Eruption in the Canyon

[Terry]

It's hard to discern what the truth is regarding which Van Halen stuff Mike played on and which stuff he didn't in terms of the recordings. I've read all sorts of scenarios, including one that states the only album Mike played bass on was the first. One of the more dissembled rumors was that Ed re-recorded a lot of Anthony's bass parts during the Fair Warning sessions late at night when he was laying down the guitar overdubs and solos.

But I don't really take much of what Eddie Van Halen says at face value, because he has misrepresented more than a few things in interviews, even as far back as the early 1980s when he claimed that when the band were recording the first album he asked Templeman if he could just play live because he didn't know how to overdub, then when you listen to the Simmons demos recorded prior to the WB first album you hear overdubs all over the recordings. Or Ed's claims that Eric Clapton was his primary influence in terms of how he developed his style, then you listen to all those pre-Van Halen 1 album club gigs and hear the band playing Rainbow and Led Zeppelin songs (I hear a lot more Blackmore and Page in Ed's playing than I ever did Clapton).

[Terry]

I have to say I'm kind of indifferent about Mike losing his writing royalties since I don't think he wrote any of it.

A more interesting argument is that my understanding of writing royalties(and I could be wrong) is that it is split 3 ways between music, vocal melody and lyrics meaning that Dave should have had 2/3rds an Ed could decide whether to split his third with his brother or not....

From everything I've read, Michael Anthony allowed his percentage to be whittled down, which brings to mind something Roth said in the late 1990s following the 1996 debacle along the lines of Mike Anthony willingly allowed himself to be firmly put under the Van Halen brothers thumb while [Roth] flat-out refused to allow himself to be placed in that position.

[Terry]

It's sad to revisit this era... which this book is capitalizing on. 2002 saw Ed's cancer battle, then divorce and crash... by 2004 he was a pathetic mess... I don't put much credible stock in any revised Van Halen history from this time.

That whole 2000 to early 2007 period was just as you said...sad. Sad to see. Obviously, I wouldn't wish cancer on anybody, nor would I make a 'whatever' comment about a longtime smoker getting it (as in 'whatever, so and so smoked cigarettes and now has cancer, thus fuck him because he deserves what he got'). But as the early 2000s started unwinding, one looked at Ed's general appearance and fucked-up demeanor and - cancer to one side - couldn't help but think Ed was doing all of this to himself in terms of the booze and the (assumed) drug use, neither of which a reasonable person would conclude would be helpful if Ed already had issues with cancer.

Ed's lifestyle was fucking him up to the point where he couldn't even play the older Van Halen material well, never mind any hopes of some cool new tunes being forthcoming. Even that first reunion tour with Roth, Ed was struggling throughout the tour with the basic mechanics of playing the set in terms of his technique and execution. As a fan, it was nice to see Ed pull himself together by the time ADKOT rolled around and remaster that old CVH stuff, but also wistful in a way that Ed had fucked himself up so bad that it took a concerted effort for him to straighten himself up to the point where he was able to decently reproduce old licks live again.

[Jérôme Frenchise]

It's hard to discern what the truth is regarding which Van Halen stuff Mike played on and which stuff he didn't in terms of the recordings. I've read all sorts of scenarios, including one that states the only album Mike played bass on was the first. One of the more dissembled rumors was that Ed re-recorded a lot of Anthony's bass parts during the Fair Warning sessions late at night when he was laying down the guitar overdubs and solos.

But I don't really take much of what Eddie Van Halen says at face value, because he has misrepresented more than a few things in interviews, even as far back as the early 1980s when he claimed that when the band were recording the first album he asked Templeman if he could just play live because he didn't know how to overdub, then when you listen to the Simmons demos recorded prior to the WB first album you hear overdubs all over the recordings. Or Ed's claims that Eric Clapton was his primary influence in terms of how he developed his style, then you listen to all those pre-Van Halen 1 album club gigs and hear the band playing Rainbow and Led Zeppelin songs (I hear a lot more Blackmore and Page in Ed's playing than I ever did Clapton).

That's right. And the Scorpions' Uli Roth as well IMO.

[Nickdfresh]

From everything I've read, Michael Anthony allowed his percentage to be whittled down, which brings to mind something Roth said in the late 1990s following the 1996 debacle along the lines of Mike Anthony willingly allowed himself to be firmly put under the Van Halen brothers thumb while [Roth] flat-out refused to allow himself to be placed in that position.

But as Monk made clear in his book, Roth was at least as much of a prick to Mike than the sis'. I recall his issue being the mentioned here, why was Alex getting a cut of Roth's percentages then?

[DONNIEP]

I’m kinda on the fence about ordering this book. Do I really need to see a buncha pictures of Ed being all fucked up but playing great in the studio? I think we all saw that in that stupid porno song video from the same time. I guess if I was around Wolfie’s age it might be cool to see him practicing in the studio but I’m not and I still maintain he shouldn’t have been in the band, regardless of Mikey’s departure. And as far as Mike playing on the records - the author wasn’t there for them and all he has to go by is Ed’s version. And Ed hates everybody but himself, and you can see that from him telling his brother he made him, or however he put it when he supposedly jumped on Al’s Porsche. That band, and Ed, would have been nothing without both Roth and Sam taking Ed’s little snippets of music and crafting songs out of them. And that’s not knocking Ed or his contribution - it’s just the truth.

Part of me wants to buy the book, just for the pictures. And part of me doesn’t want it because I don’t wanna go back down that rabbit hole of Ed’s complete departure from reality. Mike and Sam “phoned it in”? Kinda hard to blame them when Ed was a snaggle toothed hobo drunk painting guitars in his back yard wearing boots he bought off a hobo in an alley after scoring some blow.

