-movie visuals are to be believed, including ritual animal sacrifice, boxes of uranium, and a guest appearance by the actual Igor) that sounds less like a concert experience and more like a lightly supervised kidnapping.

    “Destination unknown!” he says. “You’ll have no idea where you are, you’ll have no idea where you’re going, and probably no memory of it after you go!”
    The reality was more mundane, but no less wanton. As they recounted to Van Halen fan magazine The Inside in 1995, winner Kurt Jefferis and his friend Tom Winnick spent two days in April living what the magazine called “the American boyhood dream, 1984-style” — specifically, binge drinking bottomless beers and whiskeys, trashing Cobo Hall’s green room with a band-led food fight, and mingling with “dozens of dolled-up groupies [prancing] around [and] looking for action.”

    In the recollections of that wild weekend, one quote from Winnick stands out. “Eddie’s like a little kid,” Winnick said, “hugging everybody. He came up and gave me a kiss!”



    That sense of guileless teenage id had served the band well throughout their careers to that point, infusing party-rock classics from “Runnin’ with the Devil” to “Everybody Wants Some!!” with their irresistible, uninhibited energy. However, it finally spilled fully, fatefully into the mainstream on the band’s sixth record.

    Made by four bona fide Lost Boys, 1984 has a bit of Peter Pan in it; it’s an album that never grows up, even as it turns 35 this year. As a musical artifact, the album’s significance (for both Van Halen as a band and for American popular music in general) is unquestionable; as our own Greg Prato recounted in his recent retrospective, the record almost single-handedly brought synthesizers across the bridge from new wave into hard rock and remains the zenith of the band’s commercial viability (though the band’s subsequent “Van Hagar” records all charted higher, none sold as many copies or birthed as many hits).

    That power rests within one of the strongest sequencing combos in all of ’80s rock, one that sounds even better with age; taken together, the horizon-spanning synths of “Jump” and the shout-along stomp of “Panama” move the band forward into uncharted territory while quickly reassuring fans that the driving rock wizardry is still along for the ride. The same can be said of the guitar work of Eddie Van Halen, who Rolling Stone’s J.D. Considine praised in his review for “[managing] to expand his repertoire of hot licks, growls, screams, and seemingly impossible runs to wilder frontiers than you could have imagined.”



    While the record’s highs go higher than you might remember, its lows seem lower now, too. Much of that has to do with our own current moment. As a cultural artifact, the back half of the record (and the lost weekend-filled tour that accompanied it) also embodies and emboldens the kind of consequence-free debauchery and ambient, unavoidable sexism that we’ve spent the last two years giving its long-overdue reckoning. It’s not just “Hot for Teacher” (though, at the risk of sounding like Tipper Gore, the accompanying video aged very poorly); “Drop Dead Legs” is a literal list of women’s body parts, “I’ll Wait” finds David Lee Roth ogling and obsessing over a pretty lady in a magazine, and “Girl Gone Bad” helped inspire this summation from Chuck Klosterman: “Do not discount Van Halen as a band who could only write about women who became porn stars; as evidenced here, they were equally proficient at writing about women who became prostitutes.”

    This certainly isn’t a new observation (Robert Christgau rightly identified the Side B’s formula as “consolation for their loyal fans — a little sexism, a lot of pyrotechnics, and a standard HM bass attack” in his Consumer Guide review), but it’s one that colors the record (and ones by Van Halen’s hard rock and metal brethren) more on this milestone than on the previous. Heard with fresh ears, the rock is still untouchable (“Hot for Teacher” in particular would sound as good if not better as an instrumental), but the lyrics don’t hold up quite as easily.

    Is it possible to hold space in your heart for a record like 1984’s stunning singles while simultaneously raising a critical eyebrow at its steak-headed sexuality? In some cases, probably not. In others, if you ask critic Fiona Sturges, the answer is unreservedly yes. In her essay from the 2017 collection Under My Thumb: Songs That Hate Women and the Women Who Love Them, Sturges wrestles with the dissonance between her own feminism and the casual misogyny of her own favorite band, the like-minded AC/DC. Faced with a burgeoning Bon Scott fan of a daughter, Sturges reveals her philosophy for mitigating the conflict between personal beliefs and popular entertainment:

    “I’ve made a point of offering my child an alternative narrative — one in which women can be proud of their bodies, exist apart from the male gaze and not just reject but hoot with laughter at the moronic archetypes presented in advertising, the media, film, TV and music. It’s worth noting that none of this — at least so far — has come at the expense of her enjoyment. She will roll her eyes at the teeny-weeny waists and bulging eyes of Disney heroines, but will still happily watch the movies.”



    Like any good 35th birthday, 1984’s latest anniversary arrived with a healthy amount of ambivalence. For the band, the record was as much of an end as it was a beginning. Van Halen’s original and best iteration would last just 14 more months; in the years since, those Lost Boys either grew up (Alex Van Halen, who went sober in 1987) or leaned even harder into their own extended adolescence (David Lee Roth, last seen hawking a skincare product to keep tattoos from fading). In their wake, they left six records made at the zenith of rock and roll hedonism, music designed for uncomplicated good times that, inevitably, became complicated itself.

    Lost weekends end. The American boyhood dream changes. Someone has to clean up all those food fights. We’ll always have the music to remember them by, the way things were then. What we do with it now? That’s your call.

    Buy: You can pick up copies of 1984 along with Van Halen’s other releases at Reverb LP. Click here for more.
  • Seshmeister
    ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

    • Oct 2003
    • 35149

    #2
    Originally posted by Seshmeister
    “Drop Dead Legs” is a literal list of women’s body parts, “I’ll Wait” finds David Lee Roth ogling and obsessing over a pretty lady in a magazine, and “Girl Gone Bad” helped inspire this summation from Chuck Klosterman: “Do not discount Van Halen as a band who could only write about women who became porn stars; as evidenced here, they were equally proficient at writing about women who became prostitutes.”

    Comment

    • Vinnie Velvet
      Full Member Status

      • Feb 2004
      • 4577

      #3
      I don't think the HFT video has aged poorly.

      It perfectly represents the fantasies of every young boy (those who were not confused) who's female school teacher was very nice to look at.

      VH just laid it out right in front of you and it still works and is funny.
      =V V=
      ole No.1 The finest
      EAT US AND SMILE

      Comment

      • Terry
        TOASTMASTER GENERAL
        • Jan 2004
        • 11957

        #4
        The album has aged just fine from where I sit, in that pretty much the tunes I REALLY liked on it back then (Drop Dead Legs, Girl Gone Bad, House of Pain, Hot For Teacher) are still my favorites from the album. The tunes I was sort of lukewarm on then (Top Jimmy, Panama) I'm still sort of lukewarm on. The tunes I wasn't crazy about at all back then (Jump, I'll Wait), I haven't gotten any fonder of since.

        I mean, to be sure, Roth was approaching women in his lyrics back then in a manner that people today would say was misogynist or demeaning to women or sexist or whatever. And...so? It was what it was.
        Scramby eggs and bacon.

        Comment

        • private parts
          Sniper
          • Jan 2007
          • 925

          #5
          That guy should choke on his tofu and kale salad. "The American boyhood dream changes". WTF!!!
          What!? Did we raise a generation of boys who don't lust over beautiful women? BullShite I say!

          Maybe they've just figured out how to do it stealthy. Let's not forget we're all here because of a sex act. It's what we do.
          Sure cat-calling and all is pretty lame, but if you're not doing it, your thinking it. And that is what DLR was trying to get across.
          He would say what your thinking.
          sigpic" You ever notice when I scream I sound like Mr. Bill on acid" DLR

          Comment

          • ZahZoo
            ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

            • Jan 2004
            • 8961

            #6
            Originally posted by Vinnie Velvet
            I don't think the HFT video has aged poorly.

            It perfectly represents the fantasies of every young boy (those who were not confused) who's female school teacher was very nice to look at.

            VH just laid it out right in front of you and it still works and is funny.
            That video works fine for a teenage fantasy vision relevant to the early 80's culture... Not so, at all today...

            Go parade that video around now and you'll draw the angst of not only the #metoo crowd, gender neutral fanatics and the folks hell bent on locking up women who sexually prey on innocent school boys...

            I'd say file that cultural gem in the same box as black-face, sexual predators, KKK and Native American Halloween costumes... best keep those thoughts and imagery in your head if you think they've aged well and should be considered culturally... OK...
            "If you want to be a monk... you gotta cook a lot of rice...”

            Comment

            • Seshmeister
              ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

              • Oct 2003
              • 35149

              #7
              Black-face, sexual predators, KKK and Native American Halloween costumes aren't in the same box. That's like keeping murder and a parking ticket in the same box.

              I still see lots of semi naked girls in music videos, I guess the difference is they are usually the singer.

              Comment

              • Vinnie Velvet
                Full Member Status

                • Feb 2004
                • 4577

                #8
                Originally posted by ZahZoo
                That video works fine for a teenage fantasy vision relevant to the early 80's culture... Not so, at all today...

                Go parade that video around now and you'll draw the angst of not only the #metoo crowd, gender neutral fanatics and the folks hell bent on locking up women who sexually prey on innocent school boys...