It would be cool if this guy just had some rehearsal footage of Dave rejoining the band. I’d pay for that. But pictures and stories of Ed being trashed and going completely off the rails? I don’t know, I don’t think so. I kinda miss the old days, before the internet. Back when your heroes were Rock Stars and you didn’t know just how fucked up, and frankly, just how much they were just like us.

[Terry]

That's right. And the Scorpions' Uli Roth as well IMO.

Yep, him, too.

[Terry]

But as Monk made clear in his book, Roth was at least as much of a prick to Mike than the sis'. I recall his issue being the mentioned here, why was Alex getting a cut of Roth's percentages then?

True enough.

[Terry]

I've always surmised that a fair amount of the material far as the instrumental end went with CVH sprung from Ed and Al jamming - and Ed feeding off the interplay between the guitar and drums - whereas it always felt that Mike Anthony was by and large (but not always) just following along with what Ed was doing. At least that is to say it has always struck me as such when listening to the records. That may or may not reflect the reality of how some of the songs were created.

[Baby's On Fire]

True enough.

The greedy little manager is clearly a woman scorned. If you read his book, did you notice that several times he states "I never stole any money" (paraphrase), and yet he never said anything about being accused by anyone of anything illicit.

Al is a bona fide prick, but maybe there is a reason he took the manager to the accountant for an interrogation, soon after which he was fired.

I wasn't there, and you weren't there. Don't take his word at face value.

He is a woman scorned.

Furthermore, in Sammy's book, he states that the brothers stripped MA of his royalties. Well if MA was stripped of royalties in 1984, how did he get stripped again after Ed Leffler died?

Inconsistencies all around.

[Baby's On Fire]

I've always surmised that a fair amount of the material far as the instrumental end went with CVH sprung from Ed and Al jamming - and Ed feeding off the interplay between the guitar and drums - whereas it always felt that Mike Anthony was by and large (but not always) just following along with what Ed was doing. At least that is to say it has always struck me as such when listening to the records. That may or may not reflect the reality of how some of the songs were created.

Regarding writing credits:

Do the drum parts compose themselves? No, it was Alex.

And what about the rehearsal efforts? The songs don't compose themselves just on paper and then magically appear on tape.

Al and Mike obviously put in huge amounts of time and rehearsal for the songs to materialize. So why wouldn't they get writing credits?

And it's probable they also contributed ideas and bits and pieces. Listen to MA on the bass. I doubt EVH wrote every note. MA was clearly throwing in his own chops here and there.

If anything, DLR got short changed. He was the primary composer.

[Nitro Express]

I’m kinda on the fence about ordering this book. Do I really need to see a buncha pictures of Ed being all fucked up but playing great in the studio? I think we all saw that in that stupid porno song video from the same time. I guess if I was around Wolfie’s age it might be cool to see him practicing in the studio but I’m not and I still maintain he shouldn’t have been in the band, regardless of Mikey’s departure. And as far as Mike playing on the records - the author wasn’t there for them and all he has to go by is Ed’s version. And Ed hates everybody but himself, and you can see that from him telling his brother he made him, or however he put it when he supposedly jumped on Al’s Porsche. That band, and Ed, would have been nothing without both Roth and Sam taking Ed’s little snippets of music and crafting songs out of them. And that’s not knocking Ed or his contribution - it’s just the truth.

Part of me wants to buy the book, just for the pictures. And part of me doesn’t want it because I don’t wanna go back down that rabbit hole of Ed’s complete departure from reality. Mike and Sam “phoned it in”? Kinda hard to blame them when Ed was a snaggle toothed hobo drunk painting guitars in his back yard wearing boots he bought off a hobo in an alley after scoring some blow.

It would be cool if this guy just had some rehearsal footage of Dave rejoining the band. I’d pay for that. But pictures and stories of Ed being trashed and going completely off the rails? I don’t know, I don’t think so. I kinda miss the old days, before the internet. Back when your heroes were Rock Stars and you didn’t know just how fucked up, and frankly, just how much they were just like us.

David Bertinelli is currently going through his stash of VH photos and is going to come out with a book. He asked Ed if it was ok with him to put a VH photo book out and Ed said go for it. Dave is a very good photographer and lived in Park City, Utah when I lived there and had a photography studio there. He has some great live shots of VH that never have been seen by the public. He's trying to find the right publisher.

[Nitro Express]

I totally understand why Ed wouldn't want any of that footage released... what a mess.

We all got a good view of the mess when it went on tour. A monster created from cheap red wine and cocaine cut with methemphetamine and other junk. I’m sure rehab was a bitch but I saw Ed play on the last tour with Dave and he played great and his new dental implants gave him a big bright smile.

[ZahZoo]

From everything I've read, Michael Anthony allowed his percentage to be whittled down, which brings to mind something Roth said in the late 1990s following the 1996 debacle along the lines of Mike Anthony willingly allowed himself to be firmly put under the Van Halen brothers thumb while [Roth] flat-out refused to allow himself to be placed in that position.

Roth did sue Van Halen in 2002 based on the restructuring of royalties they negotiated in 1996 with Warner Bros... None of the details of that restructure ever became public though, because Roth dropped the suit without cause sometime later. But at the time, Mike was still very much part of the Van Halen camp and I recall Dave complaining about the Bassplayer™ getting more for songs Dave wrote...

[Nitro Express]

You can’t even fire an Uzi in a residential area within city limits in Wyoming. I guess if you are Ed Van Halen you can get away with it in Los Angeles. Phil Spector and Crazy Eddie seem to have a lot in common.