                I'd say file that cultural gem in the same box as black-face, sexual predators, KKK and Native American Halloween costumes... best keep those thoughts and imagery in your head if you think they've aged well and should be considered culturally... OK...
                That's the problem with today's culture. Things like comedy (which is what the HFT video is) especially suffers because of it.
                =V V=
                ole No.1 The finest
                EAT US AND SMILE

                Comment

                • Vinnie Velvet
                  Full Member Status

                  • Feb 2004
                  • 4577

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Terry
                  The album has aged just fine from where I sit, in that pretty much the tunes I REALLY liked on it back then (Drop Dead Legs, Girl Gone Bad, House of Pain, Hot For Teacher) are still my favorites from the album. The tunes I was sort of lukewarm on then (Top Jimmy, Panama) I'm still sort of lukewarm on. The tunes I wasn't crazy about at all back then (Jump, I'll Wait), I haven't gotten any fonder of since.

                  I mean, to be sure, Roth was approaching women in his lyrics back then in a manner that people today would say was misogynist or demeaning to women or sexist or whatever. And...so? It was what it was.
                  I'd say Dave was a lot less sexist than his replacement.
                  =V V=
                  ole No.1 The finest
                  EAT US AND SMILE

                  Comment

                  • Nickdfresh
                    SUPER MODERATOR

                    • Oct 2004
                    • 49125

                    #10
                    This fucking guy writing. I mean, is there somethings that are a bit dated as far as references to women? yeah. But thank God we now have only feminist anthems like "Blurred Lines" and about 50% of hip hop! FFS sake, STFU! How fucking dated can "Hot for Teacher" be when you have young female teachers regularly having sex with sometimes very young students?

                    I don't recall any lyrics where Dave referred to women as "bitches" or anything like that...
                    Last edited by Nickdfresh; 02-06-2019, 11:20 AM.

                    Comment

                    • FORD
                      ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

                      • Jan 2004
                      • 58755

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Vinnie Velvet
                      I'd say Dave was a lot less sexist than his replacement.
                      No shit! The first song on 5150 (Good Enough) literally describes a woman like a piece of meat. But Sammy was supposed to be the "sensitive" one
                      Eat Us And Smile

                      Cenk For America 2024!!

                      Justice Democrats


                      "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

                      Comment

                      • Nickdfresh
                        SUPER MODERATOR

                        • Oct 2004
                        • 49125

                        #12
                        Originally posted by FORD
                        No shit! The first song on 5150 (Good Enough) literally describes a woman like a piece of meat. But Sammy was supposed to be the "sensitive" one
                        Or when Hagar claimed that he had sex with groupies under the stage during Ed's guitar solos during the Monsters of Rock, of course this only came out after the Def Leppard VH1 episode where they said the same thing during Elliot's call and response thing during the Hysteria tour...
                        Last edited by Nickdfresh; 02-06-2019, 04:26 PM.

                        Comment

                        • Vinnie Velvet
                          Full Member Status

                          • Feb 2004
                          • 4577

                          #13
                          Originally posted by FORD
                          No shit! The first song on 5150 (Good Enough) literally describes a woman like a piece of meat. But Sammy was supposed to be the "sensitive" one
                          Exactly.

                          How about Black and Blue? I remember the chorus unfortunately - let's do it till were Black and Blue.

                          Really Sam?? SMH

                          At least Dave was intelligent and clever with his approach to lyrics and what he talked about.
                          =V V=
                          ole No.1 The finest
                          EAT US AND SMILE

                          Comment

                          • Terry
                            TOASTMASTER GENERAL
                            • Jan 2004
                            • 11957

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Vinnie Velvet
                            I'd say Dave was a lot less sexist than his replacement.
                            By comparison, that may well be true...although to be certain I'd have to actually read the bulk of Hagar's lyrics for those Van Halen songs, and I...just...really would rather not (it's bad enough that I remember more of said lyrics than I already want to).

                            I mean, I never found Roth's lyrics in Van Halen to be particularly sexist...certainly not in comparison to, say, Ted Nugent. Or Gene Simmons. Not in terms of demeaning women or putting them down.

                            It's just the select hypersensitivity of the culture today, where one can take one element out of context and use that to paint a broad, inaccurate picture. I mean, the Hot For Teacher video certainly isn't subtle.

                            I don't even think Hagar lyrically re: Van Halen was necessarily sexist in a malicious way, rather he was just meatheadedly trying to write Rothesque lyrics he thought fans of CVH would like. That whole Good Enough song, down to the cheesy post-guitar solo rap (a la attempts at shades of Everybody Wants Some) was just Hagar trying to cop a Roth. Just a somewhat cynical attempt to convey what he thought male teenaged fans of the band expected from a Van Halen record. That Hagar got this wrong is in no way surprising.

                            I mean, I assume it was cynical: if it was sincere on Hagar's part that just makes it even lamer.
                            Scramby eggs and bacon.

                            Comment

                            • Seshmeister
                              ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

                              • Oct 2003
                              • 35149

                              #15
                              I think age comes into it too and I thought it at the time.

                              When Hagar was writing lyrics like that on 5150 he was 39 which seemed like your old man cat calling your fellow students - creepy.

                              By the time Roth was that age he was writing the YFLM album not Everybody Wants Some.

                              Comment

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